Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

By the way,  I don't completely agree with the "Ilayaraja was in his acoustic world" assumption in that book and which is oft repeated.  He did use synth tones for effect even before ARR arrived on the scene with Roja, e.g. that riff in Pottu Vaitha Kadhal Thitam.  In fact by early 90s, he had begun to use 'house' beats rather than his earlier rock/pop beats in many songs.  Innum Ennai Enna Saiyya from the same film.  But he was very insistent on presenting a Tamizh flavour in his music at that time.  Whatever the influences, at the core the music retained a strong Indian-ness in the way the vocal melodies were treated or, especially, the enunciation.  Remarkably he has allowed/encouraged Ramya NSK to pronounce Tamil in an anglicized way now which is probably why some of the familiar IR detractors like R Vijay jumped to claim he was copying Chandralekha.

crimson king wrote:

Yeah, I didn't mean that he succeeded because of smart positioning, though I wrote something about how good he is at that.  As I said and which you have expressed in different words, he seems to have been very perceptive.  He clearly understood it would take nothing short of a totally different sound and style from what the audience was used to and what IR himself favoured.  And yes, he had the talent as well as the ambition and hunger to actually achieve it.  If somebody like SAR thought they could beat IR with 'that one tune', it shows their thinking in a narrow light.  ARR understood how versatile IR was and that only a complete change in musical philosophy would help him win over the audience.

hahahaha!!! Really nailed it about SAR :-D

But crimson King and drunken monk... i agree with your points. I also can see why ARR might have felt like branching out on his own and bringing about a paradigm shift and all. That he had talent and ambition is now known to all. Also the fact that he grew up worshipping western (not necessarily WCM) artists more.. like Pink Floyd, Peter Gabriel.. or even Michael Jackson.. There is an interesting radio interview of Late H.Sridhar (Rahman's sound engineer, who passed away after Slumdog Millionaire), where he shares about what interested Rahman in those days. He was clearly very ambitious, about bringing in a whole new musical vocabulary, be it from his personal taste or influences or whatever. and I think it is good. I liked/like Raaja's output of early 90s, but I also think that it was/is really important that someone challenged him, which in turn made Raaja also conscious about certain choices and modelled his 90s output in a different manner (though innate styles and signatures remain). 

Come to think of it, Keeravani (in telugu) came before ARR and he didn't have such a philosophy (or tenacity) to change the order.

Well...it was a 'new sound' and very 'modern' by Rahman.. but if you look closely every new big MD has introduced a new sound.. Even IR's was 'new sound' compared to MSV's. When we were young, we did identify IR as the 'modern' MD. NinaivellAm nithya or enakkuL oruvan or raajapaarvai or tik tik tik were are all very stylish. IR has been keeping up with music trends for sure (eg. disco). But the advantage for Rahman was - he did not only use the new beats but also the exact same sound as in english pop. Actually, I think some songs of Rahman even had the rhythm 'ripped' from english songs. For people listening to english pop, Rahman's sonic signature was very familiar and subsequently identified as the 'in' sound. Anyways, by that time, IR has gone into the 'orchestral' genre - avathaaram, desiya geetham etc so the rhythms did not matter much. That he went in the right direction is also supported by the fact that Rahman himself talks a lot about western classical music these days :-) He even blames the youth for listening to dance and hip-hop !!! (I cant believe this dude) ..

Read this rather interesting take on ARR's form of music w.r.t Sufiana and writing on IR's w.r.t Hindu gnaana marabu: http://pirapanjakkudil.blogspot.in/2012/03/blog-post_18.html

Especially this part:

author wrote: எப்படி இளையராஜா இசையமைக்கும் பாடல்களின் இசையிலும் சரி வரிகளிலும் சரி, இந்து ஞான மரபின் தாக்கம் அதிகமோ அதைப்போல் ஏ.ஆர்.ரஹ்மானின் பாடல்களில் சூஃபித்துவத் தாக்கம் அதிகம். ஆனால் அதற்கான களம் தமிழ் மொழியில் விரிவாக இல்லை. தமிழ்ச் சொற்களின் குறியீடுகளில் இந்து ஞான மரபைக் கொண்டுவருவது போல் இலகுவாக சூஃபி மரபைக் கொண்டுவர முடியாது. கொண்டு வந்தாலும் அவை பொதுவாகவோ அல்லது இந்து ஞான மரபாகவோ தோற்றமளிக்குமே தவிர சூஃபி மரபு என்று வெளி அடையாளம் பெறுவது கடினம். (மஸ்தான் சாகிபின் பாடல்களில் காண்பது போல.) இதை இன்னொரு விதத்தில் விளக்குகிறேன். இளையராஜா இசையமைத்து, வாலி எழுதிய இந்தப் பாடல்களைப் பாருங்கள்: “ஓம் நமஹ உருகும் உயிருக்கு ஓம் நமஹ”, “மலைக்கோயில் வாசலில் கார்த்திகை தீபம் மின்னுதே..”, “சந்தன மார்பிலே குங்குமம் சேர்ந்ததே.. ஓம் மதி ஓம் மதி.. மங்கள நேரமே இங்கொரு யாகமே... நாதங்கள் சாட்சி வேதங்கள் சாட்சி ஓம்” – இவை காதல் பாடல்கள்! இளையராஜாவின் இசையிலும்கூட சங்கு, மணி, கிண்கிணி, மத்தளம், நாயனம் போன்ற கருவிகள் தனித்துவத்துடன் ஒலிப்பதைக் கேட்கலாம். ‘மத்தளம் கொட்ட வசிச்சங்கம் நின்றூத’ என்று ஆண்டாள் பாடும் வருணனை போல் இருக்கும். காதல் பாடல்களைப் பக்திக் குறியீடுகளுடன் தந்து காதலை/ காமத்தை ஆன்மிக நிலையில் வெளிப்படுத்தியது இளையராஜாவின் சாதனைகளில் ஒன்று என்று சொல்லலாம். (இப்பாடல்களின் காட்சியமைப்புகள் பற்றி யாமறியோம் பராபரமே!) இதற்கு இந்து ஞான மரபில், வைணவத்தில் ஆண்டாளிடமும், சைவத்தில் மாணிக்கவாசகரிடமும் முன்மாதிரிகளைக் காணமுடியும். (இளையராஜாவும் ஒரு பாவை நூல் எழுதியிருக்கிறார்.)

இளையராஜாவால் ஏன் இந்தியில் சாதிக்க முடியவில்லை என்பதற்கும் இக்கருத்திலேயே விடை இருக்கிறது. வைணவத்தில் இங்கே வடகலையும் தென்கலையும் உண்டு. வடநாட்டு சைவம் வேறு தென்னாட்டின் சைவ சித்தாந்தம் வேறு. காடுகிழாளாய் இருந்த கொற்றவை பிற்பாடு சைவத்தால் உள்வாங்கப்பட்டுப் பார்வதியாக உருமாற்றப்பட்டதுடன் சிவனுக்கு அடுத்தபடியாக வைக்கப்பட்டாள், அவளின் தனித்தன்மையான அடையாளங்கள் அவனுக்கு மாற்றப்பட்டன, கண்ணுதலாள் என்பது கண்ணுதலான் என்று மாற்றப்பட்டது என்பன போன்ற கருத்துக்களைத் தமிழறிஞர் குணா ஆராய்ந்து சொல்லியிருக்கிறார் (நூல்: ’சக்கரவாளக் கோட்டம்’.) இந்த மாற்றத்தை இளையராஜாவின் ஆளுமையில் காணமுடியும் (பண்ணைபுரம் முதல் திருவண்ணாமலை வரை!) இளையராஜாவின் இசை மெல்ல மெல்ல சைவ சித்தாந்தத்தில் வேர் பிடித்துவிட்ட ஒன்று என்று சொன்னால் அது மிகையல்ல.

ஏ.ஆர்.ரஹ்மான் தன் இயக்கத்தைத் தமிழில் குறைத்துக் கொண்டு ஹிந்தியில் அதிகமாக்கிக் கொண்டதற்கும் தமிழின் இந்தப் பின்னணிதான் காரணம்.

Very interesting take, no doubt. But regarding his reason for Raaja not making a mark in Hindi, I don't totally agree it is due to the difference in the religious philosophies in the North and South. He can make a song sound absolutely North Indian bhajan-ish, remarkably getting their nativity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03vb9dkBAB4 and use the very same tune on Thiruvannamalai in Tamil without losing anything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3CMTDixzHU. I'd believe 80s Hindi music sensibilities hit the rock bottom more than IR not making a mark there due to difference in the philosophies. Again, I'll go back to Mahaadev and Dilwaale Raat and to Paa and Mudhi Mudhi to point that Raaja can sound incredibly like contemporary Bollywood and also be musically virtuous. I've also read a tiff between IR and Ramesh Sippy and that put paid to IR's chances in the North. Not sure how much of it is right though it is more a combination of factors than just something like difference in philosophical sensibilities which I don't entirely buy as Raaja's music has in it the virtuosity to cross any bridge.

DrunkenmunkRead this rather interesting take on ARR's form of music w.r.t Sufiana and writing on IR's w.r.t Hindu gnaana marabu: http://pirapanjakkudil.blogspot.in/2012/03/blog-post_18.html

Especially this part:

author wrote: எப்படி இளையராஜா இசையமைக்கும் பாடல்களின் இசையிலும் சரி வரிகளிலும் சரி, இந்து ஞான மரபின் தாக்கம் அதிகமோ அதைப்போல் ஏ.ஆர்.ரஹ்மானின் பாடல்களில் சூஃபித்துவத் தாக்கம் அதிகம். ஆனால் அதற்கான களம் தமிழ் மொழியில் விரிவாக இல்லை. தமிழ்ச் சொற்களின் குறியீடுகளில் இந்து ஞான மரபைக் கொண்டுவருவது போல் இலகுவாக சூஃபி மரபைக் கொண்டுவர முடியாது. கொண்டு வந்தாலும் அவை பொதுவாகவோ அல்லது இந்து ஞான மரபாகவோ தோற்றமளிக்குமே தவிர சூஃபி மரபு என்று வெளி அடையாளம் பெறுவது கடினம். (மஸ்தான் சாகிபின் பாடல்களில் காண்பது போல.) இதை இன்னொரு விதத்தில் விளக்குகிறேன். இளையராஜா இசையமைத்து, வாலி எழுதிய இந்தப் பாடல்களைப் பாருங்கள்: “ஓம் நமஹ உருகும் உயிருக்கு ஓம் நமஹ”, “மலைக்கோயில் வாசலில் கார்த்திகை தீபம் மின்னுதே..”, “சந்தன மார்பிலே குங்குமம் சேர்ந்ததே.. ஓம் மதி ஓம் மதி.. மங்கள நேரமே இங்கொரு யாகமே... நாதங்கள் சாட்சி வேதங்கள் சாட்சி ஓம்” – இவை காதல் பாடல்கள்! இளையராஜாவின் இசையிலும்கூட சங்கு, மணி, கிண்கிணி, மத்தளம், நாயனம் போன்ற கருவிகள் தனித்துவத்துடன் ஒலிப்பதைக் கேட்கலாம். ‘மத்தளம் கொட்ட வசிச்சங்கம் நின்றூத’ என்று ஆண்டாள் பாடும் வருணனை போல் இருக்கும். காதல் பாடல்களைப் பக்திக் குறியீடுகளுடன் தந்து காதலை/ காமத்தை ஆன்மிக நிலையில் வெளிப்படுத்தியது இளையராஜாவின் சாதனைகளில் ஒன்று என்று சொல்லலாம். (இப்பாடல்களின் காட்சியமைப்புகள் பற்றி யாமறியோம் பராபரமே!) இதற்கு இந்து ஞான மரபில், வைணவத்தில் ஆண்டாளிடமும், சைவத்தில் மாணிக்கவாசகரிடமும் முன்மாதிரிகளைக் காணமுடியும். (இளையராஜாவும் ஒரு பாவை நூல் எழுதியிருக்கிறார்.)

இளையராஜாவால் ஏன் இந்தியில் சாதிக்க முடியவில்லை என்பதற்கும் இக்கருத்திலேயே விடை இருக்கிறது. வைணவத்தில் இங்கே வடகலையும் தென்கலையும் உண்டு. வடநாட்டு சைவம் வேறு தென்னாட்டின் சைவ சித்தாந்தம் வேறு. காடுகிழாளாய் இருந்த கொற்றவை பிற்பாடு சைவத்தால் உள்வாங்கப்பட்டுப் பார்வதியாக உருமாற்றப்பட்டதுடன் சிவனுக்கு அடுத்தபடியாக வைக்கப்பட்டாள், அவளின் தனித்தன்மையான அடையாளங்கள் அவனுக்கு மாற்றப்பட்டன, கண்ணுதலாள் என்பது கண்ணுதலான் என்று மாற்றப்பட்டது என்பன போன்ற கருத்துக்களைத் தமிழறிஞர் குணா ஆராய்ந்து சொல்லியிருக்கிறார் (நூல்: ’சக்கரவாளக் கோட்டம்’.) இந்த மாற்றத்தை இளையராஜாவின் ஆளுமையில் காணமுடியும் (பண்ணைபுரம் முதல் திருவண்ணாமலை வரை!) இளையராஜாவின் இசை மெல்ல மெல்ல சைவ சித்தாந்தத்தில் வேர் பிடித்துவிட்ட ஒன்று என்று சொன்னால் அது மிகையல்ல.

ஏ.ஆர்.ரஹ்மான் தன் இயக்கத்தைத் தமிழில் குறைத்துக் கொண்டு ஹிந்தியில் அதிகமாக்கிக் கொண்டதற்கும் தமிழின் இந்தப் பின்னணிதான் காரணம்.

I've also read a tiff between IR and Ramesh Sippy and that put paid to IR's chances in the North. Not sure how much of it is right .

What is this about? I never heard about this.

Also, when Raaja was given National Award for best background score for Pazhassi Raja, Sippy was the head of the Jury (i think).

kamalaakarsh wrote:

What is this about? I never heard about this.

Also, when Raaja was given National Award for best background score for Pazhassi Raja, Sippy was the head of the Jury (i think).

No idea. Hearsay hence not sure as I've mentioned there. Maybe people who followed the scene closely in the 80s can shed light if there really was a fight or if Hindi just didn't look to Raaja.

kiru wrote:Well...it was a 'new sound' and very 'modern' by Rahman.. but if you look closely every new big MD has introduced a new sound.. Even IR's was 'new sound' compared to MSV's. When we were young, we did identify IR as the 'modern' MD. NinaivellAm nithya or enakkuL oruvan or raajapaarvai or tik tik tik were are all very stylish. IR has been keeping up with music trends for sure (eg. disco). But the advantage for Rahman was - he did not only use the new beats but also the exact same sound as in english pop. Actually, I think some songs of Rahman even had the rhythm 'ripped' from english songs. For people listening to english pop, Rahman's sonic signature was very familiar and subsequently identified as the 'in' sound. Anyways, by that time, IR has gone into the 'orchestral' genre - avathaaram, desiya geetham etc so the rhythms did not matter much. That he went in the right direction is also supported by the fact that Rahman himself talks a lot about western classical music these days :-) He even blames the youth for listening to dance and hip-hop !!! (I cant believe this dude) ..

Even in an old interview with Abdul Hamir in around 94-95, ARR said he regretted that kids would grow up listening to Chikku Bukku and their tastes would be influenced by it.  But of course he is the consummate businessman and will give the music that the 'movie demands'.  Not that I blame him for that; you can catch IR telling BC that he doesn't really enjoy composing BGM for stunt scenes but has to do it anyway.  Maybe it's got to a point today where even ARR finds it difficult to digest and dumb down to that level, sort of like what RDB went through in the 80s.  

As for the new sound, BRangan said it well that the question people had by the end of the 80s was what would ANYBODY do in Tamil music after IR because he very quickly covered so much ground and left no niche - seemingly - unexplored.  Give or take the folk element, IR didn't try to drastically drift from the melodic core of MSV's music.  Instead he expanded upon it, enriched it with brilliant Western orchestration.  ARR's approach was not to expand rather than to change the whole philosophy from melody and structure to sound and feel.  While those tones per se are not all that new truly speaking as you say (only new for Indian audience), ARR showed a lot of skill in how he adapted it to film music.  Nobody else really did it with that much conviction in the 90s.  Rahman's detractors love to talk about how the beats of Pudhu Vellai Mazhai are almost identical to Vangelis's Chariots of Fire but he also shows a fine perception of that KIND of music, i.e., electronic, ambient.  Now, IR has composed so much that for all I know he may have pulled off a Mike Olfield somewhere in his deep discography.  But his general approach when it comes to synth/electronic seems to take more after loopy German electronic music like Kraftwerk or Tangerine Dream.  ARR tapped into the more lush, expansive approach to electronic or new age music that Olfield (not really electronic but Tubular Bells is very influential for that kind of music) or Brian Eno had done.  While ARR did not really replace IR except as the new top commercially successful composer, imo he had a harder act to follow compared to IR as MSV's successor. IR left no stone unturned and yet ARR found a way.

@kamaalakarsh:

Yes.  With my abundant respect for IR saar, I still feel some choices like the very monotonous and loud drums on Konji Konji smack of some measure of fatigue or disinterest.  I know saying that could get people up in arms so let me add that I do like that song very much in spite of that.  But it is uncharacteristic of him to leave loose ends unattended in a song.  I agree with you, that competition/challenge ultimately had a healthy effect on him musically.

Getting back to his routine activities it seems

இந்த  புத்தாண்டு அன்று வரமுடியாமல்போனதால் இன்று கிரிவலம் வர வந்துள்ளேன். நான் அமிதாபச்சன் நடிக்கும் படம் ஒன்றுக்கு இசை அமைக்க உள்ளதால் இன்று இரவு கிரிவலம் சென்றுவிட்டு சென்னை திரும்ப உள்ளேன்" என்று கூறினார்.

Is that the one by Balki?

Mridhangam artist who is Music academy award winner gives interview

Arun Prakash wrote:
Every musician has a mass element and a class element. One can strike the balance between bhakti sangeet and art music. And it is possible to make people listen to what you want to give them. Here I won’t hesitate to quote the example of Ilayaraja, who gave class to the mass(es)”

Vasanthamani, yet another MD

My first film was Madavanum Malarvizhiyum. I was an assistant to maestro Ilayaraja and have worked with music director Sirpy. I worked hard and composed more than 50 tunes for the movie and director Aandal Ramesh selected the five best from among them. I’ve been receiving a good response to my songs.

@CK - agree on your take on Rahman's skills and achievement. Re: Tubular Bells - I have the album ..every audiophile has it to demo their system :-) But I dont think I enjoy it that much. There is ambience in IR's music - it is his own view on ambience, evolved from basic american folk/rock. It is silly or too much a waste of time for him to listen to contemporary musicians and model the sounds after it. He just creates his own sound. He is 'ruthlessly' original. That is the reason, we many not like some of his output. It is easier to be successful, when you have have already heard some sound and use it to create a new melody over it. Whereas, I dont think IR has an idea on how the song is going to turn out. The orchestration is all written and the sound is only in his head.
RE: electronica - I dont think he has any interest in electronica ..much of those were introduced by KR ..sort of 'let me help dad to compete with Rahman ' .. I dont think IR liked it very much. He is back to his own interests (orchestral).
(BTW, I dont like konji konji - IR swings to extremes - you never know what you are going to get when you go to him)

kiru wrote:@CK - agree on your take on Rahman's skills and achievement. Re: Tubular Bells - I have the album ..every audiophile has it to demo their system :-) But I dont think I enjoy it that much. There is ambience in IR's music - it is his own view on ambience, evolved from basic american folk/rock. It is silly or too much a waste of time for him to listen to contemporary musicians and model the sounds after it. He just creates his own sound. He is 'ruthlessly' original. That is the reason, we many not like some of his output. It is easier to be successful, when you have have already heard some sound and use it to create a new melody over it.  Whereas, I dont think IR has an idea on how the song is going to turn out. The orchestration is all written and the sound is only in his head.
RE: electronica - I dont think he has any interest in electronica ..much of those were introduced by KR ..sort of 'let me help dad to compete with Rahman ' .. I dont think IR liked it very much. He is back to his own interests (orchestral).
(BTW, I dont like konji konji - IR swings to extremes - you never know what you are going to get when you go to him)

I don't really like Tubular Bells either or that general approach. I think it is a hard one for IR fans (or the man himself) to embrace.    It's quite possible that the electronica element was also at KR's instigation.  I think IR has nothing against using synths in interludes or as accompaniment but not any further than that.  I do like some of Steve Hackett's work in a sort-of ambient approach but then he was a guitarist and the emotions expressed by his beautiful vibrato probably had a lot to do it.  Oh, and also Radiohead's Kid A, again that is based more on Krautrock which is what I prefer as opposed to new age.

Quick trivia question: what's the name of that foreign actress in nadodi thendral? Been listening to kadhal paatu dhan and loving malgudi shubha's rendition. Hard to reconcile that singer with the annoying super singer judge I am familiar with!

If you have a FB account, consider joining this group. This person posts non-Tamil Raja songs on a regular basis. Seems to be a knowledgeable person. Don't have an idea who he is.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/southernking/

S.Suresh

crimson king wrote:@kamaalakarsh:

Yes.  With my abundant respect for IR saar, I still feel some choices like the very monotonous and loud drums on Konji Konji smack of some measure of fatigue or disinterest.  I know saying that could get people up in arms so let me add that I do like that song very much in spite of that.  But it is uncharacteristic of him to leave loose ends unattended in a song.  I agree with you, that competition/challenge ultimately had a healthy effect on him musically.

CK,

Even I have immense respect for his work/talent and approach. He is the best, for me. However, I too feel that the film industry or the audience (or at least I) really needed a ARR (or anyone else distinctly fresh) at that point of time. Despite giving some extraordinary gems in 92-93-94-95-96 period, I feel that there was a lot of monotony in Raaja's music in those years (there was some amount of variety as well and some phenomenal songs came, which I rate among his best... but still, the proportion was largely lopsided). I deduced this recently when I started listening to all the albums, alphabetically, in 92-93-94-95-96 period. Of course, in each year there are at least 15-20 nice (nice, to me) songs but digging those 15 out of 130 songs (avg of 30 films per year multiplied by avg. of 4-5 songs per film) was quite a task. I can see why those 15 songs somehow never made it to the charts, as much as 80s raaja output did. because they were drowned between those remaining 100 songs on one side and the new ARR output on the other. And mind you, it is now, after lot of revisiting and evolved (compartively) musical taste/preferences that I got to pick about 15 songs per year. If I were in Tamil Nadu back then, I would have probably picked just 5-6 (who knows), given those times and my peanut-sized brain (immaturity). In effect, the large chunk which still does not impress me.. thats because of the monotony. For example: The same old village folk songs which start with chorus yelling a "Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" and a ear-splitting percussion instrument and all. I discovered so many of such songs/albums between 92-96 period that it bored me. Of course, some fantastic albums like Kolangal too happened. But like I said, they were on and off. So i really feel that it was time someone came and challenged with some new order. Now when I look back, i feel ARR came at the right time.. and good that he came with paradigm shift. Like i said, it really pushed Raaja also to try something different, within his frameworks.

^^^ Definitely, that flood of output works against him in the final analysis as people end up remembering only some well recognised masterpieces.  It hit a crescendo in the early 90s, from roughly 92 beginning to 93 end, he scored nearly 100 movies or something like that!  Especially the proliferation of formulaic Ramaraj/Prabhu movies didn't help his cause.  There are some beautiful numbers in those albums but you have to get past a sense of fatigue at first. It applies even to some of his 80s work. I didn't really dig Velli Kolusu Mani the first time I heard it, thought it was an ok song.  When I heard it much later, I really loved it.  As you say, this is in spite of not actually living through the 80s/early 90s.  Some people who lived through the 80s ended up missing gems like Ennathan Sugamo. Over a period of time, ARR's arrival seems to have made him more selective about the work he takes up (see Cheeni Kum interview).  I was introduced to his music via Singaravelan.  In about a couple of years, that kind of infectious, boisterous music became relatively hard to come by in his soundtracks.  But he began to do a lot of introspective stuff that didn't necessarily thrill the audience so much at the time of release but has remained memorable for longer compared to what some of his peers were doing.  Elangathu Veesuthe is still played once in a while on TV and regularly performed in those reality shows.  How often do we hear relatively disposable (but more popular at that time) songs like Un Samayal Araiyil in comparison? Ditto Thendral Vandhu Thoongum v/s Oru Mani Adithal?

In a nutshell, and taking off from kiru's point about IR going for heavy orchestra more over the years, he has gradually changed from a Shankar Jaikishan equivalent (or super equivalent I should say) to a Naushad equivalent. While the speed of churning out songs remains incredibly quick, the tone of his music has gradually become more reflective like the latter of those Hindi stalwarts.

You guys are digging up memories of ARR appreciative comments in tfmpage more than 15-20 years ago. Mind you these appreciation were from senior people (Udhaya, Srikanth etc). Only the bass guitar Srinath, was always pro IR. Major dings against IR were - predictable sandhams - one person even said, if he hears the pallavi of IR, he can tell the charanam, lack of variations in rhythm, same old arrangements/instruments (tabla/flute/strings), bad choice of lyrics (this was a major issue - vairamuthu's contribution was considered a major plus for Rahman) etc. Actually, even Rahman refers to the 'formulaic' music at that time. In my own opinion, I think, at one point of time, IR took it up as a challenge to 'pull' as many tunes out of a raagam, orchestration was pretty much standard (see Rahman's formula comment) - (for eg. the second part of a charanam is always set higher and backed by strings in so many songs). Later, IR himself, in one interview said, "you will hear fresh music from me now on". As Kamal say, when you are unchallenged you go on a track for ever.
But I am very happy where we are today - NEPV, Megha, OAK etc. I hope mEgha gets released and is successful and more such albums come out. It might be that Balki's film might be mEgha -II or something.

^^  As it is, IR, having hit upon one template in a song, likes to explore it in a few different ways.  His 80s fast songs starting from Vaanile Thenila were set to the same beat - Oho Megam Vandhadho, Rojapoo Adivanthathu, Kaalakaalamaga, Athadi Yammadi, Vanna Poongavanam.  All of these songs have superb orchestration but from an audience point of view it is possible they induced a sense of monotony.  Mid 80s onwards up to early 90s was probably the zenith of his commercial domination and with films being made almost solely to exploit his pull over the masses, it is natural that everything else began to take a backseat. I don't think people should only rail at IR for this, though, because I don't see how anybody else in his place would have handled it differently.  If anything, they may have sought to exploit their name to sell mediocrity while IR valued his trademark and attempted to find space for innovation even in the sea of mediocre films. 

I have read an extreme view in a comment on ravinat's blog saying IR as a genius was finished after 1985.  Some of my favourite soundtracks of his are after 1985 - Mouna Raagam, Agni, Kadalora Kavithaigal, Amman Koil, Dhalapathi, Puthu Puthu Arthangal,etc.  But from a listener's point of view, all it may take is one or two disappointing soundtracks in quick succession to create the impression that the artist is off his peak (which is what happened on a much larger scale in the 90s).  I can totally relate to why ARR insists that only the best music ought to leave the studio because he is very anxious about the perception of his music among the audience.  But I just don't think it is a very honest approach to ART.  The artist should just put it out there and see what happens, hope for a favourable response but not try to somehow ensure it.  That is why we have now come to this curious juncture where the much older IR is experimenting more than ARR.  Although some HCIRFs might insist that that was the case even in the 90s, it was at least not so obvious at that time because every ARR film, seemingly, had something new to offer and was approached with a lot of excitement. It was a journey of discovery whereas now it is more of consumption of something that the audience is already comfortable with.

crimson king wrote:Although some HCIRFs might insist that that was the case even in the 90s, it was at least not so obvious at that time because every ARR film, seemingly, had something new to offer and was approached with a lot of excitement.

Between 93 and 2000, ARR was consistently averaging 3-4 great albums and 5-10 brilliant songs a year. From Kamalaakarsh's stats, it is clear that IR's strike rate was much lower even though he continued to deliver about the same or higher number of good songs every year, particularly in the mid 90s as is borne out by Raaga_Suresh's fantastic analysis in the other thread. So, yes, it is fair to say that the volume of output worked against him and led to songs like "Nilladha veNNila" being ignored. The unusually large number of monotonous songs in this period could be due to lack of inspiration, boredom or fatigue. I also remember reading an opinion by someone in the hub (was it Jaiganesh) that the symphony experience possibly took something out of him.

Major dings against IR were - predictable sandhams - one person even said, if he hears the pallavi of IR, he can tell the charanam, lack of variations in rhythm,

And I present pAttu pAdavA. 

if he hears the pallavi of IR, he can tell the charanam

I don't think anyone who hears "Poongaatrile" or "Nil Nil Nil" from PP for the first time can guess the course charted by the charanam.

 lack of variations in rhythm

Iniya gAnam.

same old arrangements/instruments (tabla/flute/strings)

Guru, ladies and gentlemen. Even today, it is considered a seminal soundtrack by Mallu music lovers.

To repeat, the problem is more one of separating the gems from the pebbles and not a lack of gems. Also, with due respect to all those musicians you mentioned, in hindsight, some of their criticisms may safely be discarded as excited reactions to the arrival of the new kid on the block.

Plus, the gems like Nil Nil Nil got tucked away in flop films in the mid 90s and onwards.  Earlier they were spotlighted in successful films. What work he did with those A listers whose favour he still enjoyed like Faazil didn't really touch the heights of a Paatu Paadava.  Added to that the unreasonable expectations his fans have of him.  I remember at the time Oru Naal Oru Kanavu released, sureshkumar lamented that even if one supposed Enna Paatu Vendum was fusion it could not match the brilliance of Ninnu Korri.  Now I don't really like Enna Paatu but what is the need to compare it with Ninnu Korri.  Why don't reviewers compare HJ or GVP's half baked confusion attempts with Ninnu Korri then.  Why consider disposable commercial music as 'superb' or 'soothing' when it comes to lesser MDs.

IR's Music =  is like a Manufacturing Company............ Own Creation........... Clean and Neat.. Award winner in Quality Control.............

other's music  =  to sell the product of others.......... and get the benefits........

Usha wrote:IR's Music =  is like a Manufacturing Company............ Own Creation........... Clean and Neat.. Award winner in Quality Control.............

other's music  =  to sell the product of others.......... and get the benefits........

Exactly ..correct'a sonneenga .. the freshness we all gaga over is just 'imported' .. only the tunes are indian .. the whole sound is already there in songs released in the US/Europe.
IR's recipe calls for cooking from basic ingredients (not pre-made mixes or flavoring agents) .. It takes a while to perfect the recipe and some recipes you may not like.
Re: paattu paadava - I also heard it only recently ..very synth driven - poongaRRilE sounded like a Rahman song .. nil nil nil had too much 'chorus' effect for me ..
So that is what I mean .. the man tries to create things from scartch .. he reaches great heights at times but fails at times.. others are playing it safe .. but on originality they will be nowhere close to the man.
Because he does everything himself...his well is always flowing .. with out any collaborators or contributors.. you will hear sounds that you have not heard elsewhere ..
Whether he wins Oscar or not .. he is a happy man .. whatever hits he got .. he did it all by himself.. that should make you feel happy .. feel free.. nirvana !!! He will look straight at you and say it - adhil irukkum ovvoru nOtum ennodhathu !!!
To hell with team work .. this is the beauty from inside a single human brain ..