Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

How Ilaiyaraaja Reshaped His Music With Modern Directors: Collaborating With Bala, Balki, Mysskin And Kamal Haasan

The music in Illaiyaraaja’s collaborations with directors like Bala, Balki, Kamal Haasan, Prakash Raj and Mysskin isn’t about making independent hits, which could bring audiences to the theatre. This is music that captures abstract ideas in a story and makes them evocative by converting them to sounds

BC wrote:Some of the BEST tributes so far:

1. Amrita TV (Malayalam channel) - Singer Krishnachandran, Composer M. Jayachandran and Percussionist M.R.V. Rajesh talking about IR.  NO-nonsense and pretty comprehensive.
Turns out Krishnachandran is the executive producer of the channel.  He is undoubtedly an HCIRF!  Very sweet tribute.
   


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Anchor Vishan - Some key points have been spelt out (though IRFs know it) like hitting the nail right on its head, and delivered Mark Antony-style!

His views on some songs of IR are also good, presented in the channel "Million Views".

  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Drummer Sridhar presenting Vaa vaa kanmani (movie: Innisai Mazhai).  A very difficult one, handled with ease!

crimson king wrote:

BC wrote:Some of the BEST tributes so far:

1. Amrita TV (Malayalam channel) - Singer Krishnachandran, Composer M. Jayachandran and Percussionist M.R.V. Rajesh talking about IR.  NO-nonsense and pretty comprehensive.
Turns out Krishnachandran is the executive producer of the channel.  He is undoubtedly an HCIRF!  Very sweet tribute.
   


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Anchor Vishan - Some key points have been spelt out (though IRFs know it) like hitting the nail right on its head, and delivered Mark Antony-style!

His views on some songs of IR are also good, presented in the channel "Million Views".

  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Drummer Sridhar presenting Vaa vaa kanmani (movie: Innisai Mazhai).  A very difficult one, handled with ease!

Agree with most of Vishan's points and as you said, this is all stuff we already know.  I only slightly disagree with the point about remix of IR old songs sounding fresh.  I mean, yes they do but so too Ponmagal Vandhal was remixed and numerous Hindi songs were remixed in the 90s.  Remix became a whole industry then and I distinctly remember the same characters like Sonu Nigam who complain today about T Series forcing remix in every film defending the practice of remix then.  Adhavdhu, a semi decent tune can be remixed to sound peppy and contemporary.  It doesn't say much because remix by itself is an endeavour devoid of creativity.

And regarding the point about overt-deification, conflating it with the inability of forward caste people to discriminate against him is disingenuous.  Again, there is a grain of truth to it but that's not everything.  Gangai has himself mentioned how Raja had started rewarding Vaali for being ever willing to mouth sycophantic praise for him equating him to God (this was in the early 90s) and that when he (Gangai) pointed out to Raja that he is an amazing talent but not God and shouldn't start believing such false praise, he didn't like it (and this led to their fallout).  We can dispute what Gangai said all day but the fact is at a certain point, Raja came to enjoy this sycophancy. This is natural and normal so we shouldn't feel defensive about it.  Nobody is completely immune to sycophancy and if Raja started to fall for it after the most productive and prolific run in the history of film music, it's no big deal. 

In fact, I like that he concluded it on that note.  This is what I have always said.  It's a lost cause to keep trying to manufacture a narrative to show he is not arrogant but actually humble.  So what if Raja has arrogance?  He has earned it.  It's in his name.  Raja.  He has every right to flaunt his achievements like a king. He is the emperor of music.

ravinat wrote:

crimson king wrote:

BC wrote:Some of the BEST tributes so far:

1. Amrita TV (Malayalam channel) - Singer Krishnachandran, Composer M. Jayachandran and Percussionist M.R.V. Rajesh talking about IR.  NO-nonsense and pretty comprehensive.
Turns out Krishnachandran is the executive producer of the channel.  He is undoubtedly an HCIRF!  Very sweet tribute.
   


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Anchor Vishan - Some key points have been spelt out (though IRFs know it) like hitting the nail right on its head, and delivered Mark Antony-style!

His views on some songs of IR are also good, presented in the channel "Million Views".

  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Drummer Sridhar presenting Vaa vaa kanmani (movie: Innisai Mazhai).  A very difficult one, handled with ease!

Agree with most of Vishan's points and as you said, this is all stuff we already know.  I only slightly disagree with the point about remix of IR old songs sounding fresh.  I mean, yes they do but so too Ponmagal Vandhal was remixed and numerous Hindi songs were remixed in the 90s.  Remix became a whole industry then and I distinctly remember the same characters like Sonu Nigam who complain today about T Series forcing remix in every film defending the practice of remix then.  Adhavdhu, a semi decent tune can be remixed to sound peppy and contemporary.  It doesn't say much because remix by itself is an endeavour devoid of creativity.

And regarding the point about overt-deification, conflating it with the inability of forward caste people to discriminate against him is disingenuous.  Again, there is a grain of truth to it but that's not everything.  Gangai has himself mentioned how Raja had started rewarding Vaali for being ever willing to mouth sycophantic praise for him equating him to God (this was in the early 90s) and that when he (Gangai) pointed out to Raja that he is an amazing talent but not God and shouldn't start believing such false praise, he didn't like it (and this led to their fallout).  We can dispute what Gangai said all day but the fact is at a certain point, Raja came to enjoy this sycophancy. This is natural and normal so we shouldn't feel defensive about it.  Nobody is completely immune to sycophancy and if Raja started to fall for it after the most productive and prolific run in the history of film music, it's no big deal. 

In fact, I like that he concluded it on that note.  This is what I have always said.  It's a lost cause to keep trying to manufacture a narrative to show he is not arrogant but actually humble.  So what if Raja has arrogance?  He has earned it.  It's in his name.  Raja.  He has every right to flaunt his achievements like a king. He is the emperor of music.

CK,

  For all those who say he is arrogant, I have only one event to point out that no musician has ever done in history. I recently saw a movie of Wagner (YT). OMG , he was a personification of arrogance. He was Hitler's favorite (much after his time) and was a complete anti-Semitist. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7oWZq_s_Sk

 That does not take away anything from Wagner's contributions to WCM.

  I am digressing.

  In 2013, before a crowd of 100,000 people in Chennai and a program that was widely telecasted, reaching millions, on the occasion of the launch of NEPV, here is what he said.

"This is Franco Nemec. He is a very sought after Jazz drummer. I invited him to come to Chennai a week ago. Karthik and I are learning Jazz drumming techniques from him"

Where was the need for him to say that he was still learning? He could just say Franco's name and be done with it. You need that utmost dedication in learning music at any age. That is what Raja demonstrated on that day. It stood higher by several orders of magnitude over his NEPV score. My respect for the man went up by an equal measure.

  If people still call him arrogant, they simply do not understand music, not just the music of Raja.

crimson king wrote:
how does it matter if he is arrogant? 

app_engine wrote:Fortunately, most of the public - who value humility as the major virtue in humans - have absolutely no need to deal with IR 1:1

Those who had to work with him (musicians / directors / producers etc) only had to worry about his attitude and none of us need to care. (I would rather get great music from him than give him the title of "most humble person on earth" )

ravinat wrote:

crimson king wrote:

BC wrote:Some of the BEST tributes so far:

1. Amrita TV (Malayalam channel) - Singer Krishnachandran, Composer M. Jayachandran and Percussionist M.R.V. Rajesh talking about IR.  NO-nonsense and pretty comprehensive.
Turns out Krishnachandran is the executive producer of the channel.  He is undoubtedly an HCIRF!  Very sweet tribute.
   


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Anchor Vishan - Some key points have been spelt out (though IRFs know it) like hitting the nail right on its head, and delivered Mark Antony-style!

His views on some songs of IR are also good, presented in the channel "Million Views".

  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Drummer Sridhar presenting Vaa vaa kanmani (movie: Innisai Mazhai).  A very difficult one, handled with ease!

Agree with most of Vishan's points and as you said, this is all stuff we already know.  I only slightly disagree with the point about remix of IR old songs sounding fresh.  I mean, yes they do but so too Ponmagal Vandhal was remixed and numerous Hindi songs were remixed in the 90s.  Remix became a whole industry then and I distinctly remember the same characters like Sonu Nigam who complain today about T Series forcing remix in every film defending the practice of remix then.  Adhavdhu, a semi decent tune can be remixed to sound peppy and contemporary.  It doesn't say much because remix by itself is an endeavour devoid of creativity.

And regarding the point about overt-deification, conflating it with the inability of forward caste people to discriminate against him is disingenuous.  Again, there is a grain of truth to it but that's not everything.  Gangai has himself mentioned how Raja had started rewarding Vaali for being ever willing to mouth sycophantic praise for him equating him to God (this was in the early 90s) and that when he (Gangai) pointed out to Raja that he is an amazing talent but not God and shouldn't start believing such false praise, he didn't like it (and this led to their fallout).  We can dispute what Gangai said all day but the fact is at a certain point, Raja came to enjoy this sycophancy. This is natural and normal so we shouldn't feel defensive about it.  Nobody is completely immune to sycophancy and if Raja started to fall for it after the most productive and prolific run in the history of film music, it's no big deal. 

In fact, I like that he concluded it on that note.  This is what I have always said.  It's a lost cause to keep trying to manufacture a narrative to show he is not arrogant but actually humble.  So what if Raja has arrogance?  He has earned it.  It's in his name.  Raja.  He has every right to flaunt his achievements like a king. He is the emperor of music.

CK,

  For all those who say he is arrogant, I have only one event to point out that no musician has ever done in history. I recently saw a movie of Wagner (YT). OMG , he was a personification of arrogance. He was Hitler's favorite (much after his time) and was a complete anti-Semitist. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7oWZq_s_Sk

 That does not take away anything from Wagner's contributions to WCM.

  I am digressing.

  In 2013, before a crowd of 100,000 people in Chennai and a program that was widely telecasted, reaching millions, on the occasion of the launch of NEPV, here is what he said.

"This is Franco Nemec. He is a very sought after Jazz drummer. I invited him to come to Chennai a week ago. Karthik and I are learning Jazz drumming techniques from him"

Where was the need for him to say that he was still learning? He could just say Franco's name and be done with it. You need that utmost dedication in learning music at any age. That is what Raja demonstrated on that day. It stood higher by several orders of magnitude over his NEPV score. My respect for the man went up by an equal measure.

  If people still call him arrogant, they simply do not understand music, not just the music of Raja.

crimson king wrote:

BC wrote:Some of the BEST tributes so far:

1. Amrita TV (Malayalam channel) - Singer Krishnachandran, Composer M. Jayachandran and Percussionist M.R.V. Rajesh talking about IR.  NO-nonsense and pretty comprehensive.
Turns out Krishnachandran is the executive producer of the channel.  He is undoubtedly an HCIRF!  Very sweet tribute.
   


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Anchor Vishan - Some key points have been spelt out (though IRFs know it) like hitting the nail right on its head, and delivered Mark Antony-style!

His views on some songs of IR are also good, presented in the channel "Million Views".

  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Drummer Sridhar presenting Vaa vaa kanmani (movie: Innisai Mazhai).  A very difficult one, handled with ease!

Agree with most of Vishan's points and as you said, this is all stuff we already know.  I only slightly disagree with the point about remix of IR old songs sounding fresh.  I mean, yes they do but so too Ponmagal Vandhal was remixed and numerous Hindi songs were remixed in the 90s.  Remix became a whole industry then and I distinctly remember the same characters like Sonu Nigam who complain today about T Series forcing remix in every film defending the practice of remix then.  Adhavdhu, a semi decent tune can be remixed to sound peppy and contemporary.  It doesn't say much because remix by itself is an endeavour devoid of creativity.

And regarding the point about overt-deification, conflating it with the inability of forward caste people to discriminate against him is disingenuous.  Again, there is a grain of truth to it but that's not everything.  Gangai has himself mentioned how Raja had started rewarding Vaali for being ever willing to mouth sycophantic praise for him equating him to God (this was in the early 90s) and that when he (Gangai) pointed out to Raja that he is an amazing talent but not God and shouldn't start believing such false praise, he didn't like it (and this led to their fallout).  We can dispute what Gangai said all day but the fact is at a certain point, Raja came to enjoy this sycophancy. This is natural and normal so we shouldn't feel defensive about it.  Nobody is completely immune to sycophancy and if Raja started to fall for it after the most productive and prolific run in the history of film music, it's no big deal. 

In fact, I like that he concluded it on that note.  This is what I have always said.  It's a lost cause to keep trying to manufacture a narrative to show he is not arrogant but actually humble.  So what if Raja has arrogance?  He has earned it.  It's in his name.  Raja.  He has every right to flaunt his achievements like a king. He is the emperor of music.

app_engine wrote:

crimson king wrote:
how does it matter if he is arrogant? 

In an odd way, I found that whenever he was in "that mode" (i.e. ""நாங்க என்ன போடறோமோ அதை நீங்க கேட்டுத்தான் ஆகணும், அது உங்க தலையெழுத்து" attitude), his musical output was AWESOME

And I've stated this in mayyam.com as well.

i.e. When he was in that state (which made ordinary people like us term him arrogant etc), the quality of his output was peaking.

So, contrary to the general perception, I find that for a music composer, it matters / helps

crimson king wrote:

app_engine wrote:

crimson king wrote:
how does it matter if he is arrogant? 

In an odd way, I found that whenever he was in "that mode" (i.e. ""நாங்க என்ன போடறோமோ அதை நீங்க கேட்டுத்தான் ஆகணும், அது உங்க தலையெழுத்து" attitude), his musical output was AWESOME

And I've stated this in mayyam.com as well.

i.e. When he was in that state (which made ordinary people like us term him arrogant etc), the quality of his output was peaking.

So, contrary to the general perception, I find that for a music composer, it matters / helps

Absolutely it does and this is the point the youtuber made in his video too - that some amount of ego is necessary for 'sadhanai'.  It is the ego of a champion.  

As usual, when I say the same thing, this forum gets up in arms so I appreciate your support.  I too believe that ego used to reflect in his output because it was so stylish and flamboyant then.   It's like, would you ask Vivian Richards to strain and appear humble?  No way.  I think of Raja as a musical Vivian Richards, swashbuckling and pathbreaking to jawdropping proportions. 

I don't want him to be a saint and to BC's point, no, he's NOT God and I don't want him to have to pretend to be God. All I want from Raja is awesome music and I have no other expectation from him.  I don't care if Rajni or other star camps (or ARR camp  ) emphasise 'humility'. I am a Raja fan and I only got on the ride for the music.  Why should it be any other way?  Like most people here, I HEARD Raja songs long before I saw how he looks. His personality traits are irrelevant here because his music spoke and speaks loud and clear.

crimson king wrote:

app_engine wrote:

crimson king wrote:
how does it matter if he is arrogant? 

In an odd way, I found that whenever he was in "that mode" (i.e. ""நாங்க என்ன போடறோமோ அதை நீங்க கேட்டுத்தான் ஆகணும், அது உங்க தலையெழுத்து" attitude), his musical output was AWESOME

And I've stated this in mayyam.com as well.

i.e. When he was in that state (which made ordinary people like us term him arrogant etc), the quality of his output was peaking.

So, contrary to the general perception, I find that for a music composer, it matters / helps

Absolutely it does and this is the point the youtuber made in his video too - that some amount of ego is necessary for 'sadhanai'.  It is the ego of a champion.  

As usual, when I say the same thing, this forum gets up in arms so I appreciate your support.  I too believe that ego used to reflect in his output because it was so stylish and flamboyant then.   It's like, would you ask Vivian Richards to strain and appear humble?  No way.  I think of Raja as a musical Vivian Richards, swashbuckling and pathbreaking to jawdropping proportions. 

I don't want him to be a saint and to BC's point, no, he's NOT God and I don't want him to have to pretend to be God. All I want from Raja is awesome music and I have no other expectation from him.  I don't care if Rajni or other star camps (or ARR camp  ) emphasise 'humility'. I am a Raja fan and I only got on the ride for the music.  Why should it be any other way?  Like most people here, I HEARD Raja songs long before I saw how he looks. His personality traits are irrelevant here because his music spoke and speaks loud and clear.

ravinat wrote:

crimson king wrote:

app_engine wrote:

crimson king wrote:
how does it matter if he is arrogant? 

In an odd way, I found that whenever he was in "that mode" (i.e. ""நாங்க என்ன போடறோமோ அதை நீங்க கேட்டுத்தான் ஆகணும், அது உங்க தலையெழுத்து" attitude), his musical output was AWESOME

And I've stated this in mayyam.com as well.

i.e. When he was in that state (which made ordinary people like us term him arrogant etc), the quality of his output was peaking.

So, contrary to the general perception, I find that for a music composer, it matters / helps

Absolutely it does and this is the point the youtuber made in his video too - that some amount of ego is necessary for 'sadhanai'.  It is the ego of a champion.  

As usual, when I say the same thing, this forum gets up in arms so I appreciate your support.  I too believe that ego used to reflect in his output because it was so stylish and flamboyant then.   It's like, would you ask Vivian Richards to strain and appear humble?  No way.  I think of Raja as a musical Vivian Richards, swashbuckling and pathbreaking to jawdropping proportions. 

I don't want him to be a saint and to BC's point, no, he's NOT God and I don't want him to have to pretend to be God. All I want from Raja is awesome music and I have no other expectation from him.  I don't care if Rajni or other star camps (or ARR camp  ) emphasise 'humility'. I am a Raja fan and I only got on the ride for the music.  Why should it be any other way?  Like most people here, I HEARD Raja songs long before I saw how he looks. His personality traits are irrelevant here because his music spoke and speaks loud and clear.

I totally agree with your perspective on his 'arrogance' by the general clueless public.  As the YT video guy says, everybody is entitled to some arrogance based on their level of contribution.  The same IR will not sit down in front of MSV when he worked with him on projects. The same IR, pushes MSV's son who wanted him to compose music for 'Senthamizh Paatu' - he told him that he will not agree to the project, if his father is not in the project. Musically, he is not arrogant at all. That is my point. The rest of worldly matters does not matter.

As a corollary to this argument, if others are truly not musically arrogant, we should have got at least another 20 'Mella thirandhadhu kadhavu' by now.

crimson king wrote:James Vasanthan recounting his experience of watching the recording of Antha Nilavathan BGMs plus BGM AND vocals of Vetti Veru Vasam.  On the same day!

James Vasant's experience was a delight to listen. He echoes the fanboyism of many of us here.