Hindi film music - Old is Gold

plum wrote:Excellent story, munk. I guessed it was Salilda early in the story. Here's the bengali original:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQvcmBUd_uc.

Thanks! I've heard this before (both Bengali and Hindi). Most likely you suggested it on twitter. appolerndhu oru nerudal.

I think Pritam was heavily influenced by this song when he composed this:



Hindi version of Ra Ra Sarasukku Ra Ra/Oru Murai Vandhu Paarpaaya.

Great story, thanks for sharing, man.  One of the iconic Lata songs...so iconic it's been played a zillion times on radio and TV here and I could hardly bear to listen to it anymore (just like Aaj phir jeene ki tammana hai).

Not HFM but related.  A ghazal by the great Mehdi Hassan.  Have always been more of a Ghulam Ali fan and the utter disdain these days of ghazal aficionados towards Talat Mahmood while simultaneously calling Mehdi Hassan God and all that used to infuriate me.  But great music rises above any partisan considerations and one night of Mehdi specials on AIR did the trick.  This was the one I enjoyed most from their selection and am listening to it as I type.

It's a tough call, really.  There's Suhagan, has two of the most outstanding Rafi solos, not just among the ones he sang for MM but overall.  Mera Saaya has two outstanding Lata solos and ANOTHER amazing Rafi solo.  Mausam has two different and equally great versions of Dil Doondtha Hai and Lata on Ruke Ruke Se Kadam.  My personal favourite is Mausam.  Songs like Ruke Ruke pioneered the modern ghazal format, especially in terms of the way the guitar was handled.  Of course MM did it with very haunting tunes which his beneficiaries (chiefly Jagjit Singh) left out.  That Jagjit Singh has never been less than effusive in paying his tribute to MM still hasn't helped highlight his influence on the evolution of ghazals in India.  He breathed fresh life into the format as far as its use in Hindi films goes, at a time when RDB's rhythm revolution was crowding out the space for what may have been seen as somewhat antiquated music.

Tripping on these songs for the past few days, thanks to the interesting discussion on Naushad Ali's in Rudrama Devi's thread. This is not Naushad's songs, it is from the man who gave many immortal classics including the well known Chaudhvin Ka Chand, China Town, Nazrana Aaj Aur Kal and many more. Somehow he was shadowed by other music directors of that time, and he also went to score in Malayalam films. Yes, he is Ravi.

Today got up to these two classics, no words to write about the melody and the mood it brings. Rafi to top it, it is like a milk pEda dissolving in our tongue.

Husnwale Tera Jawab Nahin from Gharana  (1961) and soulful and romantic lyrics by Shakeel Badayuni. Perfect song for the night with moon light and stars.


Door Rehkar Na Karo Baat from Amaanat (1977), touching poetry by Sahir Ludhianvi. Sitar, flute and strings build the love story very strong.

Also Do Badan, which has three great Rafi solos.  

Guess he got overshadowed because (a) he didn't have a distinct stamp and apparently openly disdained the idea and (b) the only camp he was consistenly associated with was the B R Chopra camp who did films for Sunil Dutt, vis a vis Navketan for SDB, Jubilee Kumar/Shammi for SJ, Dileep Kumar for Naushad, etc.  Also B R Chopra fell out with Rafi and Ravi had to use Mahendra Kapoor for a lot of songs that might have gone to Rafi.

Thanks for the insights. Yes, Mahendra Kapoor's voice is almost like Rafi, but we can find out easily. He has sung some beautiful songs. All Hamraaz songs are also very nice, but can't help missing Rafi. They always say he is poor man's Rafi. Ravi has given some outstanding compositions, one of my top most favorites being Lage Na Mora Jiya from Ghunghat (1960) by Lata.

Lovely guitar tone on this RDB hit.  More Raja-like and not like the typical guitar tone they used in Hindi film music.  Before IR, RD had the best interludes overall though some specific interludes the other MDs produced may have been more gorgeous.

Another precious gem Mann Mora Bawra by OP Nayyar for Raagini (1958). Big surprise Rafi sings for Kishore on screen. What else you expect next. Usual Rafi/Kishore fan fights  Why Kishore is not singing for himself and all that. YT comments is full of that. But what a song!

This song reminded of another memorable Rafi song; Ajab Hai DastanTeri Ae Zindagi for Kishore, but this one was by Shankar-Jaikishen for Shararat (1959). One of my big favorites during Mumbai bachelor days and this has been on my regular playlist during the walk from my apartment room to the restaurant for dinner. The best part is had to wipe my tears before entering the restaurant. Such is the beauty of the song!

During that time, I knew to read and write Hindi (thanks to the part-time Hindi classes/lessons taught at my school - pratmik/madhyama passed). That was very helpful in Mumbai, learned to speak/understand fast (thanks to my friends, Hindi movies), but understanding the songs/lyrics was way difficult, as most of old songs used some Urdu. Also the Hindi words used were more poetic than colloquial. That's when I tortured some of my friends there, but they helped/taught me patiently. Even now, when Urdu/poetic words comes in between, I struggle, but those words add so much beauty to the songs and sit nicely.

Since my previous post/song has some beautiful lyrics, I can't help putting it together. The song is not coming out of my mind, since I grabbed it yesterday. SJ, Rafi and Hasrat Jaipuri ruled me all over night and till now. So thought of getting the lyrics (with meaning) out to share the beauty of this poem. Please correct me if there are mistakes.

I believe the situation is someone doubts about their relationship. You can even see in the above video, before the song ends, someone comes and apologizes for doubting them. The pain/hurt is clearly written by Hasrat Jaipuri that when people suspect pure and innocent relationship of mother and son, this relationship is only to be burnt/destroyed.

It's better to have the song play while you read the lyric to appreciate how it sits perfectly on the tune. Every line is so thought provoking and kindles deep emotions in us.

Ajab (strange) Hai Daastaan (story/tale) Teri(yours) Aye Zindagi (life)
Strange is your tale of life

Kabhi (sometimes) Ha(n)saa (laugh) Diya (do) Rula (weep) Diya Kabhi
Sometime you make me laugh, sometime you make me weep

Kali (bud) Khilne (blossom/flowering) Na (without) paayi (fulfil/possible) thi ke Shaakh (branch) hi Ujad (ruin/waste) gayee (gone)
The bud had hardly blossomed when the tree branch was ruined/wasted

Abhi Zara (little/less) Se The ke Hamse Pyaari (lovable/dear) Maa (mother) Bichhad (apart/distance) Gayee (gone)
When we were little, we lost our dear mother

O Aasmaan (sky/heaven) Bataa (tell)
O Heaven tell us

O Aasmaan Bataa Kiya Hamne (we) Thaa (were) Kya
O Heaven tell us who were/are we (or what we had done wrong)

Jo (that) Mili (got) Yeh (this) Sazaa (punishment)
That we got such a punishment

Jo Mili Yeh Sazaa

Ladakpan (childhood) mein hee (itself) yeh duniya (world) lutee (stolen/looted)
In our childhood itself this world was looted

Ajab Hai Daastaan Teri Aye Zindagi
Kabhi Ha(n)saa Diya Rula Diya Kabhi
Ajab Hai Daastaan Teri Aye Zindagi

Tum (you) Aayi(came) Maa Ki (motherly) Maamta (affection) Liye Toh Muskuraaye (smile) Hamm (we)
As you came with motherly affection and love, we smiled

Ke Jaise (just like) Phirse (again) Apne (our) Bachpan(childhood) Mein Laut (return) Aaye Hamm
Just like (feels like) our childhood has returned again

Tumhaare Pyaar Ke
because your love is
Tumhaare Pyaar Ke Isee (this) Aanchal (protective shelter) Tale
Your love is this protective shelter, under it

Phirse (again) Deepak (lamp) Jale (lighted)
the lamps are lighted again

Phirse Deepak Jale

Dhala (gone/declined) Andhera (dark) Jagee (arose/dawned) ( Raushani (brightness/light)
Gone is the darkness and the brightness dawned

Ajab Hai Daastaan Teri Aye Zindagi
Kabhi Ha(n)saa Diya Rula Diya Kabhi
Ajab Hai Daastaan Teri Aye Zindagi

Magar (but) Badaa (big) Hee Sangdil(stone-hearted) Hai Yeh Maalik (lord) Tera (your) Jahaan (world)
But this world (of yours) is stone-hearted my Lord

Yahan (here) Maa-Beton (mother-son) Pe  Bhi (even) Log (people) Uthaate (raise/point) Hai Ungliyaan (finger(s))
Here people even suspect (point finger) the relationship of mother and son

Kali yeh Pyaar Ki
This love bud

Kali (bud) yeh Pyaar (love) Ki Sulagate (burn) Reh Gayee (remain)
This love bud remains to be burnt

Har Taraf (everywhere) Aag (fire) Thi
Everywhere there was fire

Har Taraf (everywhere) Aag (fire) Thi (was)
everywhere there was fire

Ha(n)saane (spread laughter) Aayi (she came) Thi  Rulaakar (made weep) Chalee (left)
She had come to spread fun and laughter, but left me weeping

jab Hai Daastaan Teri Aye Zindagi
Kabhi Ha(n)saa Diya Rula Diya Kabhi
Ajab Hai Daastaan Teri Aye Zindagi

When Rafi sings in higher pitch (Kali yeh Pyaar Ki Sulagate Reh Gayee, Har Taraf Aag Thi) and immediately comes back (Ha(n)saane Aayi Thi  Rulaakar Chalee), he really made me weep. The mood he brings is unparalleled. Singing God!!

A perfect song!

Came across this song only recently.  I am a huge Rafi fan and not much of a fan at all of Mahendra Kapoor but I honestly don't think Rafi could have sung this any better than Mahendra Kapoor did here.  Brilliant, brilliant track, shades of Nainon Mein Bhadra Chaaye in the melody:

main khushnaseeb hoon ke tujhe maine paa liyaa
main khushnaseeb hoon ke tujhe maine paa liyaa
toone karam kiyaa mujhe apnaa banaa liyaa
aise mile hain ham ke bichhdnaa muhaal hai
jaan-e-bahaar husn teraa bemisaal hai
wallaah kamaal hai, arre wallaah kamaal hai haay
jaan-e-bahaar husn teraa bemisaal hai

Today I woke up to this classic, main jaan-e-bahaar husn tera bEmisaal from pyar kiya tO darna kya hai by one and only Rafi. Romance just flows out of Rafi. A beauty by Ravi. Excellent lines by Shakeel Badayuni.

I have been listening to Navrang (composed by C Ramchandra) songs many times (right from my childhood), but this is one soundtrack which always puzzles me (though not in positive way). It is an one hour soundtrack. Couple of songs are good. Every time, I listen to it, I make a sincere effort to listen (devotedly &) thoroughly to like it, but every time I fail in liking it, however hard I try. I heard many tell it is a masterpiece and all that, but to me, not a single song has that tiny bit of sweetness quotient to it. The chorus portions makes it even worse. Again I am not complaining about the recording quality. I am still curious to know how it was celebrated during that time. If it was composed now I can understand, since it was in 1959, it puzzles me a lot, since it was for a big and known film and a popular director (V Shantaram). Normally they don't miss such huge chances, but surprised the quality is average. I am not sure if it was because of the singer choices (Asha, C Ramchandra, Mahendra Kapoor, Bharat Vyas with no Rafi or Lata), but I don't think so. Or was it because they were mainly composed for dance sequences? Still tune itself is a non-starter to me. I didn't want to record it here, but just wanted to share, if you like these songs just wanted to know why you like these songs, so that I can re-listen and re-calibrate my senses

In case you want to listen

V_S wrote: Every time, I listen to it, I make a sincere effort to listen (devotedly &) thoroughly to like it, but every time I fail in liking it, however hard I try.

உங்களுக்கு ரொம்பப்  பொறுமை

நானெல்லாம் ராசா பாட்டே மறுபடி கேட்பது (அதாவது "முயற்சி செய்து ரசிப்பது") கடினம்

(முதல் முறை சூழல் சரியில்லாததால் கவனிக்கப்படாமல் விட்டு விட்டு, சரியான சூழலில் ரெண்டாவது முறை கேட்டு விருப்பப்பட்ட சில பாடல்கள் உண்டு, என்றாலும் நிறைய இல்லை).

Can't get over this haunting Mukesh solo (composed by RDB).  Have heard it many times but at some light music program I attended recently, somebody sang it and since then I have been listening to it again repeatedly. Very reminiscent of Shankar Jaikishan/Kalyanji Anandji's sad Mukesh solos, but the santoor/flute portions have RDB's unmistakable stamp.

Erm, browser is playing tracks so anyway the song is Suhani Chandni Raatein.

Tripping down memory and melody lane through RDB's Amar Prem yet again.  How many times you listen to these songs, you never get tired or bored. The classical firmness, sudden twists, yet the gentle taps reminds us of how soft, steady and slow were our lives then. These songs not only takes me to the time I first listened to them, they act as a guide and mentor all long my life. When old Hindi film music has so much pride and heritage, how mercilessly the current generation of music directors has wiped it all over in the name of music and trend and brought sheer shame to the film music industry. They don't have any clue on how to keep up with the tradition when we have ocean like indigenous resources left in us, instead they leach shamelessly upon west to cheat the listeners and them.



Where did this tradition go? It might not remain popular on youtube or on the internet compared to the new hit junkies, but it will firmly remain popular within the hearts and souls of music lovers, which in no way these YT hit count statisticians will ever guess.

V_S wrote:Where did this tradition go? It might not remain popular on youtube or on the internet compared to the new hit junkies, but it will firmly remain popular within the hearts and souls of music lovers, which in no way these YT hit count statisticians will ever guess.

If you're anywhere up north, it hasn't gone anywhere.  In fact, retro-playing radio stations command the highest marketshare. In Mumbai, we now have not one but three FM radio stations catering to old songs (all leaning to different periods from 60s to 90s) and that's apart from the govt run Akashvani. Clearly, Hindi music culture is in crisis since last couple or so years, as evidenced by the fact that a cover of Dheere Dheere Se Mere Zindagi Mein Aana is deemed worthy of release in a Bollywood film (and it manages to be worse than the original Kumar Sanu version)!  The thing is (maybe unlike Chennai, I am just guessing) here even 20-30 somethings are familiar with the old songs and at least wouldn't MIND listening to them while the 40 plus generation has completely tuned out of new songs.  I remember back in 2010 (before retro became a radio rage), I was going with my boss to the tax office by cab.  The cabbie was playing old songs and my boss asked him to switch to a station playing new songs.  When the cabbie refused, my boss asked him to stop playing the music (yeah, kind of rude).  The point is, podhu makkal are not much interested in new songs.  The total yuppie slant of Bollywood is starting to backfire as working class people feel disconnected from it. Even Salman Khan film songs aren't such big hits anymore as they used to be. Songs like Tere Mast Mast Do Nain or Dagabaaz were huge hits but the music of Sultan barely made a dent and likewise Bajrangi Bhaijaan.  Stage programmes by amateur/semi pro artists almost exclusively cater to old songs.  I was recently part of one and I tried to push for a new song for myself - not because I prefer them but because I have a tenor voice and the old songs are meant for baritone singers, except Rafi which is hard enough without being low for a zillion reasons - but they said audience wouldn't like it.

F
Good to know all this, especially from Mumbai. My mind wanders on the streets of Mumbai whenever I listen to these songs. I still remember searching for some theaters who play the old films, went and watched it during my bachelorhood. By tradition, I was mentioning the current music directors who completely gone all the way to west and also produce some awkward songs. Still there are some good exceptions in new Hindi/Marathi songs in the form of Bajirao Mastani, Katyar Kaljat Ghusli (towering peak), Sairat to name a few. By awkward, the melody has taken a U-turn that there are some mandates, that it has to be sung by some weird voices, with some styles and awkward sounds  (even in thamizh we can see this in Santhosh Narayan's and others songs). If it is a melody, the melody has to sound ugly, different and without any flow or hold, if not, it is not a melody. When the melody starts something in Indian/anonymous way, it ends of horribly with all the scream. Also they make a point that the melody should NEVER be caught by the listeners first time. They make a point for listeners to listen multiple times to get the melody. They unnecessarily complicate things just because they already earned a name/brand and they take people for granted that they would go for whatever they give and people also fall before them.

I read somewhere that Amit Trivedi says this about his recent Udta Punjab songs: "The film required a really dark soundtrack. So, I had to incorporate psychedelic trance and hip hop into it. It will be edgier and more in-your-face than anything else seen in Bollywood music before. I don't know how the audience will react to it because it is not something that we are used to. But I do know that there are people who have an appetite for psy-trance and hip hop in India.". 

I was listening to Udta Punjab songs (not soundtrack as background score was done by someone else, yet they call it a soundtrack), but I am still searching for the sweetness in just one song or just one sweet moment. I am not finding any, but they don't fail to make big statements such as above

Another thing I noticed is that there is too much of qawwali/rap/hip-hop style songs/interludes/beats (clapping rhythm) in almost 1 out of 5 songs now. They are interlaced between melodies which takes out the beauty of the song and made to sound so template'd, repetitive and tiresome. This disease has even carried from north to bottom up to Kerala (yes talking about Kismath malayalam film and many recent films), which implies many music directors does not know a way to fill the interludes, because most of them don't have a clue or a novel way of playing (live) instruments, so they opt an easy way out of including a easy qawwali/rap chorus/beats which can easily fill the song without any novel ideas. Same way if we look closely, we can hear only two live instruments tabla (that too via keyboard?) and piano, all other instruments are almost at the verge of becoming extinct.

Also, many recent songs if you happen to see the timing of the song, it got reduced to 3 to under 4 minutes. This also suggests that they either want to wrap the song fast (only one pallavi/charanam) as they run of out ideas on the interludes and/or run out of ideas composing more lines of melody. Even if it is a 5 minute song, novel ideas in playing instruments has become a distant story. They are just so anxious in filling up the space/time with repeated patterns. The amount of effort they put in a song is also very minimum (which they instead call minimalist approach ). Literally they are struggling mainly because they lack understanding CINEMA

Agreed about the singing.  But you know, I have heard Naresh Iyer sing Sundari Kannal in some TV programme and it was horrible. His voice has no power.  Barring Haricharan, there isn't really anybody from the males who can convincingly do melody songs in the traditional way.  The quality is better in the case of the females with Shreya Ghoshal probably on her way to going down as one of the greats.  That being the case, music directors have to make/let the guys sing in a sort of weird way even in what might otherwise be a normal song.  Actually there is quality in Hindi if we look at the singers who win Sa Re Ga Ma Pa/Indian Idol but I don't understand why Kamal Khan (Ishq Sufiyana) doesn't get more songs and I don't know that Vipul Mehta (winner of the last-to-date Indian Idol season) has got any songs at all. 

I understood earlier too that you meant the current songs are far away from the tradition.  What I was saying was the tradition per se isn't out of fashion by any means and is beginning to rule the radiowaves again.  What SPB said in that Bosskey interview really nailed it: it's not enough to just sing a melody when you are doing playback, you have to sort of enact the song.  That expression, soul is missing for the most part in the way today's singers sing.  That's because so few of them pay attention to phrasing which is by far the most important aspect of melodic singing.  Mukesh got away with a nasal tone because his phrasing was the best bar none (and that Suhaani Chandni Raatein song is a case in point). Today, singers think singing is about having the range to hit the notes and being able to execute complicated, intricate passages.  While those are important considerations, how you sing the words is what finally makes an impression on the audience.

So I had the chance to attend a Shreya Ghoshal concert the other day.  She does not often perform in hometown Mumbai (big surprise!) and this show was in Shanmukhanandha Hall which was set up and is still managed by Mumbai Tamilvaasis! Shankar Jaikishen's shows used to be held here and one of my distant uncles, a chartered accountant by trade but passionate about music, 'learnt' conducting by watching these shows.  Shreya herself modestly said she felt privileged to sing in this iconic venue.  Well, she more than proved herself worthy of the privilege.  I went in expecting a good show since she is a well trained singer but she was incredible.  Unfortunately modern compressed recordings don't do justice to what she really sounds like and her voice is much fuller and stronger when you hear her in person and she has a way of moving her level from really soft to full blast opened out in a beautiful arc that is breathtaking to behold (and again, simply not captured in the recordings). She is also supremely confident of executing variations and - I hate to be partisan - has a Bengali's fine sensibilities which restrain her from overdoing it.  Sangidhis flow like velvet when she sings, so smooth and effortless is her execution. 

Her cover of Lata's Kya Janu Sajan was so haunting I'd have cried had she sung a second antara and I don't really cry to music very much at all.  It's no wonder really that Ilayaraja has given her so many songs (and was among the very early movers in terms of giving her opportunities when she was establishing herself in Bollywood).  No doubt he spotted a once in a lifetime talent.  She made me listen to crap Bollywood songs that I really don't care for just because her singing was so out of the world; at least IR has been around and still prolific else her talent would have been largely wasted.  

If you should ever get a chance to attend her shows, don't miss it. I should also add that she has developed a great stage presence or whatever you call it and this is not so evident when you watch her perform in IR's shows where she stays put in one place.  In the show I attended, she covered the entire length of the stage over and over and unlike so many of our playback singers rarely ever referred to the lyrics from a book/tab while singing.  It was a very long show, going over 3 1/2 hours but it still felt like it had been over too soon. I have seen some truly amazing artists perform live, including the late great Mandolin Srinivas, and would like to believe I am not easily impressed but that was the most incredible exhibition of vocal skills I have had the opportunity of hearing.