Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

This is interesting. I am clearly in a minority here, but hey! where's the fun if we all agree on everything all the time eh?   Coming to the points raised, firstly, please, Baradwaj Rangan is far from an ARRtard or IR fan baiter. On the other hand, there is ample evidence in his writings that he is an IR fan. Yes, he leans towards 80s IR and evidently doesn't respond too well to his 90s and 00s work, but so what? Everyone has their personal tastes - I myself mostly lean towards the 80s IR, though I also like lot of the new stuff - and if BR doesn't, we shouldn't begrudge him for that.

Next, consistency is definitely important. If, as some of you have suggested, he goes on to wax eloquent about, say ARR's score or songs in his Kochadiyan review or rhapsodizes over MahlerofMadras for his patronage of the Budapest symphony Orchestra, then I will gladly re-evaluate my assessment of his unbiasedness and agenda-free reviewing as I see it, and I will have absolutely no qualms in calling him out for his double standards and hypocrisy. I will also be happy to admit that I am a naive fool for wasting my time by defending him in so many words.

Now as to the function of the background score, I am in broad agreement with most of you that it is an important aspect of good movie making and vastly enhances the movie-watching experience. The Good Bad and Ugly finale is nothing without Ennio Morricone's score. Once upon a time in America, though arguably a masterpiece by itself is taken to dizzying heights, thanks to Ennio Morricone. Coming to Tamil, Sigappu Rojakkal is again, nothing without IR's work; even an excellent movie like Salangai Oli would not be half the movie without the music. Let's not get into the dozens of garbage movies which are endurable ONLY due to IR's BGM. 

Coming to OA, let us assume that in BR's subjective, unbiased opinion, the score didn't work well or perhaps did not stand out as exceptional ( I suspect this must be the case). What then would you expect him to write about it? Remember that this is a movie review and he can't get into technical details of the music, like he points out. The safest thing is to say nothing at all. Well, I concede he could/should have said something like "in the traditional symphonic mould" or "The score is an important constituent of the narrative" in the original review , but that's about it. It's hard to say something enhanced your experience when it didn't. Many people like Hans Zimmer's scores, but I feel they are often over the top with loud horns and no hummable leitmotifs. If I were paid to review "The Dark Knight", Hans Zimmer would only get a passing mention.

Now if this were a music review, then of course one expects the reviewer to talk more about the technical details and what is on offering and not let his own preferences and biases creep into the review. But as we all know this is a tall order - and that's precisely why discerning movie and music buffs are smart enough to know which reviewers to take seriously and account for personal preferences and occupational constraints (i.e understand that reviewers can't trash every Tamil movie - often the case with BR these days ) in reviews and more importantly know who to disregard. Which is why the silly IR fans begging a nobody like milli to give a second listen to Megha and come up with a 100 or 200 word review is very amusing.

P.S: That potshot on the "Munnani isai" thing is unwarranted, I agree.

Actually, I have no problem if he praises Kochaidiyan BGM and not OAK.  It is just his opinion at the end of the day and, having read many of his reviews, I don't necessarily consider him the cat's whiskers when it comes to describing music that his acolytes seem to think he is.  But I think reviewers in general - and not just BR - should mention their evaluation of the BGM, lighting and other technical aspects of the film.  That is what makes it a complete, comprehensive review and that is the least I expect from a person who is paid to write about films.  These days, paid critics are too caught up in giving their lazy opinions on films or music, as applicable.   Somebody should tell them that people read their reviews to form impressions about films and make a decision on whether or not they should watch the film.  If they don't want people to rely on their reviews at all to watch films, they should not review them when they are current and instead wait for the DVD and watch it several times before giving a considered opinion.   But just raving or writing off a film in a few words serves no purpose...I can very well read a friend's tweets for that, why do I need to read a paid reviewer.  

Sadly, very few reviewers in India have the necessary detachment to do their job as professional critics.  In fact, some like BR, even celebrate their biases.  I do enjoy reading his reviews, mind, because they can be entertaining to read but I would not rely on them for my decision when it comes to certain filmmakers.   The only reviewer I have found to be consistently detached and reliable is Rashid Irani, who was a long time TOI reviewer and has since been writing for HT.  He keeps it short and sweet, especially these days (he is probably very old now), but I have rarely found his judgment dubious.  

On another note, BR mentions that he had not heard the BGM score before the film.  If that is the case, I am not sure he is much of an IR fan anymore.  He might have been way back when.  When the score is offered as a free download, how much effort does it make for a music fan to just go and have a listen.   It is possible that he may have resisted it so as to not bias his movie experience, but a really big fan of IR would not, I think, be able to wait that long to find out.

Sirs, basic question   - how can you not notice the music in this movie, and not form an opinion about it (Pudichidhu/Pudikala)?
No songs, minimal dialogues, 2.5 hrs long - the music is present throughout the movie!! I find it hard to believe that as a professional movie reviewer, BR/Sudhish didn't 'notice' the music.

Now, making yet another 'reasonable' assumption that any reviewer worth his salt would have observed the music and formed an opinion about it, it is intellectual dishonesty to not share this 'opinion' with his readers  . And to write another article rationalizing his omission is extending this intellectual dishonesty, IMO.

Now, as to why this omission, I can only guess:

<wears conspiracy theorist hat   >

Praise Raja -> Irk Mani/ARR -> Lose 'exclusive' interviews for upcoming Kochadaiyan etc. -> Lose page hits on his blog etc.

crimson king wrote:On another note, BR mentions that he had not heard the BGM score before the film.  If that is the case, I am not sure he is much of an IR fan anymore.  He might have been way back when.  When the score is offered as a free download, how much effort does it make for a music fan to just go and have a listen.   It is possible that he may have resisted it so as to not bias his movie experience, but a really big fan of IR would not, I think, be able to wait that long to find out.

Ya, he already said it in that post on the pre NEPV interview with Gautam Menon, right - different churches and all that. So I am not surprised he didn't bother hearing the tracks. But I am thinking maybe he still listens to at least the 80s songs, but who knows...and who cares...

Unrelated btw, but I recently came across an interview by Keith Peters (ARR's bass player) where he says that before ARR there was no prominence for the bass guitar in TFM . I am usually very skeptical of conspiracy theories, but taken collectively, all these things - i.e ARR and his coterie (both professional and the unpaid ARRtards) attempting to rewrite history and take away any innovation that could be rightfully ascribed to IR (harmony, counterpoint, bass guitar..what next violins, acoustic guitar and flute too?), prominent critics like BR, Sudhish consciously avoiding bringing up his work and all the negative press for IR and his arrogant ways, I wonder - Is there really some large scale conspiracy to completely discredit IR and rewrite TFM as something that really blossomed only after 1992?

I don't think it is a conspiracy.  It is just that musicians - and by implication, the people working with them - sometimes like to appropriate credit for things they didn't invent, because it makes them feel good about themselves.  I am not saying all are like that.  I have never heard IR attempt such things.  But one prominent example I can think of is the way Eddie Van Halen appropriated credit for introducing tapping in rock guitar.  As a matter of fact, he did NOT.   There are many Genesis recordings going back to even 1971 (7 years before Van Halen's debut) where their guitarist Steve Hackett used tapping.   I can understand a typical rest-of-the-world-doesn't exist American might be unaware of Hackett's work but I recently noticed something that came across as tapping in a Steely Dan track.   How could either Eddie or the music press feign ignorance about a very popular American rock band?  But it is what happened and for a long time, Van Halen's status as an influential guitarist was elevated far above what he deserved.  Even Metallica waxed about their use of orchestra in the S&M concert whereas orchestra had already been used in rock in the 70s. So the ARR camp is not unique in that regard.   At heart, bigtime musicians like to think he is the best, the ultimate, the inventor incomparable and this ego comes through directly or indirectly in their interviews.   What is missing in India is an informed and brave media that would put such lofty claims in their rightful place; instead journalists meekly endorse whatever say the ARR camp says.

That different churches thing was incredibly condescending by the way.  It is one thing for a reputed filmmaker like Tarantino to say that about Scorcese and another for a music reviewer to say that about Ilayaraja.

It is a fact that our fellows go begging from blog to blog for positive views. This from Plum on twitter, our guys deserve this and more from Brangar and more. Insecurity nu dhaan velila padum when our folks go asking milliblog and Enaya every other self professed critic for positive reviews and their views on IR's music for every film.

Drunkenmunk wrote:It is a fact that our fellows go begging from blog to blog for positive views. This from Plum on twitter, our guys deserve this and more from Brangar and more. Insecurity nu dhaan velila padum when our folks go asking milliblog and Enaya every other self professed critic for positive reviews and their views on IR's music for every film.

Absolutely.   As I have said before, I am indifferent to BR's views on Ilayaraja or anybody else at the end of the day.  I have my views and he has his; it;s great if he likes IR's current work and if he doesn't, no sweat.   It is not nice to ask bloggers to 'correct' their blogspots.   Besides, IR has achieved so much already.  How does it matter what Karthik or anybody else thinks of his work?  And it's not like he is a truly obscure musician, he is hosting successful shows in India and abroad.

I read the BR rebuttal. Why so much trouble to justify his review ? kuRRamuLLa nenjam kurukurukkum ? (Guilt consciousness)
Our society is full of biases, many people are forced to accept/acknowledge IR because of the quality and quantity of his work. Otherwise, they would have easily relegated him to the dumpster. BR is in my view one of those who would like to berate IR, but unfortunately, the facts are staring at him and he is forced to make concessions. As vicks said, pure "intellectual dishonesty". BTW, "munnani" isai does not become "foreground" music. I hope we all know tamil. munnani means "leading" . it is just a play on "pinnani" and the opposite is not exactly "opposite".

BTW, re: "our fellows clamoring for approval in other blogs" - just because somebody is an IR fan, we cannot control them. Please take a look at the comments for IR songs in youtube. Our society is a bit emotional kind I guess :-) Like they say in politics - "we will not be able to control our thondar padai" :-)

Right, but that also lends credence to the view held in the 'other' camp that IR and his followers are an insecure bunch.  So we should not be surprised if they say so because some people from 'our' camp do get too enthusiastic about others' opinions on IR.

EDIT:  And BR has written these kind of justifications before in his blog.  I think he wrote one after he went against the grain and praised Kadal, I don't remember exactly.   I think he is probably a little less thick skinned than he makes himself out to be and gets a bit offended deep down about some of the comments he gets.  It's good he sticks to movies and music then.  He should try writing about cricket and Tendulkar in particular.

kiru u nailed it "I read the BR rebuttal. Why so much trouble to justify his review ? kuRRamuLLa nenjam kurukurukkum ? (Guilt consciousness)" yes. everyone has their opinions. and one couldnt say anything about bgm and when someone comments why no comment on bgm there comes a big article pulling out a detailed why nothing said and the quote about munnani just shows how insecure the article was:lol:

munnani isai in the title cards seems to have hit a nerve especially peter maamas/ARtards   what they
don't seem/want to get is that a case can be made for Raaja being a 'auteur' if we take into
account of many on-set screenplay writers who got their backs saved time and again by his scores.

Wizzy, you forget that there was no such thing as BGM in Indian movies before ARR, you know.     ARR is da man!!!

idha pAkkaNum: https://twitter.com/mayilSK/status/388901414967074817 looks like 1 director's idea to pay a tribute 1 composer has touched a raw nerve among folks. yennA andha evamkarthik oda reNdu tweet ayum Retweet panni endorse senjavanga ARR fans. LOL!

LOL. This munnani isai thing seems to have really hit a raw nerve in some people. I find it puzzling. Why? What's the big deal if Myskin wants to call it that? And thinking about it, BR dismissing it as a marketing gimmick is actually quite revealing because this is the same BR who asked GM "Why IR?"..and anyway, how many years is it since a movie with IR's music became a solid hit? Surely BR knows the answer being a professional reviewer. Marketing gimmick? Yeah right.

And LOL at Plum.

IdhellAm pArtha nammulukkum tuittterku varanaumnu oru temptation varudhu. The place seems to be brimming with arivu chudars.

So..it seems the verdict is that OAK has in fact recovered its costs?  People living in TN, please enlighten me.

crimson king wrote:So..it seems the verdict is that OAK has in fact recovered its costs?  People living in TN, please enlighten me.

Gauging by the fact that so many people on twitter seem so awfully upset, I'd guess yes.

fring151 wrote:LOL. This munnani isai thing seems to have really hit a raw nerve in some people. I find it puzzling. Why? What's the big deal if Myskin wants to call it that? And thinking about it, BR dismissing it as a marketing gimmick is actually quite revealing because this is the same BR who asked GM "Why IR?"..and anyway, how many years is it since a movie with IR's music became a solid hit? Surely BR knows the answer being a professional reviewer. Marketing gimmick? Yeah right.

And LOL at Plum.

I did not like that question either.  That interview as such was filtered too much through BR's biases and did not inform as much as it could have, given that there was so much to actually talk about.  If BR really wants to be 'objective' and focus on commercial realities rather than his preferences (as he tries to project it to be w.r.t IR's commercial position), what about Naan Kadavul?   

As I hinted before, I am not sure there is all that musicality involved in BR's analysis of music.  Maybe it was there in his early days as critic (because I hear some people raving about his music analysis) but I find he gets swayed by popular opinions.  He rated Barfi soundtrack very highly.  The soundtrack may have worked well with the film but musically, only one song, the Shafqat Amanat Ali ghazal, had something interesting to offer.  And he also rated the Ka-dull songs very highly.  He is free to, I am not going to question his right to or ask him to change his reviews.  But that sounds to me more like a film music buff than somebody deeply interested in music per se.

Yes. But for the marketing gimmick, I liked what he said to be honest. And yes, the film has recovered its cost it looks like. And how many years since an IR film was a hit in Tamil? 4? (Naan Kadavul?) or 9? (Virumandi?). LOL!

fring151 wrote:IdhellAm pArtha nammulukkum tuittterku varanaumnu oru temptation varudhu. The place seems to be brimming with arivu chudars.

naan annikkE kooptEn. Basically, like Kannadasan said, iraNdu kaigaL, naangaanaal, iruvarukkEdhAn edhirkAlam.

Drunkenmunk wrote:Yes. But for the marketing gimmick, I liked what he said to be honest. And yes, the film has recovered its cost it looks like. And how many years since an IR film was a hit in Tamil? 4? (Naan Kadavul?) or 9? (Virumandi?). LOL!

Also, though they only had IR originals repackaged for Hindi, Cheeni Kum was above average and Paa was a hit.   Unfortunately for some people who pretend to be in touch with reality, there are filmmakers who don't find IR's work so desperately uncool.

EDIT:  And Balki has never suggested that IR cannot write great originals anymore.  He singled out a single theme of BGM from Paa to show how some of his themes can be converted into songs in their own right.   He just wanted to introduce IR's music to Bollywood audiences.  I honestly think that mission has been modestly successful at best but IR's presence did not hurt the box office fate of Balki's films.

Drunkenmunk wrote:Yes. But for the marketing gimmick, I liked what he said to be honest. And yes, the film has recovered its cost it looks like. And how many years since an IR film was a hit in Tamil? 4? (Naan Kadavul?) or 9? (Virumandi?). LOL!

I didn't like what he said about foreground music either. As Nerd has superbly put it a couple of pages back, Mysskin wanted him to set the pulse (literally). He wanted to "fill it up with IR's music", in his own words. That's been Mysskin's signature - especially evident in Nandalala (more 'emotional' and 'personal' score), Yutham Sei and Mugamoodi

There are two things:
1. I don't care what the director wanted, as a rasigan, i didn't like it - Fair enough [Aside: We'd say the same for Raghu thambi's orthogonal scores]
2. BGM na irukkara edame theriyapdaadhu, attention seeking a irukkakkoodaadhu blah blah - dei vennaigala, swamigalukku theriyumda eppo adakki vaasikkanum, eppo parade a kalappanum nu <insert vadivel's joodhu engalukkum theriyum nee moodu emoticon>

Bala (Karthik) wrote:2. BGM na irukkara edame theriyapdaadhu, attention seeking a irukkakkoodaadhu blah blah - dei vennaigala, swamigalukku theriyumda eppo adakki vaasikkanum, eppo parade a kalappanum nu <insert vadivel's joodhu engalukkum theriyum nee moodu emoticon>

 neenga neenga dhaan.

vicks wrote:
If the score didn't make an impact on Brangar (which is what he seems to be implying), I just feel sad for him. I saw the movie recently, and boy, the score was anything but unimpacful. There were so many scenes where I was literally moved to the point of shedding a few tears - the scene where the doc changes his mind to help the boy to save Wolf's life, anytime Walking through Life and Death is played in the background etc. And not to mention all the fight/chase BGMs. 


I mean, how can Sudhish Kamath/Brangar just ignore a monster of a score like this - sure they may not understand it (neither do I), but to not mention it, and then write articles rationalizing their reviews, is just sad. Would they have ignored mentioning John Williams if they were reviewing Schindler's List? Or Clint Mansell for Requiem for a Dream?

It's one thing to say that one found the music too loud and in your face (i'd vehemently disagree of course but that that man that that idhu)
However, either you say you didn't notice the BGM OR you say it was screaming for attention etc etc. Aana, rendume eppadi solla mudiyum??

He talks about leitmotifs in other scores, idhula illaadha leitmotif a? For one, When Sree meets the wolf (1st time), when Sree himself starts hunting thw wolf (pre-interval) and Sree's turn around once again when he leaves the cemetery [track peru therila] -> essence of onaai, aatukkutti and the oscillation between these states. Ennamo ponga, onniyum sollrathukkilla