Discussions on ARR

You can do an exercise if you want. First listen to the 'Kahan Hoon Main' from 'Highway' from the link I gave. Then go and listen to the 'vanaththil vanna malargal' song from 'Oru Oorile'. If you dont have it, get it from here: http://tamiltunes.com/oru-oorla-2013.html

I am choosing these two songs because they have the same sort of requirement: soft female solo with synth and piano accompaniment. You can see how complex Raja gets even in this brief song.

Done with the album.  Heera is a nice melody, sung quite nicely too.  Kahaan Hoon Main has some nice chords.  That's about all that got my attention.  I fully agree with Suresh that this is pretty generic stuff that could easily pass for the work of other music directors in Hindi.  In its favour, it is an inoffensive album and is pleasing to the ears for the most part.  But it's hardly jaw dropping compared to what Amit Trivedi has been doing last few years, like this track (and what a voice Harshdeep Kaur's got).

There's no comparison with Vanathil, and I am not even through with the track.  

CK,

Exactly. As you say 'Kahan Hoon Main' has nice chords and most of the songs are quite easy on the ears but 'vanaththil' chords are of a different level. That's what I wanted some folks to hear. (I am sure it will not convince the ARR gang but that is a different matter. Anyway who knows a bit about music will be immediately excited by 'vanathil' while 'Kahan Hoon Main' will be a nice listen and nothing more)

CR,

'Heera' is a nice melody but people who have heard RDB / SDB will notice a tinge of their melody in the song and the 90s Rahman in the charanam. The charanam start is very typical Rahman 90s slow song format. The pallavi is more RDB/SDB based. Some of the passages in the interlude again take you back to the 90s works of Rahman. More than the pallavi the charanams have the Rahman touch more. The way the pallavi ends is very typical old Hindi song style. The orchestration on the whole is nicely done though not very challenging. A nice to hear melody.

Yes, it did evoke old Hindi melodies in places for me.  Def not a spectacular song, but not a bad one either. None of the ones I heard were bad songs...a pretty consistent, even paced album.  Just a one time listen, nothing much that will stay in the heart for a long time.

CR,

Yours is probably the most balanced review.

Drunkenmunk wrote:

Raaga_Suresh wrote:And those guys are thinking 'Mahi Ve' and 'Pattaka Kudi' are greatest of the songs!!! Ofcourse they are pissed we are digging out gems

. I felt even a Rockstar was much better than this.

Appo idhu avlo mosama?

Basically, a boring album.

^+infinity, looks like AR was trying really hard, banality in rhythm arrangement could
well be due to absence of Ranjit Barot, did Guitar Prasanna really play for 'Patakha Guddi' or those were bits from EGL which
didn't make the cut?   

Maybe that is the key, he is trying too hard.  This micro-managerial "only the best should leave my studio" thing might be what consumes him in the end.  He needs to reinvent himself and relocate the spontaneous, fun element of his 90s work.  That irreverence is long gone.

I think the downhill slide began in the latter half of the noughties and it is only really post Oscar that Rahman has become extremely generic- generic to the point of tedium. The early 2000s still saw very good songs from him like "Nenjam ellAm" (Aaytha ezhuthu), "Kannathil muthamittAl" etc. "Munbe vA" was in 2006. My personal feeling is that he IS a very success driven person and maybe, with oscars, grammies, a string of national/international recognitions (street named after him in Toronto) he simply feels he has achieved everything there is to achieve. He can afford to ride on his successes and give a couple of songs like "Enga pOna rAsa" or "Heera" every year - songs which are standard non-offensive melodic fare, but generic enough to have short term appeal to the largest cross-section of the public audience. The album sales are bound to be good due to marketing, awards are guaranteed and there is simply no motivation for him to recreate the magic of an AlaipAyuthE or Kandukondein. He doesn't need to. I think he is probably not so concerned about "evergreen" value, or maybe he just takes it for granted that his recent songs will also stand the test of time, regardless. 

However with all that said, I'd still take a song like  "Heera" over anything HJ, GVP, Imman or Ani payya come up with. Perhaps the only other MDs  (barring Raja) whose 2000s work I like are Vidyasagar and Ramesh Vinayagam (though he has given only 1 or 2 albums), but sadly both don't seem to be getting too many opportunities in TFM these days.

^^^ That could be part of it.  I do like some of his noughties work post-Alai Payuthey, like Boys or Udhaya.  I think there was already a kind of 'settled' quality in his music even before the Oscars.  For that reason, soundtracks like Guru or Jodha Akbar didn't appeal that much to me though they were well put together no doubt (objectively speaking).  So it's also partly me, because I like the subversive side of his music.  He is only subversive when he experiments with structure, genre or texture.  There is not much that's particularly daring in his melodic or harmonic development, unlike Ilayaraja whose music can be exciting even within an essentially been there-done that cliched setting.  

It's disappointing for me that with all the brand equity accrued to him, Rahman has only chosen to play safe over last decade or so and not tried to take experimentation to the next level.  Emotionally also, he continues to have that boy-out-of-college like innocence and not really 'grown up' which means it's kind of rosy and bland for me.  There's hardly any edge to his music.  Having just spent the last day or so drooling to the Vikram title track, this aspect particularly stands out to me; it feels tame, not spine-chilling.  None of this is a problem at an objective level, it's still good for the requirements of film music.  But that's all.  He was not exactly a slave to script in the 90s.  Kadhal Desam was a boring, cliched film and not particularly well made in spite of the star cast but his music was brilliant.  As Ilayaraja was and is able to, Rahman needs to make music that transcends the requirements of film music.  After all, didn't he feel suffocated at having to play 'just' film music in the 80s?

Maybe (if I temporarily wore my Raja fanboy hat) I shouldn't care about what Rahman is up to but at least in the 90s I was a lot more connected to film music.  That nasty surprise of last year end was a reminder that I can't take Raja saar's active participation in industry for granted, time may be catching up with him.  There's always plenty more of Western music to listen to but it would be nice if TFM itself was wholesome enough to keep me interested.

Message to all stalking forumhub Raghu fans - vaanga ezhaingala!

One more thing. Any kinda views & comments are welcome here. This place is 'run' by IR mafia no doubt but I believe nobody will shy away or chicken out when it comes to allowing discussions on anything, be it Raaja or Rahman or GVP or anyone you want to talk about. The basic level of assumption & understanding is that we're all adults and that you'd be able to digest the fact that if you're gonna talk shit, good chance you might have some coming your way. Not that anyone's gonna be missing anything significant even if you choose to not care a fuck to speak up here. Heck, social forums and usefulness anyway seldom work together. Just that I'd like to call out that this is a war room and gentlemen, you can sure as hell fight in here. enna admins, righta?

crimson king wrote:There's always plenty more of Western music to listen to but it would be nice if TFM itself was wholesome enough to keep me interested.

Not holding my breath. Wouldn't bet on it. Wouldn't advise anyone to bet on it.

Ok. I havent heard this album or anything that preceded it.
My opinion on Rahman's albums are that they will eventually win the audience over, for there
is a proven process behind how it is made with a specific target in mind. That process rarely fails.
I already see a good percentage of listeners liking it or forcing it upon themselves to like it.
The marketing and packaging is attractive and songs are available for easy purchase.
However is there the old Rahman - the geeky young kid trying out new sounds in these albums?
Certainly that you will find in lesser doses these days because his formulae and cheatsheets are
 available to every amit,pritam and rahuls of north indian music world. All these days, sufiyana
mystique around his persona and music helped. Now he has to try something really earthy and
 something from himself more and less from his collaborators. IF he does something like that,
I will go purchase that album - much like how I bought multiple copies of Vande Mataram and gifted it around.
Till then, I will keep waiting. On the basis of this thread, I questioned the opening of it then
and I still wonder the purpose it is serving, though I accept the freedom of app and others who have
created it here.

kv: Seconded. In any case, as Vijay said, our criticisms were addressed to his music, not Rahman as a person. And if nobody wants to call out the ludicrousness of claims of Rahman being spontaneous, or Rahman introducing counterpoint to indian music, surely we are entitled to. It's a bit much if they think they can police our opinions. And by the way I did not throw a fit there when NOV called ir mediocre. How convenient to allow freedom of speech only to their own gumbal. Long distance cribbing is all they can do, let them. Personally I found sunil's verbal muscle flexing pretty hilarious, carry on.

fring151 wrote:

crimson king wrote:There's always plenty more of Western music to listen to but it would be nice if TFM itself was wholesome enough to keep me interested.

Not holding my breath. Wouldn't bet on it. Wouldn't advise anyone to bet on it.

lol, I know, just a nappaasai.

Agree with KV's post too. What do mods/admins/Plum (who "preach lions to be vegans"    as Dilbert said some time before on this very thread) have to say?. And WHERE is Dilbert? I kinda miss him and his hilariously contrarian views, despite the fact that he hurled some choicest adjectives at me like 'ignorant', 'pretentious', 'Rajni hater' etc...again in this very thread.

All are welcome. I promise not to censor anything. The only thing I seek is if you give, be prepared to take.

Please do not close this thread.

1. I would like to read oru forummers opinion on his recent / past music, since every other place in the internet is filled with 'louu' when it comes to him. Obviously some of our forummers like his past work, so its not like we are all waiting to pounce upon his new albums.

2.  What will people like me, who don't have anything meaningful to contribute in the Raaja section do? We want to have fun.   

KVji - Superji.

Yes, I would like this thread to remain open too.

1) Contrary to what "they" may think, I am a BIG 90s ARR fan and I would like to continue to reminisce upon his 90s and even some early 2000s songs here. Heck, if most IR fans are allowed to be "mostly 80s IR fans" and get away with it, why get all riled up about "90s only ARR fans", I say!

2) ^^^ Doesn't mean I am naive enough to buy into ARR=IR arguments or equally subversive ARR>IR>MSV arguments as if to prove TFM "evolved". This is the sort of specious statement that contrA and kAri love making. One of the major failures of modern Indian society is not giving geniuses, true artists and creators due recognition for their work and elevating mediocrity (not saying ARR is mediocre, btw). As CK pointed out, no composer has been awarded the Bharat Ratna while Mangeshkar has. Criminal! Composer>> singer!! 

3) I do have a problem when "they" make absurd claims about ARR and try to distort TFM's and specifically IR's legacy. This must be countered by SOMEONE and evidently no one else is doing it.