Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

Another song that got played yesterday falls into the same category - 'nAdham ezhundhadhadi' (SJ-KJY, don't know which movie).

The top attraction is the first interlude! Simply out of the world!

Now, can any other IFM MD imagine and provide something like that?

BTW, rest of the song is - by IR standards - average IMHO

app_engine wrote:

Raaga_Suresh wrote:Here is my analysis of 1995

Part 1: https://onlyraja.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/1995-the-musical-year-of-raja-part-1/
Part 2: https://onlyraja.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/1995-the-musical-year-of-raja-part-2/
Part 3: https://onlyraja.wordpress.com/2013/04/15/1995-musical-year-of-raja-part-3/

Sureshji,
nanRi for reminding that wonderful series of posts. (Is there still some balance in that account )

BTW, I see Madan / rothrocks / CK's long comment below your 1995 part 3 above, from the year 2013.

Just to point out that it is not a sudden / recent "eurEkA" moment for him based on adhO mEga oorvalam. That way, don't know if it were a "hasty job" to write that BRangan blog post

Possibly something he had formed as a personal opinion over years

lol, why would it be anything other than just my personal opinion?  I have spent most of my life thus far in the most individualistic of Indian cities and on top of it I am an introvert and a cultural contrarian.  When my classmates were listening to indipop, I was into Rafi/Asha etc. So I am not part of any group per se and have no agenda. Hearing the Adho Megha song that day was the trigger to compose this article and I just thought of submitting it to BR's blog instead of putting it in my blog.  Even at the time of the NEPV release, I had said I felt the anger in IR's music after a long, long time. I 'like' all the eras of his work but I am an unabashed 80s IR fan.  I want a kick when I listen to his music.  I will do calm when I am old enough to need that and that isn't right now, far from it. And on top of that, I am a bit of a purist, aesthetically, and genuinely don't like the filmi-isms he introduced in the early 90s in some, not all tracks. I can abide by it because it's IR but if it was anybody else, I would just turn off the track.

crimson king wrote:
lol, why would it be anything other than just my personal opinion?  

The background is some twitter thread that came on my timeline (with reference to your blog post).

So, the key part in my post above is "over years" (and not as to whether an opinion or fact).

எவிடெஸ் கதிர் என்ற புது லூசு

http://chennaionline.com/article/%E0%AE%A8%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%9F%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%AE%E0%AF%8D-%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%8B%E0%AE%9F%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%9F%E0%AE%A4%E0%AF%81-%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%8B%E0%AE%A4%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%AE%E0%AF%8D-%E0%AE%87%E0%AE%B3%E0%AF%88%E0%AE%AF%E0%AE%B0%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%9C%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%B5%E0%AF%88-%E0%AE%B5%E0%AF%86%E0%AE%B3%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%A4%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%A4-%E0%AE%9A%E0%AE%AE%E0%AF%82%E0%AE%95-%E0%AE%9A%E0%AF%87%E0%AE%B5%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%B0%E0%AF%8D

Exactly.... loosudhaan.....I was not alive when Sri. Subramanya Bharatiyaar was alive but it was tough to digest how he was castigated when he was alive...but what they are doing to another genius from TN, Ilaiyaraaja brings that to life.....

app_engine wrote:Another song that got played yesterday falls into the same category - 'nAdham ezhundhadhadi' (SJ-KJY, don't know which movie).

The top attraction is the first interlude! Simply out of the world!

Now, can any other IFM MD imagine and provide something like that?

BTW, rest of the song is - by IR standards - average IMHO

Gopura Vasalile.

Sakalakala Vallavar wrote:எவிடெஸ் கதிர் என்ற புது லூசு

http://chennaionline.com/article/%E0%AE%A8%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%9F%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%AE%E0%AF%8D-%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%8B%E0%AE%9F%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%9F%E0%AE%A4%E0%AF%81-%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%8B%E0%AE%A4%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%AE%E0%AF%8D-%E0%AE%87%E0%AE%B3%E0%AF%88%E0%AE%AF%E0%AE%B0%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%9C%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%B5%E0%AF%88-%E0%AE%B5%E0%AF%86%E0%AE%B3%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%A4%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%A4-%E0%AE%9A%E0%AE%AE%E0%AF%82%E0%AE%95-%E0%AE%9A%E0%AF%87%E0%AE%B5%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%B0%E0%AF%8D

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1137387179724339&set=a.342665752529823.1073741872.100003592026417&type=3

posted a 5 part reply in coments section

Sakalakala Vallavar wrote:

Sakalakala Vallavar wrote:எவிடெஸ் கதிர் என்ற புது லூசு

http://chennaionline.com/article/%E0%AE%A8%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%9F%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%AE%E0%AF%8D-%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%8B%E0%AE%9F%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%9F%E0%AE%A4%E0%AF%81-%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%8B%E0%AE%A4%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%AE%E0%AF%8D-%E0%AE%87%E0%AE%B3%E0%AF%88%E0%AE%AF%E0%AE%B0%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%9C%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%B5%E0%AF%88-%E0%AE%B5%E0%AF%86%E0%AE%B3%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%A4%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%A4-%E0%AE%9A%E0%AE%AE%E0%AF%82%E0%AE%95-%E0%AE%9A%E0%AF%87%E0%AE%B5%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%B0%E0%AF%8D

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1137387179724339&set=a.342665752529823.1073741872.100003592026417&type=3

posted a 5 part reply in coments section

Very good response, SKV. But is it worth your time to respond to these people ? Our society needs to understand, if everybody did their job/work properly even 80-90% we will be far far ahead of any other economies in the world. No need of any charity, social service etc. IR is a fine example ...he just did his job 100000000...%  well.

CK, I dont know how to describe myself even though I am much older than you :-) .. But to me on thing is clear - IR is withholding his ideas (and have withheld them for a long time). The Indian ear is not ready for all the contrapuntal music which he has learned from Bach. He is past tunes, he wants to do this harmony/contrapuntal thing. Yes NEPV was done with a vengeance. More such music is coming in installments now and then. I am pretty sure other MDs are playing that album back and forth and figuring out what is going on there. Already, auna nee vEna has inspired a track in Bahubali.
(I have a suspicion what you mean by filmism, but please elaborate. I have my own preferences in his music. The fact is , you need to know what his focus his and not worry too much. I dont worry if others gets awards and make more money etc. I just want people to enjoy/understand him (his music) better).

kiru wrote:CK, I dont know how to describe myself even though I am much older than you :-) .. But to me on thing is clear - IR is withholding his ideas (and have withheld them for a long time). The Indian ear is not ready for all the contrapuntal music which he has learned from Bach. He is past tunes, he wants to do this harmony/contrapuntal thing. Yes NEPV was done with a vengeance. More such music is coming in installments now and then. I am pretty sure other MDs are playing that album back and forth and figuring out what is going on there. Already, auna nee vEna has inspired a track in Bahubali.
(I have a suspicion what you mean by filmism, but please elaborate. I have my own preferences in his music. The fact is , you need to know what his focus his and not worry too much. I dont worry if others gets awards and make more money etc. I just want people to enjoy/understand him (his music) better).

I would disagree with 'vengeance' wording. The guy is beyond all that. GVM was the second writer-producer-director in thamizh who accepted the offer of using a full fledged symphonic orchestra (the first one was kamal hassan and in malayalam he has already used a full symphonic orchestra thrice). If anything he needs more freedom and a "thematic" soundtrack to work on (more swappnams please!!)

Anyone who tries to connect with folk got to love IR :
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-features/tp-metroplus/making-notes-with-the-poet/article18150947.ece

Apart from Kabir, they’re also constantly inspired by other musicians like Ilayaraja, Bulle Shah, Prahlad Tipanyi and even Bob Marley. Raman believes, “Bob Marley and Kabir were essentially the same people just at different places at different times because they represented the masses, preached the same messages and created movements that rose as a result of social angst.”

People who do "Kabir music" love IR and it is not surprising.

Nitin Mitta and rAgA-rang:
http://indianewengland.com/2017/04/raga-rang-musicians-ready-shower-melodic-delight-april-29-lexington/

Mitta has had association with film music early in his music career when he used to play tabla in the Telugu film industry.

“I am excited about performing at Rāga-Rang, because the best film songs are based on raga-s and designed bring joy in three minutes. For that the composer, lyricist, singer and the orchestra work extremely hard and cleverly; Ilayaraja and RD Burman are my favorite composers,” he said in the statement.

தபலா & ராஜா உடன்பிறப்புக்களாச்சே

Deepa Ganesh writes on "singer" Rajkumar and it's not unusual that IR shows up in such an article

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-features/tp-metroplus/the-authentic-kannada-voice/article18151043.ece

“I love you” refrain is full of Carnatic gamakas, and it can easily sound incongruent-- English words in Carnatic idiom. But what Ilaiyaraja and Rajkumar achieve is remarkable. It is as if they are saying: “This is how we say ‘I love you’ in my language!”

kiru wrote:CK, I dont know how to describe myself even though I am much older than you :-) .. But to me on thing is clear - IR is withholding his ideas (and have withheld them for a long time). The Indian ear is not ready for all the contrapuntal music which he has learned from Bach. He is past tunes, he wants to do this harmony/contrapuntal thing. Yes NEPV was done with a vengeance. More such music is coming in installments now and then. I am pretty sure other MDs are playing that album back and forth and figuring out what is going on there. Already, auna nee vEna has inspired a track in Bahubali.
(I have a suspicion what you mean by filmism, but please elaborate. I have my own preferences in his music. The fact is , you need to know what his focus his and not worry too much. I dont worry if others gets awards and make more money etc. I just want people to enjoy/understand him (his music) better).

I agree with that because he was always far ahead of his time.  At a certain point, he may have felt that what he wanted to do was too advanced or that he simply lacked the musicians here.  I don't think tracks like Sattru Munbu could have been executed here and if they had, the recording wouldn't have done them justice.  He has often ranted against the standard of musicianship (of Western instrument players) in India so I am thinking more of the latter.  NEPV gave him the perfect canvas to go all out. 

By filmi-ism, I mean that earlier his instrumentation derived from authentic genres.  As in, any guitar sections would evoke rock or jazz and any string sections would evoke WCM. I had mentioned once before that if you took only the interludes of Raasathi Unnai, esp 2nd interlude, you could substitute it in a Western composition and it wouldn't sound out of place.  He began to move away from that standard by the end of the decade.  I don't know what the reasons are but especially in the faster/dance songs the orchestration became noisier and the chorus portions also began to resemble Hindi music.  Kallathanamaga, Muthirai Eppodhu come to mind immediately but there are many other examples.  I remember once while channel surfing, Chinna Kannamma was playing on Podhigai and Kadhal Then Kodukka song was going on.  My father was like, "idhu Ilayaraja va??".  I can make out his signature in those songs but that's not quite enough.  I CAN be satisfied with that even but would such songs ever be in my top 50 or even 100 IR?  No chance. Much of his best work in the 90s was where he retained the earlier authentic sound - Dhalapathi, Marupadiyum (where Aasai Adhigam is the most dispensable track, at least for me), Kanmani Anbodu track from Guna.  Guna is a great album as such but I am just focusing on the more Western oriented songs from that period.   It's not that he can't work magic moving away from authentic aesthetics but THAT is his forte, where nobody can touch him.

Why celebrate IR next part #5 on patrikai.com

The writer gets emotional, rightly so (on a person whose journey started with his mother selling radio becoming the steering force in TN becoming a top market for stereo players).

I've mentioned this frequently in the forum. That one cannot even buy a simple cassette player (let alone stereo) by going to the market in TN in 70's or until mid 80's. All they could buy were Philips / Murphy radios and in some places the HMV "turn tables" (vinyl disk players). Though companies like Ahuja were making equipments that included compact cassette playing mechanisms, they were typically for public address systems (and costed a fortune, by economics of those time periods thus not easy to afford for households).

That way, any who wanted a cassette player had to go to "burma bazaar" (or the Ritchie street that is talked about in the article).  So, Panasonic players that got "smuggled" or brought-in by "gulf people" were the initial drivers for the cassette market.  This should explain "non-explosion" of the cassette market until mid or late 80's. Also as to why people in general had to depend on radio / PA systems / buses / teakkadais for IR music.

During later part of 80's, companies like Philips / BPL started manufacturing locally in big quantities such players. Thus personal (or household) players became more affordable and helped the cassette sales skyrocket.

A lot of this had to do with the central gov policies with respect to manufacturing licenses / import restrictions / electronics vision etc.

இது இன்னமும் நடக்கிறதா?

http://cinema.nakkheeran.in/Talkies.aspx?T=4017
(நகர்வலம் விமர்சனம்)

இளையராஜா ரசிகையாக கதாநாயகி இருப்பதும், இளையராஜா அவர்களுடைய பாடல்கள் பயன்படுத்தப்பட்ட விதமும் ரசனை

I thought they would've cut down after the crack-down on rights violations. Or, may be they took permission (like, by making payment) to use them?

app_engine wrote:Deepa Ganesh writes on "singer" Rajkumar and it's not unusual that IR shows up in such an article

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-features/tp-metroplus/the-authentic-kannada-voice/article18151043.ece

“I love you” refrain is full of Carnatic gamakas, and it can easily sound incongruent-- English words in Carnatic idiom. But what Ilaiyaraja and Rajkumar achieve is remarkable. It is as if they are saying: “This is how we say ‘I love you’ in my language!”

Have been a lurker for years in this forum before deciding to take the plunge   . Hope I can provide some positive contribution here!

On topic - I was pleasantly surprised at the singing prowess of the legend Dr. Rajkumar and this article articulates the way he pronounces "I Love you" in carnatic syle quite well. A well thought out idea by a genius and equally well executed by a legend. SJ amma too joins in the fun  but her talent is not a surprise, but Dr. RK's singing talent definitely is !

The audio version of the song could be found below (the video version can be avoided just like a lot of his murdered classics though it is not as bad some of the Tamil ones  )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fiHqHyva5Q

Also found a IR fan who runs a YT channel where you find a lot of remastered IR classics in 24 bit remastered format - totally non profit and for listening pleasure only. You can find a few ARR and MSV numbers but predominantly this is for fans like us.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZZlPNmaN447aNA4TwNM1rA.

I found personal favorites like 'Ninaivo oru paravai' and 'ilampani thuli vizhum neram' - songs that are not usually found in good quality remastered from LPs here...would encourage the folks to take a look and search for songs you might like.

Nice posts and RK-SJ link, nanjilan!

Welcome to the forum  Appreciate your participation!

CK, one of these days I will get the time to write to you, but not on BR's blog. Whatever be your intentions, the article was inflammatory at the very least and completely off-base in it's main point, at best. You did get the TRPs over there but I'm not going to contribute to it there. I will write more in detail when I muster up the enthu but I have only 2 points - One, musical transitions are nothing new, has been happening for ages. Secondly, IR has not changed his approach at all in all these years. You must know to peel the external layer and look into the core, nothing's changed. And certainly not because of anyone. Raja is and has always been his own man!

Shank wrote:CK, one of these days I will get the time to write to you, but not on BR's blog. Whatever be your intentions, the article was inflammatory at the very least and completely off-base in it's main point, at best. You did get the TRPs over there but I'm not going to contribute to it there. I will write more in detail when I muster up the enthu but I have only 2 points - One, musical transitions are nothing new, has been happening for ages. Secondly, IR has not changed his approach at all in all these years. You must know to peel the external layer and look into the core, nothing's changed. And certainly not because of anyone. Raja is and has always been his own man!

On point one:  Never claimed otherwise and I'd like you to point me to where I did. 

Re point two:  Do me a favour and just map the instances of baroque counterpoint in NEPV or Megha and compare them to say Chinna Thambi and get back to me.  Now that change is NOT because of Rahman (nor did I claim anywhere in the article that IR changed anything directly because of Rahman's music) but this is just to counter the claim that IR has not changed his approach at all.  If you think even absence or change in style of counterpoint (there is something like classical counterpoint which is a bit slower, to put it very crudely) is an 'externality', then that is more a reflection of the Indian tendency to ignore harmony and focus only on melody.  I regard IR's harmony, including the basslines, to be as fundamental to his compositions as melody.  And I think that is a more objective way of looking at it because he doesn't use crude one note harmonium harmony like earlier composers. It is why I hated the arrangement for Neele Neele Ambar Se.  Change the music but don't dump the chords, man; the chords are as much a part of the song as the melody.

crimson king wrote:


On point one:  Never claimed otherwise and I'd like you to point me to where I did. 

Re point two:  Do me a favour and just map the instances of baroque counterpoint in NEPV or Megha and compare them to say Chinna Thambi and get back to me.  Now that change is NOT because of Rahman (nor did I claim anywhere in the article that IR changed anything directly because of Rahman's music) but this is just to counter the claim that IR has not changed his approach at all.  If you think even absence or change in style of counterpoint (there is something like classical counterpoint which is a bit slower, to put it very crudely) is an 'externality', then that is more a reflection of the Indian tendency to ignore harmony and focus only on melody.  I regard IR's harmony, including the basslines, to be as fundamental to his compositions as melody.  And I think that is a more objective way of looking at it because he doesn't use crude one note harmonium harmony like earlier composers. It is why I hated the arrangement for Neele Neele Ambar Se.  Change the music but don't dump the chords, man; the chords are as much a part of the song as the melody.

CK, first of all I woudn't call NEPV and Megha as distinctly baroque style. They are much more Romantic if one wants to pin down a style from that era. If you want baroque from IR, look at the early 80s because after that, it's been mighty difficult to pinpoint that style in his music because it's so well integrated. I still stand by my fundamental assertion that, at the core, IR has not changed at all. You can assume and attribute various things to me such as the Indian tendency to focus on melody and such, but what I see is just a "surface" observation by you, lacking any bit of musical depth. I'm sorry to say this, but that's how I feel. And folks who really know me here, will acknowledge that I know my music and am a music lover first.

^^ I asked about baroque counterpoint, not baroque itself. Strictly speaking, IR is not classical music anyway. Fair enough then, I invite you to prove your assertion that the core of IR's music has not changed. I am eager to read your definition of IR's core, the core that ostensibly unites Machana paartheengala and Kalvane. I am happy to be proven wrong but prove it if you are making an assertion.

crimson king wrote:


I agree with that because he was always far ahead of his time.  At a certain point, he may have felt that what he wanted to do was too advanced or that he simply lacked the musicians here.  I don't think tracks like Sattru Munbu could have been executed here and if they had, the recording wouldn't have done them justice.  He has often ranted against the standard of musicianship (of Western instrument players) in India so I am thinking more of the latter.  NEPV gave him the perfect canvas to go all out. 

CK, it is purely not logistic issue. The audience is/was not ready for the kind of music IR wants/likes to do. We are all very indian in our ears and very monophonic in nature. This is the main reason the audience can lap up any decent tune from any MD. There is no "tie-in"/"barrier to exit" from IR's music for this audience. Once you get clued in to the harmonic/contrapuntal nature of IR's music you will find the music from other MDs is not the same and will be "interpreted" as "simpler". In my mind, if sangathis are variations in linear time, the harmony/counterpoint is variations in concurrent time. In my personal opinion, variations in concurrent time requires much more skill/brain power. You can say there is not much harmony/counterpoint in ALL of IR's music, fair enough, but that is the "interest/focus" of the composer. I would say in almost 70-80% of IR's music he leaves a counterpoint somewhere or other, even for a few seconds, which I usually use as a "watermark" to identify him. 
Re: this "feedback" thingy - it is very silly. May be he knows he has competition, but he just goes to his "ragam and WCM grammar" all the time. He does this because of his belief in these systems as a method to "create new music". The idea is to go to the fundamentals - none of this kid stuff about new genre, new sound, clips, loops etc. He has been there and done that. Let people make money or get awards. He is just making new music.
(BTW, I dont mean to disrespect Rahman, Yuvan or Imman or who ever.. I respect any body who can sing or play, if you can improvize you are a mini composer, if you can create a tune you are a composer.. I respect all, but if I have to put somebody on a pedestal .. I have my pick)

kiru wrote:

crimson king wrote:


I agree with that because he was always far ahead of his time.  At a certain point, he may have felt that what he wanted to do was too advanced or that he simply lacked the musicians here.  I don't think tracks like Sattru Munbu could have been executed here and if they had, the recording wouldn't have done them justice.  He has often ranted against the standard of musicianship (of Western instrument players) in India so I am thinking more of the latter.  NEPV gave him the perfect canvas to go all out. 

CK, it is purely not logistic issue. The audience is/was not ready for the kind of music IR wants/likes to do. We are all very indian in our ears and very monophonic in nature. This is the main reason the audience can lap up any decent tune from any MD. There is no "tie-in"/"barrier to exit" from IR's music for this audience. Once you get clued in to the harmonic/contrapuntal nature of IR's music you will find the music from other MDs is not the same and will be "interpreted" as "simpler". In my mind, if sangathis are variations in linear time, the harmony/counterpoint is variations in concurrent time. In my personal opinion, variations in concurrent time requires much more skill/brain power. You can say there is not much harmony/counterpoint in ALL of IR's music, fair enough, but that is the "interest/focus" of the composer. I would say in almost 70-80% of IR's music he leaves a counterpoint somewhere or other, even for a few seconds, which I usually use as a "watermark" to identify him. 
Re: this "feedback" thingy - it is very silly. May be he knows he has competition, but he just goes to his "ragam and WCM grammar" all the time. He does this because of his belief in these systems as a method to "create new music". The idea is to go to the fundamentals - none of this kid stuff about new genre, new sound, clips, loops etc. He has been there and done that. Let people make money or get awards. He is just making new music.
(BTW, I dont mean to disrespect Rahman, Yuvan or Imman or who ever.. I respect any body who can sing or play, if you can improvize you are a mini composer, if you can create a tune you are a composer.. I respect all, but if I have to put somebody on a pedestal .. I have my pick)

Using point by point because I don't know how to break up the quote. Sorry
1.  Re the logistic issue, what I meant was even if he felt the audience would accept it, the musicians to perform it weren't there in India.  Even for Malayalam Guru, he used the BSO musicians.  In the 80s, this would have been very difficult if not outright impossible.  There was an interview with composer Bhaskar Chandravarkar where I think IR mentioned even importing instruments was very difficult. 
2.Yeah, I wouldn't put a number on it - 70-80% - because it is hard to keep track all of his couple of thousand songs but it's fair to say counterpoint is a very pervasive part of his music.  I am not sure how this relates to our discussion, though.  If you mean that the songs in the 90s were still complex, yes, by and large they were.  But it's not only about the complexity.  The problem is IR pampers us with so much genius that we get used to his patterns.  So if I take a song like Ivaloru Ilankuruvi, I don't find the patterns that interesting and when that sax in the 2nd interlude comes on, I find it annoying.  Again, it has that artificial Hindi filmi music sound in place of the rich tones he used in the 80s. So I do like the song but it doesn't come up for repeating in my playlist very often at all.  Also, SJ esp got old and to a lesser extent SPB and KJY.  What was youthful and energetic in the 80s sounds laboured in the 90s. 
3. My point is actually the opposite.  That the emergence of competition liberated him from the burden of no.1 and the need to make mokkai songs just to satisfy directors.  The need continued to some extent with beauties like O Baby Baby or Rukku Rukku Roop Kya.  But with fewer potboilers coming his way, he could work on films which gave him more width to experiment.  It is my opinion that the changes from the 90s through to the present day are more dramatic vis-a-vis from 76 to early 90s.  Not all the changes have been satisfying but the fact that change has become a constant itself is exciting.  That is why I said in the article that ARR liberated him to pursue new ideas.  Not that he wouldn't have done it otherwise but there was much less commercial pressure on him now and good riddance to the wannabe Michael Jackson songs most of which I disliked/dislike.