Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

UshakkA posted this on facebook : (from kumudam bhakti it seems)
kELvi by reader and badhil by ezhuththALar Balakumaran (who wrote dialog for nAyagan, e.g. the famous "neenga nallavarA kettavarA")

Q:
குமுதத்தில் இளையராஜாவின் பதில்களைப் படித்து வருகிறீர்களா? உங்கள் அபிப்ராயம் என்ன?
A:
அவருடையது சுத்தமான பதில்கள். பதில்கள் சுத்தமாக இருப்பதாலேயே கொஞ்சம் கடுகடுப்பாக இருக்கின்றன. பச்சைக்காய்கறிகள் நேரிடையாக உண்ணும்போது கடுப்பாகவும், காரமாகவும் நறுக் நறுக்கென்றும் இருக்கும். நன்கு வேகவைத்துவிட்டால் அது குழைந்து அதன் உண்மையான ருசி தெரியாது. மொத்தையாக இருக்கும். இளையராஜாவின் பதில்கள் பச்சைக் காய்கறி வகையைச் சார்ந்தவை. அது கடித்த உடனேயே சுளீர் என்று அதனுடைய குணத்தைக் காட்டும். நேரிடையாகத் தாக்கும்.

நாசூக்கான மனிதர்கள் விஷயங்களை நாசூக்காக கேட்கும்போது பதில் எந்த சுவாரசியமும் இல்லாமல் போகிறது. உண்மையைச் சொல்லுகிறபோது அது வேகமாகவோ, காட்டமாகவோ வெளிவருகிறது. அது என்ன குணத்தைக் கொண்டிருக்கிறது என்பதை விட அது என்ன சொல்கிறது என்பதை கவனிப்பது நல்லது. இளையராஜாவின் பதில்கள், படித்து உள்ளத்தில் பதிந்துகொள்ளவேண்டியவை. அவை சுத்தமானவை. தெளிவானவை. உறுதியானவை.

- எழுத்தாளர் திரு. பாலகுமாரன் (குமுதம் பக்தி ஸ்பெஷல்)

kiru,
One of your best post, beautiful summary!

Thanks for sharing that snippet appji and Ushaji. Absolutely true!. I believe plum has been saying the same about Raja for years. Even just now I had a conversation with one of my friend regarding the same topic. I am surprised what plum told in the morning became true. My friend was of a strong opinion that Raja did say wrong about Janaki. I made it clear by reading the actual kumudam Q&A in front of him. Best scenario of how lame it can get.

kiru wrote:@app - thanks for the synopsis. I think BR knows IR well, but does not know the nature of the mind inside IR.

I've mentioned this before, but I think as a society we are able to tell the smart people from the bad but not the extra-ordinary among these smart people.
IR belongs to this category. Not all people who do music think the same way, I think IR works like a STEM person (Science/Tech/Engg/Math). There is not much trial-and-error. The logic is worked out in the head and work executed after (just like you would write code). STEM people with extra-ordinary skills are characterized by a keen sense of precision in their logic. When 'precision' is the watch word, there is no room for political correctness or so called 'humility' at times. For eg, in the case of singers, as a Music Director, he gives his honest opinion (even though I think in the case of Bhava there is a personal bias - understandable as he is a human after all). This is the reason, he speaks his mind openly. Again, with SPB on stage, he would say, KJY is his favorite singer. Another aspect of such people are keen sense of logic - you could see this in the way IR talks.
So, if you know how an 'extra-ordinary' mind works and the psychology of such a person (sometimes show irritability/impatience) you would understand IR and not expect him to act/behave like other artsy/filmy folks. (BTW, I think IR would make it to Mensa club easily).
Maybe people in the film world are not exposed to such brilliance that commonly as somebody in the STEM world. This is where the majority of the misunderstanding comes (my guess). Maybe if he expressed his eccentricities/idiosyncracies like Kannadhasan (drinking etc) it would have been ok :-) But IR chose to go the demure/austere philosophical/spiritual way and he now is out-of-place with the rest of the artsy/filmy personality types.

Bharathiraaja needs to be himself to be a bharathiraaja. At the same time the guy must understand that his dear friend needs to be himself and have his own value system to be. He should let it be and that is true friendship. But from an IR fan angle - I empathize with the man - he is a true advaitin - a true zen follower - IF one has to find the ultimate truth - he/she has to be sincere in everything they do and that means even being open about one's feelings - conceits and prevarications will only disturb and deviate a true seeker from his path - this is so difficult - though it might sound simple - the higher you proceed more shall such challenges occur and to Raaja's credit - he has soared past these things blemishlessly.

Kiru's comment triggered a blogger to write a post

AJVJ wrote:

I saw a comment in an Ilayaraja forum that gave me the much needed inspiration to write another post, after a long time.

yAruppA indha AJVJ?

plum, avarukku oru membership attai kodungO (if he does not have one already)

I tweeter Kiru's post with our forum link. This blogger responded saying he was inspired by it.

I think @trvivek has joined us now. Again thro twitter links I guess.

@trvivek - do go t Members Lounge and introduce yourself

Web duniyA's multi page article criticizing IR's kumudam badhilkaL

இளையராஜா இந்த நூற்றாண்டின் மகத்தான இசைக்கலைஞர்களில் ஒருவர். அவ‌ரின் இசையும், பாடல்களும்தான் இன்றும் தமிழகத்தை தாலாட்டுகிறது. நமக்கு அதில் எள்ளளவும் மாற்றுக் கருத்தில்லை. இசையை மக்களிடமிருந்து துண்டித்து அது இந்த உலகத்துக்கு அப்பாற்பட்டது என ஆன்மீக சாயம் பூசுவதையும், கலைஞனை மகானாக தி‌ரித்துக் காட்டுவதையும்தான் ஏற்றுக் கொள்ள முடியவில்லை. கலைஞன் மகானாக தி‌ரியும் போது வார்த்தைகள் தடிக்கின்றன, பகைமை பீறிடுகிறது, இசை பிரகாசமிழக்கிறது.

இசைக்கும், நமக்கும் தேவை இளையராஜா என்ற கலைஞனே அன்றி மகானல்ல

tv serial song.. serial per theriyadhu... becoming mad for this number.. 90s IR' style.. lovely song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNbRCTeW_Wg

plum wrote:I tweeter Kiru's post with our forum link. This blogger responded saying he was inspired by it.

I think @trvivek has joined us now. Again thro twitter links I guess.

@trvivek - do go t Members Lounge and introduce yourself

Great.thanks guys. Good to know there is some validation for my line of thinking. I guess, mainly because we all here (and elsewhere as well, I guess) not only enjoy the music of IR but try to understand his work style as we are neck deep into his stuff. BTW, trvivek had a link to nice video of IR's recollecting this growth in the earlier years. Please check it out. He also says, he is not following 'any system of music'. This is something for the likes of Vicky to enlighten us further.

@Jai - "conceits and prevarications will only disturb and deviate a true seeker from his path" ..yes.. thats the word.. no 'prevarications' in the mans speak

Re: aanmiga saayam to music - well .. I am no great bhaktha but here is my stand on this - good food can make you happy, the appreciating glance of you lover, sure , the sweet innocent talk of your child . of course brings happiness and joy. But just some sound.. notes .. makes you feel something in your heart. Isn't it wonderful, and if you can create such tunes day in and day out effortlessly what can you attribute that to ? You cannot learn this in a university for sure, you can learn music but not composition . So you attribute it to some super, almighty power, right ? I think this is what IR is doing. Atheists need some patience here and understand the big picture.

Wow! Another beautiful post kiru. kalakkareenga.

my thought process on raja and his ways (as Kiru said we try to analyse him as well not his songs alone)

If there is one quality that defines raja that is this for me - SPONTANEITY
Look at this for instance from latest NJ concert
---Someone from audience shouts, "கண்ணே கலைமானே (பாடுங்க)”. Raja - shots back, sings - "கத்தியவன் என கண்டேன் உனை நானே”


That is Raja. You cannot prepare such things at all. And whatever raja does - his music, speech, writings it is this quality that personifies him.

I used to wonder earlier that why is he composing songs and throwing it out in 5 minutes. If he can compose a song in 5 mins, imagine if he takes hours for a song..how great his output would be. That is the easiest logical way of approaching it. But then after some years the true realization was that...thats the whole point of raja. He is doing it that way and that is the whole point of his music making. It is spontaneous.
Everything that his music brings - structural integrity, non linearity, the sheer audacity - everything is because of his subconscious music making which is spontaneous.
For instance how can you make songs like thumbi vaa..the whole composition should just fall in place in one go. You cannot stitch it at all.
He himself said in Be with Me that he didnt take his hand off from the first note and finished the tune in one go. The truth is you cannot do it the other way at all.

How is he creating songs spontaneously? And its happening for 40 years non stop? More than 1000 movies non stop? And these works are not simple, not one genre types, dont fall in any specific pattern. How and Why is he doing it? This is THE QUESTION..

How?
May be he is born with such tools or for a more atheist analysis, may be since he has set himself that way his subconscious supported by his ocean of knowledge is helping him achieve this.
Why?
I have read numerous places where he mentions this saying he is doing it because when music happens on the moment your ego is least attached to it. That kind of thinking is more or less prescribed by Ramanar et all. saying that the thought is born when ego is born.
I am no expert but thats exactly what Raja thinks and religiously follows it. Right or wrong is irrelevant.

Its mysterious of nature that the alternative that Nature has brought (as in many cases) is Rahman who goes the other extreme and puts in a lot of effort, processing the song to the maximum limit to what he thinks is the best. Again I am not going into what is right or wrong.
(It is really really mysterious that in almost every field you can find such directly opposite alternatives emerging..Federer/Nadal comes to my mind immediately.)

Now to understand Raja, this is the context that we need to understand. His whole point is about spontaneity. He not only believes that but follows that religiously. It is this spontaneity that comes out in him that the society which is so much these days into right or wrong approach is unable to understand.He records his mind at that instance and moves away. Where as the whole world is about processing your thoughts, mincing it to the extent it appeals to as many people and hurting as little people (because its right/wrong after all), he is just being spontaneous. And it is as interesting as rebellious as foolish and as spectacular his music.

a thought is born when ego is born - exact - Raja is simply trying to be a witness to this whole process of creation that is happening through him.
by stepping out of the "creator" seat and sitting relaxed in the "witness" seat (as ashtavakra says) Raaja is able to let the creative process unperturbed. now how the "created music" will sound purely depends on what material instruments and actors he has at his disposal - if it is a low budget "dont care" director synth pads and synthesizers render it -else good orch and great instrumentalists render it .

app_engine wrote:Kiru's comment triggered a blogger to write a post

AJVJ wrote:

I saw a comment in an Ilayaraja forum that gave me the much needed inspiration to write another post, after a long time.

yAruppA indha AJVJ?

plum, avarukku oru membership attai kodungO (if he does not have one already)

AJVJ I am thaanunga.. already membership attai irukku I joined this forum a couple of months back..

rajafan wrote:my thought process on raja and his ways (as Kiru said we try to analyse him as well not his songs alone)

If there is one quality that defines raja that is this for me - SPONTANEITY

I think I have explained to an extent, where this spontaneity comes from, in my blog post. I like think of his mind as a huge sponge that absorbs everything that it sees, hears etc. Though I don't think Raja has explicitly admitted this, I believe he has extra-ordinary memory power (everything from his past points to that - every anecdote, every testimony etc.)

I have seen a documentary about Judith Polgar , a famous chess player, where they do some 'mumbo-jumbo' (brain analysis) while she's playing a game, and conclude that when she has respond to an opponent's move, her brain queries the 25 million moves stored from all the games in her past, selects the games in which the opponent played the same move, analyses her response to that in all those games (ie; which ones she lost, which ones she won).. And all these calculations happen with a second it seems.

Apparently the brain's 'calculations time' is inversely propotional to the 'size of the knowledge bank' ie; if you remember 25 million moves, analyzing them will take < 1 sec.

I think something very similar is happening with Raaja - when he has to compose a tune, his brains pulls from the vast repository of Raagas, folk songs, knowledge of what Raagas will fit the mood of the song etc, automatically analyses the 'results' of the 'query' and select an apt Raaga.

And this is just scratching the surface, how his orchestration fits so well with the tune, his knowledge of literature etc. etc. must be deeply analysed.

Did anyone experience this remastered version of 4 CDs as explained by Mr. Muthusamy in this site?

V_S wrote:Did anyone experience this remastered version of 4 CDs as explained by Mr. Muthusamy in this site?

I posted a news report about this sometime earlier and Wizzy posted details / samples of the songs. (Most had great recording quality as originals themselves - stereo etc and couldn't appreciate what got better...these are not some classics that cry for better recording / remastering).

So, this is possibly just gimmick

Does BR say IR is not doing work but simbly talking flAsafy?

இளையராஜாவின் கருத்து, பாரதிராஜாவை கடும் கோபத்துக்குள்ளாக்கி உள்ளது. அவர் கூறும்போது,‘நான்தான் பெரிய ஆள் என்று தலைக்கணத்தோடு திரியக்கூடாது. இதைத்தான் அவரிடம் (இளையராஜா)சொன்னேன். கோபித்துக்கொண்டார். நான் ஒன்றும் உத்தமபுத்திரன் என்று சொல்லவில்லை. என்னிடமும் 20 சதவீதம் அழுக்கு இருக்கு, ஆனால் 80 சதவீதம் பரிசுத்தமானவன். ஒரு விஷயத்தை தெளிவாக புரிந்துகொள்ளுங்கள், வேலை செய்ய முடிகிறவன் வேலை செய்துகிட்டிருக்கிறான். வேலை செய்ய முடியாதவன் தத்துவம் பேசிக்கொண்டிருக்கிறான் என்றார்.

Oh athuthaanaa. Now I remember wizzy sharing some songs. Let me then listen to it. Thanks app for reminding.

bharathiraja-va avaradh manasAtchi nichayamAi indha bhoomiyilEyE naraga vEdhanai kodukkum

I thought he atleast knows what IR likes and dislikes, but it is surprising BR didn't understand IR at all, all these years despite their close friendship. How funny and now he talks against his musical contributions as well, if that article is true.

V_S wrote:I thought he atleast knows what IR likes and dislikes, but it is surprising BR didn't understand IR at all, all these years despite their close friendship. How funny and now he talks against his musical contributions as well, if that article is true.

Highly insensitive remark by BR. He should know better how hard and effectively (pazhassi rAjA, NEPV etc) IR works even today. The half-glass full guys like Gautam, Balki etc are leveraging IR's skills to their benefit while the half-glass empty BR is losing out. Maybe he thinks Rahman is good enough for his movies and does not need IR any more. 20% azhukku is a funny comment !!

V_S wrote:Wow! Another beautiful post kiru. kalakkareenga.

Thanks VS for the encouraging words !! I think rajafan and jai are elevating the discussion. Amazing contribution by vicks. I do think spontaneity is what IR is shooting for. Even though I think there is lot of 'system' (choice of raagam) happening subconsciously (as vicks alludes to). Rigorous application of techniques (like raagam usage) consistenly over period of time, has turned into 'second-nature' through internalization and assimilation of all this knowledge.
To some extent, I think Rahman, also taps into his spontaneity but he is like the Apple design team - one idea/multiple iterations over it to finesse it. But I think Rahman works on rhythm, texture, sound etc. The main musical ideas remain the same. In the case of IR, the whole work is 'all or nothing' concept. Only once, I have noticed him rewrite some notes after seeing a reaction on the Hungary Budapest orchestra's conductor. But you never know, IR himself might have been iterating over a different ideas in his head so fast he thinks it is just one idea that is coming out !!! SPB himself says, 'avanukkE theriyaadhunu ninaikkiREn' - referring to how his music is born.

Yes. First of all no need to invite IR for that function. It might have irked BR because Gautham Menon did a huge honor and respect to IR during NEPV audio launch. It might have pricked him to do that. So that makes me believe that it was more of a formality rather than pure friendship. Even if I appreciate that, there was no need to talk anything personal in front of everyone, other than sharing some nostalgic moments. I don't know why BR always does that, and now blames IR, since he reverted back. No need for all this. If you have so much hatred inside and you are pretty much sure you are going to irk him, why do you need to do this at all to your friend. I have seen this happening few times. Still IR didn't open on those instances, may be since he was doing repeatedly he had to put a full stop to it.

oru pAdal kAtchiyil nadiththArAm

And now, director Selvaa has convinced the Isaignani to appear for a full-length song Kadhale Illadha Desam Engirukku in his forthcoming film Nadi Thudikuthadi. The song was recently shot on Ilayaraja and a young band in Fiji Islands. “Though Ilaiyaraaja was initially not ready to stand in front of the camera, he cooperated well on the sets,” said Selvaa.

On how he convinced the composer, the director said, “Producer Pazha Karuppaiah and I explained to him the importance of the song and we assured him that his scenes will be natural.”

Article on TVG

Interesting to see that in an article about an ICM expert (Padmabhushan awardee), there's reference to a couple of film personalities

Obviously, one of them is our man

At this point, he also concedes that musicians, in general, face resistance and are scared to stick their neck out to do something different.

To buttress his point, he cites the outrage music composer Ilayaraja faced, especially from the purists, when the Thyagaraja krithi Mari mari ninne, originally set in ragam Kambhoji, was set to Saramathi in the Tamil movie Sindhu Bhairavi.

“Creativity is a must in music; however, it must adhere to certain norms, and must not be there just for the heck of it.”

Blog post reproducing a 1992 interview by rAsA

As usual, naRuk-naRuk badhilkaL

Sample :

’DIL’ ஹிந்திப் படத்தில், ‘இதயத்தைத் திருடாதே’ படத்தில் வரும் ‘ஓ.. ப்ரியா’ பாடலை அப்படியே ஆனந்த்-மிலிந்த் lift செய்திருக்கிறார்கள். இதற்கெல்லாம் Copyright இல்லையா?


♫ ”Copyright இருக்கிறது. அதாவது காப்பி அடிப்பதற்கு அவர்களுக்கு ‘ரைட்’ இருக்கிறது. நீங்கள் எழுதும் கட்டுரையில் பெர்னாட்ஷா எழுதிய வாக்கியத்தைச் சுட்டிக்காட்டினால், பெர்னாட்ஷா Copyright law பேசுவாரா என்ன? பாவம் அவர்கள் இல்லாதவர்கள். எடுத்துக் கொள்ளட்டும். இசை, குறைந்துபோகும் செல்வமா என்ன?”