Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

http://movies.ndtv.com/regional/kamal-haasan-records-ilayaraja-s-tune-at-30-minute-s-notice-330971

Kamal Haasan records Ilayaraja's tune at 30-minute's notice

There seem to be no full stops or even punctuation marks in the career of the amazing Kamal Haasan. Barely have the controversies surrounding his new release Vishwaroopam died down, when one hears of the maverick artist jumping in where no other artist would dare.

Kamal Haasan has sung a song for composing maestro Ilayaraja -- and that too at just half-an-hour's notice after the singer assigned the job of singing the intricate composition couldn't rise to the occasion.

"Get me Kamal on the phone," Ilayaraja commanded his assistant. Within an hour Kamal reached the recording studio in Chennai and in half-an-hour the 'ditty' deed was done.

The song is for the Pankaj Kapoor-starrer Happi, which is a tribute to Charlie Chaplin -- and Kamal is a diehard Chaplin fan. The Tamil genius has paid heartfelt tributes to Chaplin in films like Pushpak and Sagar.

Said director Bhavna Talwar: "It all happened in a flash. We were in Chennai to record this amazing composition titled Zindagi Dish written by Jaideep Sahni. Raja sir (Ilayaraja) was not getting what he wanted. The singer, who was assigned to do the job, wasn't getting it right. Raja sir asked his assistant to contact Kamalji. Within no time Kamalji was in the studio. It took him half an hour to record the song."

When contacted, Kamal brushed off the feat as part of just another day's work.

"My respect for certain people goes beyond the work place. Shivaji Ganesan, K. Balachander and Ilayaraja are to me, idols. And if they call, I run. As simple as that," said Kamal Haasan.

The multi-faceted artist lets out an interesting self-observation.

"Somehow I find it much easier to connect with male artists. If you see the Kathak performance in Vishwaroopam, you'd see how closely I've observed and imbibed Pandit Birju Maharaj's style. This wouldn't have been possible with a female dancer. Likwise in music, though I deeply admire M.S. Subbulakshmi, Lata Mangeshkar and Asha Bhosle, it's (Mangalampalli) Balamuralikrishna that I idolise," he said.

thiraipadal.com not working

Though it was rumoured from last year that it will be pulled off, this comes as a shock as its the ONLY biggest complete source(even it has some misses)

Looks like its working fine with Mac OS but failing in Windows/Linux. Even it was working in Android (Stock Browser, given Flash installed) but failing there too. iPhone/iPad users can try their luck, since Mac OS is working as of now

Sakala,
thiraipaadal is not working on my mac also. It says 'Unable to open file'.

BTW, Plum, good to see you in 365RajaQuiz. I believe @tekvijay is sakala? I started very late in the first season (31/100). In the second season, I made 97/100.

Hi Guys,

Leaving to Rogers stadium for the concert. If the WI-FI works out.. I will try to selectively webcast the concert. Here's the link for live stream. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/senthilvinu

I will try to post live updates on twitter.
https://twitter.com/SenthilVinu

Cheers,
Senthil

Senthil,
Really kind of you. That's a wonderful idea/service for those who could not witness the show live. Thank you so much.

Raaga_Suresh wrote:Plum,

I think you may be doing this to be political correct but Rahman can never compare to Raja in BGM. As I once told in the earlier forum, Rahman's BGM does not elevate but is more elevator music. Something pleasant playing in the background and nothing else. Even not so famous music directors give better BGM than Rahman. 'Talash' is a case in point.

I fully agree with you that Rahman has no clue about cinema whereas Raja is this matter is a master. No one understands cinema better than Raja.

I dont want to bring Rahman here as it is a disservice to him always comparing him to raja.

Speaking of Raja alone, many dont realise raja as a personality contributes to his music so much. He understands various art forms and is able to grasp the classical aspects of it unbelievably. You can clearly see that in the variety in his music. When Bharathi songs came out i was amazed how the music brings the genius of bharathi as well as its simplicity. Pengal Endral was again a revelation in making authentic indianised hard metal. Karumathur kaatukullae from virumandi brings that koothu art from to perfection. There are so many bits and pieces in his works that take me to some great cross references across various art forms. All these are not coincidences.

This varierty that is so lacking in others is because clearly raja does lot of hard work and his super brain ofcourse helps him. The guy quotes kamba ramayanam for fun. Heard he can talk about sanga literature particularly Bhakthi lierature as good as anybody. He watches iranian and other world movies. There was a quote he made in Be with me program which showed how deeply he is into ramanaresque thinking. All this apart from the hard work that he puts into learn music. Show he is learning learning learning. He is a total artist.

I think raja brushes all this saying athuva varuthu. People just beleive him. No way. Its all a fruit of his sheer hardwork. The same thing that TVG said in Be with Me. He hasnt seen anybody who wants to learn and learn like raja

Its no wonder he understands cinema as according to me he realised very early that it could be the only media to take his music to masses. That is his media only. But hearing to what many people say, like Balu mahendra, many dirs, he has again invested his time to understand stuff.
The only pathetic thing is that there are not so great artists in tamil cinema who have challenged raja. They have used raja but not challenged his sensibilities, thought process. Thats why raja pulled himself into a shell to escape from all the mediocrity that was surrounding him.

The best thing that happened to us is that knowingly or unknowingly they all went to raja and looking back at it he has just played (thiruvilaiyadal) in the space. Most of them had no clue of what raja was trying in the name of songs and bgm. Being a 90s music fan and only knowing his hit songs of 80s, i am now only looking back at his entire works in 70s and 80s. My head spins of the stuff that he has done in 70s and 80s.

V_S wrote:Senthil,
Really kind of you. That's a wonderful idea/service for those who could not witness the show live. Thank you so much.

V_S,

There was lot of WI-FI + bandwidth issues. So tried my best to webcast. Here's the portion I livecast.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/senthilvinu

I also recorded some on the phone directly when I couldn't livecast. Will upload that tomorrow.

Overall, no new info for HCIRF. Will post my review tomorrow.

Cheers,
Senthil

kiru wrote:
I think you are under-appreciating Rahman's skills here. Note, he got an oscar for bgm in Slumdog millionaire. His style is different - more linear melody oriented. IR's is a complex western classical style.

No, kiru, I am not talking about Rahman's music in general but his BGM. I have watched movies like 'Jodha Akbar', 'Kizhakku Cheemaiyile', 'Zubeida', Ravanan', 'Sivaji', 'Endhiran' and after all that I came to the conclusion that he no clue about how to enhance a scene in our movies through his music. People can disagree with me, which is fine, but I strongly hold that Rahman still hasn't understood how to score BGM.

If I am not mistaken, 'Slumdog' was not BGM in our sense of the word. He had to give some 'themes' for scenes which were outlined and those pieces were used in the movie. It is not like our movie BGM, where you need to see the movie and score for each scene.

rajafan,

Fully agree with you. I have also been saying this that the effort Raja puts in is enormous. Most people end up thinking a genius need not put in effort. Infact I would say that a genius ends up putting in more effort that an ordinary musician. It has been something which I have been saying for great composers like Tyagaraja. Their inherent musical ability was one thing and the effort they put in is another thing altogether.

idhanala... IR Great..............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCjRDHHUias

Raaga_Suresh wrote:

kiru wrote:
I think you are under-appreciating Rahman's skills here. Note, he got an oscar for bgm in Slumdog millionaire. His style is different - more linear melody oriented. IR's is a complex western classical style.

No, kiru, I am not talking about Rahman's music in general but his BGM. I have watched movies like 'Jodha Akbar', 'Kizhakku Cheemaiyile', 'Zubeida', Ravanan', 'Sivaji', 'Endhiran' and after all that I came to the conclusion that he no clue about how to enhance a scene in our movies through his music. People can disagree with me, which is fine, but I strongly hold that Rahman still hasn't understood how to score BGM.

If I am not mistaken, 'Slumdog' was not BGM in our sense of the word. He had to give some 'themes' for scenes which were outlined and those pieces were used in the movie. It is not like our movie BGM, where you need to see the movie and score for each scene.

Although, this would be a nice discussion, didn't want to get deep into it. I agree with Kiru more on this point. Rahman has an excellent understanding of BGM and in fact employs lot of approaches Raja has developed successfully. How they do it are different. Slumdog is a great BGM. Very well thought out and created. Simple ideas but extremely effective. I consider this and VTV his best BGM works.

I agree on the larger point with Raaga_Suresh. Probably no one in the world has an understanding of the dramaturgy as Raja does. I have seen major Hollywood movies with totally bad BGM. Recent film "Looper" music score would a good example to cite (it tries to be Hans Zimmer and fails badly) And I doubt any composer will work unsupervised creating BGM for a whole film like Raja can do. Most MD's in Hollywood need director's vision. Out of contemporary ones, I actually think Hans Zimmer is amazing in terms of storytelling but he works so hard at it. Raja has bit of natural brilliance when it comes to BGM that is very hard to surpass. So comparing Raja to any other composer may not be fair

V_S wrote:Sakala,
thiraipaadal is not working on my mac also. It says 'Unable to open file'.

BTW, Plum, good to see you in 365RajaQuiz. I believe @tekvijay is sakala? I started very late in the first season (31/100). In the second season, I made 97/100.

V_S, yes, @tekvijay its my id! Are u in twitter?!

Thiraipaadal is working now! I have put this tweet!

இசைஞானி & கலைஞானி Combo - The Penultimate Pulsating Kickass Bass எகிரும் StageSongs http://goo.gl/bPfoc #StartMusic&Dance #irreplacableIR

A Celebration for the http://tp.com Return! This is OUR "Finders & Keepers" Collection!

@Raaga_suresh - I think if you are able to do a tune (for a song) you should also be able to do BGM. But if we define BGM writing score for an orchestra, then I think that is not Rahman's cup of tea. He even lets somebody else do some of this work ('strings arranged by' etc ). Even in songs you can see the complex orchestration of IR (vis-a-vis Rahman songs). Anyways, in a nutshell, we have to just classify them as two different styles and go with our personal preferences. But if you ask my for my bias, on which style I value more and which I prefer and which is more rich and complex, you know the answer :-)

Sakalakala Vallavar wrote:
V_S, yes, @tekvijay its my id! Are u in twitter?!

Thanks. For the second time I have opened my account in twitter, as I my first account got deactivated, as I was not logging in. My new id is @maestrosworld.

This is what I(and I suspect our suresh65ji also) resent. We cannot explain away it as just a different BGM style by Rahman. That is what is disservice to IR's phenomenal understanding of the function of BGM, the method of applying WCM classical concepts, and ofcourse not just blindly doing that, and bringing in native instruments and techniques appropriately and providing the detailed canvas he does.

My point was simply that it is because IR has set such standards that commercially, it became imperative for Rahman to even attempt BGM.
That he wasnt initially interested from his thoughts about the function of music ( he wasnt interested in cinema music at all; he said he wnted to change the pop sound of tn as his manifesto; he was clerly having a different objective)

That he even allowed others to make BGM for some of his movies initially. Yes, padaiyappa is so de-inspiring to score BGM but didnt IR do for even paaru paaru pattanam paaru?

This is not a reduction of Rahman's capabilities simply recognition of his priorities. Why is it difficult to accept that BGM was not at all his priorities initially?

And that it obviously shows in the difference of excellence between Raja and his BGM?

Yes, it is possible to generally coat an emotion and give decent BGM - everyone does that. So Rahman can definitely do that better than the Devas and Bharadwajs. Thats not the point.

The point is through sheer interest and passion and knowledge of cinema, aligned with his phenom musical talents, IR stands apart in this.

You may even claim that musically, Rahman is Raja's equal. That is an acceptable opionion.
But cinematiclly, Rahman simply lacks the breadth of knowledge Raja has - this is fact(though smart arses will ask did you monitor Rahman's home DVD collection and install a camera in his living room and bedroom 24/7 to know that he doesnt watch that many movies). It is clear from his disussion of cinema that he just isnt exposed that much.

That's not wrong - his priorities were always Pop Music Elevation To Western Standards. Why the difficulty in accepting it?

I strongly believe if IR had not set the standards of BGM, Rahman wil not even bother to do BGM. Now it has become commercially necessary for him to do it. I hope one day he acknowledges it - being spiritual also means being truthful no?

The second point is with all his cinematic knowledge if IR had merely gone by regular standards of BGM, he wouldnt have stood out. But he chose to align his two strong suits and provide extra-ordinary pop music that fused in the best possible way with the sensibility of the movie and the director - and that ranged from Rama Narayanan to Adoor Gopalakrishnan.

THe sheer insanity of that last statement - how does anyone even imagine that kind of a musician? India hasn't understood that.


There are ppl who claim Vanraj Bhatia is unsurpassed in BGM - and look at his range?
There are ppl who claim Johnson Maash is unsurpassed in BGM - and look at his style? FUNCTIONAL BGM!! EFFING FUNCTIONAL BGM WITH NONE OF HIS WCM MASTERY SHOWING UP!

And here you have a man who does it for the whole range of Cinema.

nyAyamnu oNNu irundhA Rahman fns and MSV fans will stop even arguing about who married music better to providing BGM for movies.

V_Sji - didnt know you were maestrosworld As for raja quiz, i am all bachcha no inf ront of you

innum app enginelAm kalandnhukittA mathavangaLukku deposit out

plum wrote:Like I said see mApLa art appreciation standards. namma vasishtar kraucher rangeku rasanai vechurukkAr

yOv, I know you are kidding, but intha comparison thEvaiyA? It was our mother who encouraged, didn't mind us kids have late nights to watch Mountbatten series.

On BGM. My brother (the hairline fracture shoulder bone guy), a hcARRf, and I had always discussed about a movie, preferably Kamal's, where ARR does the songs and IR does the BGM. We talked about it more than a decade ago. (Hub-la solli irukken, don't think I can find the post).

My opinion is a kind of mixed on this. I can very much see/agree with Suresh when he says that ARR's score is a lot like elevator music - good hear in the background but does not add much to the character of the scene. At the same time, I dont think i can permanently bracket him into that slot. There were scores by ARR which were effective, I felt. ARR came from jingle background and hence it is not that he is totally alien to how to compose BGMs, especially given the fact that in many jingles, composers fill music to already-shot sequences. I think his understanding of the larger issues such as theme of the story, character's feelings etc is weaker. He tries to add a nice piece to the scene - and, that approach may not be the right approach for every scene. That said, his BGMs for Swades, Lagaan, Dil Se etc. were very impressive for me. At times he too pushes it to the edge, which i find interesting. Like I least expected an electric guitar in the title score of Rang De Basanti, given the period it was showing. But it aptly registers a statement, thematically speaking. But yes, such examples are very few. Generally speaking, We dont look forward to his BGMs with as much eagerness as we look for Raaja's. At times, ARR's BGMs work and many times, they dont.

And I agree with Plum here - that ultimately, it is Ilaiyaraaja who has set very high standards for any composer in terms of BGMs. Mani Ratnam, when posed with the tricky question of "Raaja vs. Rahman", undiplomatically admitted that he would place Raaja on a higher pedestal in BGM scoring.

If there is one thing, about which I do not have a mixed opinion - it is about the fact that Raaja is the best when it comes to BGM. No doubt about it (although, I must say that the BGM of NEPV was disappointing).

kamalaakarsh wrote:(although, I must say that the BGM of NEPV was disappointing).

As I mentioned before, the songs's music were used sparingly as the background score, with addition of very, very light stuff. This is refreshing, rather than lathering up with thick sounds. Most work were done with the songs with intention of using the sounds for background score as well, if I were to understand Gautham's intention (spending so much just for songs, come on, don't let loose any single drop). So, if I may, I beg* to differ.

*Do I get money for begging?

kiru,

Plum has clearly stated what I wanted to say. It definitely gets my goat when Rahman is spoken at the same level of Raja when it comes to BGM. Like Plum, I too will have no issues if someone tells me that Rahman makes better songs that Raja etc. I don't believe in this both are different approaches to BGM and I state this again: Rahman does understand films as much as Raja does and it shows in his BGM. As Kamal said, there could be movies where his BGM was decent, but those are few. Anyway, I don't want to drag on this debate but I will clearly state that I don't buy the "Rahman is good but different" line of thinking. He is nowhere close to Raja in this department. To be fair to Rahman, no one in Indian film music history is

Plum,

I have heard lot about Johnson Master's BGM but I was a bit irritated by the BGM of 'Namakku Paarkan Mundhiri Thopugal'. Music was on and on in the BGM and certain I felt like crying, "Please be silent". And yes, you hit the nail on the head wrt Raja's range. And what a BGM he gave for Adoor. Amazing.

good diskos...
just want to added this when i finished listening to "pothi vechcha malligai mottu"..
Raaja goes beyond simply melody construction and orchestration - i no need to repeet. whole world knows..
but still i have to solliye aaganum this...
in the interlude.. there is a beautiful trancey phase when there is an unusual "harmony" or should i say sync step (as an opposite to 'counterpoint' or 'reply') between Accoustic Guitar and hold your breath.. Naadhaswaram that precedes the "getti melam" and SPB singing "thaali seyya". Why do this delicate experiment when the guy is anyway gonna blow it open by "thaali seyya naethu"?
Any other talented MD would have straight proceeded to Nadhaswaram and getti melam . why do this intricate "play guitar and naadhaswaram together" and then take extreme pains ini mike positioning of naadhaswaram so that it doesnt hide the "guitar" it is syncing with and then go to the track and "amp up" that accousitc guitar sound? why go through all this pain?
Answer is simple. If you ask Raaja - he would say simply - "it says so in the damn story".. If you question further - he would point to Bharathiraaja and that guy would have said.. the couple in question are romantically involved at a great cost - their union is an aspiration of an earlier generation (their grandmas) and is on the 'weaker side' of the probability scale and know what - it is a doomed relationship in the end - so this song - this phase is the only space where a positive future could be dreamed up and hence my beloved raaja played that sync "play together" bit with guitar and naadhaswaram - guitar playing the "pensive" "not all that hunky dory" tune and naadhaswaram who is typically "sunshine in florida" playing "yes sir" to this. Had the instrument been shehnaai - then the entire tone would have changed to borderline melancholy to total "despair" and that is where Raaja the instrument wizard par excellence stands on the top. Quiz him further and the guy would have landed a slap. So stretch the metal wire now...
For me the whole "thaali seyya naethu" charanam is totally redundant because of this sensational interlude.. but it had to be done to honour the time honoured tradition of second charanam.. Still this highlights that Raaja is never behind "most catchy" melody or "sweet tune" - these are incidental - his aim is to tell as much story as possible - be it BGM or songs. Rest of the MDs are great song makers - no doubt but are very poor story tellers.

"Rest of the MDs are great song makers - no doubt but are very poor story tellers."

Dadasthu Very well said.

Raaga_Suresh wrote:I have heard lot about Johnson Master's BGM but I was a bit irritated by the BGM of 'Namakku Paarkan Mundhiri Thopugal'.

The BGM of thoovAnaththubikaL is decent

However, cannot even come anywhere close to what IR had done for moonnAm pakkam! text book / encyclopaedia / thol kAppiyam for BGM

It's interesting to observe that while IR is very comfortable with WCM, he doesn't necessarily employ it for every scene - though it would be possible to take care of every emotion competently with an ensemble, saving time and money. namma ALu eppovum variety / fusion / unimaginable imagination etc leading to the rAsA genre - so, you hear a flute carnatic piece for minutes, powering symphonic WCM on another occasion etc.

'pukundhu viLaiyAdal' - thy name is rAsA BGM!

Simbhu may call it "tribute to Ilayaraja sir".

I would say "insult to Ilayaraja"

Not just jagada jagadam but also the Telugu version of 'rAjA rAjAthi rAjan indha rAjA' gets molested inside this number.

It was funny that direct playing of this song on youtube is blocked by browser at my workplace (forced safe mode )

OTOH, the embedded version (last song thread of the hub) worked fine

ok, I don't want to muddy the discussion more on BGM. My view is on record.

Good news from my side. I met Raja in Toronto in the Hotel he was staying. Showed him my feature trailer and explained what the film has done so far. He watched the trailer with full attention (like we see him doing any piece of work) Then, I told him about my next project and requested him to compose music for it (It is more of an international project). He was very positive and told me to meet him when my project is fully ready. He was easy to talk to and was flexible. I just got a such a kick out of showing him my trailer. My love for his music must have to mean something as I met him on a valentine's day (There were arrangements to meet him couple of days before but it didn't happen) It was probably the greatest valentine gift I can have!

Now I just have lot of work on my plate. Planning to meet him when I go to India and hopefully the finalized script/team will interest him.

I will try to post as much as I can on Raja...as I'm gearing up for the next project. Cheers.