Concerts of Raaja

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Post  fring151 on Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:46 pm

Thanks Nerdji.  cheers 

nerd wrote:One thing that I personally did not like w.r.to the anecdotes.

1. There was only one occasion in which SPB sang with 100% precision.
2. SJ needs to be spoonfed. And she will give about 90%
3. Malaysia is a SPB-replacement.

Now, I don't have any problems with the above statements because the person saying them is Raaja, of course.

But this one, "If Aaasaaji does not like the structure of my composition, I will change it". I mean WTF! அவிங்க என்ன அவ்ளோ பெரிய்ய ஆளா? With my very limited knowledge on her songs, I don't find her better than a SJ.

Agree with all of this.

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Post  Drunkenmunk on Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:48 pm

Maybe Asaa ji refusing to sing it could have brought a better tune and only Raaja is the right judge there. enakku solla onyum illa. But S Janaki'ya spoonfeed seyyara edathula Asaa ji aala onyum kizhuchuda midiyAdhu. I totally agree with Nerd ji and Fring there. But is it likely that Raaja said those comments due to the respect he has for Asha ji and the other comment to underline his virtuosity (SJ'ke spoonfeed dhAnAm)? The question to ask him here next is, has he/will he changed/change his tune if an SJ asks? And how much of spoonfeeding has to be done to Asaa mEdau to get 90+% compared to Janaki according to him? That will tell me where he keeps SJ and Asha. As I see it, Raaja has highest regards for SJ. He in fact said "sollittu pOtamE" on SJ taking offence to her sumAr voice comment from IR. "yAr yArO ennanamO solrAnga, avanga sonnA enna?" And this when media thirichu vuttufied his comment when he said her voice is sumAr but that has no bearing on how great a singer she is.
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Post  fring151 on Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:47 am

Marksheet for the few songs I caught so far:

Janani janani, Amma - Fail
Enna satham - Fail
VAn pOle - Fail
En kanmani - Fail
Thendral vandhu theendum - Fail with TC certificate
Vaa vaa pakkam vaa - Just pass
Netru indha neram - Pass
Poove iLaya poove - Pass
NilA kAyudhu - Pass
Metti oli kAttRodu - Pass
Anandha rAgam - Pass with distinction

SPB is a pale shadow of his former self. I have been to Lakshman Sruthi concerts of his in Chennai where he has sung better. Age has caught up. Chitra too. Uma ramanan also looks so much older than in the 2011 concert, but the beautiful voice is more or less intact. Napolean is THE man. What a brilliant and versatile flautist!

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Post  crimson king on Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:03 am

One thing IR did not say is if he had tried to insist to Asha that this is his composition and she is not allowed to change it, she would have simply walked away.  And that is the clout the Mangeshkar sisters command(ed) over the industry, why else does practically everybody fawn over them, even pulling down Rafi-saab just to make them happy.  SPB or SJ could not have done that in the 80s because it was IR who had that kind of clout at that time.  That is why I always feel confused whether I should admire the Mangeshkar sisters for their brilliance and their single minded determination in making it in Bollywood of their own or hate them for being egoistic, manipulative drama queens.

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Post  mayilSK on Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:39 am

Spliced the portions where Raja talk/sing.  Wink 

Raja talks about Janani, SPB, Amma Endrazhaikkadha, Malaysia, Anandha Raagam, Asha, Latha, Janaki, Poove and the way a song 'just lands on his lap' - in that order.

https://vimeo.com/84643935
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Post  app_engine on Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:58 am

mayilSK wrote:Spliced the portions where Raja talk/sing.  Wink 

Raja talks about Janani, SPB, Amma Endrazhaikkadha, Malaysia, Anandha Raagam, Asha, Latha, Janaki, Poove and the way a song 'just lands on his lap' - in that order.

https://vimeo.com/84643935

mikka nanRi sir!

 the clap

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Post  fring151 on Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:20 am

mayilSK wrote:Spliced the portions where Raja talk/sing.  Wink 

Raja talks about Janani, SPB, Amma Endrazhaikkadha, Malaysia, Anandha Raagam, Asha, Latha, Janaki, Poove and the way a song 'just lands on his lap' - in that order.

https://vimeo.com/84643935

Thanks mayilsk!

Saw that last bit with Napolean and Sada. Napolean says he and several musician facebook friends are continuously analyzing various aspects of Raja's compositions, chord progressions and instrumentation (currently Tabla) on facebook. YAr ivangaLAm? Any possibility of inviting them here?!

The demonstration of Anandha rAgam was just brilliant. Rarely seen a musician talk about the creation process in such a precise and erudite (well, as precise and erudite as possible for a mass TN TV audience) manner.

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Post  Wizzy on Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:22 am

@mayilSK, neat job, was wanting to do something like this but gave up after 10 min  Smile 

does anyone remember the orchestra playing 'Azhagu Malar ada'?,just the ludes,
which concert was it?
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Post  rajkumarc on Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:24 am

Thanks Nerd for sharing the concert videos. Watched only part1 so far and liked Netru Indha Neram, Metti Oli Kaatrodu, Vaa Vaa Pakkam Vaa, Vetti Veru Vaasam. 

Loved watching IR's anecdotes - favorite being the Aananda Raagam deconstruction, mindblowing to say the least. Loved Napoleon and Sada's interactions with the Maestro and they were all at ease. Thanks a lot MayilSK for getting the IR specific portions separated out.

IR does show lot of respect to Latha and Aasha and he did talk earlier (kumudam interview I think) about how Aasha wants to be challenged and that spurs his creativity as well. He even respects Hariharan in that he had mentioned about how great a singer Hari is during 2011 Chennai Concert. This is the first time I'm hearing IR directly complementing SPB and saying no one else could have sung that Telugu ghazal song better than SPB, anyone know what song is that? 

I also agree with DM that IR has the highest regards for SJ's capabilities as a singer and the proof lies in those innumerable songs rendered by SJ for IR. I feel that the spoon-feeding comment is applicable to any singer who sang or sings for IR as he expects a specific output from the singer. Even in Asha's case, she didn't improvise on her own and rather requested to provide a more challenging phrase, that's how I felt. Overall, none of IR's answers with respect to SPB or SJ surprised me.

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Post  crimson king on Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:12 pm

Caught up with the part I had missed.  Netru Indha Neram was great, Pop Shalini on Vetti Veru was the surprise package.  To be honest (and I had this feeling after the Vijay TV show also), I am beginning to feel that at least in the live shows the younger singers are doing a better job for IR.  Age has caught up with the stalwarts, even Chithra was not very comfortable on O Priya.  Overall what could have been a very interesting show given the song selections turned out the most disappointing, in terms of performances, of the shows I have watched so far. Vijay TV was the previous most disappointing and Kings of Kings 'outdid' that. But I am happy the show reminded me of Metti Oli which I heard after ages.  And the Raja one on one was far more interesting than the songs which began to feel like an interruption rather than vice versa.

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Post  app_engine on Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:43 pm

I guess IR chose to answer the "sadist" allegation using nilA kAyudhu Laughing

IMHO, it was nothing to belittle SJ (or any singer) but to explain his style of music making.

And definitely as a reply to the "sadist" prachchAram! Wink

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Post  crimson king on Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:52 pm

I don't think what he said about SPB was in an uncomplimentary light.  More like he himself acknowledged he doesn't praise his singers easily.  I have felt from watching him in these shows/interviews that he is not very comfortable openly expressing his emotions and maybe the strict headmaster image is a mask.

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Post  V_S on Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:00 pm

rajkumarc wrote:Thanks Nerd for sharing the concert videos. Watched only part1 so far and liked Netru Indha Neram, Metti Oli Kaatrodu, Vaa Vaa Pakkam Vaa, Vetti Veru Vaasam. 

Loved watching IR's anecdotes - favorite being the Aananda Raagam deconstruction, mindblowing to say the least. Loved Napoleon and Sada's interactions with the Maestro and they were all at ease. Thanks a lot MayilSK for getting the IR specific portions separated out.

IR does show lot of respect to Latha and Aasha and he did talk earlier (kumudam interview I think) about how Aasha wants to be challenged and that spurs his creativity as well. He even respects Hariharan in that he had mentioned about how great a singer Hari is during 2011 Chennai Concert. This is the first time I'm hearing IR directly complementing SPB and saying no one else could have sung that Telugu ghazal song better than SPB, anyone know what song is that? 

I also agree with DM that IR has the highest regards for SJ's capabilities as a singer and the proof lies in those innumerable songs rendered by SJ for IR. I feel that the spoon-feeding comment is applicable to any singer who sang or sings for IR as he expects a specific output from the singer. Even in Asha's case, she didn't improvise on her own and rather requested to provide a more challenging phrase, that's how I felt. Overall, none of IR's answers with respect to SPB or SJ surprised me.
+1 My thoughts exactly (watched both the parts).

One of the best orchestrated Maestro concerts. They were in full form. Pandit Ballesh, Cello Shekar, Arunmozhi, Sada sir, the whole violin section, ever smiling versatile rhythm section person (every time I forget his name) all in their fullest form. I loved the whole interaction part with IR, first time in any concert, I felt like home.

The pinnacle moment of the show is Aanandha Raagam discussion, breath-taking orchestra and ever solid, but much under-rated Uma Ramanan. I already repeated that part more than 5 times. Uber cool and rock solid with not a single expression on her face yet delivering the high voltage portions like a fearless lion.

I liked the show despite some poor singing (mainly because of the breath-taking orchestra). Especially the first few songs were horrible, but it got better and better as the time went by. May be Chitra was having cold, she sounded so nasal. SPB and Chitra performed better in the later part of the show. Vetti vEru vaasam by Pop Shalini was a big surprise and she did well. Overall not the best of all his concerts, but not disappointing either.


Last edited by V_S on Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post  app_engine on Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:01 pm

In one thing IR had been pretty consistent - right from his Kumudam interview in early'80s to this Jaya TV thingy.

That LM's voice is the best ever. (mention of "engirundhO azhaikkum"). He even contrasted her sister on that aspect, who had to do "gimmicks" to cover for the lack of a super voice.

BTW, at the same kumudam interview (and on other occasions too) rAsA maintained that SJ had the top "vidwatvam" (talent? versatality? skill? whatever that word means).

He did say that none can match SJ on that! (That was possibly the reason he had SJ do a major share of the toughest songs, including ponmEni & nilA kAyudhu!)


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Post  sagi on Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:02 pm

But why praise Aasaji and Hurryji to the hilt? Especially Hurryji. He even clapped when he was performing at Canada.

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Post  app_engine on Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:03 pm

Nerd wrote:But why praise Aasaji and Hurryji to the hilt? Especially Hurryji. He even clapped when he was performing at Canada.

That is kodumai Embarassed

Like puthra / puthri pAsam, another vENdAdha piriyam Sad

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Post  kiru on Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:31 pm

I am afraid Nerd is probably taking things out-of-context with regards to SPB, SJ and MV comments. Thanks to mayil, I was able to watch only the IR anecdote sessions.
It is all cool.. only place I thought he was little forceful was when talking about nila kaayudhu . I think he did not want people to think singers are improvisizing on his 'base' tune/directions :-)
I did not see the Hariharan comment yet.. but I have seen Hari touch Raja's feet in one concert ..maybe some mutual admiration. Hari does have a good voice and when he is not in his 'naada brahma' mode :-) is a musical pleasure to listen to.


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Post  rajkumarc on Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:33 pm

I think IR also has high regards for PSuseela as well. Remember the MSV-TKR function where he showered praises on the Nenjam Marappathillai tune, he did say to PS who was on Stage as well "Amma, enna maadhiri paattellaam paadi irukeenga.. maraka mudiyuma".

This is just my theory for IR not praising his singers (SPB, SJ, Chitra and others) publicly - He hates glowing over his own compositions and prefers not to indulge too much on that aspect. Praising any of these singers who sang a vast majority of their songs in his compositions would be directly praising his own compositions. He definitely will not do that. Even in the Aanandha Raagam deconstruction he just talks about the idea behind the song and nothing more. He even declares that this is not a composition but just an exercise.

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Post  jaiganesh on Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:15 am

Is Hulkster in our new forum?

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Post  app_engine on Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:17 am

jaiganesh wrote:Is Hulkster in our new forum?

I don't think so. At least, not with the same / similar handle Smile

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Post  baroque on Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:34 am

mayilSK wrote:Spliced the portions where Raja talk/sing.  Wink 

Raja talks about Janani, SPB, Amma Endrazhaikkadha, Malaysia, Anandha Raagam, Asha, Latha, Janaki, Poove and the way a song 'just lands on his lap' - in that order.

https://vimeo.com/84643935

thanks...
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Post  V_S on Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:00 am

I heard another story on Ashaji from Gangai Amaran recently that he only introduced her in Enga ooru pattukkaaran. He even said IR rejected his offer of introducing Ashaji in thamizh films as it will not suit, but later on accepted. Here in this video, looks like IR introduced Asha ji in 'enga ooru kaadhala paththi' song from puthu paattu and then GA requested him to feature her in shenbagamE shenbagamE. Also puthu paattu is a 1990 film and enga ooru paattukaaran is a 1987 film. Which one is true?

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Post  app_engine on Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:39 am

V_S wrote:Which one is true?

IR's memory is typically sharp (as such high IQ, genius & less vices Laughing ) and I'll take his version. (There had been any number of songs getting "sold", appearing in another album etc. So, year of release is no big deal, especially when the director of puthuppAttu happens to be Panju A Smile )

Another reason - can anyone imagine these sister singers flying down from Mumbai to sing for GA in 1987? rotfl

It's pretty obvious they came at the behest of (and because of the respect they had for) rAsA. GA wasn't that big a director at any point (at the time of EOPK, he was just one hit and a few duds director). Even the producer would have signed him up only for rAsA's sake...appadi irukka enga irundhu Asha / Latha ellAm?

(May be IR also watched the program you mentioned - that of GA bragging about Asha, so wanted to straighten things up, possibly)

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Post  V_S on Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:50 am

Thanks App ji. I too wanted to believe IR's version, but still have that doubt when GA spoke about it in ManathOdu Mano (If I remember correctly). Anyway I think singers sing for music directors even if they don't know about directors. Since both the films are by IR, hence the doubt Smile May be puthu paattu song was composed three years before it was released, which was little hard to believe.

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Post  app_engine on Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:25 am

V_S wrote:May be puthu paattu song was composed three years before it was released, which was little hard to believe.

True, generally movies didn't take much time those days - unless there had been a problem (with funding / no takers etc).

There are examples of many movies such as oomai veyil that never came out (even though the songs were radio hits). Many internet sources say maNippoor mAmiyAr as an 80's movie whereas the disk was a 70's one and the movie possibly didn't get released at all.

IMG, the song got recorded by IR possibly for some other project in 1987. It could have kept changing hands / dropped-restarted etc and rAsA possibly didn't want to leave out his pet track, first duet with Asha, that comedy song.

So, that's how it possibly got included in puthuppAttu in 1990 (this movie was IR's own production and Panju Arunachalam's directorial attempt - possibly the only one directed by him and a disaster).

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