Megha / மேகா

ravinat wrote:
 
 Where is the problem?
 
I know this is a Megha thread. However, I could not resist jumping in as this is something that I I have argued endlessly without any conclusion. If this is an inappropriate thread, please let me know.

The 'problem' as I said in another post just now is the scripts (imo).  Our films have changed. IR as a film composer has no choice but to tailor his music for the films.  GVM being a big fan gave him the scope to break free but that has become rarer and rarer.  Is it possible today to write a song like Mere Mehboob Tujhe Meri Mohabbat ki Kasam?  And if somebody dares do so, who will listen?  We are caught in a flux now... independent music is still coming into its own in India and it is also happening when the old music distribution model of tapes/CDs is dying.  Film music is also declining in its relevance.  Some albums like VTV, NEPV may have done very well commercially but if the songs do survive for 20-30 years like IR's 80s gems, it would have been at the initiative of the composer.  But the songs don't really drive the films in the way they used to even in the 90s when I was growing up.  I watched Bombay in theater and everybody sang along with all the songs.  I have never ever seen that again.  Music is just something to 'do' on the commute, it is not a trip anymore except for 'gone cases' like me.

fring151 wrote:Of course, no doubt about that. Not to speak for crimson king, but I believe he didn't necessarily refer only to the aspect highlighted above. The strings of Madai thirandhu, for example are a perfect illustration of "dark, angrier shades of music" . There is a palpable tension...a smouldering intensity to this and several other arrangements throughout the late 70s and 80s. Similarly the happy songs are not merely happy or pleasant, they are ecstatic..euphoric...Azhagu aayiram, vaan megam etc. Needless to say, between these extremes, one can also find several subtler shades of emotions. (Yes, I have read many parts of Ravinat's blog on analysis of shades of emotions using different instruments). It is not too much of a stretch to say IR mellowed down in this aspect post early 90s.

Yeah, anger was just an illustration.  Not all rock music is angry anyway.  It's about intensity.  As you said, even his happy songs from that period are full on, he goes all out all the time.  I believe he changed because the message he got from listeners is they wanted a change.  They started listening to Rahman's efforts to introduce adult contemporary music elements and began to prefer a lighter sound.  IR has tried to respond in his own way.

@crimson king - no .. no you missed the smiley .. please use whatever term you feel to refer to older people. I am cool :-)
Re: audiophile system and things - its a separate discussion. But suffice it to say , IRs recordings demand a much higher quality system to enjoy. It might even sound 'noisy'.  Too many instruments and the volume level goes from high to low a lot (dynamic range). 
Re: 'adult contemporary' - I think IR songs are more tuned for the adults than Rahman's. Maybe Rahman is for adults like you and IR is for older adults like some of us here :-) Atleast for me. Oh and BTW, he is not going lighter dude .. do you think mugiLo or saRRu munbu are light ? See my earlier posts, it is a different kind of composing style .. just not linear tune making and decorating.. mugiLo requires thinking in multiple threads or dimensions..
As I said, IR has gone 'critical' . The bar has been raised. Tough act for any MD to match this complexity in music.

I really wish there was a female version of Jeevane jeevane by Shreya Ghoshal or Anwesha or even Sunidhi Chauhan. Not that I have any problem with Raaja's rendition (after a very long time, i liked raaja renditions... in Megha). But if there was a female version, it would have stood shoulder to shoulder with Kaatril endhan geetham (Johny). I felt the melody quotient and the impact Jeevane creates is as good as Kaatril Endhan geetham or probably more because of finer recording quality (and absence of ear-piercingly high pitched Janaki). Jeevane vocals are absolutely balanced. Instead of Mugilo being repeated with an unnecessary version by Yuvan (which, by now, most raaja fans too have panned), Raaja should have had a female version of Jeevane. It would have reached even those who are not so fans of post 90s/2000s Raaja output.

Raaga_Suresh wrote:mythila,

How can we escape  That is a fantabulous song. As I was Jai on twitter, the fun quotient is amazingly high in that. Take the first interlude. The strings play and when the drummer comes in, they stop. And then when the strings stop, one wind comes in as if to tell the drummer not to worry and he has company. Reminded of kids who will stop playing when a new kid enters  As @arulselvan told on twitter you can't listen to this song without a smile on your lips.

Very true SureshJi. The vibrant dynamics between various elements of orchestration and that includes the intended silences and pauses too, are things that lend that uniqueness to Raja's music.

"Enna venum" - I am reminded of some "keeravAni" songs of Raaja like "jingidi jingidi" [Guru shishyan], "kizhakku veLukkudhu" [Azhagar malai]

crimson king wrote: The melodrama of 80s is gone

Objection your honor

Two issues -
1. Late 70's & 80's TF field had movies like avaL appadiththAn, muLLum malarum, uthirippookkaL, nenjaththaikkiLLadhE, Johny, mouna rAgam, moonRAm piRai (excluding climax), veedu  etc which can be quoted as some of the least melodrama movies of TF history (new millennium included). rAsA had done INTENSE score even with such movies.

2. It's hardly "gone" (Per ARR, his recent "high" was a melodramatic "nenjE ezhu" for mariyAn, though with zero appeal). And most of the huge money spinner movies of the recent years were, melodrama masAlAs only

fring151 wrote:

Ravinat, DM,

In addition to DM's replies, what about listener fatigue? Familiarity breeds contempt and all that..I can easily pick about 200 songs of Raja from the early 80s period alone that most people in TN love and acknowledge as classics. So maybe people were just spoilt by IR and were in the mood to move on to the next big thing? After all, most fans (apart from hardcore fans) generally don't like more than 20-30 songs (even that might be stretching it) of their favourite rock band or more than a few symphonies and concertos of Mozart or Beethoven. And as App_engine says, IR had what, 100+hits in 1984 alone?? It might, for all we know, have less to do with music and merely listener fatigue and complacency- which is understandable. Just my random thoughts...

Fring

  If familiarity really bred contempt, the Raja 80s crowd must have left the Raja camp; they did not. These folks (I consider this segment as the majority Raja fan segment) are hoping to hear something very similar to what they heard in the 80s. However, they can neither define exactly what it was that appealed to them, nor can they tell exactly what the difference between the 80s and now is.

  This is the crux of the problem. Everybody has a theory for what worked in the 80s. There is no universal agreement. It is beyond commercial dominance, abilities of any composer. Every movement/cult has certain dynamics and uncovering the dynamics is not easy.

  As someone said rightly, there were about 200-250 songs of Raja in the 80s that were great hits and the 80s crowd want it always. These were not necessarily the best of Raja's work, though some of them do qualify. Raja's live programs constantly feed this frenzy.

  Live orchestra - that's no strong argument as prior to Raja there was only live orchestra. SPB, Janaki, KJY, Chithra - I do not buy this also, as they were mere instruments to the composer's work. Outstanding instrument musicians - they are there now too.

  I have my own pet theory... More on that later.

crimson king wrote:

ravinat wrote:
 
 Where is the problem?
 
I know this is a Megha thread. However, I could not resist jumping in as this is something that I I have argued endlessly without any conclusion. If this is an inappropriate thread, please let me know.

The 'problem' as I said in another post just now is the scripts (imo).  Our films have changed. IR as a film composer has no choice but to tailor his music for the films.  GVM being a big fan gave him the scope to break free but that has become rarer and rarer.  Is it possible today to write a song like Mere Mehboob Tujhe Meri Mohabbat ki Kasam?  And if somebody dares do so, who will listen?  We are caught in a flux now... independent music is still coming into its own in India and it is also happening when the old music distribution model of tapes/CDs is dying.  Film music is also declining in its relevance.  Some albums like VTV, NEPV may have done very well commercially but if the songs do survive for 20-30 years like IR's 80s gems, it would have been at the initiative of the composer.  But the songs don't really drive the films in the way they used to even in the 90s when I was growing up.  I watched Bombay in theater and everybody sang along with all the songs.  I have never ever seen that again.  Music is just something to 'do' on the commute, it is not a trip anymore except for 'gone cases' like me.

I could write some more, but would rather do it 
After you listen to some of raaja's 90s and 2000s.
Because as suresh says repeatedly raaja is not someone
 Who composes for what is written in scripts. He purely
 Does it for stories and characters. They are always pure
no matter how the script is mauled. So in essence he 
has been doing what he has been doing, but with diff collaborators and conditions.It is highly laughable to imply that only GVM provided scope.All GVM provided was the hype IMO. Which is what Megha team is also rightfully doing. For we have a generation which easily relishes in stereotyping, spoofing and reactive to marketjng campaigns.

crimson king wrote:Yeah, anger was just an illustration.  Not all rock music is angry anyway.  It's about intensity.  As you said, even his happy songs from that period are full on, he goes all out all the time.  I believe he changed because the message he got from listeners is they wanted a change.  They started listening to Rahman's efforts to introduce adult contemporary music elements and began to prefer a lighter sound.  IR has tried to respond in his own way.

Hmm..I get what you are trying to say..but there are so many IR albums/songs with feverish intensities in the 90s, 00s also. Infact i would rate IR folk songs of late are absolute assualtish. Pls listen to Kula deivam from TK or Immathundu Manasu from Madhu et all.

There is no way IR is toning down on his music/intensity levels. He is just changing the sounding of his music never ever his approach towards. For instance i was listening to Megha and pressed prev button and got annakili while driving. Suddenly became so emotional that how come this man who started in 70s is sounding like this in Megha. And then after sometime i realised that nothing has changed. IR is a constant and time and soundscape is just running around him. Here he is in the 5th decade of his work. It is the same level of conceptual thinking in annakili and megha. Nothing has changed at all. 

Now you have spoke about what you like your tastes and all. This is where we generally are. We have a particular taste spectrum and when IR comes inside that we are happy. If not we dont like it. This likability is not a factor with IR at all. In a similar way to, you dont have to LIKE bach music you dont have LIKE IR music.

I donno if i am putting it right, but let me explain it this way. We have tastes in music. Yours is intensity, somebody has melody, somebody needs dance. What would be IRs then. He must be then happy with classical music alone. But is he stopping himself there. He is one man who has always said everything is music and hates boxing music in genres. He goes from carnatic to funk to jazz to folk to sensual.He has no likability factor in music.  He therefore is not a melody line musician who sits and thinks of a melody line that he likes and would impress upon his audience. Even if we give him a stupid melody line he would create a world class composition out of it. Music is conceptualizing for him rather just making people like his music. The later for him is just a product of the former. Thats the way he has been all this time. Thats why its very difficult to rank his albums. How can i choose between NT, CNC, Megha or Gundello. Production levels yes Megha. But the conceptual thinking is there everywhere. Its a grave injustice if i choose.

He has always been that. There will not be a single album/song devoid of it. Production levels vary. But we are not talking about musicians for whom the entire thing is about production sensibility only. But raja targets our understanding not sensibilties alone. Thats why i dont care a damn about bad singers, synth et all. They are just irritants. But Raajas work is unmistakably there in every song of his all these years.

kiru wrote:
Re: 'adult contemporary' - I think IR songs are more tuned for the adults than Rahman's. Maybe Rahman is for adults like you and IR is for older adults like some of us here :-) Atleast for me. Oh and BTW, he is not going lighter dude .. do you think mugiLo or saRRu munbu are light ? See my earlier posts, it is a different kind of composing style .. just not linear tune making and decorating.. mugiLo requires thinking in multiple threads or dimensions..

Adult contemporary is a genre.  It is not necessary that only adults would listen to but in the West, it refers to a certain kind of smooth, syrupy pop music with lot of melodic electric guitar, piano, synth, saxophone (either one of these or some combination).  An ARR example of adult contemporary is En Kadhalae.  It is a good song but it has a certain mushy quality.  It is a way of presenting the emotions in a somewhat more palatable form because not everyone may want to experience authentic emotions in their raw nature.  As a matter of fact, I have seen some people shrink away from passionate songs for possibly this reason.  I fully agree that Sattru Munbu is not a light song but I have already also mentioned NEPV as an album where he has brought back intensity.  I say brought back because...compare NEPV to Kadhalukku Mariyathai, Friends, even Oru Naal Oru Kanavu to a large extent.  In the 80s, even in light romantic films, IR did not make music with that feel.  It was an element he introduced in the 90s because it was what was required.

jaiganesh wrote:
I could write some more, but would rather do it 
After you listen to some of raaja's 90s and 2000s.
Because as suresh says repeatedly raaja is not someone
 Who composes for what is written in scripts. He purely
 Does it for stories and characters. They are always pure
no matter how the script is mauled. So in essence he 
has been doing what he has been doing, but with diff collaborators and conditions.It is highly laughable to imply that only GVM provided scope.All GVM provided was the hype IMO. Which is what Megha team is also rightfully doing. For we have a generation which easily relishes in stereotyping, spoofing and reactive to marketjng campaigns.

I have listened to more than SOME 90s and noughties IR but please feel free to assume if you wish to do so.  As for IR, he himself has said his intention is always first and foremost to satisfy the director.  He may be an artist but he also understands how the business works and he performs his ROLE.   So I am inclined to disagree; IR might find a creative way to do something different that also fits the requirements of the film but that is his stated intention, to fulfill the needs of the film.  

As for NEPV, it doesn't take much effort to point out the sheer variety of the songs in that film as opposed to many other films he has handled in the last decade or so.  How can one movie accommodate Vaanam Mella, Muthal Murai, Kaatrai Konjam, Sattru all these songs?  That is awesome breadth.  Pl understand that I am not criticising IR. If anything, I am pinpointing it at the directors' end.  I am simply saying GVM gave IR more width to do what he could do more frequently in the 80s.   Other films didn't always offer him the same scope.  He can't compose a jazzy Kalvane for the film if the situation doesn't call for it; that is the reality of how the film industry works. And I don't really blame directors either.  They are answerable to producers too.  They can only give the audience what they want and the only way to express the want is to buy tickets and watch the show.   If people don't watch it, artists won't get the chance from another financier to express themselves again, as simple as that.

balachidambaram wrote:Hmm..I get what you are trying to say..but there are so many IR albums/songs with feverish intensities in the 90s, 00s also. Infact i would rate IR folk songs of late are absolute assualtish. Pls listen to Kula deivam from TK or Immathundu Manasu from Madhu et all.

There is no way IR is toning down on his music/intensity levels. He is just changing the sounding of his music never ever his approach towards. For instance i was listening to Megha and pressed prev button and got annakili while driving. Suddenly became so emotional that how come this man who started in 70s is sounding like this in Megha. And then after sometime i realised that nothing has changed. IR is a constant and time and soundscape is just running around him. Here he is in the 5th decade of his work. It is the same level of conceptual thinking in annakili and megha. Nothing has changed at all. 

Now you have spoke about what you like your tastes and all. This is where we generally are. We have a particular taste spectrum and when IR comes inside that we are happy. If not we dont like it. This likability is not a factor with IR at all. In a similar way to, you dont have to LIKE bach music you dont have LIKE IR music.

I donno if i am putting it right, but let me explain it this way. We have tastes in music. Yours is intensity, somebody has melody, somebody needs dance. What would be IRs then. He must be then happy with classical music alone. But is he stopping himself there. He is one man who has always said everything is music and hates boxing music in genres. He goes from carnatic to funk to jazz to folk to sensual.He has no likability factor in music.  He therefore is not a melody line musician who sits and thinks of a melody line that he likes and would impress upon his audience. Even if we give him a stupid melody line he would create a world class composition out of it. Music is conceptualizing for him rather just making people like his music. The later for him is just a product of the former. Thats the way he has been all this time. Thats why its very difficult to rank his albums. How can i choose between NT, CNC, Megha or Gundello. Production levels yes Megha. But the conceptual thinking is there everywhere. Its a grave injustice if i choose.

He has always been that. There will not be a single album/song devoid of it. Production levels vary. But we are not talking about musicians for whom the entire thing is about production sensibility only. But raja targets our understanding not sensibilties alone. Thats why i dont care a damn about bad singers, synth et all. They are just irritants. But Raajas work is unmistakably there in every song of his all these years.

First off, I am only analysing trends...I am not commenting on all but on the general trend.  The trend is that IR didn't write songs like Ennai Thalatu or Roja Poonthotam in the 80s.  See, I am not saying IR never did intense music again in the 90s or later but he definitely introduced a trend of scores with a 'light' flavour.  With due respect to exceptions, that does affect general perceptions also.   I am not criticizing IR for writing Ennai Thalatu, it is a good song IMO.  But it is something very different in character from 80s or even from NEPV/Megha for that matter.   The question was what has changed and I have tried to answer that question.   If  you believe nothing has changed, fine, that's your view and I respect it.

Secondly, I am not talking about likes and dislikes but only minor preferences.  I never said I do not like melody or only like intensity.  If that was the case, I wouldn't be an IR fan in the first place.  I was again only commenting on a general observation made in the thread that 80s IR seems to draw listeners from young as well as older generations and said the intensity possibly appealed to youngsters, that is all.  

Lastly, yes, I fully agree that his scores may be great irrespective of production values.  That is not the point.  The point is only that had he had access to the infra in the 80s that he can now, he could have enhanced these recordings even further.  Since I have IR on quote in the interview to that Bengali composer that he couldn't get the tones he desired at that time, I don't think my point there is entirely devoid of merit.   There are some IR albums which are more consistent than others, some which are better recorded, etc etc.  I do not find it difficult to accept this because it is a by product of the spontaneity with which he works.  He leaves a lot to chance...to the creative spark he gets at the given moment rather than pondering for months over a single song.  It is possibly the purest way to write music and he has stuck to it.  I take the good and the bad of it..but to say that Rathiri Nerathu (Anjali) is as great a composition as Mandram Vandha would be doing some injustice to his talents, in my personal opinion.  Let's be honest, we like IR because he can write songs as good as Mandram Vandha, not just as good as Rathiri Nerathu.   We like IR because he is brilliant, not just so-so.

Interesting debate but need to start out early tomorrow morning on a long drive, so I will give this debate a skip for now, though the topic is close to my heart. Will join after a few days.

I would only want ti paraphrase what @arulselvan said on twitter after hearing a Raja song (probably from Nadithudikkudhu): "Raja, you seem to be always changing and yet I have the feeling that you were always where you were and it is we who are changing" Sums up the dilemma well.

Personally, I don't see any difference in Raja's approach to music or change in his philosophy of music throughout his career. This requires a series of posts. Hopefully I will get some time soon to do this.

app_engine wrote:

crimson king wrote: The melodrama of 80s is gone

Objection your honor

Two issues -
1. Late 70's & 80's TF field had movies like avaL appadiththAn, muLLum malarum, uthirippookkaL, nenjaththaikkiLLadhE, Johny, mouna rAgam, moonRAm piRai (excluding climax), veedu  etc which can be quoted as some of the least melodrama movies of TF history (new millennium included). rAsA had done INTENSE score even with such movies.

2. It's hardly "gone" (Per ARR, his recent "high" was a melodramatic "nenjE ezhu" for mariyAn, though with zero appeal). And most of the huge money spinner movies of the recent years were, melodrama masAlAs only

You got me there, maybe the word I was looking for was just 'dramatic' rather than melodramatic.  If I consider Johnny, the scene sets the stage perfectly for Kaatril Endhan Geetham.  Rajini hurrying through rain and dodging police as Sridevi sings, hoping fervently that he will make it.  I can point to many similar scenes from that era, esp in climax situation.  Not similar in a very precise factual sense but in terms of evoking the race against time cliche.   In Paadava Un Paadalai, you have Mohan indulging in rash driving to get to Ambika.   In Yaar Vittu Roja (Idaya Kovil), roles are reversed....Ambika is searching for Mohan in an unfamiliar city while he comes to know too late of her arrival and is consumed with emotion.  These are all emotionally loaded situations.  Mouna Raagam is also full of such moments even if the tone was less 'high voltage'. It's a perfect setting for a very intense piece of music. I don't watch Tamil films as often anymore as I used to before I started working  but the impression I get is the tone per se is more casual now, especially in urban oriented films and the actors are also in sync with this casual approach.   Melodrama today is more by way of ridiculously macho dialogues and stunts than intensity, perhaps?

crimson king wrote:

app_engine wrote:

crimson king wrote: The melodrama of 80s is gone

Objection your honor

Two issues -
1. Late 70's & 80's TF field had movies like avaL appadiththAn, muLLum malarum, uthirippookkaL, nenjaththaikkiLLadhE, Johny, mouna rAgam, moonRAm piRai (excluding climax), veedu  etc which can be quoted as some of the least melodrama movies of TF history (new millennium included). rAsA had done INTENSE score even with such movies.

2. It's hardly "gone" (Per ARR, his recent "high" was a melodramatic "nenjE ezhu" for mariyAn, though with zero appeal). And most of the huge money spinner movies of the recent years were, melodrama masAlAs only

You got me there, maybe the word I was looking for was just 'dramatic' rather than melodramatic.  If I consider Johnny, the scene sets the stage perfectly for Kaatril Endhan Geetham.  Rajini hurrying through rain and dodging police as Sridevi sings, hoping fervently that he will make it.  I can point to many similar scenes from that era, esp in climax situation.  Not similar in a very precise factual sense but in terms of evoking the race against time cliche.   In Paadava Un Paadalai, you have Mohan indulging in rash driving to get to Ambika.   In Yaar Vittu Roja (Idaya Kovil), roles are reversed....Ambika is searching for Mohan in an unfamiliar city while he comes to know too late of her arrival and is consumed with emotion.  These are all emotionally loaded situations.  Mouna Raagam is also full of such moments even if the tone was less 'high voltage'. It's a perfect setting for a very intense piece of music. I don't watch Tamil films as often anymore as I used to before I started working  but the impression I get is the tone per se is more casual now, especially in urban oriented films and the actors are also in sync with this casual approach.   Melodrama today is more by way of ridiculously macho dialogues and stunts than intensity, perhaps?

That is a good point. Modern films are too withheld indeed - but that is where Raaja uses his BGM and in many cases, that BGM substitutes words and phrases traditional songs.
NEPV if seen from the right perspective is a broadway musical without much of lip syncing.

He contributes in the way he can.  But if directors don't get out of his songs what their 80s counterparts did, his hands are tied.  Balki highlighted the brilliance of his BGM with one scene from Paa.  Unfortunately, the same Balki wants Raja to simply give 'mod' versions of evergreen classics instead of originals.

I dont think crimson king's arguments are at odds with any of the others be it bala's or suresh's or Jai's. I and Jai have concurred that IR has evolved. CK is saying IR has introduced a 'light' form of music. Its ok, that is how he sees it. I have heard many people say IR's sandham/metre got very predictable. Some have said, if they know the pallavi, they can tell how the charanam is going to be structured. IR himself once said, you will hear some thing fresh from me. He also said, what you had was appalam/oorukaai and the full 'virundhu' is coming. So we are all cool.
Re: the intensity part. IR has always been an 'intense' dude. He is a fighter. Even today, you can see the aggressiveness in his speech/stance. His eyes are alert and roaming. He does not look like a 70 year old man. Give him Rajnikant's makeup he will beat him in 'speed/ferocity' probably :-)
These things do show up in his music... long ago, paadi parandha kiLi ..paadhai maranthathadi  has such intenstiy..So like Suresh  quoted he has it all in him, just things manifest in different forms at different times. 
BTW, Megha did not have that much publicity like NEPV. It is just that the consistency and focus in it, following NEPV is what has generated all this enthusiasm.

Just one minor quibble. Drama in 80s films and situations - on paper? Yes. Execution? Well, that's up for debate

crimson king wrote:

app_engine wrote:

crimson king wrote: The melodrama of 80s is gone

Objection your honor

Two issues -
1. Late 70's & 80's TF field had movies like avaL appadiththAn, muLLum malarum, uthirippookkaL, nenjaththaikkiLLadhE, Johny, mouna rAgam, moonRAm piRai (excluding climax), veedu  etc which can be quoted as some of the least melodrama movies of TF history (new millennium included). rAsA had done INTENSE score even with such movies.

2. It's hardly "gone" (Per ARR, his recent "high" was a melodramatic "nenjE ezhu" for mariyAn, though with zero appeal). And most of the huge money spinner movies of the recent years were, melodrama masAlAs only

You got me there, maybe the word I was looking for was just 'dramatic' rather than melodramatic.  If I consider Johnny, the scene sets the stage perfectly for Kaatril Endhan Geetham.  Rajini hurrying through rain and dodging police as Sridevi sings, hoping fervently that he will make it.  I can point to many similar scenes from that era, esp in climax situation.  Not similar in a very precise factual sense but in terms of evoking the race against time cliche.   In Paadava Un Paadalai, you have Mohan indulging in rash driving to get to Ambika.   In Yaar Vittu Roja (Idaya Kovil), roles are reversed....Ambika is searching for Mohan in an unfamiliar city while he comes to know too late of her arrival and is consumed with emotion.  These are all emotionally loaded situations.  Mouna Raagam is also full of such moments even if the tone was less 'high voltage'. It's a perfect setting for a very intense piece of music. I don't watch Tamil films as often anymore as I used to before I started working  but the impression I get is the tone per se is more casual now, especially in urban oriented films and the actors are also in sync with this casual approach.   Melodrama today is more by way of ridiculously macho dialogues and stunts than intensity, perhaps?

Good point. Dramatic is a fine word. Not just in the climax. Even when Johny and Vidyasagar are being chased in the film and bump into each other, the BGM is a chorus that sounds morbidly base in tone and pitch, bringing in a feel of terror and horror just like that. Certainly dramatic. Same case with the climax BGM of Nenjathai KillaadhE. Heroine loves another guy, hero leaves her. Almost a Mouna Ragam, this just being version 1.0. Heroine runs to the airport to meet hero, make up with him realizing his kind heart. That moment where the 'Eureka' happens for both of them and they realize they love each other, he finishes the film with a thillaana in bass guitar. Thillaana is used to end Carnatic concerts. He ends a modern film with a thillaana in guitars playing a western score of ecstasy. Conforming to the rule is there. But breaking the rules within the framework is also there. andha aLavukku well executed scripts don't come Raaja's way very often today. They do come but not very often. An artsy Nizhalkuthu, Bala's Naan KadavuL, Pithamagan do come every now and then. But in the 80s, he was the commercial and artistic capital in TFM. That has changed now and with good films few and far in between, his works getting mainstream attention is naturally lessened.

fring151 wrote:Just one minor quibble. Drama in 80s films and situations - on paper? Yes. Execution? Well, that's up for debate

I don't disagree there.   I am more interested in the concept, the need for drama rather than its execution because the very premise offers more scope for the composer.

Drunkenmunk wrote: andha aLavukku well executed scripts don't come Raaja's way very often today. They do come but not very often. An artsy Nizhalkuthu, Bala's Naan KadavuL, Pithamagan do come every now and then. But in the 80s, he was the commercial and artistic capital in TFM. That has changed now and with good films few and far in between, his works getting mainstream attention is naturally lessened.

Yeah, that IS part of the problem.  Getting noticed is important in show business, and in most other walks of life for that matter (exception being criminal activity ).

Interesting discussion - when I hear IR's early songs and now, what I see now is an increased sophistication reflecting growing mastery.  His innovativeness has always been there throughout.  Its common people generalize the 90s or now with sweeping comments without analyzing the facts.  The facts are that even in the 90s and early 2000s, IR has continued to innovate.  I can go through the list of movies and songs - he has been as bold, as angry (if it has to be explained that way), as innovative but what I see is increasing leves of sophistication - Any way my humble opinion. 

I dont think the enormity of his genius is even fully grasped and celebrated by us as all that are clouded by other surrounding news events such as trends, social influences, the awareness and the reputation of stars/directors of the movies, the publicity/non-publicity of the albums etc.  However, when 50 years from now, when people look at the breadth, depth, the variety, the innovativeness of his work vis-a-vis his contemporaries, they are going to realize that his genius is unparalled.  Like we do for Mozart and Beethoven and Bach now!

Kr wrote:The facts are that even in the 90s and early 2000s, IR has continued to innovate.  I can go through the list of movies and songs - he has been as bold, as angry (if it has to be explained that way), as innovative but what I see is increasing leves of sophistication 

While innovation in music is more opinion than fact, I have to stress that I do agree that he has continued to innovate.  I have never said anything in this thread to suggest otherwise.  But it is also true that from the mid 90s onwards, he has used more electronic sounds, has favoured a more programmed sound.  Again, these things are documented by what the maestro himself has said.  In one of the teasers for Dhoni, IR said he is RETURNING to live recording.  He wanted the raw feeling of a live recording again.  As for lighter sound in the 90s, again it was he himself who acknowledged this in a mid 90s interview...that he was experimenting with a (then) more contemporary, pop oriented flavour.  Something to that effect, I can't find that interview now in the vast internet.

As for publicity, I had never heard of this Albert James before Megha but I have watched an earlier film directed by Prakash Raj...didn't stop me liking Megha a lot, lot more than Dhoni.


EDIT:  I have got the quote now.  Here's the interview:
"
I ask him this new feel his music has started evoking. After Kaadhalukku Mariyadhai, Raaja seems to have evolved a more pop oriented rhythm format and the beauty is that it is mild and blends with his usual composing format and orchestration. He agrees and attentively watches every word I say. I'm put on the defensive. But, moments later he says, his songs will have a fresh feel."


http://ilayarajaa.blogspot.in/2009/02/interview-with-ilayaraja.html

Not to be argumentative - it seems like some literary freedom taken by the author - read the last paragraph of the blog.  It contrasts what he says in the part you have pointed out

The last para is clearly his (the author's) own opinion and I agree that it contradicts his observation earlier, with which IR apparently agreed.  But I trust the evidence of the music itself of say Kadhalukku Mariyathai.  Or Kannukul Nilavu for that matter.  These scores were about melody-and-rhythm than melody-and-harmony.  IR created great grooves on some of these tracks but there is not much harmonic development going on there.   I am not one to judge which approach is better.  But the melody-and-rhythm approach is very much in sync with 90s...not only 90s TFM but 90s music in general.