Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Drunkenmunk Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:48 pm

Usha wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idRt2-KckAA

ippidi pOdu aruvALa:

Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2 - Page 25 Humble10

ravinat Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:40 am

crimson king wrote:I didn't answer the question because I didn't want to launch into a long rant about Western music and stereotyped perceptions of it in India. (a) Yes, indeed, it is soft and melodious, there is nalinam in that sense, never denied it. (b) No, that approach very much exists in Western music. Note that kiru also agreed that the string arrangements are indeed Western. Now...

Sorry, but firstly there is no such thing as a typical Western music. It is an ocean and, possibly due to the diversity of cultures within Western (as in American, English, Scottish, Irish, German, Italian, French, Spanish, Russian, etc) and also to the variety of instruments employed by them, covers a wider variety of styles than Indian music. And just like Hindi music has a very different flavour (over and above just the language aspect) from Tamil, Northern British music feels different from Southern or New York music from Los Angeles. Maybe a listener who is not familiar with Western music needs to first engage deeply with it to sense these differences significantly enough, that is not for me to say. But they do exist and have been observed by Western authors/journalists as well, i.e, not a figment of my imagination.

With that out of the way, secondly, Western music certainly accommodates music that is soft, subtle, sentimental and sophisticated. These are not uniquely Indian attributes. A perception that Western is bound to be narasam is perhaps influenced by the tendency of Indian media to highlight the worst pop trash coming out of America or UK and celebrate it like the second coming of Jesus. But that is not necessarily representative of what Western music is and can be. I am going to use a track built entirely around vocalise (just to eliminate the language problem) to demonstrate the capacity for Western to be soft and 'curvy' (at the same time avoiding instrumentals as they can be 'heavy'). Just for the sake of info, this was 1977 and not likely to have been influenced by Ilayaraja's music.

As I remarked before, conventional (pre-Schoenberg) Western music revolves around 12 tones (and light music like blues or rock also tends to operate within those boundaries) so, fundamentally, Western and Indian music are not different to the point of incompatibility. The big difference is Western music is much, much more evolved in the use of harmony while Indian melody is more intricate.

But it is not as if Western music is fundamentally unmelodic (though it is open minded enough to be so if the required expression calls for it) or Indian music cannot conceptually accommodate harmony. It required Ilayaraja's genius to observe the fertile scope to combine both schools without caricaturing one or the other. He has himself said that when he first heard Bach, he did not consider it a different kind of music. Rather, he could hear swaras even in it (!) and possibly discovered the scope to combine the two with that and other such insights.

Ilayaraja's music is universal in its scope. Maybe our imagination isn't always because it is hampered by cultural, especially linguistic, barriers. But a Westerner would have no problems in embracing Day by Day or Kurangu Kaiyil Maalai (except if he is some anti-jazz type) if all of its lyrics were written in a language he/she understands and preferably also sung by a European. Just as we unquestioningly embrace the complex Western techniques spoonfed to us in folk songs like Kodiyile.

We do not embrace it just because it is Indian. That is a very limiting definition of his work even if it is broadly speaking Indian. No other Indian musician ever visualised such potent possibilities in Indian-Western synthesis and nobody is likely to ever again. We appreciate it because it is genius delivered within a cultural and linguistic framework we are comfortable with. But that doesn't mean all the techniques being employed in that music are Indian or even Indianised. Ilayaraja can treat us to some totally Western music and somehow surmount our resistance to it. I speak from experience as somebody who never really liked Western music and thought a lot of it was noise pollution...until Ilayaraja opened my eyes to what all it could be.

Sorry for the long rant but I did say at the beginning it was going to be one.

CK

Good analysis of 'Western' music and our perception of it.

I am in agreement with your view that rarely, we come across a genius who could not just easily synthesize elements from two different worlds, but also provide it in a way that the listener feels very comfortable as he plays within the overall framework that the listener is fully comfortable with.

Unfortunately, anything Western and Pop are considered equivalent in the Indian mindset. It is extremely hard to reset this. Similarly, to the Western mind, Indian music is very 'improvisational', repetitive and boring. More than Ilayaraja, the West needs a composer who could do the synthesis that Raja has done for us.

crimson king Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:52 am

^^^ One thing I have noticed in that regard is a lot of Western attempts to adapt Indian music tend to go for Hindustani rather than Carnatic. I have sometimes wondered whether they are aware of the existence of a Carnatic school within the broad basket of Indian classical music. They still prefer the mythical image of India as the land of mystics and snake charmers and their approach to adapt Indian elements also proceeds from that direction. They don't realise that Carnatic is more structured and possibly more compatible to synthesis with Western. Likewise, why shouldn't Carnatic musicians also attempt to write harmony for some passages within the exposition? I don't see that the presence of harmony by itself would make it 'not Carnatic' as long as raga development proceeds in its usual direction. It could possibly expand and invigorate the medium. I can't accuse the Western world of not trying to constantly expand and reinvent their music even if they may not be open minded to the possibilities of Indian music.

**V_S** Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:31 am

CK,
Wonderful set of posts the clap

with great insights. Great responses from kiru and Usha ji. Yes I too have that concern that west does not put much efforts to embrace carnatic music, like we openly do. Leave alone embrace, there are hardly a few who listen to our classical music. They kind of approach it with a kind of aversion and prejudice that it will not be good. First thing that comes up in their mind is that they might not understand (lyrics). Who asked them to understand? The listeners are still in a juvenile state of mind. For our sake, they will listen and tell it is good (superficially), but they never go back and analyze what is good, why are they recommending? what is so special?. The main reason is their exposure. They always enjoy going to the beaten path (without realizing it is a beaten path), rather than trying something new, like we do explore what is good in everything. In that way I would say Indians, especially South Indians (even NIs has that habit of not listening anything down south) have the greatest gift of exploring every kind of music and analyzing.

As you said, Western music is a ocean, but my pet theory about IR is he correctly chose Western Classical route in most of his compositions and not contemporary western (except when the situation arises) which is why we see the pureness in the music, which is why he is vastly different from others. Again, he does not give the western classical idiom in a way it is difficult to grasp or understand (just like how he transforms a pure carnatic classical raagam to an outright folk) for the listeners. He kind of continuously changes the parameters so that they we can only sense some classical elements, which I see missing from others. Other main thing I hate about other music directors is they mainly pick contemporary western (pop, rock jazz, blues etc) rather than classical and the way they present it in the exact same format (in main tune too) without altering anything causes the tedium factor, as it again goes to the beaten path. When the same IR does it, for example: vaangum paNathukku (Dhoni) not for a split second we can see it as a complete blues song, as Maestro would have just sprinkled those elements to have that flavor, but cleverly retained 'chennai' folk in it so that it will always be a Raja song and will never cause any tedium going back at it again and again. These are the tricks I look for.

fring151 Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:36 am

crimson king wrote: Likewise, why shouldn't Carnatic musicians also attempt to write harmony for some passages within the exposition? I don't see that the presence of harmony by itself would make it 'not Carnatic' as long as raga development proceeds in its usual direction. It could possibly expand and invigorate the medium.

But there seems to be an entire cottage industry built around this, at least that's the impression I got from the rows and rows of carnatic fusion albums that I saw at Giri traders, Mylapore, last month. I even bought a few. One is a Chitravina Ravikiran album titled Flame of the Forest that also features Anil Srinivasan (https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/flame-forest-chitravena-ravi/id380994339) where the harmonic possibilities of Simhendramadhyam are explored rather interestingly. I know Anil Srinivasan is an IR fan and could sense the influence of "Anandha Raagam" arrangements in a few places. The Krithi "Asaindhadum mayilondru" is tastefully arranged for Chitravina and piano and there is also a piano-only interlude track. V.S.Narasimhan's albums are strikingly unique,demonstrating the possibilities of adapting Carnatic music within a string quartet framework. Also Guitar Prasanna's albums...

I have heard Ravikiran has come up with a concept called "Melharmony", but haven't read much about it. Anyway, hard to completely reinvent any form of music at this point in history - not with the current market and trends. It can only get worse - brace yourselves ladies and gentleman Twisted Evil

crimson king Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:00 am

It's still fusion though and that's the problem. It needs to eventually become a part of the mainstream. And that will not happen as long as they still follow the same old 70s (Shakti/Mahavishnu) pattern of taniavardhanam of Indian followed by Western instruments with some unison sections in the end. Writing harmony for pure Carnatic sections is much more challenging but also a better way to eventually adapt that as a part of Carnatic (rather than compartmentalising it as something separate). Not even counterpoint, just a good harmonic progression that works well with the melody. Since both are 12 tone, there is no reason why it shouldn't work though it may very well put off listeners, especially traditionalists, in the beginning. Western masters ran this risk when they innovated. There was a minor riot when Stravinsky's Riot of Spring sprang out. That is one aspect where I do feel Mr Contrarian has a valid point. I wish our classical musicians were bolder...like Ilayaraja. Wink

As you say though, maybe the time is past for all that. I hope not. Anyway, something new, fresh could at least prolong its life if death is inevitable. Prasanna has made a very worthwhile attempt at carrying forward IR's approach to some extent but he is an independent artist. It should become the main virundhu in Margazhi Mahautsavam.

I have heard about melharmony too, never actually heard work based on it.

Vijay: The way I see it is IR builds music based mainly around classical (that is, as far as the Western aspect goes) and then proceeds to use non classical instruments for classical parts, like electric guitar. As I have said before in another discussion, it is not an unprecedented approach in a global sense. Progressive rock was based on this approach too. That is why there is a lot of depth in IR's approach to integrating Western and Indian. He has achieved it at a conceptual level whereas most attempts by other film music directors was based more on matching pleasing (or jarring!) sounds. Likewise even when IR does 'tamizh jazz', he goes down to the basics, not just something superficially jazz sounding. I lament the lack of openness to Western music in India because that is one of the main reasons why the full import of IR's work is still not widely recognised even after so many years. Probably not ever at this rate. He has the guts to go with something that seems to be conceptually sound to him even if it has no precedent in music and is prepared to leap beyond the boundaries of accepted public tastes. In that sense, he is one of a kind especially in the Indian mileu where innovation is roundly discouraged.

kiru Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:50 am

crimson king wrote:.... Now it seems you are trying to say Mugilo has the qualities that appeal to Indians. We both like the song so you need to just make up your mind now on these trivialities. ....

EnnappA ...unakku sandaI pOda pidikkum pOlirukku :-) I did not say the above .. I said it has the nuances of an 'indian' melody but my theory is most of our audience focus only on the vocal part and miss all the action in the instruments. So that is the reason, I think IR's innovative attempts at creating a format infusing western classical has not found good response with our audience. This is also the reason that other music directors became popular :-)
Anyways, Usha avargaL has conveyed most of my points..you have writtten very nicely about western music .. really like that ..
Re: IR and western classical - I think he never listens to his contemporaries. Probably thinks that is not being honest .. equivalent to plagiarization .. he listens only to the masters of the past. Based on the past he creates his own music. He intends to set the trend than follow it ..
Re: harmony and carnatic - puRanaanooru apparently has references to raagams (paN) that can be sung together as counterpoints.. Unfortunately, I think the last few hundred years because of the political situation in India development of our music took a back seat, I think. It was done mainly as entertainment for the silly warlords.. the trinities are an exception ..I also learn that classical music is just formalized popular music. So I am fine with IR (in the popular music front) leading with innovation. Once, the concept is 'proven' , it can be 'formalzed' and 'finessed'. (in that context, I want to mention that our folk music is not different from classic music.. carnatic music is the music of 'our' land/people .. actually even our north indian brethren are not very different .. they just have more influences from the neighbors) . The swara names are 'new' .. and the tamil names have existed for centuries before then ..the notes were sung as ta ..na ..na and lend itself well for figuring out the metre.

crimson king Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:00 am

kiru wrote:

EnnappA ...unakku sandaI pOda pidikkum pOlirukku :-) I did not say the above .. I said it has the nuances of an 'indian' melody but my theory is most of our audience focus only on the vocal part and miss all the action in the instruments. So that is the reason, I think IR's innovative attempts at creating a format infusing western classical has not found good response with our audience. This is also the reason that other music directors became popular :-)

If that is what you meant, I agree a bit more with that though not entirely. Even Raja's detractors tend to highlight his orchestration skills so I don't think that aspect is missed out by the audience. To rewind back to where we began, my only point is Mugilo is really no more complex than many other songs of his, which have been hits. It is a bit early to judge whether it will remain a not so hit song.

However, one thing that has decisively changed is the emotional flavour of his music these days. It tends to be more subtle, sort of autumnal in a way. Even Oliyile was introspective and delicate, i.e, not typical of his approach to folk. There was a more straight up quality to his melodies in the 80s. That may not necessarily make them 'better' melodies but they were more accessible, catchier. Whether melodies or grooves, a song has to be catchy to be a hit. With a few exceptions like Kalvane, most of IR's work these days is not very catchy. It takes some time, some patient listening to digest. I have no issues with that NOW but I have moved out of a mainly film music oriented taste. I don't think IR should change anything to pander to tastes. If this is what he wants to do now, so be it. But as fans, we have to also accept that maybe its commercial potential is not that high.

crimson king Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:01 am

kiru wrote:

Re: harmony and carnatic - puRanaanooru apparently has references to raagams (paN) that can be sung together as counterpoints.. Unfortunately, I think the last few hundred years because of the political situation in India development of our music took a back seat, I think.

Very interesting. Unfortunate then that, given our lack of documentation, the thread is lost now and the character of Carnatic music as it is today is devoid of harmony.

kiru Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:48 am

Well.. CK.. I enjoyed IR (with VM/BR etc) during my teen years.. so those 80s music have a nostalgic value for me.. But I am more thrilled than before with the direction IR is going post TIS or probably even avathaaram or Guru. I see a more 'bolder' IR in introducing a higher percentage of WCM .. So I am one of those people who like the current music than the 80s..
Re: emotional value and hit potential - You may be right.. age will mellow you a bit and probably reflected in his music. I am getting older as well ..so I tend to travel with him. But with the least bit of musical knowledge I have . I conjecture . that his music is getting technically superior. I only hope our audience understands him a little more and enjoy his innovations (not necessarily technically, but just learn to enjoy it more and completely)
His music is both theoretically strong and emotionally strong as well, which is very rare. V_S posted violin vicky's article on how the chord progresses. I feel IR is writing purely theoretically .. like making up a number series..but probably cross-checking using his aural memory !!! Isn't that amazing.. I really pray he is blessed with good health and a longer life span !!.

crimson king Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:56 am

I also don't think there is any decline in his abilities as a composer. Just that what he is doing may not necessarily coincide with what the public at large wants. I did not intend to use words like subtle or autumnal in a negative light. I think it is interesting that he has ventured into this direction over the years. But my theory is that that kind of autumnal music does not always work so well from a commercial perspective. Not to mention that this subtle change has happened during the same period that audience taste has been spoilt by 'instant' hit music. Ilayaraja is an artist, not just an entertainer, but the public at large is unlikely to understand that. An artist just does what he wants, what his instinct tells him, not what the people are telling him to do.

fring151 Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:16 pm

That he has mellowed down is amply reflected in his compositions. And that is a GOOD THING. Music is an intensely personal outpouring and if one traces a master composer's works over a period of time, one should be able to get an insight into the evolution of a composer's world view, musical philosophy and emotional maturity. And to me, a youth, a reluctant convert from an early IR fan to one who has learnt to appreciate a lot of his output in the mid-late 90s and noughties, this is abundantly evident in a song like "Jeevane" or " Unna vida". This is a master on a journey of his own, unfettered by fans' expectations and committed to pure art like few of his great predecessors or contemporaries. I have no doubt we will be fondly reminiscing about Jeevane or Mugilo many years into the future on this very forum.

crimson king Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:21 pm

fring151 wrote:This is a master on a journey of his own, unfettered by fans' expectations and committed to pure art like few of his great predecessors or contemporaries.

Absolutely. His work in this phase will stand the test of time, probably/hopefully more so than the Ae Atha types that he had to churn out as a matter of obligation. Maybe there won't be millions of fans remembering a Mugilo 20 years down the line but those who have are not likely to forget it.

kiru Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:31 pm

crimson king wrote:I also don't think there is any decline in his abilities as a composer. Just that what he is doing may not necessarily coincide with what the public at large wants. I did not intend to use words like subtle or autumnal in a negative light. I think it is interesting that he has ventured into this direction over the years. But my theory is that that kind of autumnal music does not always work so well from a commercial perspective. Not to mention that this subtle change has happened during the same period that audience taste has been spoilt by 'instant' hit music. Ilayaraja is an artist, not just an entertainer, but the public at large is unlikely to understand that. An artist just does what he wants, what his instinct tells him, not what the people are telling him to do.

I got you. with your knowledge I would not suspect you of saying that. Even 10 or 15 yrs back arularacan on tfmpage.com 'lamented' - why did this man decide to go classy when the trend was in the opposite direction. When kadhalukku mariyadhai came we thought he was taking on the trend, but even after some hits in that style he was back in his pet WCM dominated songs. I have a suspicion now Rahman is also coming in this direction. I think he is feeling that he has not done anything 'challenging' inspite of the enormous commercial success and awards. I think even for Rahman our film music is the 'first language' and our film music always had some WCM roots and no wonder he also wants to work on it.
@fring - you mentioned some thing about precise/mathematical earlier.. actually that is good .. with my CS background I should have that too.. I hope. Note, being exact IS science . IR is a prime embodiment of this as in 'science of music'.

crimson king Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:39 pm

I am not sure ARR will really be able to fully commit himself to that. Right from the days of that old Abdul Hamir interview, he has lamented the fact that hits like Chikku Bukku would influence the taste of kids and not necessarily in a good way. But he loves the fact that they are hits. Razz

I think his craving for recognition is probably much more than IR's. And having been the one to break the old order where music directors strictly dictated what they would write within the given situational parameters, he'll find it very difficult to turn around and say, "Hey, this is what I want to do and it's my way or the highway". Even weasel Murthy strongly emphasised the 'importance' of compromise in that interview which we had discussed earlier.

You mentioned somebody lamenting on TFM. Likewise, I recall somebody commenting on a video of IR giving out instructions for the background score of Naan Kadavul, to the effect that had IR only changed according to public taste, he would have remained king forever. These people just don't understand that that is not his priority. That may have been S A Rajkumar or Rahman's priority but IR just does what he does. It's up to the listeners to step up to it. Sometimes it doesn't work according to each one's individual tastes and that's fine. That's what art is supposed to be like. This "We know what the public wants and we give it" is a delusion that our mass market hitmakers love to believe in.

fring151 Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:44 pm

crimson king wrote:This "We know what the public wants and we give it" is a delusion that our mass market hitmakers love to believe in.

Fact.

fring151 Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:53 pm

kiru wrote:@fring - you mentioned some thing about precise/mathematical earlier.. actually that is good .. with my CS background I should have that too.. I hope. Note, being exact IS science . IR is a prime embodiment of this as in 'science of music'.

A song like "Kanmani nee vara kaathirundhen" is just so mathematically structured, the combination of notes so delicious, such precise vision. I can't help wonder what Raja might have done (had he been so inclined) in the field of combinatorics. Smile

Usha Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:04 pm

V_S and kiru,
Thanks for ur kind words......... indha time il.. app and co ku oru Nandri solli kolgiren. Disturbance illamal.. discussion nadakaradhukaga............ we are very Grateful to U app and co..........

Usha Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:14 pm

If that is what you meant, I agree a bit more with that though not entirely. Even Raja's detractors tend to highlight his orchestration skills so I don't think that aspect is missed out by the audience. To rewind back to where we began, my only point is Mugilo is really no more complex than many other songs of his, which have been hits. It is a bit early to judge whether it will remain a not so hit song.

However, one thing that has decisively changed is the emotional flavour of his music these days. It tends to be more subtle, sort of autumnal in a way. Even Oliyile was introspective and delicate, i.e, not typical of his approach to folk. There was a more straight up quality to his melodies in the 80s. That may not necessarily make them 'better' melodies but they were more accessible, catchier. Whether melodies or grooves, a song has to be catchy to be a hit. With a few exceptions like Kalvane, most of IR's work these days is not very catchy. It takes some time, some patient listening to digest. I have no issues with that NOW but I have moved out of a mainly film music oriented taste. I don't think IR should change anything to pander to tastes. If this is what he wants to do now, so be it. But as fans, we have to also accept that maybe its commercial potential is not that high.[/quote]

ck,

IR Folk... avar correct aga than irukar.... India vin Gramam.. ipo irukum situation.. avangaloda arivu.. asai . feelings nu IR
romba gavanama than irukar.. adhanala dhan ipadi oru paatu.......

2000 la vandha oru padam.. Thirunelveli. kandipa hit ilai.. ana indha paatai kelunga.. Unmai irukum.. adhu IR............ music... um dhan.. 80s Village ipo ilai....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAOg535PGOY

one more film.. karakatakari..
paatai kaetadhum... unmaiyil enaku pidikavillai dhan.. reason.. 80s madhirii nenachuten.. ana
kalam enna .. enna nadakaradhu nu gavanichu parthen.. IR is correct.........

Usha Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:19 pm

ck,
commercial potential... indha idea asai epavum Raja ku kedaiyadhu.......... 80s hit achu na.. hit achu... adhuku nu IR onum special a seiyalai.. adhae sincerity la ipavum irukar.. idhu dhan true...........

ipo irukum kalam.. keduthal elllam nalla market aradhu... adhukaga adhu sari aguma enna.............

crimson king Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:21 pm

Exactly. As IR loves to tell Balki, "Don't blame me". Ok, he did fast/kuthu songs with a little more enthu at that time (and that probably helped commercially speaking) but it's natural that somebody would get tired of working in that genre again and again and again.

kiru Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:22 pm

I am supposed to be staying up late and working..but this is interesting stuff :-)
Rahman had a vision, he executed on it and has been wildly successful. But I wouldn't say his vision is in the domain of 'purely music'. He wanted to change the 'sound' and so it included 'sound engineering'. He wanted freshness of different genres .. he brought in collaborators changing the 'production model'. Contrast this with IR's primary goal - to do music with an orchestra. When given an opportunity to do film music, he cannot bring in just his personal desire. So he slowly sensitizes the audiences with increasing dose of orchestral music. He is constantly learning and perfecting his techniques. From his point of view, he is not 'done' yet .. he is not BSing .. it is true. So there is always room for growth for him..
Rahman has 'achieved' his goals .. he is now 'searching' for new ones.. Yes, IR has not achieved his goals.. but in striving to achieve it .. he will leave us with a fantastic body of work ..

Usha Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:26 pm

Nejam dhan....... ana IR ku edhuvum bore ilai ck.. plan panni than music panrar..

oru Teacher madhirii... 10 years ku oru Syllabus... tats all... adhil first 2 years.. Sound ku nammai pazhakuvar.. puriya vaipar.. adutha 3 years ku.. syllabus konjam adhigamakkuvar.. Means. Interludes.... konjam adhigiamga irukum... naam purindhu
kondu vittom endru therindhadhum... Full syllabus dhan adutha 5 years ku.. Means.. Heavy interludes...............

ana idhu puriyamal.. IR ku theiryadha madhiiiri.. konjamaga interludes.. yeno nu solla kudadhu..avar seiyara ellam.. Fans namakaga than....... Nammai medhuvaga improve seiyavar.. avaroda Syllabus ku..... adhu dhanae IR..

Usha Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:32 pm

kiru wrote:I am supposed to be staying up late and working..but this is interesting stuff :-)
Rahman had a vision, he executed on it and has been wildly successful. But I wouldn't say his vision is in the domain of 'purely music'. He wanted to change the 'sound' and so it included 'sound engineering'. He wanted freshness of different genres .. he brought in collaborators changing the 'production model'. Contrast this with IR's primary goal - to do music with an orchestra. When given an opportunity to do film music, he cannot bring in just his personal desire. So he slowly sensitizes the audiences with increasing dose of orchestral music. He is constantly learning and perfecting his techniques. From his point of view, he is not 'done' yet .. he is not BSing .. it is true. So there is always room for growth for him..
Rahman has 'achieved' his goals .. he is now 'searching' for new ones.. Yes, IR has not achieved his goals.. but in striving to achieve it .. he will leave us with a fantastic body of work ..

kiru,
konjam munnadi vera oru thread la sonnen........

sondhama factory vechu nadatharadhu........ Dealer aga irundhu.. sale panradhu..............

enna trend aga irundhalum.. Sondhamaga Factory vechu nadatharadhae oru Gethu dhan ipo irukara kalathil.adhukaga konjam collobaration venum dhan.. indha kalathil.. adhukaga namma identity ai izhaka vendiya avasiyam ilai.. adhu oru Freedom....
adhu Dealer ku irukadhu.. avangaluku epavum oru pressure irukum..... adhula thanmanathuku idam ilai.............

crimson king Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:35 pm

Also, in the 80s it would have been more logistically difficult to collaborate with a formal symphony orchestra from abroad for films. India was not on the world map; the rest of the world woke up to the potential after 1991 (and maybe they want to go back to what they were doing earlier Rolling Eyes

but that's another thread). After getting the Maestro title, he may have also felt more confident of approaching an European orchestra to work with him. Lot of things had to fall in place. In today's recessionary times they will play for anyone, that's another matter. But at that time they could have sneered on the idea of some Indian music director asking to work with them. In my Nothing But Wind CD jacket (I think that's where I read), it says that IR would love to collaborate with any open minded orchestra. So he may have had the thought for a long time but taken longer to actually execute it. He also had to first explore the idea of somewhat more Westernised songs within our films and see whether, well, at least the directors would pass it. Hit-ellam later. Padi-padiya, All The Time, Day by Day, the idea may have taken seed and by Guru he was ready to write some seriously bombastic music for a full album's length.

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