Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

With this, I stopped believing (even in real life) the sugar-coat fellows. So many real nuances hidden by those sugar coat talks and speeches.

BTW, that "35% only mine" - i understood "only as the % credit for a playback singer AWARD".

Not as the "35% contribution for every song in total".

If SPB meant it that way, then that would be funny At the minimum, DEFINITELY NOT in IR songs! (No need to repeat that singers for IR songs were only slightly bigger contributors than tablA player / violinist / flautist etc.)

With machines doing more job nowadays, in the ARR / post-ARR era, the "contribution" by singer is further dwindling. I mean simply as a singer. (Not as "co-composers" as in the case of some MD's - who ask for "some carnatic stuff you learnt, please sing, I will do some cut and paste" business )

அதாவது, உலகத்திலேயே மிகவும் புகழ்பெற்ற தமிழ்ப்பாடலைப் பாடியவர் தனுஷ் என்கிற அளவில் தான் இன்றைய பின்னணிப்பாடகரின் நிலைமை.

இதுல என்னத்த %  கணக்கு  எல்லாம் சொல்லிக்கிட்டு?

app sir, SPB does sound genuine in this recording. Even in Super Singer he always mentions IR. I do not blame him.. ithellAm kaalaththin sOthanai .. SPB is not my favorite singer .. but he is really a legend. Once he referred to IR as an "entity" or "thing" (as in super iq extra-terrestrial being). This sort of a comment does not come from any body. It shows years of observation/understanding of the master. This one comment alone has really endeared me to him. We fight with people in our own family .. no big deal if there is some misunderstanding between people who worked together .. however long their friendship be. I hope this will blow over soon.

chinna chinna mana varuthangal.. sariyavadharku vazhi irukiradhu......

periya virisal......  udanidha kannadi....... Rajavin manasu namaku theriyum.... vittu ponal ponadhu dhan.........

Vaarthaiyal rajavai kayam seidharvargal..... sandhegam dhan....

sandai pottavargal dhan rajavai thedi varanam.. adhai than ipo SPB start seidhu irukirar.

Unmaiyana friendship endral.. vaarthaiyai vida kudadhu.......  IRai pola.

IR yaraiyum kutram sonnadhu iilai.  odhungi sendru vidugirar...... idhu dhan Raja...........

Thooral ninnu pochu bgm from Violin vicky.........

Ilaiyaraaja in Kazoo - Thooral Ninnu Pochu - BGM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QxbrqlU_MA



as usual. bhavam is so nice........  instruments.. ivar vasam.........


lovely melody....... Beautiful one.....

nee pathi naan pathi kanna

indha paatu.. epodhu kaetalum.. Heaven la irundhu kaekara madhirii oru feelings.  mel ulagathil........ katru pola ,

ganam illadha oru paatu idhu.....

indha  feelings... indha bhavam.......... idhai romba azhaga vasithu irukum VV............. amazing...........

Density of the sound.. Violin vicky's Special...... (adhu dhan Rajavin Special)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBb6CQqQFuo

தவறான தகவலை எழுதியுள்ள தினமணி

இதுவரை இளையராஜா இசையமைப்பில் ஆண்பாடகர் தேசிய விருது பெற்றதில்லை

SPB got for both sAgarasangamam & rudhraveeNA, as per internet sources...

Current NA winning male playback singer - as expected, wants to sing for IR

Though NA is not anything for IR / IRFs, it's obviously something for people like this man!

என்னோட குரலும் படத்துல வரப்போதுன்னு துள்ளி குதிச்சேன். பாடும் போது எப்படி சந்தோசப்பட்டேனோ அதே மாதிரி அந்த பாட்டு ரிலீஸ் ஆனதுக்கு அப்பறம் பெரிய ஆள் ஆகிடுவோம்னு நினைச்சுட்டு இருந்தேன். ஆனா, அந்த பாட்டு பாடினதுக்கு பிறகு எந்த வாய்ப்பும் வரலைன்னு நினைக்கும் போது வருத்தமா இருக்கு. அடுத்த வாய்ப்பு கிடைகிறதுக்குள்ள தேசிய விருதே கிடைச்சுருச்சு. இதுக்கு அப்பறம் நிறைய வாய்ப்பு வரும்னு எதிர்பார்க்குறேன். எனக்கு பேசும் போது கொஞ்சம் திக்கும், ஆனா பாடும்’ போது அந்த குறை தெரியாம பாடிருவேன். அது தான் என்னோட ப்ளஸ்.
...
...
உங்களுக்கு பிடிச்ச சினிமா பாட்டு மற்றும் சினிமா அல்லாத பாடல்கள் எது..?

சினிமா பாடல்கள்னா இளையராஜா பாடல்கள் தான். சமீபத்துல பவர் பாண்டி பாடல்கள் எல்லாமே பிடிச்சிருந்தது. சினிமா அல்லாத பாட்டுன்னா, நாட்டுப்புற பாடல்களில் அம்மா பாடல்கள் அதிகமா இருக்கு. அந்த பாடல்கள் எல்லாம் ரொம்ப பிடிக்கும். நானும் நிறைய மேடைகளில் அந்த பாடல்களைப் பாடியிருக்கேன். பகுத்தறிவு பாடல்கள், தத்துவ பாடல்களும் பிடிக்கும்.

யாரோட இசையில பாடணும்னு ஆசை..?

இந்தியாவுல இருக்குற எல்லா இசையமைப்பாளர் இசையிலையும் பாட்டு பாடணும்னு ஆசை. தமிழ்நாட்டுல இளையராஜா, ஏ.ஆர்.ரஹ்மான் இசையில கண்டிப்பா பாடணும்னு ஆசை இருக்கு.

One HCIRF running a series in "patrikai.com" (again).

This one is titled " ஏன் கொண்டாட வேண்டும் இளையராஜாவை!?: ஒரு புதிய கோணம்"

Here is the part 1:
https://www.patrikai.com/why-we-celebrate-ilayaraja/

இளையராஜா நட்டப்பட்டதுண்டு! காபிரைட் விஷயத்தில் இன்னமும் நட்டப்பட்டுக்கொண்டு தான் இருக்கிறார். ஆனால், இளையராஜாவால் நட்டப்பட்டவர் என்று எவரும் இல்லை!

இதைவிட ஒரு மனிதனின் கலைவாழ்வுக்கு வேறென்ன பெருமை வேண்டும்?

Part 2 from that patrikai.com series:
https://www.patrikai.com/en-kondada-vendum-ilayaraja-series-2-ilayarajavum-2500-manithuligalum-niyohi/

இப்போது போல எப்போது வருமோ எப்படி வருமோ என்று மாதக்கணக்கில் தயாரிப்பாளர்களை நோகடித்தவரில்லை! தன்னை நம்பி வரும் தயாரிப்பாளர்களுக்கு அவ்வளவு நம்பிக்கையை தந்தவர் இளையராஜா!

Kiru and App - You still have a soft corner for SPB. I lost that completely after the recent copyright episode. For me, the distrust started with SPB's speech in the KBhagyaraj's felicitation. Even in this recent interview, I'm not at all convinced about his stand of not knowing anything about the copyright laws. That's definitely not genuine.

Anyway, I think our man is more stronger mentally and emotionally to let this affect him or his musical output. Usha was spot on, I doubt if this new divide can be bridged.

Latest buddy of Dhanush seems to be getting some attention at this time

While he grew up listening to the songs of A R Rahman, Roldan became a huge fan of Ilaiyaraja later when he watched his movies on television.

"In Kadhal Rojave track (from Roja), the opening humming will have a long reverb tail. Rahman was one of the first composers to use reverb as a musical. I would call him a sound poet. His music had a huge influence on me.

"When it comes to arrangement, I love Ilaiyaraja sirs music. His work created an impact on me when I watched his movies on television. As I grew up, I learned how in-depth Raja sirs music was. His extensive repertoire is something no one can touch today."

While he is correct on his last sentence about IR & today, I have a question - was there anyone ever in history who can touch IR's extensive repertoire?

MD Baradwaj dropping pearls

இளையராஜாவின் காப்பிரைட் விவகாரம் குறித்து அவரிடம் கேட்டதற்கு, ”காப்பிரைட் என்பது ரொம்ப சாதாரணம விஷயம்.

ஆனால், இளையராஜா – எஸ்.பி.பாலசுப்பிரமணியம் விஷயத்தில் அது பெரிய பிரச்சினையானது எப்படி என்பதுதான் புரியவில்லை.
காரணம், இசை நிகழ்ச்சியின் ஏற்பாட்டாளர்கள் தான் அந்த பாடலின் உரிமம் வைத்திருப்பவர்களிடம் உரிமம் பெறுவதற்கான தொகையை கொடுக்க வேண்டும்.
இசை நிகழ்ச்சியில் பாடுபவர்களுக்கு எந்தவித சம்மந்தமும் இல்லை. இது அனைவருக்கும் தெரிந்த ஒன்றுதான்.
இந்த காப்பிரைட் விவகாரம் பல ஆண்டுகளாக எந்த பிரச்சினையும் இன்றி சுமூகமாக நடைமுறையில்தான் இருக்கிறது” என்கிறார்.

crimson king's post on BRangan's blog has managed to draw out....none other than P_R (@dagalti) to come to public space and comment

https://baradwajrangan.wordpress.com/2017/04/08/readers-write-in-13-adho-megha-oorvalam-and-how-rahman-gave-ilayaraja-feedback/

P_R wrote:
@rothrocks
//I am the author of this piece//
Ah.. அதானே பார்த்தேன்.

//opinions masquerading as assertions//
ஏதோ ஏழைக்கேத்த எள்ளுருண்டை. Blogpost தேத்தும் அளவு பத்தாது தான்.

//I am sorry about that//
அட என்னங்க இதுக்கெல்லாம் வருத்தப்பட்டுக்கிட்டு. பரவாயில்லை, விடுங்க.

அதாவது, Anyone who does not relate to this piece is someone for whom this piece is not intended in this first place.
ஷோக்கா சொன்னயா, தூள்யா. ஞாபகம் வச்சுகுறேன், நானும் எங்கனா அட்ச்சு உட்றேன்.

Apologies to BR!

ஒரு song dedicate பண்ணிடுப் போயிடறேன்:
அவதாரம்
அரிதாரத்தைப் பூசிக்கொள்ள ஆசை
SJ: பாட்டுன்னு நினைப்பதெல்லாம், இங்கு பாட்டாக இருப்பதில்ல
IR (indignant ‘assertion’): அது என் பாட்டு இல்லை!

I take it then that you approve of people indulging in insults because they don't like somebody's opinion (not that I am surprised).

CK I read the post in rangan blog..was it really you buddy?
I didn't want to post there,but there are quite a few things
wrong in your post.
Even as an essay or opinion piece, it could have been
expressed with lot more clarity.
I still didn't get the central piece of your post.
I know you have a fair bit of understanding of Indian film music
However the post on the blog did not reflect any of your knowledge.
It could very well have been written by a (Rah)maniac.
All it managed to convey was Raaja had lost his mojo.
I am pretty sure you didn't mean that or did you?
Why don't you do a once over and post it again here.Let us piece through its conceits and arguments in an organized fashion.That is if you have not labeled everyone here as incapable of discussion.rangan has an agenda and his comments space is hardly a place worthy of analyzing raaja and his creations.

Regard Spb' recent intreeu,he has to come back to raaja to
continue making money.vera vazhi illai. So he will speak like that(reconciliation).

jaiganesh wrote:CK I read the post in rangan blog..was it really you buddy?
I didn't want to post there,but there are quite a few things
wrong in your post.
Even as an essay or opinion piece, it could have been
expressed with lot more clarity.
I still didn't get the central piece of your post.
I know you have a fair bit of understanding of Indian film music
However the post on the blog did not reflect any of your knowledge.
It could very well have been written by a (Rah)maniac.
All it managed to convey was Raaja had lost his mojo.
I am pretty sure you didn't mean that or did you?
Why don't you do a once over and post it again here.Let us piece through its conceits and arguments in an organized fashion.That is if you have not labeled everyone here as incapable of discussion.rangan has an agenda and his comments space is hardly a place worthy of analyzing raaja and his creations.

What I meant I have clarified several times in the thread there.  I have no interest in repeating myself at this point.  As for discussion, it has to start from the point that there is some merit in what I am saying, not "we know what is right and if only you listened to supercalafragilistic list of albums, you'd see the light too instead of insulting IR".  When the starting point itself is unnecessarily combative (not to mention terribly presumptuous in the case of some posts), then I have no interest in engaging further.  I can and will endeavour to do a better job of communicating what I meant.  But pl note that there are others who got exactly what I meant without my having to clarify a single thing so the fact that you think "All it managed to convey was Raja had lost his mojo" may also be a reflection of the echo chamber that you have chosen to be a part of.  I have only this to add and this goes for all members of this forum:  what sort of Rahmaniac starts a post by saying he listens to old IR songs programmes on Jaya Max?  Neither the program selection nor the channel is hip in the slightest circa 2017. And yet, I am apparently just a neetral, is it not? So please consider that before YOU label people because once you have done so, you cannot blame me for believing I am right to do likewise unto you.

Hmm.. 
In this territory there is no place for neutrals. At best there can be people "undecided or uninformed". :-)
I have stopped visiting Baradwaj Rangan beasant nagar blog for consuming interesting discussions.
Anyways, I felt that content aside, the post itself was not lucid, it labored around and around and the big 'revelation'
 or 'center piece' of the article was rather flat barren of insight. This was strange because I have read your long well researched 
 pieces on Rock and other forms.. Anyways.. you seem to be hurt .. It happens.

jaiganesh wrote:Hmm.. 
In this territory there is no place for neutrals. At best there can be people "undecided or uninformed". :-)
I have stopped visiting Baradwaj Rangan beasant nagar blog for consuming interesting discussions.
Anyways, I felt that content aside, the post itself was not lucid, it labored around and around and the big 'revelation'
 or 'center piece' of the article was rather flat barren of insight. This was strange because I have read your long well researched 
 pieces on Rock and other forms.. Anyways.. you seem to be hurt .. It happens.

See, I think this is just a mismatch of expectations.  It was more of a muso-cultural piece rather than a cold logical analysis and I think that is the problem most of the hardcore IR fans are having.  I understand that very well, but damn, if you don't give me a chance to explain that this is the case and just write off the article, why should I be patient either?   I am not hurt in the least; I was referring to what you said above that a Rahmaniac might have written this piece.  So I am just saying if you start the labelling business, I will get on board too.  I don't turn the other cheek and derive pleasure in giving back as good as I get.  And if people don't like that, I really couldn't care less.

But I digress; the idea was to make ample social references to paint a picture of a longtime fan finding his mind going on a walkabout as the song is playing and casting his mind back to 1991-92.  The big reveal was itself a comical device (which is why I made the joke about Archimedes in paranthesis).    In reality, it is more or less what I have believed and have said before in this space in different words:  people can get tired of listening to the same composer's works over and over and I do believe that is what happened at that time.  To make another comparison, IR was like the hot young intern in the early 80s  who had grown up into a dignified middle management executive by 90s.  Reliable but no longer exciting.  It is not his fault, necessarily; the audience gets used to it (which is why my repeated use of the line 'familiarity breeds contempt').   The only substantive point I am making there is for IR to step out of his vintage mould,  somebody had to make the audience reject it in the first place.  And that is the role that ARR performed.  If there had been no ARR, there would be no incentive for IR to move away from his vintage mould and all experiments would be within the boundaries of his vintage mould.  Now if the point is that even Sayndhu Sayndhu is only vintage IR and 'nothing new' then we agree to disagree.

CK - regarding familiarity breeds contempt angle and how Raaja went from hot intern to boring professor et al..
Since I have lived through the mid 80s to the 90s to till date, I have an understanding of how Raaja's music was consumed and received and 
where Rahman's entry differed.
Raaja has been following international music trends from an aesthetic stand point right from his early days in chennai when he was assisting other MDs.
Where ARR differed was that he also followed the business model, the supporting and branding aspect of a musician and was savvy enough to 
 employ that understanding combined with the personal experience of having seen his dad getting cheated by all the producers and collaborators in the 
cine industry. So just before ARR emerged into the scene, there was opening of the air waves for western pop music during regular prime time programming in 
DD metro. This was revolutionary because all along we got to know of the latest Michael Jackson music or Pink Floyd only through relatives visiting 
 India from abroad or through the 30 minute late night segment in DD national courtesy prannoy roy. When this flood gate opened, it literally 
exposed the youngsters who were literally under the shackles of their dads and moms to this brave new programming that resonated with them personally.
 This phenomenon has been the undercurrent that paved the way for experimentation in music - not at a musical level, but at a sound scape level.
Just before Roja, there was this guy Lekha Rathna kumar who had setup this 'sound bank' in hopes of music directors buying 'sounds' from him. This was not going well because the trend was to create instrumental music every bit by bit through 'live' instruments. Once the DD metro channel was launched and MTV found a permanent slot in the evening time when kids came back from college and school, all it required was the music director bold enough to use 'sound bank' inter spliced with real instruments. That is what happened. Music wise Loy mendosa and Ehsaan of the (SEL) along with Vanraj Bhatia had been trying some interesting collaboration with Remo for the "art film" stream, but what Rahman did was mainstreaming this approach without inhibition. Raaja years before all this had broken into a different plane with his music. He was in musical stratosphere so to speak and this lower atmospheric turbulence was neither a threat to him, nor a "musical challenge" to him by a worthy challenger. It was as he himself would speak of his own ascendance, a phenomenon which tuned the people of country to a different 'frequency' than the usual. There is no merit or demerit - a mere tuning of audience as achieved by liberalization of economy and the airwaves. 25 years of ARR, there has not been a single question of 'musical worth' asked by Rahman and the side varieties of sound bank customers to Raaja. As regards to NEPV and saaindhu saaindhu, it reflects the 'sensibility' of GVM than what Raaja would have preferred to do. Kindly revisit the interviews which are so popular and widely available on the youtube. Clearly, GVM thought he restricted Raaja to certain musical instruments and specific sound requirements. Raaja being a true and honest artist he is, breaks free squeezing through the rules of GVM as visible in the album.

I actually agree with most of what you say there. It's indeed not about merit or demerit but audience fatigue. I wouldn't say IR was completely immune to the developments of the early 90s and he tried to include MJ style beats in his music. He probably had no choice but this only diluted the flavour of his music because these intrusive dance beats leave no room for complex harmonic exploration. If you compare aatama with ponmeni, the former was more within the grasp of imitators like Deva whereas the latter required brilliance of a kind they - nor even the yesteryear masters - never possessed. Further, as a youngster playing in rock bands, Rahman understood the vocabulary of this new MJ type music and was able to emulate it much more convincingly. I agree that Sayndhu only happened at gvm's request but that is kind of my point. Nobody would have asked him to attempt that in his heyday because the vintage IR sound was also the in thing in a pop culture sense (which it ceased to be with Rahman's ascent). I don't think gvm was trying to curb him. Rather, he was trying to do what in jazz is called innovating around constraints, pushing IR to set up songs in a different way from his vintage style and still put his distinct stamp on it. I am familiar with your views on GVM but I think he is quite perceptive about music unlike many of our filmmakers and handled NEPV like a music producer.

crimson king wrote:I take it then that you approve of people indulging in insults because they don't like somebody's opinion (not that I am surprised).

Nothing like that.

I just got excited that this specific individual is batting for IR

Prabhu Ram / P_R / @dagalti is NOT known to be this much pro-IR in his innings at tfmpage / hub, though he is very much respected by me (and other IRFs) for his insight / eloquence / wit on various issues.

It's pretty much the same during his active period in twitter - for e.g. he is not much fond of us highlighting BGM as a prominent aspect for movies. While he has some bias for IR, especially for NEPV, he is not a "mafia" in that sense. In my earlier analysis on how people approach IR's music (on one of the threads here), I've categorized him as a "puccA neutral"

BTW, he is not active in twitter or anywhere at present.  Thus, him all of a sudden coming up alive on web, that too defending IR, got me excited!  (It's quite interesting that it's a place where a typical IRF is not much interested ...Brangan is too much "pro-MR+ARR-combo" that irritates most IRFs  Also, his blog is known to be the current haven for IR-naysayers).

app_engine wrote:

crimson king wrote:I take it then that you approve of people indulging in insults because they don't like somebody's opinion (not that I am surprised).

Nothing like that.

I just got excited that this specific individual is batting for IR

Prabhu Ram / P_R / @dagalti is NOT known to be this much pro-IR in his innings at tfmpage / hub, though he is very much respected by me (and other IRFs) for his insight / eloquence / wit on various issues.

It's pretty much the same during his active period in twitter - for e.g. he is not much fond of us highlighting BGM as a prominent aspect for movies. While he has some bias for IR, especially for NEPV, he is not a "mafia" in that sense. In my earlier analysis on how people approach IR's music (on one of the threads here), I've categorized him as a "puccA neutral"

BTW, he is not active in twitter or anywhere at present.  Thus, him all of a sudden coming up alive on web, that too defending IR, got me excited!  (It's quite interesting that it's a place where a typical IRF is not much interested ...Brangan is too much "pro-MR+ARR-combo" that irritates most IRFs  Also, his blog is known to be the current haven for IR-naysayers).

You'll find that that really isn't the case anymore, because most of them are gone except vijay.  Then again, I wouldn't call somebody like Tambi Dude an IR naysayer so it depends what each one's perception is.  But I find the blog's demographic has kind of aged and the people left are mostly old enough to be IR fans.  Yes, it's true, with twenty somethings, you may find an Arjun here and there but you are very likely to land a Kadakumar, sadly.

On your blog post, let me think aloud...

1. Of late, I'm becoming more of an IR-data-analyst   Slowly moving away from opinion-related-discussions. 

2. In any case, being away from TN during 90's and later, I can't comment on "popular opinion of the whole TN" after 1986. That way, how people felt about IR's music during early 90's cannot be properly estimated by me. That is, for the whole TN and not just Chennai - which alone typically gets highlighted in kumudam / vikatan / TV and other media that reaches outside of TN (i.e. KL where I lived in that time period and elsewhere too - whether it is MH / USA etc). Which is why I take into account opinions of "true neutrals from TN who had the pulse of places other than Chennal" and P_R is quite a key force in that territory. One may get offended by his "goundamani-like" language (that comedian being his idol) but cannot discard his "non-anecdotal-but-strong-data-based" insight

3. I've been watching (and at times participating) in such discussions for 2 decades  as to "how the arrival of ARR / Deva and others impacted IR commercially / musically" etc. right from early tfmpage times in late 90's. I feel there's nothing novel in this opinion of "IR-got-motivated-to-change". Actually, as early as 1997, when kAdhalukku mariyAdhai became a huge hit, there had been articles in mainstream magazines (not just tfmpage) that IR had been "reacting" to ARR and changing his style etc. I strongly disagreed

4. IMHO, IR quickly gets bored (in one style / set of toys etc) and keeps changing right from day 1.

i.e. This had been true right from 1976 and I believe it is internal (self-motivated / challenging himself) and may be occasionally influenced by peers / competition in a limited way but not as a major stimulant. 

If anything, only financials (and license raj) limited him from fresh avenues in 80's. Unfortunately for him, Rao-Singham-liberalisation period came a little late .  By then, "industry conspiracy" denied him funds and severely restricted him in the new "open-era". Despite that, one has to remember that even with limited financials (i.e. mostly MFM) he started his association with BSO during kAlApAni / guru time period in mid 90-s. That was almost 15 years before NEPV. However, to attribute IR's indulgence with foreign musicians as a "reaction to ARR" won't be correct as IR had been doing that right from his early days. (There had been a French lady who had been playing years before; also recall his meeting with Paul Mauriat in early 80's. Plus I remember reading about his interest in working with western orchestra right during the HTNI / NBW time period. IR was complaining of quality issues with instrument players / musicians unable to perform his experimental stuff etc. Though unreleased, there is no question about IR's RPO "symphony" which gives a pointer to that direction - and it was early 90's as well).

5. If one traces his musical "steps" from annakkiLi to priyA to ullAsappaRavaigaL to kOzhi koovudhu to sAgarasangamam / sindhu bhairavi to agni natchaththiram / Anjali / HTNI, all of which happened without any worthy competition anywhere at sight, my statement about "self-motivation" on indulging in new forms / toys etc. can be easily understood. It was continuous IMHO in 90's too and even in new millennium - i.e. even during time periods of struggle to get top bucks. 

6. To equate such true musical hunger-thirst-quest to something ordinary, i.e. "reaction to industry competition" thingy (that too musically unworthy competition) is "BRangan-level" IMHO   . No wonder that fellow jumped to highlight it in his blog

Note : I'm not a fan of "adhO mEgha oorvalam" either