Neethane Enthan Pon Vasantham.

Ramki- vAngo vAngo. Waiting for u only. This weekend -separate forum for Karthikeyan kanfaarmed :thumbsup:

Yeah, adhukku paadaamayE irukkadhu better. Orchestration OK, not humanely possible to recreate. Singing-layum most sooper singers completely miss the point, let alone coming close to the originals.

Nerd wrote:Singing-layum

It was pathetic even in the launch show, IMHO!

Sunithy Sarathy could share only the first name with Sunithy Chauhan...

If someone chosen by Gautam - for singing on stage with London musicians - could not measure up to the original (even to a reasonable degree), what can be expected of not-so-experienced-children...

Again IMHO, the only two NEPV songs that are relatively easy to sing in bathroom are the Karthik solos...'ennOdu vA vA' & 'kAtRaikkonjam niRkachchonnEn'. All others are either tough on throat narambus or complicated in melody (esp. pitch variations).

Novice singers should try out those two...(forget about orch, buy a karoke CD from Gautam)!

Kaatrai Konjam to sing maybe ok , but to play is an extremely difficult task..
The harmonised portions are so intricately weaved and im getting stunned the more and more i listen to it..Now trying to play that last portion where there is a downward chromatic portion , that small portion just elevates it to another level..

This song has given me the most happiness in 2012 and that is getting enhanced in 2013.
NEPV is truly a revolutionary soundtrack much like Guru in 1997.

WARNING :

Series of long posts

Read at your own risk!

======================================================================

Historically, there's a variety of measures to judge the popularity (aka "hit" status) of a song / album.

Some of the criteria were:

a) Oft-requested in 'neengaL kEttavai' 'nEyar viruppam' kind of radio programs, ensuring the frequent broadcast of a song / songs from an album. Makes it heard in many homes at the same time thus giving it a "hit" status. This was perhaps the main method during the radio-only-era. (IR himself has mentioned this when talking about his annakkiLi songs and confirmed enjoying the status of those songs when walking in podhu janam kudiyirukkum streets.)

b) Becoming a darling of "sound-set / mike-set" operators who relentlessly play the disk in all thiruvizhAs / kalyANams / kAdhu kuththoos etc and making them create a sensation in the minds of public

c) An extension of criteria (b) during the late-70's & 80's with the arrival of IR : teakkadais & buses playing the songs frequently. (Please read carefully, I didn't mention "the arrival of cassettes or easy access of technology". This is because, such phenomenon was not noticed elsewhere in the country as much as in TN, even though all of them had restaurants , buses and record / cassette players)

d) Becoming a main choice on-stage for light music programs / college competitions / school dances etc. (My collegemage used to irritate me with the reference of one college light music competition in which IR was a guest but many troupes played 'vAsamillA malaridhu').

e) The commercial criteria of "no of copies sold". Though this was really a good one to judge during "elanthappazham, sekkach chevantha pazham" years, has become questionable of late. Why? Some albums get sold phenomenal numbers thanks to the popularity of the artist / marketing etc but people don't even listen to them beyond one or two times. So, this can be an "also-considered" criteria but not the primary "reality-check" anymore.

f) Like (e), the # of times reported about in the media / the # of youtube views / # of downloads / # of times shown on sat TV networks / # of times broadcast on FM channels etc can be "also-considered" criteria but not the primary "reality-check". Why? Artists & music companies often indulge in unusual amount of promotions / marketing / even technological fraud, to make this happen but in the end of the day, public may not have cared much for that song / album. Some could have even hit the "top charts" at arrival but soon pisu-pisuththufied, with hardly anyone paying attention. (BTW, who runs such charts..especially, is there any credible agency for TFM?). Still, fans of artists will continue to claim "big hit" based on those numbers, though such ones could hardly be called "really popular hits".

g) My personal criteria of "I should have listened to it a few times involuntarily" to qualify the song / album as a hit (This was the measure I mostly employed while picking the "hit" songs for the IR/SPB thread and judged some 400+ acceptable )

Now, let us apply some of these criteria plus some more random things to judge if NEPV songs are hits in the correct sense

ennodu vaa vaa sounds so easy - but to sing is walking on the knife - there are certain sections - where only a trained singer could bring in the cuteness of it out - maththavanga paadinaa music director bharadwaj paadra oru effect vandhudum.. quite tragic

For adjudging the "hit status" of NEPV album / songs, it's pretty obvious that an "outsider" like me is ill-qualified at this point of time. Though I can take some references based on the recent visit of my wife & child to TN, it's still not first hand! Definitely it cannot equal the measurements taken by sipping a hot liquid in a small-TN-town tea shop or travelling in a pAttu-bus to reach & then attending a marriage function in south TN countryside or listening to vividh-bharathi.

Actually, for that matter, these may not be even the prevailing criteria to declare a song 'hit' in today's context. I heard from an associate that most buses in TN have TVs nowadays and play movies non-stop. People would have migrated to mp3 players in marriage halls and it's as easy to play 60's / 70's songs as the latest and any surveys there could twist things very much and making such judging almost impossible. (HC VMF, venkkiram, said in the hub that ARR is non-existent during his recent travel to kAveri delta districts and so was NEPV...instead, people listen to 90's Deva songs it seems, apart from IR and other older music most of the time. While one cannot take his statement on face value, there could be some substance to it - and I tend to attribute it to the easy availability of old music thru MP3s.)

Like I mentioned before, the "number game" is not too reliable either - as albums can create records at the time of launch and not much heard even after a few weeks(except by some HCFs of the artist)...that's not my definition of a hit That way, even though NEPV enjoyed good numbers at launch / youtube / FM etc, those cannot be the main criteria to conclude that the album had "great acceptance" among public who were dying to hear it

So, while I'll anyways be posting my reading of the "reach" of these IR songs (of course, based on my own complicated / convoluted logic ), I invite people who live in TN to post their views about the same. Please feel free to mudsling on this topic for a few days

Now, let me explain why I consider this album (ok, at least a few songs from it) a HIT based on some interesting observations / considerations, which are mostly driven by the more than decade old "TFM-DFer mindset"...

Criteria #1 - very basic - this album should have had a 'more-than-normal-response' from VERY APPRECIATIVE HC fans.

I don't include myself in this group as I am not / was not that much appreciative of all the works of IR in the new millennium So, this is an exclusive group of extremely musically qualified people - like Sureshji & V_Sji - who can spot the difference, new ideas by IR, the extra-special things that are not immediately appreciated by ordinary music listeners like me.

AhA, Sureshji and all appreciate even late 90's songs of IR...how can that make them special, one may ask. Didn't such appreciative fans approve of every work by him (e.g. thAndavakkOnE etc), pointing out nuances / specialities etc. How can it give the song a 'hit' status?

Well, from what I observed as a layman, there happened to be a more-than-usual excitement from even such always-appreciative fans. Sureshji wrote a blog post for each song of the album. V_Sji showered praises on the songs, writing extensively. SenthilVinu went one step further - to create youtubes, doing music-conductor actions with excellent captions describing the special features of the songs.

Such wasn't witnessed for sengathu bhoomiyile or dhoni or thAndavakkOnE (I'm just throwing some names...not against any of those albums, just read as "recent IR works"). Actually, except for the Telugu album Sriramarajyam, I haven't seen this kind of special response from ever-loyal fans.

That way, it passed one basic test

(I hear someone telling "how can anyone know some music and not appreciate one song of IR"? I agree - unless someone has commercial reasons to deny that and to make a living. Just to include this as a necessary criteria - if some album cannot even extra-excite such great, musically sensitive fans, how can we call it a hit? That's all!)

BTW, I'm using some names as quintessential examples only...there are other people who obviously fit into my categorizations (e.g. jaiganesh, skr too are music-savvy & appreciative people, pEr sollalainnu kOchchukkAtheenga)...

skr wrote:
....
NEPV is truly a revolutionary soundtrack much like Guru in 1997.

I agree. The idea is to take classical music more closer to all listeners. I consider TIS as the ultimate album from IR, with Guru on one side (of the bell curve) - serious and NEPV on the other side - fun/comtemporary. I know that pazhassi rAja also falls somewhere in the middle of the bell curve. PR is an album which has the majesty of an orchestral score but it still sounds predominantly indian. Heavy rhythm/drumming is used to pump up the grandeur than complex orchestration.
As an IR fan, I think the boss delivered in NEPV !!!
(BTW, I did hear the latest/greatest/previous from top MDs in different genres. It does not cut for me. Very superficial. IR has internalized the genres very well and it came out of him naturally well in NEPV )

app_engine wrote:..
Well, from what I observed as a layman, there happened to be a more-than-usual excitement from even such always-appreciative fans. Sureshji wrote a blog post for each song of the album. V_Sji showered praises on the songs, writing extensively. SenthiVinu went one step further - to create youtubes, doing music-conductor actions with excellent captions describing the special features of the songs...

Right .. you have to see how MUCH appreciative these gentlemen are !! :-)

Criteria #2 - it should have satisfied, should have got 'AhA arumai' or at least 'paravAlla thEvalAm' kind of responses from "musically-knowledgeable-IRFs-yet-skeptic-towards-his-recent-works" group. (In other words, the 'somewhat-not-easy-to-please' group )

Make no mistake about it, I don't fancy myself in this group as well.

Typical examples would be Shankar (Motorola / Cisco) / Bala(Karthik) / vijayr / Baradwaj Rangan / Srikanth D kind of fans. Some of them still love IR but are quite choosy when it comes to his recent works. Or, rather, choosy always when it comes to music in general and IR in particular. Remember, BRangan talked about a shrunk cult? Such members are still part of this dwindling HCIRF koottam but often choose to toss recent songs / albums by the maestro. (kaNNukkuLLE = maNNukkuLLE, guduvancheri orch better than London etc).

From the responses across the net, one can easily conclude that such fans have more or less warmed up to NEPV. I'm not just concluding this based on the response by B(K) & aakarsh from our own discussion threads (angum - ingum). It's also very evident from the huge amount of response to the three blog posts in the BRangan blog related to NEPV. I quoted the 'rAjA genre' post above. The other two are here:

1. BRangan's brief review of NEPV album got more than 100 comments

2. BRangan's review of the movie , again 100+ comments

While all the comments on the above blog links were not necessarily positive, one can easily infer that AT THE MINIMUM SOME SONGS EXCITED such fans. Thrilled them enough to venture into the net, post comments etc, unlike in the case of most recent albums that were non-descript. Call it Gautam factor or whatever, sufficient enough to check the box

Though Srikanth D doesn't take part in tfmpage or dhool or BRangan blogs at present and does not maintain his blog anymore, we got a brief view of his excitement through some comment in the Srinivas FB page.

So, the album gets pass marks from the "hit" angle, with one more group of people

Criteria #3 - The album should have got a good response from all other IRFs who are not rAgA-thALA-swarA kind of knowledgeable but musically sensitive people. (I consider anyone who can spot IR's music from others belongs to this group, including me )

Interestingly, during the 80's, most of TN belonged to this group - growing their music appreciation skills by leaps and bounds, enabled by the steady stream of high quality stuff presented by IR. Though the industry & commerce has changed the landscape of music appreciation in TN in general, such people have not lost their love for IR's music, despite not being a majority anymore.

The problem with this group is not that much of laziness but confusing appreciation of music also with emotions (and not purely on the musical quotient). Unfortunately, the emotion is not limited to the "emotional content" of the songs themselves but also to such external "emotional" factors - such as "whether they are popular", "whether they have catchiness", "whether everyone will like it" etc

So, this group (which possibly outnumbers the first two groups of fans that we talked about earlier) has developed two behavioural patterns since the late 90's :

1. Don't necessarily check out every recent album of IR...(80's mAthiri illainga! idhu hit album illaiyE, oru vELai nallA illaiyO? Karthik Raja viLaiyAdi iruppArO? chinna producer so it'll be full of synth sounds! ellAppAttum HariharanA? etc...) Sometimes this also is due to "not-having-access" issues.

2. Even when having access to an album, don't take time to give more than a few listens - in case of "packaging issues" like synth orch / kuppai lyrics / bad voice choices etc - to appreciate the beauty in the melody, complexity in the orch etc.

Like I mentioned above, I can speak for this group myself

Now, with NEPV, none of these seemed to matter - Gautam threw all these apprehensions by commissioning UK orch to launch the music No issues w.r.t. access / availability etc. I was thrilled to see the previews in the web, availability on amazon.com etc!

While the brief youtubes presented before the launch failed to generate much excitement, I was clean-bowled with the brief samples on web and didn't waste a minute to get from amazon! The moment I listened to 'mudhal muRai pArtha gnAbakam', I realized this is nothing like what we've been treated for the last many years! Though I excitedly listened to each of the track once, rest of the whole evening got spent with 'mudhal muRai'! I repeat here that it transported me to the college days when arrival of every IR hit created a great sensation within me!

Well, not just me, this album seems to have created overwhelmingly positive response with almost all IRFs - regardless of how they have been receiving his works during the last decade!

Third test passed

Some may ask - you're still playing around among the fans...what about opposite camp? That comes next...

App,
Nalla research and alasal. Please continue. . If I understand correctly the criteria #2, we should not club Bala (Karthik) in criteria #2. Criteria #2 is totally different as you mentioned. They approach Raja selectively and as if he has already lost it. More than the surprise they get from NEPV songs, their bigger surprise is it should not have happened at all. Even BR was initially of that view, but his music review of NEP and his honest praises for NEPV songs makes me think he too shouldn't be in #2. I don't know about others, but I had few friends of mine who had similar opinion about Raja and NEPV.

http://www.arulselvank.com/2013/01/blog-post.html

சற்று முன்பு ... உன்னதங்களை உதறிய முழுமை

Great writeup. This blogger is very supportive of not just the album but also the film. He feel the movie has so many intricacies and says its worked for him throughout and also was able to relate to his life. his twitter handle - https://twitter.com/arulselvan

Nerd wrote:ippO theriyudhaa yEn yaarumE choose pannradhillainnu. Mudiyumaaa? (Mudhal Murai by Sooper Singer)

ROFL!

But judges get that right! (that its not an easy song both for singing and orchestrating) At 30.20 Karthik says, "இதுக்கு நொட்டேஷன் எடுக்கவே பாதி நாள் ஆகிடும் அவ்ளோ கஷ்டமான பாட்டு இது" Anand Vaidyanathan said "ரொம்ப Tough Song, இதை பாடுறது ப்ரெசென்ட் பண்றது ஈசி இல்லை, its a fantastic song"

Who is that lady who comes as spl judge? Opposite camp??

Sakalakala Vallavar wrote:
Who is that lady who comes as spl judge? Opposite camp??

She is singer Madhushree. She sang for ARR in Jab Tak Hai Jaan and also for Yuvan in Aadhi Bagavan. I don't think she sang for IR.

mudhal murai super singer...
imo its a good attempt... sumaaraa nallaa irundha maadhiri irunchu... ofcourse dont expect the perfection along the lines of the original... naan singing patthi mattumdhaan solraen... musical arrangements ellaam limited instruments/talents vechu kondu vara mudiyaadhu...

and madhusree... she is the one who sung mayiliragae/vaaji vaaji/marudhani etc., she sang the sandai kozhi hindhi version too in yuva...
balraam naaidu: she sings five languages in hindhi...
but mainly been chosen for her ease with higher pitches...

as jai said, i would want to see someone singing ennoda vaa vaa... which appears simple.... but the yoyo-like continuous lows and highs in the charanam... not very easy... balar maadhiri yaarachum indha paattai veetla attempt pannirundhaa soundcloud/etube share pannunga... though its sung by my recent fav singer, i wish spb has sung this...
my fav from the album... jeeva cannot fill even 1/4th of the shoe of this song...

SS - But my point was they completely miss the 'point', I mean the emotion while singing. Adhu edhO jolly-aa paaduRa maadhiri paadudhu, andha paattula evLo pack pannirukkaar Raaja, in each and every word. That "yEEEEnO Or" for example.

Anyway here is another video. Kaattrai Konjam this time. Now this is a *little* better. And the girls singing the accompaniment - power of Raaja's orch Karthik's reaction when they sing is priceless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLkDvRJGj20#t=5m52s

app - good set of posts. mothathula nAn endha categorylayum sErththi illainu soosagamA sollittInga, btw ;-)

Nerd wrote:SS - But my point was they completely miss the 'point', I mean the emotion while singing. Adhu edhO jolly-aa paaduRa maadhiri paadudhu, andha paattula evLo pack pannirukkaar Raaja, in each and every word. That "yEEEEnO Or" for example.

Anyway here is another video. Kaattrai Konjam this time. Now this is a *little* better. And the girls singing the accompaniment - power of Raaja's orch Karthik's reaction when they sing is priceless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLkDvRJGj20#t=5m52s

emotion, i understand... aana andha ponnukku adhukkaana vayasu innum varala... adhanaala i was not looking for it...
kaatrai konjam - not impressed... practice sariya pannala... timing ellaam miss...

plum wrote:app - good set of posts. mothathula nAn endha categorylayum sErththi illainu soosagamA sollittInga, btw ;-)

Actually, you're a certified KR fan ...so not in cat 3

Not being able to identify your musical training, I can't say for sure if you're in cat 2...but, going by your Mano posts, definitely neer cat 1 illai

I think you (and those like you) deserve a separate category / post in the end , after I cover 3 more categories of people...

App_Engine:

Only you can write such pointed observation from era to era. Fans to Fans. I doubt anyone has followed Raaja as closely as you from all possible angles. Whenever I read your write-up I always get some insight into Raaja and his musical effects in TN. Kudos to you. Continue writing and needless to say, I'm glad to be mentioned in your write-up and be in the company of some great contributors here.

To add your note, in the early 90's, I was slowly tuning out of Raja (Before ARR came in to the scene) I was highly critical of him and his music. He would satisfy with numbers here and there but I was not content with his works. In the late 90's, I didn't warm up much to Singeravelan, Kadhaluku Mariyathai, Sethu etc... Since then and up to now, it has been a mixed bag for me.

It was only after I became extremely serious about becoming a filmmaker and started pursuing it I gained some insight into what was happening with Raja's music and the reasons behind my dicontenment. I don't want to hijack your write-up so I will defer my personal insights for another time.

Anyway, with those insights in the mid 2000, I decided I will only talk about works I like (in all artists) and not talk about works I don't like. (Unless there is constructive angle to it) Not that, these kind of forums are not good enough to talk critically of Raja's work but I thought it just feeds sharks who have nothing good to say about Raja. So I choose not to criticize his works.

Anyway, I warmed up again to Raja with films like Guru, Hey Ram. And I felt another shift from 2005-2006 onwards in the positive direction. TIS certainly had a big effect on me. And lately, he has been doing some great works like Nan Kadavul, Pazhassi Raja, Mayilu, Azhagarsamiyin Kudhirai, Sri Rama Rajayam, Dhoni, NEP, etc...

Some of these works may not be spoken about in the same breath as his previous work but that is not his fault. Still cannot digest the way Mayilu has panned out as a film The spontaneity of Raja explodes in those songs. It may be surprising but for me Dhoni's "Thaavi thaavi pogum" certainly tops every song in NEP Having said that, I see NEP as a new take by Raja on many different levels and the storytelling in those songs are stronger. So I choose to use that album to jump started some explorations into Raja's works. I hope to continue doing more videos on other film songs.

At this point, I don't care how is work is perceived and whether it is a "hit" etc... I have come to conclusion that Raaja has nothing to prove to anyone. He had achieved five decades of work in two and continues to produce stunning work. I just wish he gets good directors, films to produce good music.

Back to you.

jaiganesh wrote:ennodu vaa vaa sounds so easy - but to sing is walking on the knife - there are certain sections - where only a trained singer could bring in the cuteness of it out - maththavanga paadinaa music director bharadwaj paadra oru effect vandhudum.. quite tragic

and agree

I said earlier and maintain that NEPV songs are not apple-juice, orange-juice kind. These are - I mean each one is - alcoholic and need minimum "experience" to handle them irundhAlum, beer'ukkum scotch'ukkum difference irukkilla?