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Discussions on ARR

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prakash
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Post  fring151 Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:26 am

plum wrote:
fring151 wrote:
crimson king wrote:Another point is, there is no such thing as composing a tune in fragments is an accepted style in the West.  The old pop songwriters like Burt Bacharach used to write a complete melody first, with or without lyrics, and then work out the arrangements, maybe with the help of an arranger.  Or they write the chords and the melody evolves as a response to the chords.  Breaking up the entire composition into bits and trying to somehow put them together must be one of the bizarre ways of working that I have heard of.  It's fine if that's works for him but by itself that doesn't make it 'pathbreaking' or 'unique'.  As a technique, writing songs with only a Western verse-chorus and no charanam is not unique to ARR even in India.  IR has done it on All The Time (Nadodi Thendral).  Nor do I see, to endorse your arguments, anything that makes it somehow more difficult than a pallavi/charanam or mukda/antara flow.  It is just THEIR songwriting tradition just as pallavi/charanam is ours.

Why go back only to 92? Rahmana pAthu thAn adhu kathukkutAru nu abANdamA pazhiya pOttruvAnga (never mind the chronology and other things - andha nuNNukkangaLa pathi kavala padra gumbal illa idhu). EVK (1982) had two songs without any charanam - Pazhaya sogangal and thendral idai. Even PArtha vizhi from Guna had a sort of verse-chorus format - with possibly the best use of the "money note" I've heard in Indian music - while still retaining a very classical melody and arrangements - so the format is cleverly disguised and totally Indianized. Songs where charanam-1 is different from charanam-2 abound as well - KalaivAaniye,  rAga deepam, Kavidhai keLungaL (nambungappa, adhu Rahman idea illa). I even had an example of a 3 charanam song where all 3 charanams are different, but can't recall.

Edit: My point is simply that it is not as though IR was in a rut in song-formats. He has experimented plenty even in this - the above examples are but a sampler. He just very rarely went for the complete free flow (or should it be free-fall?) where everyone does their thing and you just stitch it together to see what you get.

ninnai charanadaindhEn...

Lol. Don't want this to come across as a "You scratch my back, I scratch yours", but it was your Hub series of posts on the HTNI concert in 2012 that made me join the forum (Oh, well I did figure out that you had all migrated here). Here is your original post which I had even shared with some friends.

http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?8722-Maestro-ilaiyaraaja-news-amp-titbits/page107

And then this literally had me in splits.
http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?8722-Maestro-ilaiyaraaja-news-amp-titbits/page118

"Medical prescription by Dr. Gnaani", it seems.  rotfl2 
Also "======Above medicine available easily in AVM Studio, Chennai..indrE aNugungaL Ph AVM Saravanan============="


ROTFL!
 
Off to the other thread now...

Postscript: I happened to browse the comments of this BRangar intree with Menon a few weeks back.
http://baradwajrangan.wordpress.com/2012/06/16/i-call-it-the-raja-genre/
 I have a nagging feeling that "Raj" in the comments space sounds very much like someone I know here.  Laughing . Kindly throw a hint. That post imitating his writing probably stung!!

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Post  Wizzy Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:21 pm

^and with that Plum Saab just got himself a cyber stalker #Sorrycouldn'tresist   Smile 


Aside, HJ in this interview mentioned 'pleasurable listening' as his motive and you could see where he takes it from. Very relevant to this song as well.

HJ like 'Vikraman movies' plies his trade on those and he cherrypicks movies which does exactly that
AR doing it smacks of laziness if you consider each song of his goes under incubator for 2 months and
the variety of directors/philms he gets to work with comparatively.

Another important thing as you pointed out that this is a journey. So? Recently they try to typecast almost everything into this pop/rock capsule, be it a romance movies (VTV, JTYJN, Jootha Hi Sahi kind of movies), or adventure movies (Blue, Maryan kind) or even our own rural/sea-side movie (raavanan, kadal etc) or crime+love movies (Gajni kind)

that is AR being genre-less like those generic Bolly movies for ABCDs, if Kadal/Maryan were to be remade in Hindi the songs would fit just right in.
'Highway' will be again lapped by these generic post oscar fans,1lakh youtube views+Itunes best seller+ithupona filmfare nomination
later this album will go down as his greatest, rinse repeat for his next album.
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Post  fring151 Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:29 pm

wizzy wrote:^and with that Plum Saab just got himself a cyber stalker #Sorrycouldn'tresist   Discussions on ARR - Page 7 Icon_smile 

 lol! . In my defence, I came across the HTNI hub posts when I was googling for reviews of the concert. I still can't find any videos. Are there any? Please share, even if only bootlegged. Plus, the comment space of the BR article were a total riot. Why would I miss them?  Razz 

wizzy wrote:HJ like 'Vikraman movies' plies his trade on those and he cherrypicks movies which does exactly that 
AR doing it smacks of laziness if you consider each song of his goes under incubator for 2 months and 
the variety of directors/philms he gets to work with comparatively.
Another important thing as you pointed out that this is a journey. So? Recently they try to typecast almost everything into this pop/rock capsule, be it a romance movies (VTV, JTYJN, Jootha Hi Sahi kind of movies), or adventure movies (Blue, Maryan kind) or even our own rural/sea-side movie (raavanan, kadal etc) or crime+love movies (Gajni kind)


that is AR being genre-less like those generic Bolly movies for ABCDs, if Kadal/Maryan were to be remade in Hindi the songs would fit just right in.
'Highway' will be again lapped by these generic post oscar fans,1lakh youtube views+Itunes best seller+ithupona filmfare nomination
later this album will go down as his greatest, rinse repeat for his next album.

More like a couple of million and several thousand likes.

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Post  plum Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:13 pm

Fring - anbarE...it's embarassing. EdhO nAnum katchErikku pOnEnnu karutthu sollIndurukkEn...koochamA irukku...sari, comic relief mAdhiri use paNNikkOngO. apdiyAvadhu sila arumaiyAna iLaingnargaL indha foruthukku vandhadhu sandhOshamE

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Post  app_engine Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:13 pm

fring151 wrote: I have a nagging feeling that "Raj" in the comments space sounds very much like someone I know here.  Laughing . Kindly throw a hint.

You're smart Smile
(like me Laughing )

I used to call our man as the "friend" of Raj in the old hub.

Now that our man himself revealed his ID, I can "hint" you by pasting a link:
http://365rajaquiz.wordpress.com/2013/07/28/track365/comment-page-2/#comment-15218

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Post  fring151 Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:08 am

app_engine wrote:
fring151 wrote: I have a nagging feeling that "Raj" in the comments space sounds very much like someone I know here.  Laughing . Kindly throw a hint.

You're smart Smile
(like me Laughing)

I used to call our man as the "friend" of Raj in the old hub.

Now that our man himself revealed his ID, I can "hint" you by pasting a link:
http://365rajaquiz.wordpress.com/2013/07/28/track365/comment-page-2/#comment-15218

 Laughing . Should check out the tfmpage archives for the "Peace loving avatar" sometime.  Laughing

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Post  V_S Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:47 pm

I don't know why some of his fans are unable to comprehend what we were discussing here. When I am saying almost all his recent film songs irrespective of films theme are embodied in a tiny capsule called contemporary western (pop/rock), they hit back saying IR also did NEPV/Megha kind of songs. Are they comparable? Again I was only talking about western tune and singing, not western arrangements which has become the norm since 60s. How many of recent IR albums/songs have western tune or singing? Maestro never uses the same pop tunes which I used to hear to death in 80/90s. IR's music has relevance to the subject taken and not randomly composed tunes and applying all over the place. I am very happy to be left behind by Rahman, thanks to his uninspiring tunes (except his recent Ranjhana) and arrangements. Even if this is not acceptable, let it be this way at least for me.

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Post  crimson king Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:16 pm

lol, I was wondering what prompted some Rahman fan to post a very long rant on mayyam.  

I would say that Megha and NEPV have Westernised TUNES as well (apart from Western arrangements) while I certainly agree that that does not define IR's work.  I think a song like Innum Konjam Neram is pretty Indian and Vijay Prakash's singing was the real letdown (wonder why he didn't go with Srini mama on that occasion).  Regardless, I don't buy this argument (which that Rahman fan posted) that IR fans are just getting left behind. 'We' could just throw that one right back at them; it's they who are too concerned with commercial hype and cannot see the potential of his arrangements for Megha and NEPV.  It's not like acoustic = old/vintage.  I listen to plenty of Western music and I can vouchsafe that IR's arrangements for both films are as contemporary as they come.  And hey, this time, we have a jazz critic on our side to support our argument   Razz  since they love quoting those kind of sophisticated opinions.

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Post  jaiganesh Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:29 pm

crimson king wrote:lol, I was wondering what prompted some Rahman fan to post a very long rant on mayyam.  

I would say that Megha and NEPV have Westernised TUNES as well (apart from Western arrangements) while I certainly agree that that does not define IR's work.  I think a song like Innum Konjam Neram is pretty Indian and Vijay Prakash's singing was the real letdown (wonder why he didn't go with Srini mama on that occasion).  Regardless, I don't buy this argument (which that Rahman fan posted) that IR fans are just getting left behind. 'We' could just throw that one right back at them; it's they who are too concerned with commercial hype and cannot see the potential of his arrangements for Megha and NEPV.  It's not like acoustic = old/vintage.  I listen to plenty of Western music and I can vouchsafe that IR's arrangements for both films are as contemporary as they come.  And hey, this time, we have a jazz critic on our side to support our argument   Razz  since they love quoting those kind of sophisticated opinions.
it only means they are watching us in twitter and here and miss the engagement factor which was earlier there. This engagement factor was lost after the most stupid and venomous moderator in any internet forum 
vitiated the environment for us there. Also it means that Rahman's collaborators are now smarter and not ready to go head over heels in spending hours giving away their entire portfolio to him anymore. Thats why he has to scourge Airtel super singer show for some voluntary vijay tv adimais who will know nothing but to show up and do as told by their vijay tv airtel masters - modern twist to exploitation. Just look at what has happened to the cute little kid yaazhini - all charm sucked up by VijayTV's non stop appetite for singing shows that give them TRP.

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Post  sagi Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:59 pm

LOL! Just now saw that post. Why so much stomach-burn on gem-digging? May be because we have plenty and they have none?

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Post  fring151 Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:08 pm

Link saar?

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Post  sagi Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:35 pm

Worthless load of tripe. But anyway -> http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?10295-Highway-imtiaz-ali-randeep-hooda&p=1106098&viewfull=1#post1106098

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Post  app_engine Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:45 pm

Nerd wrote:Worthless load of tripe. But anyway -> http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?10295-Highway-imtiaz-ali-randeep-hooda&p=1106098&viewfull=1#post1106098

Laughing

Laughing

What is he claiming "them" to be - humans or animals?

BTW, I have this serious doubt - what do they mean "busy schedule"? (i.e. if it does not include composing songs but he had to "take time out" to compose songs?)

Do they mean "sponsoring" (& even attending) Vijay TV shows?

Yes, yes romba romba busy only!

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Post  V_S Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:20 am

When we were discussing (or even critical about) his music (only music), this post came with so much harshness with lot of personal attacks like 'cannot shy away from their animal instincts', 'imbeciles', 'do it with some sense' etc, that was the reason for my reply post too. Yes, it not worth pondering over, but sad that personal attacks is always a mean and way there to drive away any discussion/criticism.

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Post  fring151 Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:32 am

Nerd wrote:Worthless load of tripe. But anyway -> http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?10295-Highway-imtiaz-ali-randeep-hooda&p=1106098&viewfull=1#post1106098

That single post speaks volumes for the smugness of HCARFs. As someone else said here before, how they love to claim monopoly over love, peace, humility, tolerance and all those other great virtues which IRFs woefully lack.

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Post  crimson king Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:32 am

Nerd wrote:LOL! Just now saw that post. Why so much stomach-burn on gem-digging? May be because we have plenty and they have none?

It's a hypocritical argument, actually, because I have seen some Rahman fans urge others to go listen to albums like People like Us or Blue, both of which were flops.  So they are simply not used to having search for more than one or two albums once in a while like that because he only makes so few albums a year anyway.  Wink

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Post  Wizzy Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:25 am

BTW, I have this serious doubt - what do they mean "busy schedule"? (i.e. if it does not include composing songs but he had to "take time out" to compose songs?)

Do they mean "sponsoring" (& even attending) Vijay TV shows?

Yes, yes romba romba busy only!

yeah, its like AR is doing us a favour by taking some time off to do 'Highway' and we should be grateful for that and lap it up.


What is he claiming "them" to be - humans or animals?

they usually smile and take no notice it seems  laugh  AR is Mother Teresa in the making
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Post  fring151 Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:55 am

wizzy wrote:they usually smile and take no notice it seems  Discussions on ARR - Page 7 3814821318 

What, you don't believe that????? Didn't you know that fans always possess the same qualities (they think) their idol does?

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Post  app_engine Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:47 pm

To check out what ARR is up to:

Exact location of the youtube :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkQmiGlzL4w&t=1048s

If someone wants to see it in embedding, let me post the youtube here (the "&t=1048s" does not work here, so one has to FF) :



He was also featured on the next few days on the same program :







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Post  Raaga_Suresh Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:55 pm

If you want to listen to music of 'Highway' here it is :

http://t.co/YKIbyKgOOk

I think he was trying to make a soulful album here. I found the songs slow but boring. (Let me confess that most of his slow songs bore me to death. So someone else may like it, which I am OK with.)

What I am seeing is that many a time Rahman in Hindi becomes too generic and the only signature of his are the beats. The melody generally has a whiff of something old or some Sufi or sometimes folk. You can hear those here. I would like to hear the comments of someone like crimson_king who I think listens to other modern Hindi songs. I did not find anything very extraordinary in the album. The violin harmonies being standard ones.

BTW, I laughed out loud today when I read Imtiaz Ali say that Rahman told him that he will work very hard and sing a song for him. The song happened to be 'Mahi Ve', a fairly generic song.

Not sure how the general public will receive the slow melodies.

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Post  Raaga_Suresh Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:57 pm

And those guys are thinking 'Mahi Ve' and 'Pattaka Kudi' are greatest of the songs!!! Ofcourse they are pissed we are digging out gems Smile

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Post  Drunkenmunk Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:03 pm

Raaga_Suresh wrote:And those guys are thinking 'Mahi Ve' and 'Pattaka Kudi' are greatest of the songs!!! Ofcourse they are pissed we are digging out gems Smile

Hahaha. Album has 2-3 good songs (don't think Mahi Ve and Pattaka Gudi make it). idha olaga maha album nu sonnaanga naa, solla onyume illa. I felt even a Rockstar was much better than this.
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Post  sagi Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:48 pm

All Rahman albums / songs = pure bliss. HT @balakarthik.

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Post  app_engine Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:14 pm

Raaga_Suresh wrote: we are digging out gems

According to Mr Sunil, there are only one or two fellows in the whole world who dig such IR songs (a negligible number, almost non-existent compared to the millions who daily enjoy gems such as "OdakkAra mArimuththu" at SS4) Wink

That being the case, why should it worry him so much - to such an extent that his "animal instincts" will have peeRikkittu vandhufy!

thinking 


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Post  crimson king Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:36 pm

Raaga_Suresh wrote:I would like to hear the comments of someone like crimson_king who I think listens to other modern Hindi songs. I did not find anything very extraordinary in the album. The violin harmonies being standard ones.

Now you have gone and done it, I will have to listen to the album properly now which I didn't intend to!  Razz  I heard snatches of couple or more songs the other day and it didn't really excite me.  It does sound like slow going melodic fare as you and some others have said.  Delhi 6 was maybe the last fresh album he did in Hindi and even that - Maula can kind of overlap with Salim-Suleiman's work.  Delhi 6, Rockstar, JTHJ, Ranjhanaa etc have nothing on Rangeela which was a monster.  But I guess we haven't moved on to the noughties.   Wink

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