Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 3

Drunkenmunk wrote:

fring151 wrote:Well, I was clearly referring only to Chennai radio. I know the situationi is different on TV and outisde Chennai. But don't underestimate ability of Chennai radio to set trends. Based on my random sampling of ~2 hrs everyday for close to the past 2 months, I can say with some confidence that IR's presence is vastly diminished on all FM stations and at all times. as compared to a year back. Maybe my sampling wasn't unbiased enough, but I don't think so. There is a marked increase in random SA Rajkumar and Chandrabose songs in slots where IR held complete sway and the few IR songs I have heard have been the usual suspects - Kanmani anbodu etc...

92.7 ARR overdose
94.3 Bolly hellhole
98.3 Newage garbage
101.4 The occasional IR hit
106.4 Few IR songs here and there. Lots of SAR, SG, Chandrabose.

Largely agree. And this is the case post his crackdown. adhukku munnAdi ellAm engu thirumbinAlum Raaja, everywhere except 92.7.

Fring - thanks for the timely reminder on "But don't underestimate ability of Chennai radio to set trends. ".

For Chennai Radio, read alwarpet/mylapore based influential media people. This is what happened in 92/7(1992 July) ( a bit of creative license there)

You are right, just like then, a combo of Raghuman(who has his own elite market, which compensates for lack of numbers with the weight of money, power and influence), adequae sugar substitues like Deva, poor saccharine substitutes like SAR, Bose etc. This is what is replacing iR.
And they might get away with it too,

The point being, IR offers absolute high quality. When they had access to it, the average tamilian revelled in it. If access is removed, no big deal, they are happy to settle with lower quality. They just need their prozac. ("avar isai kEtta dhAn thookkam varum, mana azhuththam kuRaiyum" type fans will be the first to migrate in this situation).

History repeats, eh?

And I am not half sure IR doenst understand this. He is probably actually playing for his principles knowing he'll lose the immediate material battle. The man is just too good for his contemporary public. Not only do they not understand his musical genius, they also dont understand his integrity. What a farce. what a shame

crimson king wrote:It is a move that came too late in the day to have any commercial influence (positively) for him.  But on principle it is difficult to disagree with him and if we agree that IR's music is meant to live on years after he's no more (sorry but just for the sake of argument) then he need not focus on his current predicament in making such a decision.  In an era of declining revenues from music, it will also help other composers...that is, if they have the balls to follow suit.  Unlikely, but IR can't be blamed for that.  Now if he really did ask for royalty from people performing stage shows with IR songs, I cannot agree with that at all.  World over it is an accepted practice that bands may perform live covers of songs without paying royalty as long as they don't seek to commercialise such a performance by offering it for TV broadcasts.  In general, artists take a lenient view of live covers....because everybody climbs up the ladder by having once performed live covers and having to pay royalty to do so would cripple them.  In that case, I tend to think he is getting wrong advice from some overzealous 'well wishers'.

Agree with it. IR himself has proudly claimed about composing a song for Nehru's death along the lines of a popular MSV song, and he has proudly recalled Paavalar Varadarajan's clever communist improvisations on contemporary popular music to mobilise masses to their cause.

It is a move that came too late in the day to have any commercial influence (positively) for him.  But on principle it is difficult to disagree with him and if we agree that IR's music is meant to live on years after he's no more (sorry but just for the sake of argument) then he need not focus on his current predicament in making such a decision.  In an era of declining revenues from music, it will also help other composers...that is, if they have the balls to follow suit.  Unlikely, but IR can't be blamed for that.  Now if he really did ask for royalty from people performing stage shows with IR songs, I cannot agree with that at all.  World over it is an accepted practice that bands may perform live covers of songs without paying royalty as long as they don't seek to commercialise such a performance by offering it for TV broadcasts.  In general, artists take a lenient view of live covers....because everybody climbs up the ladder by having once performed live covers and having to pay royalty to do so would cripple them.  In that case, I tend to think he is getting wrong advice from some overzealous 'well wishers'.

Agree with it. IR himself has proudly claimed about composing a song for Nehru's death along the lines of a popular MSV song, and he has proudly recalled Paavalar Varadarajan's clever communist improvisations on contemporary popular music to mobilise masses to their cause.

Even though I am always cynical about these things, my gut feeling here is that this is likely a short term trend. Eventually I expect good sense to prevail on both parties and IR to make a strong comeback on radio. Either way, whether this happens will be a telling statement on the size and quality of IR's fan base and also TN pop culture.

DM/Plum,

   I hope you are right and I lose this argument about Raja distracting himself (right terminology App) with this copyright issue. Unfortunately, things seem to get worse by the day.

   He (and this coterie) went after poor stage musicians first, which is a lousy first step.

   Here is what he does next:

https://www.facebook.com/Ilaiyaraaja/photos/a.921157221262159.1073741829.918608478183700/980695618641652/

  Are these guys out of their minds? Even if I love Raja's music like nothing one else in the world, why would I send all my original CDs, LPs to him? All for an hour with him. Priceless I guess. For everything else, you have mastercard :-)

  I hope this news is not true. Otherwise, I have to downgrade him from an average guy (not in music - there is no argument there) to the next level. He will alienate himself from his fan base even more.

  BTW, I am not emotional at all about the copyright issue. His coterie is completely misleading him.

   However, Raja does not need any distractions from his music work.

  Any pop star is only as good as his last hit - Raja is no exception to this rule. When was his true last hit that reached the masses? NEPV in 2012? Somebody close to him must remind him that. Nobody cares about his announcements/interviews - his work has to speak and not him.

I just put in a comment there to caution people to not lose their collection in the mail. All of these seem very childish to me. KR and rest of the family should work on getting an agent for IR in Hollywood and pull of a background score credit in a movie soon. They should help or do what our Madhan does all the time - Getting his work reviewed and publicized. There is more money to be made in a new engagement versus royalty from old works.

That advertisement to send your original disks and meet rAsA


IR definitely has some real-life-comedians playing "friends" to him (but are effectively foes).

Well, some +ve thingy - The Hindu series is still running and featuring IR sons:
ஜெர்மனியின் செந்தேன் மலரே - இந்து பேப்பரில்

All songs are my favourites - nAn undhan thAyAga veNdum, azhagu Ayiram, deiveega rAgaM besides the Germay's senthEn malar!

I agree with you, Ravi sir.  Not really about the copyright part but the part about these silly distractions.  And yes, targeting stage musicians is the pits.  Um, just as Narendra Modi cannot escape culpability for the actions of corrupt cabinet ministers, the buck stops with IR if he blindly listens to his coterie.  I get that he may perhaps have poor commercial sense and lack a judgment of what are the means to enhancing revenue from his work.  But at his age, he still ought to be able to use his common sense to draw the line and stop them from tarnishing his legacy.  I would hate to have to remember IR as a cruel, selfish celebrity who wants to fleece small time musicians just because way back when producers may have short changed him.  But I will be left with no choice in the current circumstances.  It will not diminish my opinion of his work, obviously, but if this is his gig, then I really don't care what his detractors want to label him as and maybe there's a modicum of truth in it after all.

Coincidentally, the great Robert Fripp has also consumed himself in a likely fruitless pursuit to hunt down internet pirates and protect his copyright...to the point that he finds that more important than making new music.  To an extent, I can empathise with this point of view because neither the law nor society at large has been kind to musicians in the last decade.  But how is not making more music going to help the situation anyway?

http://www.thefourohfive.com/music/article/listen-to-vikram-a-new-song-from-caribou-maestro-dan-snaith-s-alter-ego-daphni-143

crimson king wrote:I agree with you, Ravi sir.  Not really about the copyright part but the part about these silly distractions.  And yes, targeting stage musicians is the pits.  Um, just as Narendra Modi cannot escape culpability for the actions of corrupt cabinet ministers, the buck stops with IR if he blindly listens to his coterie.  I get that he may perhaps have poor commercial sense and lack a judgment of what are the means to enhancing revenue from his work.  But at his age, he still ought to be able to use his common sense to draw the line and stop them from tarnishing his legacy.  I would hate to have to remember IR as a cruel, selfish celebrity who wants to fleece small time musicians just because way back when producers may have short changed him.  But I will be left with no choice in the current circumstances.  It will not diminish my opinion of his work, obviously, but if this is his gig, then I really don't care what his detractors want to label him as and maybe there's a modicum of truth in it after all.

I listened to the IR speech with the stage physicians and I did not find anything wrong in what IR said in his meeting with the stage singers.  These guys were already paying something for copyright for all the songs they sing to some organization and IR's contention was that what this organization was passing along did not not correlate with the number of songs that are performed on the stage.  And his contention that the organization does not provide proper accounting and shows expenses that he is suspicious about.  So he resigned from the membership from that organization and is asking the group to help with a different way of compensating the music directors from this source of revenue.  He states that either they could pay him directly (asking the stage group to come up with the royalty percentage themselves in association with the cine music directors union) or start a new organization along with cine music directors union and if the latter IR says he would support it and help the formation of the organization.  I think IR always stands up to the bigwigs who try to flex their muscle and this is just like that.  if it is money he is after he would have done this much earlier in his life.

Everyone is free to make their own judgement but I am saddened that even the true lovers of his music have not taken the time to listen to what he said and try to go with characterizations of his speech rather than the actual speech itself.

Because others are doing it doesn't justify IR's position either.  It may be wrong for the Cine Musicians Union to deny IR's share of royalties but royalties shouldn't be charged for stage performance of songs in the first place.  Actually this is typical of how things work in India.  They don't want to take on the radio stations who have financial muscle but they want to target stage musicians who have no option but to fall in line.  I fully support IR's stand on the former in spite of how ill timed it is because he is right in principle.  But asking stage musicians to pay royalty is terribly unfair.

crimson king wrote:Because others are doing it doesn't justify IR's position either.  It may be wrong for the Cine Musicians Union to deny IR's share of royalties but royalties shouldn't be charged for stage performance of songs in the first place.  Actually this is typical of how things work in India.  They don't want to take on the radio stations who have financial muscle but they want to target stage musicians who have no option but to fall in line.  I fully support IR's stand on the former in spite of how ill timed it is because he is right in principle.  But asking stage musicians to pay royalty is terribly unfair.

I am gathering all this from IR's speech.  The stage musicians already pay the royalty but they pay to IPRS.  IR's contention is that IPRS is not distributing the proceeds accurately and does not provide proper accounting.  All that IR is asking is create something that is rival to IPRS and pay them instead so that the money goes to the people it is meant for rather than the guys managing IPRS.  I didnt get the sense that the stage singers were not paying anything thus far and IR is demanding them to pay hitherto.

Kr wrote:

crimson king wrote:Because others are doing it doesn't justify IR's position either.  It may be wrong for the Cine Musicians Union to deny IR's share of royalties but royalties shouldn't be charged for stage performance of songs in the first place.  Actually this is typical of how things work in India.  They don't want to take on the radio stations who have financial muscle but they want to target stage musicians who have no option but to fall in line.  I fully support IR's stand on the former in spite of how ill timed it is because he is right in principle.  But asking stage musicians to pay royalty is terribly unfair.

I am gathering all this from IR's speech.  The stage musicians already pay the royalty but they pay to IPRS.  IR's contention is that IPRS is not distributing the proceeds accurately and does not provide proper accounting.  All that IR is asking is create something that is rival to IPRS and pay them instead so that the money goes to the people it is meant for rather than the guys managing IPRS.  I didnt get the sense that the stage singers were not paying anything thus far and IR is demanding them to pay hitherto.

I gather that CK in principle is opposed to gathering royalty from stage musicians. Whether it is gathered from IPRS (who don't share it with the creators) or the creators themselves. He has a point in stating that this is a deeply unequal system which thinks twice before targeting FM stations and big corporations but goes after the powerless stage musicians. That Raaja is going after both at least means he isn't a despicable hypocrite. That he says he isn't bothered about the amount with respect to stage musicians and they pay him whatever they deem fit, however less, to merely respect his copyright is a consolation. But why even go after stage musicians is a good question and a discussion to have IMO.

Recent distractions by IR could partly be due to his recent "associates". 
(And possibly otherwise engineered by older associates / family members).

He didn't have time for all these stuff prior.

For some reason, I keep getting some rAsA comparison for the current kuRaL adhikAram I'm running in recent times

Look at this post of today, for e.g. : 
https://ilayaraja.forumms.net/t118p480-454#20051

Drunkenmunk wrote:

Kr wrote:

crimson king wrote:Because others are doing it doesn't justify IR's position either.  It may be wrong for the Cine Musicians Union to deny IR's share of royalties but royalties shouldn't be charged for stage performance of songs in the first place.  Actually this is typical of how things work in India.  They don't want to take on the radio stations who have financial muscle but they want to target stage musicians who have no option but to fall in line.  I fully support IR's stand on the former in spite of how ill timed it is because he is right in principle.  But asking stage musicians to pay royalty is terribly unfair.

I am gathering all this from IR's speech.  The stage musicians already pay the royalty but they pay to IPRS.  IR's contention is that IPRS is not distributing the proceeds accurately and does not provide proper accounting.  All that IR is asking is create something that is rival to IPRS and pay them instead so that the money goes to the people it is meant for rather than the guys managing IPRS.  I didnt get the sense that the stage singers were not paying anything thus far and IR is demanding them to pay hitherto.

I gather that CK in principle is opposed to gathering royalty from stage musicians. Whether it is gathered from IPRS (who don't share it with the creators) or the creators themselves. He has a point in stating that this is a deeply unequal system which thinks twice before targeting FM stations and big corporations but goes after the powerless stage musicians. That Raaja is going after both at least means he isn't a despicable hypocrite. That he says he isn't bothered about the amount  - with respect to stage musicians and they pay him whatever they deem fit, however less, to merely respect his copyright is a consolation. But why even go after stage musicians is a good question and a discussion to have IMO.

What I gathered from his speech was that he went to the stage guys to begin the revolt against the IPRS.  The other thing I disagree is IR is doing this because of his sudden need for money.  If money and greed was driving him, there are so may other things he could do that probably would bring him more cash right away such as making nice with all those guys he swore he would not work with - with the maniratnams, bharathiraja, shankars of the world.  There were recent reports that he refused to work with Madan Karky recently - again if money was driving him, I think he would have done those things to make a quick buck.  IR has always been principled and I think thats behind it.  I dont know if many of you know that in the early, mid 80s after he worked for a few movies with AVM, he had a dispute with them over copyrights and royalty.  That was the time when AVM decided to end providing opportunities for IR - point is that he has always stood for what he thought was right.  

I have been following IR since 1976 (I was in high school when his first film was released) and have been a big fan and have been following him since.  Not that it provides me any special expertise in this matter but contrary to how he is portrayed, having followed him long my admiration for him both as a person and as MD has not changed a bit - infact only grown over the years.

Kr wrote:
I have been following IR since 1976 (I was in high school when his first film was released) and have been a big fan and have been following him since.  Not that it provides me any special expertise in this matter but contrary to how he is portrayed, having followed him long my admiration for him both as a person and as MD has not changed a bit - infact only grown over the years.

Being from the same age group and a very similar experience with IR & his music all these years, I'm finding his recent alliance with the producer sangam somewhat not in line with his track record.

His recent indulgences such as a) the fan club biz b) the "ammA annadhAnam" stuff c) taking part in the re-swearing of JJ and d) this openly asking stage-singers to pay - do not seem to be in line with his hitherto lifestyle.

I would not rule out at least some KR pressure for money and some kalaippuli pressure for political mileage. rAsAvukku idhellAm definite distractions & music will suffer in some way.

If only the TN gov (or Indian gov) does something to nationalize his works / pay honorarium, we'll all be benefited in many ways.

Especially to free him up from unnecessary distractions and give more gifts to public (i.e. precious music)

Yeah, targeting online fan clubs for using his name was another 'WTH' stunt.  It all adds up, it's not a one off lapse.

Lovely Nazar..... Nicely explaining the experience about IR for Thendral vandhu theendum podhu......

karuppu vellai pugaipadamai Ramana maharishi... pakkathil amma engira athmavin pugaipadam... arugil... 
karuppu vellaiyil 3D yaga ILAIYARAJA....


andha araiyil ondrum ilali...  anal ondru irundhadhu... Amaidhi.....

Chocolate  adhai patri sonna vidham....  unmaiyana manadhai sonna Nazar..... adhai avar azhaga nadithu kaatiya vidham....Real Artist..... romba nijamana
expression.......... Beautiful........

Oru Nyani.. oru Nyana sooniyam.. idharku idaiyil epadi kalai uruvaradhu nu theriyalai......

nalla iruku nu sonna edhu nalla iruku.... nalla illai nu sonna edhu nalla illanu....... lovely....

unmaiyai sollum Nazar ai rasikum IR.... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoVhrKGjKT4

1. aala pol vela pol from violin vicky
   
   
   
2. Another factor is mystical and musical which I couldn't explain earlier but probably understand now. Even though it is composed on a regular major scale platform, it always sounded to me as if its unlike other similar songs of Raaja. I think it could be due to unusual hinge on a 2 - 6 - 9 (i.e., ri - dha - ri ) phrasing found all over the song. For instance during the finishing of the pallavi, during "Sonnadha nannum", On the second interlude strings ensemble etc, 
   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzejYvdLp44

gnAni tried to shout at IR in his FB page and the same is refuted by JeMo here:
http://www.jeyamohan.in/77246#.VbJIPbNVikp

ராஜா எம்.எஸ்.வி மீது கொண்டிருந்த பெருமதிப்பை நான் கண்டிருக்கிறேன். எம்.எஸ்.வியின் பாடல்களை ராஜா பாராட்டி நெகிழ்ந்து எனக்குப் பாடிக்காட்டிய அரிய அனுபவமும் உண்டு.அவர்களுக்கிடையேனான உறவு என்பது நம் சமகாலத்து அற்புதங்களில் ஒன்று. ராஜா எம்.எஸ்.விக்குச் செய்த பெரும் பொருளியல் உதவிகளையும் நான் தனிப்பட்ட முறையில் நன்கு அறிவேன். எம்.எஸ்.வியின் தன்மதிப்பு பாதிப்படையாமல் அதை ராஜா செய்வதில் இருந்த நளினமான பாவனைகளைக் கண்டு நெகிழ்ந்திருக்கிறேன். ஒரு தம்பியின் இடத்திலேயே என்றும் ராஜா எம்.எஸ்.விக்கு இருந்தார்.

The likes of Gnani are incorrigible. Good reply by Jayamohan.

Even YG Mahendran( a bigtime MSV fan) held a tribute concert. So is he also trying to make money out of this?

Next part in The Hindu - காற்றில் கலந்த இசை

இந்தப் படம் தோல்வியடைந்தது. ஆனால், வெற்றி தோல்விகள் படங்களுக்குத்தான்; இளையராஜாவின் பாடல்கள் அந்த எல்லையைக் கடந்தவை.
...
...
காதல், சோகம் எனும் பட்டியல் உணர்வுகளைத் தாண்டி மிக நுட்பமான உணர்வுகளைத் தரும் பாடல்களை உருவாக்கியதில் இளையராஜாவின் பங்கு மகத்தானது. அவற்றில் ஒன்று இப்பாடல். எச்சரிக்கை: இப்பாடல் யூட்யூபில் காட்சி வடிவிலும் கிடைக்கிறது. அதைக் கவனமாகத் தவிர்த்துவிட்டு, ஒலி வடிவில் மட்டும் இப்பாடலைக் கேட்பது நலம்.

geethA sangeethA by JC/Jency

IOKS used to broadcast this song so often those days!

"பச்சப்பொய்" அப்படீன்னு சொல்லுவாங்களே, அதற்கு எடுத்துக்காட்டு :



அதாவது, "என்னுள்ளில் MSV" நிகழ்ச்சியில் தான் ராசா முதன்முதலாக ஜானகியைப் புகழ்ந்திருக்கிறார் என்று ஜே.வ. சொல்லுகிறார். 


எப்போதெல்லாம் ராசா ஜானகியைப் புகழ்ந்திருக்கிறார் என்று பலரும் ட்விட்டரில் சுட்டிக்காட்டியவுடன் சத்தத்தைக்காணோம்.

தெரியாமல் சொல்லி இருந்தால் மன்னிப்புக்கேட்பது அவருக்கு நல்லது. 

இல்லாதபட்சத்திலும் ராசா தரப்புக்கு ஒன்றும் குறைந்து போய்விடாது. 
(அதாவது, "வேண்டுமென்றே ராசாவை அவதூறு செய்ய முயல்பவர்" என்று பலமுறை நாம் சொல்லி இருப்பது உறுதிப்படும்.)

BTW, JV is not a 90's born kid - who can get away saying that "I wasn't born then, didn't know about a lot of 70's 80's interviews of rAsA" etc.

He is 50 - lived as many years as myself so far and witnessed what all happened in TN very much like me! On top of it, claims happily that "he is an insider" (while we are outsiders).  What's more, he was a "music teacher" before becoming a TV artist / MD and claimed to have learnt a lot from IR in his musical career.

So, he should have known better.

Than throwing such blind and wild statements about a genius!

இது ஒன்னும் புதிதில்லை. ஜானகியே கூட ஒரு மலையாளம் ரியாலிட்டி ஷோவில் ராஜாவின் பெயரைக் குறிப்பிடாமல் மறைமுகமாக அவரை அசிங்கப்படுத்தி ஶ்ரீனிவாஸ் கூட நக்கலாக சிரித்தார். ஒரு டாக் ஷோவில் கூட ஜானகி ராஜாவைக் கடுமையாக விமர்சித்ததும் உண்டு. ஒரு சிறு சண்டைக்குப்பின் பிறகு ராஜா ஜானகியை மீண்டும் தன் இசையில் பாட வைக்க கெஞ்சினார் என்ற தொனியில் சொன்னார் ஜானகி.