Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

grouch -

About Malaysians, obviously generalisations are harmful but trust me, tfmpage kAlathulErundhu observe paNNi vaRREn. Atleast I can say this, ppl who follow TFM from Malaysia are generally lacking in logical skills. I really dont want to be obnoxious but to date, the only sensible, logical TFM observer I have seen from Malaysia is our Grouch.

Neengga nalla tittungga, nAn kandukkamAtten, in the meantime I need a wall to muttify, yEnthAn ippadi irukkAnggalO, tuuu.....

App- Mom bought Kumud and Vikat only today. Will post some Q&As

Kumudam Q & A Series
-------------------
Q: Is there some kind of convention in music? (isai marabu endru EdhAvadhu kattupAdu uNdA?)

(phrases in brackets my additions to add context, obviously, interpretation is mine)
A: (as music composers) it is our duty to make the next generation conversant with this(musical conventions)

As long as we have the concern that *this* should not go out of circulation or be forgotten(disappear from our collective consience) - be it musical or linguistic or good traits(naRpaNbugaL), they will live on...

Those conventions are things that need to be preserved

Kumudam Q & A Series
--------------------
Q: Why do talented people have pride/conceit? Is that also God's creation?

A: Talent and Pride are twin-borns. It is rare for one to exist without the other*. Just as the existence of day is proven by the existence of night, as anger is annotated by peace, like the two sides of a coin - pride and talent.

All this is not God's creation. These are things that appear by themselves and end up destroying themselves

* I know you are tempted to say - See Rahman, See MSV. Dont they prove that talent can exist without pride. But I believe without pride, they couldnt have achieved what they did. Not having pride enbadhu vERu, not expressing pride enbadhu vERU.

BR question is covered in the report that you shared.
I think he has chosen words very precisely - I will leave it to our Vaazhkudai sir to interpret it for our benefit (he is the right person to do it)

nanRi plum, for the shares

radiospathy blog on IR-GA-Ramarajan, telling the obvious things...

ராமராஜன் இயக்கிய படங்களில் இசைஞானி இளையராஜாவை இசையமைப்பாளராக்கியும் பாட்டுக்களைக் கேட்டு வாங்கியிருக்கிறார். ஆனால் இவரின் அடுத்த சுற்றில் நாயகன் ராமராஜன் என்ற கலைஞன் நீடித்து நிலைத்து நிற்க இளையராஜாவின் பங்கு பெரும்பங்கு என்பதைக் கண்ணை மூடிக்கொண்டே சொல்லிவிடலாம். அந்த அளவுக்கு ராமராஜனின் படங்களில் ராஜாவின் பாடல்கள் விஷேசமாக இருக்கும், குறிப்பாக நகரம் சார்ந்த கதைக்களனைக் கொண்டு அமைந்த மோகன் படங்களில் ராஜா என்றும், கிராமம் சார்ந்த கதைக்களனைக் கொண்ட ராமராஜன் படங்களில் ராஜா என்றும் இரட்டை சவாரி ஆனால் இரண்டு நாயகர்களுக்குமே இந்த இசை தான்

plum,
Nice series of posts with valid facts. We can't help but only pity them. The most pity thing as you said is they don't even want to try thinking why this is happening, direct attack because that comes at no cost (of their brains) and comes with so much ease.

kiru wrote:Oh my goodnes, what happened at the Madurai event ?

You probably know that contrary to his typical nature, IR had attended two audio releases of other composers recently. Both had VM penning some songs. For unknown reasons, VM was not on stage (in one case not even on invitation).

One was viswaroopam (composers Shankar-Ehsan-Loy) and IR attended the function obviously for Kamal's sake. Released the audio and Kamal praised him for the friendly gesture. VM was absent! (Someone said a close relative's death was the reason. Our general inference is that rAsA would have told 'avan vandhA nAn varamAttEn' )

Second was 'annakkodiyum kodiveeranum' and IR attended the function at Madurai (BR's invitation said Maniratnam will be on stage too but MR chose not to attend, VM's name was missing in invitation). The MD is G V Prakash and rAsA reportedly praised the boy, dispelling the myth that he doesn't praise younger "talents". There was a picture of IR-KR-YSR-GVP all on stage.

While BR had some praises for rAsA on stage (e.g. BR told IR "audience ellAm nee vandhappO ezhundhirichchAnga, enakku appadi seyyalai"), he also had some "advices" That has become the problem thing now.

The most irritating among those was the one asking him to work with VM again.

And he said it with some harsh reasoning ("madhuraiyil oru mottai gOpuram irukku - adhu mAthiri ippO thirai isai irukku", meaning VM is kalasam to the mottaikkOburam called IR).

nalla vELai, rAsA didn't pongify in that meeting itself He kept 'avai mariyAdhai' - possibly for Madurai, it could have been different in Chennai.

In any case, he now showed his displeasure in kumudam. From a "BR-IR-combo-fan" PoV, this rejuvenated ladAi is definitely a shock.

It appeared they are in better terms (though not working together on a project) based on IR's varalARRu suvadukaL, directors' function, NEPV release function and the annakkodi invitation etc. "Who knows, they could even work together for a future project" - one would have thought.

Now it's clear appadi oru future project kidaiyavE kidaiyAdhu.

That's ok - evvaLavO pAththAchchu...

@app - thanks for the synopsis. I think BR knows IR well, but does not know the nature of the mind inside IR.

I've mentioned this before, but I think as a society we are able to tell the smart people from the bad but not the extra-ordinary among these smart people.
IR belongs to this category. Not all people who do music think the same way, I think IR works like a STEM person (Science/Tech/Engg/Math). There is not much trial-and-error. The logic is worked out in the head and work executed after (just like you would write code). STEM people with extra-ordinary skills are characterized by a keen sense of precision in their logic. When 'precision' is the watch word, there is no room for political correctness or so called 'humility' at times. For eg, in the case of singers, as a Music Director, he gives his honest opinion (even though I think in the case of Bhava there is a personal bias - understandable as he is a human after all). This is the reason, he speaks his mind openly. Again, with SPB on stage, he would say, KJY is his favorite singer. Another aspect of such people are keen sense of logic - you could see this in the way IR talks.
So, if you know how an 'extra-ordinary' mind works and the psychology of such a person (sometimes show irritability/impatience) you would understand IR and not expect him to act/behave like other artsy/filmy folks. (BTW, I think IR would make it to Mensa club easily).
Maybe people in the film world are not exposed to such brilliance that commonly as somebody in the STEM world. This is where the majority of the misunderstanding comes (my guess). Maybe if he expressed his eccentricities/idiosyncracies like Kannadhasan (drinking etc) it would have been ok :-) But IR chose to go the demure/austere philosophical/spiritual way and he now is out-of-place with the rest of the artsy/filmy personality types.

UshakkA posted this on facebook : (from kumudam bhakti it seems)
kELvi by reader and badhil by ezhuththALar Balakumaran (who wrote dialog for nAyagan, e.g. the famous "neenga nallavarA kettavarA")

Q:
குமுதத்தில் இளையராஜாவின் பதில்களைப் படித்து வருகிறீர்களா? உங்கள் அபிப்ராயம் என்ன?
A:
அவருடையது சுத்தமான பதில்கள். பதில்கள் சுத்தமாக இருப்பதாலேயே கொஞ்சம் கடுகடுப்பாக இருக்கின்றன. பச்சைக்காய்கறிகள் நேரிடையாக உண்ணும்போது கடுப்பாகவும், காரமாகவும் நறுக் நறுக்கென்றும் இருக்கும். நன்கு வேகவைத்துவிட்டால் அது குழைந்து அதன் உண்மையான ருசி தெரியாது. மொத்தையாக இருக்கும். இளையராஜாவின் பதில்கள் பச்சைக் காய்கறி வகையைச் சார்ந்தவை. அது கடித்த உடனேயே சுளீர் என்று அதனுடைய குணத்தைக் காட்டும். நேரிடையாகத் தாக்கும்.

நாசூக்கான மனிதர்கள் விஷயங்களை நாசூக்காக கேட்கும்போது பதில் எந்த சுவாரசியமும் இல்லாமல் போகிறது. உண்மையைச் சொல்லுகிறபோது அது வேகமாகவோ, காட்டமாகவோ வெளிவருகிறது. அது என்ன குணத்தைக் கொண்டிருக்கிறது என்பதை விட அது என்ன சொல்கிறது என்பதை கவனிப்பது நல்லது. இளையராஜாவின் பதில்கள், படித்து உள்ளத்தில் பதிந்துகொள்ளவேண்டியவை. அவை சுத்தமானவை. தெளிவானவை. உறுதியானவை.

- எழுத்தாளர் திரு. பாலகுமாரன் (குமுதம் பக்தி ஸ்பெஷல்)

kiru,
One of your best post, beautiful summary!

Thanks for sharing that snippet appji and Ushaji. Absolutely true!. I believe plum has been saying the same about Raja for years. Even just now I had a conversation with one of my friend regarding the same topic. I am surprised what plum told in the morning became true. My friend was of a strong opinion that Raja did say wrong about Janaki. I made it clear by reading the actual kumudam Q&A in front of him. Best scenario of how lame it can get.

kiru wrote:@app - thanks for the synopsis. I think BR knows IR well, but does not know the nature of the mind inside IR.

I've mentioned this before, but I think as a society we are able to tell the smart people from the bad but not the extra-ordinary among these smart people.
IR belongs to this category. Not all people who do music think the same way, I think IR works like a STEM person (Science/Tech/Engg/Math). There is not much trial-and-error. The logic is worked out in the head and work executed after (just like you would write code). STEM people with extra-ordinary skills are characterized by a keen sense of precision in their logic. When 'precision' is the watch word, there is no room for political correctness or so called 'humility' at times. For eg, in the case of singers, as a Music Director, he gives his honest opinion (even though I think in the case of Bhava there is a personal bias - understandable as he is a human after all). This is the reason, he speaks his mind openly. Again, with SPB on stage, he would say, KJY is his favorite singer. Another aspect of such people are keen sense of logic - you could see this in the way IR talks.
So, if you know how an 'extra-ordinary' mind works and the psychology of such a person (sometimes show irritability/impatience) you would understand IR and not expect him to act/behave like other artsy/filmy folks. (BTW, I think IR would make it to Mensa club easily).
Maybe people in the film world are not exposed to such brilliance that commonly as somebody in the STEM world. This is where the majority of the misunderstanding comes (my guess). Maybe if he expressed his eccentricities/idiosyncracies like Kannadhasan (drinking etc) it would have been ok :-) But IR chose to go the demure/austere philosophical/spiritual way and he now is out-of-place with the rest of the artsy/filmy personality types.

Bharathiraaja needs to be himself to be a bharathiraaja. At the same time the guy must understand that his dear friend needs to be himself and have his own value system to be. He should let it be and that is true friendship. But from an IR fan angle - I empathize with the man - he is a true advaitin - a true zen follower - IF one has to find the ultimate truth - he/she has to be sincere in everything they do and that means even being open about one's feelings - conceits and prevarications will only disturb and deviate a true seeker from his path - this is so difficult - though it might sound simple - the higher you proceed more shall such challenges occur and to Raaja's credit - he has soared past these things blemishlessly.

Kiru's comment triggered a blogger to write a post

AJVJ wrote:

I saw a comment in an Ilayaraja forum that gave me the much needed inspiration to write another post, after a long time.

yAruppA indha AJVJ?

plum, avarukku oru membership attai kodungO (if he does not have one already)

I tweeter Kiru's post with our forum link. This blogger responded saying he was inspired by it.

I think @trvivek has joined us now. Again thro twitter links I guess.

@trvivek - do go t Members Lounge and introduce yourself

Web duniyA's multi page article criticizing IR's kumudam badhilkaL

இளையராஜா இந்த நூற்றாண்டின் மகத்தான இசைக்கலைஞர்களில் ஒருவர். அவ‌ரின் இசையும், பாடல்களும்தான் இன்றும் தமிழகத்தை தாலாட்டுகிறது. நமக்கு அதில் எள்ளளவும் மாற்றுக் கருத்தில்லை. இசையை மக்களிடமிருந்து துண்டித்து அது இந்த உலகத்துக்கு அப்பாற்பட்டது என ஆன்மீக சாயம் பூசுவதையும், கலைஞனை மகானாக தி‌ரித்துக் காட்டுவதையும்தான் ஏற்றுக் கொள்ள முடியவில்லை. கலைஞன் மகானாக தி‌ரியும் போது வார்த்தைகள் தடிக்கின்றன, பகைமை பீறிடுகிறது, இசை பிரகாசமிழக்கிறது.

இசைக்கும், நமக்கும் தேவை இளையராஜா என்ற கலைஞனே அன்றி மகானல்ல

tv serial song.. serial per theriyadhu... becoming mad for this number.. 90s IR' style.. lovely song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNbRCTeW_Wg

plum wrote:I tweeter Kiru's post with our forum link. This blogger responded saying he was inspired by it.

I think @trvivek has joined us now. Again thro twitter links I guess.

@trvivek - do go t Members Lounge and introduce yourself

Great.thanks guys. Good to know there is some validation for my line of thinking. I guess, mainly because we all here (and elsewhere as well, I guess) not only enjoy the music of IR but try to understand his work style as we are neck deep into his stuff. BTW, trvivek had a link to nice video of IR's recollecting this growth in the earlier years. Please check it out. He also says, he is not following 'any system of music'. This is something for the likes of Vicky to enlighten us further.

@Jai - "conceits and prevarications will only disturb and deviate a true seeker from his path" ..yes.. thats the word.. no 'prevarications' in the mans speak

Re: aanmiga saayam to music - well .. I am no great bhaktha but here is my stand on this - good food can make you happy, the appreciating glance of you lover, sure , the sweet innocent talk of your child . of course brings happiness and joy. But just some sound.. notes .. makes you feel something in your heart. Isn't it wonderful, and if you can create such tunes day in and day out effortlessly what can you attribute that to ? You cannot learn this in a university for sure, you can learn music but not composition . So you attribute it to some super, almighty power, right ? I think this is what IR is doing. Atheists need some patience here and understand the big picture.

Wow! Another beautiful post kiru. kalakkareenga.

my thought process on raja and his ways (as Kiru said we try to analyse him as well not his songs alone)

If there is one quality that defines raja that is this for me - SPONTANEITY
Look at this for instance from latest NJ concert
---Someone from audience shouts, "கண்ணே கலைமானே (பாடுங்க)”. Raja - shots back, sings - "கத்தியவன் என கண்டேன் உனை நானே”


That is Raja. You cannot prepare such things at all. And whatever raja does - his music, speech, writings it is this quality that personifies him.

I used to wonder earlier that why is he composing songs and throwing it out in 5 minutes. If he can compose a song in 5 mins, imagine if he takes hours for a song..how great his output would be. That is the easiest logical way of approaching it. But then after some years the true realization was that...thats the whole point of raja. He is doing it that way and that is the whole point of his music making. It is spontaneous.
Everything that his music brings - structural integrity, non linearity, the sheer audacity - everything is because of his subconscious music making which is spontaneous.
For instance how can you make songs like thumbi vaa..the whole composition should just fall in place in one go. You cannot stitch it at all.
He himself said in Be with Me that he didnt take his hand off from the first note and finished the tune in one go. The truth is you cannot do it the other way at all.

How is he creating songs spontaneously? And its happening for 40 years non stop? More than 1000 movies non stop? And these works are not simple, not one genre types, dont fall in any specific pattern. How and Why is he doing it? This is THE QUESTION..

How?
May be he is born with such tools or for a more atheist analysis, may be since he has set himself that way his subconscious supported by his ocean of knowledge is helping him achieve this.
Why?
I have read numerous places where he mentions this saying he is doing it because when music happens on the moment your ego is least attached to it. That kind of thinking is more or less prescribed by Ramanar et all. saying that the thought is born when ego is born.
I am no expert but thats exactly what Raja thinks and religiously follows it. Right or wrong is irrelevant.

Its mysterious of nature that the alternative that Nature has brought (as in many cases) is Rahman who goes the other extreme and puts in a lot of effort, processing the song to the maximum limit to what he thinks is the best. Again I am not going into what is right or wrong.
(It is really really mysterious that in almost every field you can find such directly opposite alternatives emerging..Federer/Nadal comes to my mind immediately.)

Now to understand Raja, this is the context that we need to understand. His whole point is about spontaneity. He not only believes that but follows that religiously. It is this spontaneity that comes out in him that the society which is so much these days into right or wrong approach is unable to understand.He records his mind at that instance and moves away. Where as the whole world is about processing your thoughts, mincing it to the extent it appeals to as many people and hurting as little people (because its right/wrong after all), he is just being spontaneous. And it is as interesting as rebellious as foolish and as spectacular his music.

a thought is born when ego is born - exact - Raja is simply trying to be a witness to this whole process of creation that is happening through him.
by stepping out of the "creator" seat and sitting relaxed in the "witness" seat (as ashtavakra says) Raaja is able to let the creative process unperturbed. now how the "created music" will sound purely depends on what material instruments and actors he has at his disposal - if it is a low budget "dont care" director synth pads and synthesizers render it -else good orch and great instrumentalists render it .

app_engine wrote:Kiru's comment triggered a blogger to write a post

AJVJ wrote:

I saw a comment in an Ilayaraja forum that gave me the much needed inspiration to write another post, after a long time.

yAruppA indha AJVJ?

plum, avarukku oru membership attai kodungO (if he does not have one already)

AJVJ I am thaanunga.. already membership attai irukku I joined this forum a couple of months back..

rajafan wrote:my thought process on raja and his ways (as Kiru said we try to analyse him as well not his songs alone)

If there is one quality that defines raja that is this for me - SPONTANEITY

I think I have explained to an extent, where this spontaneity comes from, in my blog post. I like think of his mind as a huge sponge that absorbs everything that it sees, hears etc. Though I don't think Raja has explicitly admitted this, I believe he has extra-ordinary memory power (everything from his past points to that - every anecdote, every testimony etc.)

I have seen a documentary about Judith Polgar , a famous chess player, where they do some 'mumbo-jumbo' (brain analysis) while she's playing a game, and conclude that when she has respond to an opponent's move, her brain queries the 25 million moves stored from all the games in her past, selects the games in which the opponent played the same move, analyses her response to that in all those games (ie; which ones she lost, which ones she won).. And all these calculations happen with a second it seems.

Apparently the brain's 'calculations time' is inversely propotional to the 'size of the knowledge bank' ie; if you remember 25 million moves, analyzing them will take < 1 sec.

I think something very similar is happening with Raaja - when he has to compose a tune, his brains pulls from the vast repository of Raagas, folk songs, knowledge of what Raagas will fit the mood of the song etc, automatically analyses the 'results' of the 'query' and select an apt Raaga.

And this is just scratching the surface, how his orchestration fits so well with the tune, his knowledge of literature etc. etc. must be deeply analysed.

Did anyone experience this remastered version of 4 CDs as explained by Mr. Muthusamy in this site?

V_S wrote:Did anyone experience this remastered version of 4 CDs as explained by Mr. Muthusamy in this site?

I posted a news report about this sometime earlier and Wizzy posted details / samples of the songs. (Most had great recording quality as originals themselves - stereo etc and couldn't appreciate what got better...these are not some classics that cry for better recording / remastering).

So, this is possibly just gimmick