Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

Usha wrote:from madhura sudha

yarunu theriyanam illa.......... what a word. true.........

saranam bhava karuna  - bit song....... nice one.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQaO_y120rs


about padariyen padipariyen patri......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfnEk4PqlDs

I think this gentleman is an epitome of a real rasika, a real raja music rasika. I thought I really enjoy our man's songs. But I feel I only enjoy .000001 % compared to this man. What an appreciation for classical music, the idiom of film and even appreciation for WCM. He talks about 'maanaseeka' saashtanga namaskaram' to IR, my ' saashtanga namaskaram'  to this gentleman first !!!!!

I am listening to my staple morning listening of geethanjali and ramanamaalai.. One thought occurred to me ..music directors who do devotional or are capable of doing devotional (only ?) can bring the same emotional impact to secular subjects.

Deepa Ganesh does some IR references in her praise for another composer Debojyoti:
http://www.thehindu.com/entertainment/movies/debojyoti-mishras-conversations-through-music/article19358715.ece

An accomplished violinist that he was, Debojyoti was the lead, solo violinist for Satyajit Ray. He worked for 14 years as chief assistant to great composers like Salil Chowdhry and Ilaiyaraja.
...
...
He brings diverse idioms together and coalesces them into a form and narrative that is entirely his own. If Ilaiyaraja could get Tyagaraja to hold a conversation with Bach (Nothing But Wind), Debojyoti collapses Beethoven’s symphony into the score of Meghe Dakha Tara.

kiru wrote:

Usha wrote:from madhura sudha

yarunu theriyanam illa.......... what a word. true.........

saranam bhava karuna  - bit song....... nice one.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQaO_y120rs


about padariyen padipariyen patri......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfnEk4PqlDs

I think this gentleman is an epitome of a real rasika, a real raja music rasika. I thought I really enjoy our man's songs. But I feel I only enjoy .000001 % compared to this man. What an appreciation for classical music, the idiom of film and even appreciation for WCM. He talks about 'maanaseeka' saashtanga namaskaram' to IR, my ' saashtanga namaskaram'  to this gentleman first !!!!!

amam kiru.. ragam nyanam irundhu, Ilaiyarajavin theevira rasigaragavum irundhu... rasithu.. adhai ipadi azhagaga sonna oru periya
kalainyan dhan ivar......

ipodhu Shanmugapriya ragam.. romba azhagaga solli irukirar... indha viewil.. IRin Shanmugapriyavai naan kaetadhu ilai dhan......
Really Simply Super Narration.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWAHndkXKCo

app_engine wrote:Deepa Ganesh does some IR references in her praise for another composer Debojyoti:
http://www.thehindu.com/entertainment/movies/debojyoti-mishras-conversations-through-music/article19358715.ece

An accomplished violinist that he was, Debojyoti was the lead, solo violinist for Satyajit Ray. He worked for 14 years as chief assistant to great composers like Salil Chowdhry and Ilaiyaraja.
...
...
He brings diverse idioms together and coalesces them into a form and narrative that is entirely his own. If Ilaiyaraja could get Tyagaraja to hold a conversation with Bach (Nothing But Wind), Debojyoti collapses Beethoven’s symphony into the score of Meghe Dakha Tara.

Oh, he assisted Ilayaraja va?  In that case, I find it necessary to point out that he did an interview with Rahman where he praised the latter for introducing apparently unprecedented complex techniques from the West to India (and Rahman nodded and mentioned counterpoint without any contradiction from Debojyoti).  Bloody turncoat!

NDTV - எக்கச்சக்கமான பிழைகள் இந்தக்கட்டுரையில்.

இந்த அளவில் தான் இன்று பத்திரிகைத்துறை இயங்குகிறது

http://movies.ndtv.com/tamil/kollywood/ilaiyaraajas-musical-journey-1730504

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159144969220581&id=560650580

paamarargal rasisthargal.. Pandhidhargal marukka mudiyamal dhigaithargal. Unmaiyana varathai.. About IR.....

madhura sudha youtube for Sindhu Biravi

rajavai patri ivar sollum vaarthaigal... azhagana unmai.........

ragam patri solli.. adhil IR special endru sollum vidham. so sweet....

aranamai epadi amaikirar Ilaiyaraja aiya endru parthal....

nice.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO_pQPW9x6w

Usha wrote:madhura sudha youtube for Sindhu Biravi

rajavai patri ivar sollum vaarthaigal... azhagana unmai.........

ragam patri solli.. adhil IR special endru sollum vidham. so sweet....

aranamai epadi amaikirar Ilaiyaraja aiya endru  parthal....

nice.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO_pQPW9x6w

He is a real connoisseur and an open-minded intellectual. I navigated to his youtube on WCM and a response to charu nivedita. What a fantastic response to this callous so-called writer.  The extreme devotion to an art or science apparently frees a man of his biases and idiosyncracies. The ego, the self disappears and only the art or science shows up. This gentleman is a fine example of that. His views on some social problems shows his intellectual rationality. I feel so small when I listen to his videos.. but his smile and pleasure on the beginning and ending of every note, evokes an equal fascination in me, even though I dont understand the domain, like he does. His videos are a must watch for any fan of music.

Pratap Pothen on vetRi vizhA:
http://www.vikatan.com/news/cinema/98017-prathap-pothan-speaks-out-about-vetri-vizha.html

kiru wrote:

Usha wrote:madhura sudha youtube for Sindhu Biravi

rajavai patri ivar sollum vaarthaigal... azhagana unmai.........

ragam patri solli.. adhil IR special endru sollum vidham. so sweet....

aranamai epadi amaikirar Ilaiyaraja aiya endru  parthal....

nice.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO_pQPW9x6w

He is a real connoisseur and an open-minded intellectual. I navigated to his youtube on WCM and a response to charu nivedita. What a fantastic response to this callous so-called writer.  The extreme devotion to an art or science apparently frees a man of his biases and idiosyncracies. The ego, the self disappears and only the art or science shows up. This gentleman is a fine example of that. His views on some social problems shows his intellectual rationality. I feel so small when I listen to his videos.. but his smile and pleasure on the beginning and ending of every note, evokes an equal fascination in me, even though I dont understand the domain, like he does. His videos are a must watch for any fan of music.

That WCM video is a great composition in its own right.  After playing the magnificent overture of the Ninth Symphony, he brings to our attention the fact that Beethoven couldn't hear his own music but he could still create it thanks to their notation system.  Also liked how he brought up the lack of privilege in IR's upbringing, without Rahman's thinly veiled condescension ("learnt English in Chennai" etc).  IR is a living wonder of the world.  But not only writers like CN, most people have difficulty putting his achievements in perspective because of their ignorance of Western music.  I remember in a watsapp chat one Tamil chap said something to the effect that Mani, KB were also greats in their field like Ilayaraja and I said, no, not like Ilayaraja.  Because you can justifiably compare just the harmony compartment of his music (leaving aside the gamakams) to any top Western songwriter and he would compare very favourably if not decimate most of them.  But you cannot compare Mani to FFC, Kubrick, heck, not even Ron Howard. Yes, I know there are limitations in terms of the audience our filmmakers have to cater to but IR operated under the same constraints and trusted the audience a heck of a lot more than these pathetic panderers.

Raaja One man show -Kuala lampur

https://www.facebook.com/kingofkingskl/?hc_ref=ARQQXOanKg3H9pZOd8UM5AznOxIVes-xjjahFNcVo14JhoPA7WZNlrcuTYXYQBCtGoQ

Mani and KB are great directors. IMHO, KB maybe is greater than Mani. I will also not equate them with IR. IR has his own personality and idiosyncracies but he is one of the few geniuses that the country has ever produced, irrespective of the field/subject. Hope Ravi N is reading this, we could throw some artificial intelligent software at IR's works and I am pretty sure it will be able to produce many listenable music using the ideas "learnt" from IR's copious output.

Talks about Ilayaraja at around the 15:00 mark, well summed up.  He's like BR in the sense that he is a fan of Raja and SDB (I am more of Raja and MM - if I have to name only one from HFM). Also addresses his Mari Mari argument which is better articulated in this interview.  Still, his puritanism in this regard doesn't square with his repeatedly blasting the stagnation in Carnatic music.

Also strongly agree with the last part of the interview regarding how tech has pushed music into focusing entirely on creating soundscapes rather than melodic motifs.  I said pretty much the same thing on this forum during the discussion on Athikalai Neram Kanavil.  So while he praises Rahman's 'well roundedness' earlier in the interview, it is that neatness/sanitisation which has brought about this change.  Off key notes remained on old compositions mainly because the composers tired of fixing them but those mistakes made them sound human. That is what is lost today and it is not restricted to singing.  Quantizing is used for example in heavy metal to play the required fill only once and then replicate it throughout the song.  That can never have the feeling of a live performance recorded in the studio which used to be there in 80s metal.

Though BR had subscribed to this "three important MDs" thingy, I liked the way TMK diplomatically removed ARR out of that elite group

If one removes the frills of flowery language, what he effectively told is "ARR is a good sound engineer"

Well, I'm not surprised because most of his views align with an average IRF (and in a later part he himself picks IR as his numero uno favorite)

Good one, overall!

app_engine wrote:

Though BR had subscribed to this "three important MDs" thingy, I liked the way TMK diplomatically removed ARR out of that elite group

If one removes the frills of flowery language, what he effectively told is "ARR is a good sound engineer"  

Well, I'm not surprised because most of his views align with an average IRF (and in a later part he himself picks IR as his numero uno favorite)  

Good one, overall!

 Au contraire I would argue that ARR is the most important music director because, to borrow TMK terminology, he has collapsed its character.  And seemingly permanently.

I liked that interview. He seems to be an admirer of Raaja's music - especially when he corrects that Raaja brought in a sense of layering not just to South Indian film music but to the entire indian film music (that Raaja's hindi output was very very less is a different point). I felt there are two lens here - one where is a fanboy and other where he is a carnatic musician. His criticism of Raaja on Mari Mari Ninne was from that 2nd lens and I think he articulated it well. I am nobody to say if it was right or wrong, but TMK's argument was fair enough (for me). 
TMK also articulated the last part - about today's music focusing more on "soundscape management" instead of "compositional ability". Basically that's exactly what raaja has been screaming from his roof-top since early 2000s. Just that TMK articulated it better I guess - I liked the way he put it - "it doesn't mean we have to erase everything we have today, but we can certainly rethink". 

Overall, good interview.

kiru wrote:Mani and KB are great directors. IMHO, KB maybe is greater than Mani. I will also not equate them with IR. IR has his own personality and idiosyncracies but he is one of the few geniuses that the country has ever produced, irrespective of the field/subject. Hope Ravi N is reading this, we could throw some artificial intelligent software at IR's works and I am pretty sure it will be able to produce many listenable music using the ideas "learnt" from IR's copious output.

I disagree that KB, MR or Shankar were/are good directors. In my view, the only good director in Tamil was Balu Mahendra. It is one thing to be successful, but another to ensure that you pass on the art tot he next generation. The current crop of good directors were mostly trained by BM (there are a few exceptions). One of his finest movies was his last one - Thalaimuraigal.

Our audiences are no different from the average Americans, who swing by the flash of Edison, ignoring his glaring flaws and equate him to be an inventor and scientific genius. 

It will take a very long time for the Indian audience to truly appreciate Raja. I liked a quote I read recently in this context, that is  good perspective. 

"Great art need not be appreciated by all. What the masses appreciate need not be great art too."

ravinat wrote:

kiru wrote:Mani and KB are great directors. IMHO, KB maybe is greater than Mani. I will also not equate them with IR. IR has his own personality and idiosyncracies but he is one of the few geniuses that the country has ever produced, irrespective of the field/subject. Hope Ravi N is reading this, we could throw some artificial intelligent software at IR's works and I am pretty sure it will be able to produce many listenable music using the ideas "learnt" from IR's copious output.

I disagree that KB, MR or Shankar were/are good directors. In my view, the only good director in Tamil was Balu Mahendra. It is one thing to be successful, but another to ensure that you pass on the art tot he next generation. The current crop of good directors were mostly trained by BM (there are a few exceptions). One of his finest movies was his last one - Thalaimuraigal.

Our audiences are no different from the average Americans, who swing by the flash of Edison, ignoring his glaring flaws and equate him to be an inventor and scientific genius. 

It will take a very long time for the Indian audience to truly appreciate Raja. I liked a quote I read recently in this context, that is  good perspective. 

"Great art need not be appreciated by all. What the masses appreciate need not be great art too."

I should watch it then (Thalaimuraigal).  Though...I have to say having finally got around to Arth, I found Marupadiyum to be a disappointing remake.  In fairness, BM was probably let down by his actors.  All of Revathi's tilting at the windmills can't match Shabana's intensity in THAT scene.

I dont know music, but my "user" level understanding of it makes me believe that T M Krishna really is a great music expert. It is based mainly on few observations he made in this interview - Raaja sees the whole before he even composes it . Another comment was on Rahman, "how to sonically deliver a melodic idea" I even subscribe to his notion that MSV condenses the essence in the very first line itself . Great interview, but I am sure some sort of "carnatic" bigtory/egoism comes in his way that makes him cross swords with Raaja, which to me is fair game. Raaja is at a different level than T M K is. He sees an even bigger picture. In my personal opinion, Raaja is doing exactly what we are supposed to do with Raagams.. make songs with it. This "carnatic cultural well" or whatever TMK calls is a social phenomena/development stemming from the stratification of our society .. (which probably happens in all societies). Ideally, there is no classical or popular divide, any thing that stands the test of time is classical.

I liked the way TMK laments about what a true composer's job should be. This interview must be watched by all composers so that a few will go back to their roots and not quote some 'industry trend' as an excuse for their shortcuts. The human element has been missing in even the WCM world and the truly great composers lived about 100 years ago or more. 

I also liked the way he questions what the place of music in movies truly is. That's a profound question - a) is it a filler? b) is it an elevator of the audio visual experience of the audience? c) is it something that is a necessary evil? I would add, if songs are truly required? Creatively, that is part of the Indian culture and it is worth preserving. However, more films than ever before are coming out without songs.

I liked one of the questions that VM raised recently - why do you need 3 months of composing time for a movie that is likely to run for less than 3 days. Unfortunately, the movie business is itself like a giant assembly line and music is just one paint shop in the line. Most directors are like Henry Ford and they will offer you all colors as long as it is black 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMIErjQisho

have not watched this whole interview (old one of Karthik Raaja).  Around the 8 minute mark he talks about how these days there are just music fillers for some scenes.  Reminded me of TM's question of role of music in films that RaviNat elaborates in comment above.

western classical joruney in kalyani ragam.......
IR's work at raaga... ipadi azhagaga sonnavar yarum ilai dhan.....
Madhura sudha.. really great.....

technical details.. counterpoint, immitate counterpoint. etc ellam azhagaga solli irukar..innum muzhudhum kaetkavilai.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX3HsJZ2f-0

Usha wrote:western classical joruney in kalyani ragam.......
IR's work at raaga... ipadi azhagaga sonnavar yarum ilai dhan.....
Madhura sudha.. really great.....

technical details.. counterpoint, immitate counterpoint. etc ellam azhagaga solli irukar..innum muzhudhum kaetkavilai.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX3HsJZ2f-0

There is a follow up to this one Usha akka - posted few hours ago 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRiWKyk2Ag8

I look forward to his next episode where he has promised to challenge IR's critics who write without basic requisite knowledge of WCM

Is there anyway to invite this gentleman to our forum??  RaviNat and Madhura Sudha along with other greats here would be formidable researchers.  I miss DrunkenMunk's analysis (of course app_eng, V_S, Groucho, Kiru, Plum, Jaiganes, Fring - forgive me if I have missed some) and a whole lot of you are all phenomenal in your contributions.