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Manadhil oru paattu - Song of the moment - Vol 1

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Post  Drunkenmunk Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:05 am

Actually Chokkan saar reply paathu dhaan naan inga vandhu kEttEn avar Deva son'aa nu and that kinda started a kutty take diversion discussion here. KshamikkaNum.
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Post  app_engine Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:07 am

Drunkenmunk wrote:Actually Chokkan saar reply paathu dhaan naan inga vandhu kEttEn avar Deva son'aa nu and that kinda started a kutty take diversion discussion here. KshamikkaNum.
ada, chummA light-hearted humor sir Smile

No worries Smile

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Post  kiru Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:04 am

crimson king wrote: when I listen to say Innum Konjum Neram from Maryan is the melody doesn't excite me at all.  I don't feel challenged and it is also not so poignant 
slow != melody // sorry .. no patience for these .. meant for some little girls in the house, I guess

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Post  Raaga_Suresh Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:00 pm

Shank,

A warm welcome to you and my apologies for not telling you earlier about this forum. Now that you are here, we are all happy given the sort of value you bring to the discussions.

I know how it is about personal tastes. Very recently @complicatuer had a small poll on twitter to check if people liked 'bus dhaan ptc' or 'konjam sangeetham' more from 'Veetla Visheshanga'. Turned out that more votes were for 'bus dhaan'. This was the same song that our irir123 took apart in the other forum Smile (I hope he doesn't see this post Smile )

Let me confess that both the songs mentioned by you I haven't heard. Now to go hear them.

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Post  crimson king Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:17 pm

kiru wrote:
crimson king wrote: when I listen to say Innum Konjum Neram from Maryan is the melody doesn't excite me at all.  I don't feel challenged and it is also not so poignant 
slow != melody // sorry .. no patience for these .. meant for some little girls in the house, I guess
lol, that might well be the thinking behind such songs, who knows.

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Post  Usha Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:58 pm

Parkaradhum   - Alai Osai.


enna oru sandham.. enna oru tempo.....  MUdugu  - tamizh kavidhai vagaiyil oru vagai... thaduki thaduki varum
lyric style......   chittu kuruvi  vekka paduthu.. indha style dhan.


Interludes..  ella instruments um  indha style il irukum...  angae irukar  Raja.....   love  a lot..............


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFskFYbNK5w&feature=c4-overview&list=UUkPjh6R5WMnfRS9Ohw8TEAg

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Post  crimson king Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:50 pm

When I first heard Sayndhu 2nd interlude, I thought of Yaani.   

But why would IR need Yaani when he composed this in 1987 (specifically the portion from 1:50 to 1:56)


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Post  fring151 Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:58 am



#Raja #Kalyani #Mishra Chapu 

The flute-guitar call and response in the 1st interlude is pretty tight, not as easy to play as it sounds.

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Post  Usha Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:23 pm

kaatrai konjam nirka sonnen   NEPV

paatu vandha pudhidhilum Head phone il kaeten..........  piragu headphone il kaetkavilali........  normal aga kaeten.....

After Megha..

Indru.. head phone il kaeten. Kaatrai konjam nirka sonnen..............  

unmaiyil acharyam............ kaeta nimidathil..............

starring humming.. nana nana naga nana ---  3 frequency il........ 2 ears and the head..............idhil....  transfer from one ear to another ear via head............. from right to left. and then left to right. indha nerathil.. one instrument starts....
some seconds...  some more instruments.......... now the singer sings. kaatrai  konjam..........

indha portion...... indha experience....... really amazing................... namaku oru nyanam varanam. IR paatai head
phone il kaetka.  kaetka kaetka.. sound ellam nam kaadhil........ Thats a Real Beauty.......

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Post  Usha Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:00 pm

Paatu thalaivan  -  very good audio quality........  Guitar works.  romba nalla kaekaradhu indha video vil........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGDCAGzAbk0

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Post  fring151 Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:46 am

Prasanna had once included this song in his favourite 25 or 30 IR songs. Can justifiably be called a cult-classic - definitely one which deserves to be more popular.



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Post  V_S Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:28 am

Blown away by this film songs. Every one of them. எப்படித்தான் இப்படி எல்லாம் போட்டு வெச்சிருக்காரோ? After the initial short pallavi, that majestic bass guitar and violins taking on each other forming a counterpoint. OMG! After that flute in harmony with bells leading the pallavi again with bass guitar intact providing another counter melody to the lead melody. Whatay a pallavi/anu-pallavi! Improvisations by Chitra during repeat pallavi AhA! The way Maestro uses multiple instruments in harmony is inimitable. In first interlude he harmonizes flute with lead guitar(?), just Wow! And bass guitar hurries to provide the continuity. Lovely! Violins (in phases) with bass guitar and acoustic drums and finishing with santoor. An interlude takes this much effort and creativity. We will never know what comes next, Maestro always surprises us with his amazing arrangements and even after so many parts being played, we can feel the continuity from one part to another. Till the last santhoor is in place (which plays for 5 seconds), we will not have an iota of thought that how is he going to start the charanam.

The way he punctuates every line of charanam with guitar is fabulous. Here comes the killer. மண் மூடி போனாலும் வெவேறு ஆனாலும் என் ஜீவன் என்னாளும் உன்னோடுதான். Nobody constructs such a big line nowadays. Chitra sings without taking a breath. I love that sweet sound of guitar with bell sounds after azhaiththEnE. காதுகளுக்கு அவ்வளவு இதம்! Wonderful ornamentation!

He completely changes the path during second interlude with flute and keyboard alternate each other with bass guitar. Just when tabla finished playing in charanam and the interlude takes over, the next note you hear is the guitar. There is no gap between tabla and guitar. Seamless transition! Till now there is no clue how is he even going to start the second charnam. It is racing towards point boundary, but Maestro does not allow to cross (as he knows he can never get back in time, this is the biggest fault with other music directors where they don't have the clue where are they going and how it is going to massacre the rest of the song) and calls them back with flurry of violins. He also gives a clue how he is going to start the charanam with violins stopping for a second for keyboard to give the lead. When we expect he is going start here, he again goes back and plays the same melody again with violins followed by keyboard. We even expect here he would start as he has already landed on a note where Chitra can sing. He again teases us. He still enjoys playing in an extended mode with flute (with backing violins) and punches a guitar chord before giving it to Chitra. Heaven! This is one terrific interlude. We already saw a journey in this interlude. What a ride!

I heard someone saying in twitter that even Maestro uses western instruments why fans complain when others uses them. It is not about using western instruments, it is about how to tame them to indian film context and how to drive them to narrate a story and how to make them your own. Even when he uses keyboard, guitar, drums, he does not use them alone. He knows how to make them sound indigenous to the film and to our hearts. That's the reason he uses as bass guitar (at the back) when violins complement in the foreground. Same way he uses flute in the foreground with keyboard (with bell sounds) in the background, so that the combined sound sounds very new and indigenous. Not a single note/sound of alien instruments will sound alien even in the interludes. Maestro does not even allow us to think that they are alien, as he frequently changes their usage and paths that everything is tightly integrated as a composition.

On top of it the main melody. You can hear this as a pure indian classical melody. Once he establishes this as the base he knows any instrument he selects should not spoil the melody and should not stick out. He rightly picks and plays the instruments in right proportions that we don't hear it separately as a guitar or keyboard (unless we give an additional ear). All we hear is the combined sound. This is surely lacking when others uses it. We hear them separately and does not jell well to the melody or to the subsequent arrangements (if any). That's why Maestro is a genius and no one can match him in this area on how to present the melody and how to present the orchestration equally without disturbing the listeners from their enjoyment.

Then comes the most important part of this song. The mood. When I hear this song, I get reminded of innum ennai enna seiyaa pOgiraai anbE anbE. I believe it is because of the same raagam (Gambira Naattai?). Please correct me if I am wrong. He brings a different mood in the same raagam. While he presents the former an erotic (male singing) , this one as positive song from a mother to her child (female singing). As the name suggests, since this raagam has gambhiram in it, Maestro proves the authority of the raagam accordingly whoever is singing it (male or female).

All this form a song, not just notes or instruments or singer alone. It is much more than that. This composition is an example of such a perfect combination. That's why we call it as a composition and not just another melody.

Better audio quality: http://www.raaga.com/play/?id=264606

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Post  app_engine Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:06 pm

V_Sji wrote:
It is not about using western instruments, it is about how to tame them to indian film context and how to drive them to narrate a story and how to make them your own.
Well said!

IR is unparallelled in that aspect!

Actually, he is unmatched the other way around too (making Indian instruments play in a "westernised" way). He is a true gnAni in that sense!

Nicely written post, as usual, V_Sji!

the clap

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Post  crimson king Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:32 pm

Tripping over and over on Niram Pirithu Parthen.  Don't know why this song is not as popular as say Kadhal Needhana from the same movie.  I don't like the abrupt changes in the interludes (though I am guessing there was some situational requirement for that?) but the tune, the chords are just beautiful.   I am in a jazz mood these days and it goes well right after Kalvane.  


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Post  crimson king Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:43 pm

V_S wrote:
I heard someone saying in twitter that even Maestro uses western instruments why fans complain when others uses them. It is not about using western instruments, it is about how to tame them to indian film context and how to drive them to narrate a story and how to make them your own. Even when he uses keyboard, guitar, drums, he does not use them alone. He knows how to make them sound indigenous to the film and to our hearts. That's the reason he uses as bass guitar (at the back) when violins complement in the foreground. Same way he uses flute in the foreground with keyboard (with bell sounds) in the background, so that the combined sound sounds very new and indigenous. Not a single note/sound of alien instruments will sound alien even in the interludes. Maestro does not even allow us to think that they are alien, as he frequently changes their usage and paths that everything is tightly integrated as a composition.

On top of it the main melody. You can hear this as a pure indian classical melody. Once he establishes this as the base he knows any instrument he selects should not spoil the melody and should not stick out. He rightly picks and plays the instruments in right proportions that we don't hear it separately as a guitar or keyboard (unless we give an additional ear). All we hear is the combined sound. This is surely lacking when others uses it. We hear them separately and does not jell well to the melody or to the subsequent arrangements (if any). That's why Maestro is a genius and no one can match him in this area on how to present the melody and how to present the orchestration equally without disturbing the listeners from their enjoyment.



Then comes the most important part of this song. The mood. When I hear this song, I get reminded of innum ennai enna seiyaa pOgiraai anbE anbE. I believe it is because of the same raagam (Gambira Naattai?). Please correct me if I am wrong. He brings a different mood in the same raagam. While he presents the former an erotic (male singing) , this one as positive song from a mother to her child (female singing). As the name suggests, since this raagam has gambhiram in it, Maestro proves the authority of the raagam accordingly whoever is singing it (male or female).

All this form a song, not just notes or instruments or singer alone. It is much more than that. This composition is an example of such a perfect combination. That's why we call it as a composition and not just another melody.

Better audio quality: http://www.raaga.com/play/?id=264606
Exactly, well said.   What IR does is true fusion, not confusion.   By the way I wonder if the raagam is Mayamalawagowlai.  The notes seemed to be similar to Poova Eduthu Oru/Anthi Varum Neram, which are listed under Mayamalawagowlai.   Suresh, DM, pl help.

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Post  Drunkenmunk Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:16 pm

Yes. Mayamalawagowlai only. The first interlude briefly sounded like Naatai to me but charanams are proper Mayamalawagowlai. Evoked Ullukulla Chakkaravarthy for me, another superb Mayamalawagowlai Smile
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Post  baroque Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:41 am

Scintillating guitar and echo flute , humming for yae dhaga yae moga......Janaki's sensuous solo in Shikari!

Ahaa.... streaming violin flow  with 80s ilayaraja's bass guitar for Bala and Janu's duet in the same film in my stereo tonight!
First interlude with sax and flute is awesome in kanavarisu.... Shikari.fabulous
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Post  baroque Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:54 am

thaaraapadham..... Bala's duet with Chithra, beautiful melody!
It's been months I treated my soul with the beauty!
Raja changes to tabla in charanams.
S.P.B sang this composition in his Sanjose concert.
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Post  kiru Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:05 pm

app_engine wrote:
V_Sji wrote:
It is not about using western instruments, it is about how to tame them to indian film context and how to drive them to narrate a story and how to make them your own.
Well said!

IR is unparallelled in that aspect!

Actually, he is unmatched the other way around too (making Indian instruments play in a "westernised" way). He is a true gnAni in that sense!

Nicely written post, as usual, V_Sji!

the clap
V_S said it aptly .. Musically IR is the MOST WESTERNISED MD, others might be more westernized technology (or fashion :-) )   wise ..

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Post  Usha Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:36 pm

baroque,
         Welcome.........

shikari.. kanavariso   - nethiki than kaeten........Very Happy   kandipa headphone la kaekanam....

enna ragam idhu..........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCudKKXd7Rk

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Post  V_S Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:38 pm

Thanks App ji, CK, kiru Smile Thanks CK and DM for raagam correction.

I would call Maestro as only 'mutation' composer as he changes the DNA/genes of western/alien instruments that it sounds so native to our land/situation. For doing this, you need to have not just the mastery, but a genius within you.

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Post  crimson king Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:00 am

^^  I especially love the Indianisation/rural-isation of electric guitar on Chinna Mani Kuyile.   It's simply brilliant, as usual.  The uninitiated might assume that the electric guitar is a Tamil folk instrument, it sounds completely at home in Tamil folk settings.  Even some amazing bass counterpoint in the interlude which ordinarily should have no right to be in a Tamil folk song.

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Post  V_S Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:09 am

Well said! Yes, the examples are plenty, I too assumed the same when I was listening some twenty years ago, but only after listening closely I understood that he is playing the guitar only. Even with counterpoints, as you said, he will never make us feel that we are listening to some WCM concepts as he totally moulds us with his new native sounds/tones emanating from such instruments. He does not need any store-based sounds as he can create a lot on his own using live instruments. Such is our magician! Many don't try to understand these things and directly equate, like he has 'also' used them. The sounds which I heard from Raja, I never heard anything like that elsewhere. The best part is it stays with us forever!

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Post  crimson king Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:52 am

I don't think I could have ever developed a great comfort level with the Western idiom if not for my prior exposure to IR.  When I eventually began listening to it, I was subconsciously familiar with many of the concepts so it was not necessarily such a big leap.   But I had never thought of it as Western v/s Indian when I was listening to IR because it fits seamlessly in his music.

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Post  fring151 Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:37 am

Listening to this bloody awesome forgotten 90s song. Looks like the uploader is our Munk Smile. The scale changes and interludes are astounding. In that 1st interlude, he begins a jazzy romp which within seconds smoothly gives way to Bach-mode, followed by a couple of bars in classical-mode leading all the way to the Charanam starting in what seems to me be a fairly distant Raagam from the pallavi and the interlude.


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