SPB's "pre-IR" TFM songs / status - only 191 could be found!

With @rajinirams telling that there seems to be no SPB song in those movies and the searches on the net yielding no new results, it looks like curtain for this thread

There's one song that is elusive, however, as mentioned in this MSV times thread:
http://www.msvtimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2355&sid=c675209dfa5e819789df65cc756b391b

Free Birds we are Free Birds எஸ்.பி. பாலசுப்ரமணியம், எல்.ஆர்.ஈஸ்வரி 

That post was by Ragavendar (the NT fan club person) and he hasn't mentioned the movie name   It could be "nee inRi nAnillai" (based on the preceding song in the list) or some other film. Either way, it was supposedly from the year 1976. I cannot recall any such number from my memory, however. If that song could be found on the net with more details, it will be potentially the next (and possibly the last) in this thread.

As long as I cannot find details of that, it is (temporary) end, to this pre-IR-SPB list 

Regardless of our chances of finding a few more missed-out numbers in this "surgical search" thread, one fact is VERY CLEAR!

That SPB didn't have more than 200 songs (ALL in total - hits / unknowns / obscure - everything) in TFM until the arrival of IR. 

If any of those fellows who claim 40K-50K-60K etc recorded numbers for SPB in his career come up with more TFM SPB numbers of 1976 or before, we'll be pleased to acknowledge and record those additions in this exclusive thread.

I am not sure if anyone had done such detailed digging on this subject in the past and if there is one, please feel free to cite the link here and I'll be only too happy to concede

For now, I can happily declare the completion of an unique kind of exercise, conducted by an IRF on the pre-IR songs of SPB in TFM!

Based on the whole set of songs in this thread, following are my personal conclusions (which are not far from what I had when I started my series of posts in the SPB-IR thread on the hub):

1. Unlike SJ, SPB was among the "regular" playback singers of TFM, even though not the #1 choice of the MDs. (It was clearly TMS, especially for top heroes).

2. Arrival of IR, combined with the rise of Kamal later on + Rajini in the following years as leading heroes, boosted the chances of SPB becoming numero uno in TFM.

For any who forgot what I posted in the IR-SPB thread on the hub, here is the link to the first post of my series :
http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?8541-The-Golden-Era-of-Dr-IR-and-Dr-SPB&p=676906&viewfull=1#post676906

a_e on the hub wrote:
Most of us who visit tfmpage / hub frequently are familiar to the fact that IR wasn't the first to use SPB in TFM (or any FM). Specifically in TFM, SPB's first few songs were with MSV / KVM and for big stars Sivaji / MGR.

Despite that, SPB wasn't in the numero uno slot for a decade or so as TMS was the #1 choice for Sivaji / MGR. With the progressive kozha kozha of MGR's voice after being shot and also possibly because of the 'nAttukkAran' connection, KJY got to sing lot more songs than SPB during the 70's for MGR. (avaL oru navarasa nAdakam / idhazhe idhazhe thEn vENdum notwithstanding). In Sivaji's case, it was mostly TMS for Sivaji with SPB typically thrown in to sing for some son / younger brother kind of character in his movies in 70's.

Also, till the arrival of IR, MDs were not typically in-charge of the matters for biggie movies and SPB had to mostly sing for Sivakumar / Vijayakumar level of stars and often for the then-coming-up Kamal. Interestingly, the #1 MD, MSV, wasn't his biggest promoter but there were a variety of others who used him prominently - like V Kumar / Vijayabhaskar / Shankar Ganesh (before IR became #1 in my books, my most fav SPB song was 'unnai nAn pArththadhu veNNilA vELaiyil' by Shankar-Ganesh, movie pattikkAttu rAjA).

The reason for giving the background above is to emphasize how, in a way, the rise of IR helped SPB to get into that formidable position in TFM. The rise of Kamal / Rajini obviously helped but if one looks closely at SPB's curve, it was more of "IR erA" that helped his top position more than that of the rise of these two stars as some of the Mohan starrer songs had more phenomenal reach than that of KH-RK

Also, there were some discussions on those points for few more pages in that thread (including the challenge by genesis and my responses etc).

Looks like I wasn't way off in my remarks, as substantiated by this long rA-mu thread

Total list

S# Song (Movie )
1 Ayiram nilavE vA (adimaippeN )
2 vetRi meedhu vetRi vandhu (thEdi vandha mAppiLLai )
3 neerAzhi maNdapaththil (thalaivan )
4 mAlai nEraththenRal (neerum neruppum )
5 iraNdu kaNgaL pEsum mozhiyil (sangE muzhangu )
6 avaL oru navarasa nAdagam (ulagam sutRum vAliban )
7 iravugaLai pArththadhuNdu (pattikkAttu ponnaiyA )
8 angE varuvadhu yArO (nEtRu inRu nALai )
9 pAdumbOthu nAn thenRal kAtRu (nEtRu inRu nALai )
10 nAn oru mEdaippAdagan (nALai namadhE )
11 anbu malargaLE (nALai namadhE )
12 idhazhE idhazhE thEn vENdum (idhayakkani )
13 pottu vaiththa mugamO (Sumathi en sundari )
14 engaL veettu thangaththEril (aruNOdhayam )
15 ulagil iraNdu kiLigaL (kulamA guNamA )
16 muLLillA rOjA (moonRu deivangaL )
17 enna solla enna solla (Babu )
18 iraNdil onRu nee ennidam sollu (rAjA )
19 uLLam pO enRadhu (gnAna oLi )
20 yamunA nadhi ingE (gauravam )
21 loving is a game (nALai namadhE )
22 it's easy to fool you (oorukku uzhaippavan )
23 eththanai azhagu kottikkidakkudhu (Sivakamiyin selvan )
24 mullaippoo pallakku pOvadhengE (vANi rANi )
25 bhoomiyil thenRal ponnAdai pOduthu (vANi rANi )
26 my song is for you (pAttum bharathamum )
27 mAdhennaip padaiththAn unakkAga (rAjarAja chOzhan )
28 kAdhal kadhai solvEnO (unakkAga nAn )
29 padagu padagu (uththaman )
30 azhagaAm kodi siRidhu (sathyam )
31 kalyANakkOvilin deiveega kalasam (sathyam )
32 sorgaththilE mudivAnadhu (LalithA )
33 sangeetham rAgangaL illAmalA (mOgam 30 varusham )
34 nenjaththil pOrAdum eNNangaL (uNarchchigaL )
35 manmadha leelai mayakkudhu Alai (manmadha leelai )
36 sugam dhAnA sollu kaNNE (manmadha leelai )
37 pasi edukkuRa nEram vandhA (pattAm poochchi )
38 ninaithadhai mudippadhu (Ayiraththil oruththi )
39 How wonderful How Beautiful (mEl nAttu marumagaL )
40 en kAdhali yAr sollavA (thangaththilE vairam )
41 peNkaLukenRoru perumai uNdu (thangaththilE vairam )
42 unnai nAn pArththadhu (pattikkAttu rAjA )
43 ennOdu vandhAn kannOdu ninRan (pattikkAttu rAjA )
44 Asai oru maNi muththam (mAlai sooda vA )
45 pattuppoochchigaL vattamadiththAL (mAlai sooda vA )
46 kadavuL amaiththu vaiththa mEdai (avaL oru thodarkadhai )
47 yArumillai ingE (paNaththukkAga )
48 rAdhA kAdhal varAdhA (nAn avanillai )
49 kalyAnam kachchEri koNdAttam (sollaththAn ninaikkiREn )
50 ArambakkAlaththil adhu irukkum (arangEtRam )
51 kalyANarAmanukkum (mANavan )
52 iyaRkai ennum iLaiya kanni (shAnthi nilaiyam )
53 muthuchchippikkuLLE oru poo vaNdu (kuzhandhai uLLam )
54 Aarambam ingE Akattum (kAviyaththalaivi )
55 kaRpanaiyO kai vandhadhO (mAlathi )
56 chidu chidu engE pOvOm (mAlathi )
57 nALai nAmoru rAjAngam amaippOm (punnagai )
58 anbaikkuRippadhu anA (enna mudhalALi sowkiyama )
59 pourNami nilavil (kannippeN )
60 malligaippoo vAngi vandhEn (pAl kudam )
61 anbu vandhadhu ennai ALa vandhadhu (sudarum sooRAvaLiyum )
62 mangaiyaril maharANi (avaLukkenRu oru manam )
63 Ayiram ninavu Ayiram kanavu (avaLukkenRu oru manam )
64 iRaivan enRoru kavingan (En )
65 varuvAyA vElmurugA (En )
66 unnaith thotta kAtRu vandhu (navagraham )
67 angam pudhu vidham (veettukku veedu )
68 ponnenRum poovenRum (nilavE nee sAtchi )
69 nilavE nee sAtchi (nilavE nee sAtchi )
70 oLi vazhangi maRaikinRa karpooram (avaLukkenRu oru manam )
71 kAdhal jOthi aNaiyAdhadhu (kAdhal jOthi )
72 madhuvai eduththu (vairAgyam )
73 thoduvadhenna thenRalO (sabatham )
74 thirumagaL thEdi vandhAL (iruLum oLiyum )
75 mAdhamO AvaNi (uththaravinRi uLLE vA )
76 unnaiththoduvadhu iniyadhu (uththaravinRi uLLE vA )
77 uththaravinRi uLLE vA (uththaravinRi uLLE vA )
78 pEsu manamE pEsu (pudhiya vAzhkkai )
79 kELvi kEtkum nEramalla idhu (veettukku oru piLLai )
80 inRu mudhal selvamidhu (veettukku oru piLLai )
81 oru malligai mottu (rangarAttinam )
82 thangaththottil pattu meththai (rangarAttinam )
83 O mainA O mainA (nAngu suvargaL )
84 ninaithAl nAn vAnam senRu (nAngu suvargaL )
85 onRE onRu thEnooRum vaNNam (deivam pEsumA )
86 anangan angajan anbam (kaNkAtchi )
87 thuLLum mangai mugam (kaNkAtchi )
88 inRu mudhal nALai varai (soodhAttam )
89 uLLangaL palavidham eNNangaL Ayiram (thirumagaL )
90 mANikkappadhumaikku kANikkaiyAga (neethi dEvan )
91 veLLi muthukkaL nadanamAdum veLLam (meeNdum vAzhvEn )
92 uLLaththil nooRu ninaiththEn (mAppiLLai azhaippu )
93 nEtRu varai viNNil irundhALO (karundhEL kaNNAyiram )
94 poonthamalliyilE oru poNNu pinnAlE (karundhEL kaNNAyiram )
95 on a hot summer morning (rANi yAr kuzhandhai )
96 dingiri dingiri dAl kaNNA (rANi yAr kuzhandhai )
97 pAttukkAran pAdikkAttalAm (thikkuththeriyAdha kAttil )
98 kEttadhellAm nAn tharuvEn (thikkuththeriyAdha kAttil )
99 kuLiradukkudhE kitta vA kitta vA (thikkuththeriyAdha kAttil )
100 ambigai nEril vandhAL (idhO endhan dheivam )
101 geethA, oru nAL pazhagum uRavalla (avaL )
102 Arambam yAridam unnidam thAn (Mr Sampath )
103 kAlangalE kAlangaLE kAdhalisai pAdungaLE (kanimuthuppAppA )
104 kalyANa rAman kOlam kaNdAL (thAikku oru piLLai )
105 nAn kAdhal kiLi (thAikku oru piLLai )
106 endhan dEvanin pAdal enna (ponmagaL vandhAL / iRaivan irukkinRan)
107 kanimuththam padhindhadhu (yAr jambulingam )
108 thEn sindhudhE vAnam (poNNukkuththanga manasu )
109 nAnenRAl adhu avaLum nAnum (sooriyakAnthi )
110 en kAdhal kaNmaNi EdhEdhO ninaiththALO (manjaL kungumam )
111 kadavuL meedhu ANai unnaikkai vida mAttEn (rAdhA )
112 nawAbukkoru kELvi nalla jawAb sollaiyyA (bAgdAd pErazhagi )
113 onRE onRu nee thara vENdum (amman aruL )
114 poongodiyE poongodiyE (school master )
115 kaNNodu meenaikkaNdu (thalaippirasavam )
116 nEtru vERu inRu vERu nALai vERu (vijayA )
117 sondham ini un madiyil (maRupiRavi )
118 orAyiram vairangaL sErndha azhagu (maRupiRavi )
119 edhirpArththEn unnai edhirpArththEn (anbu sagOdharargaL )
120 ammammA ammammammammA ennammA (anbu sagOdharargaL )
121 nee ninaiththa nEramellAm vara vENdumO (peNNai nambungaL )
122 kAdhalikka enakku katRuththandha unakku (peNNai nambungaL )
123 rAjA rAmA raghurAmA (peNNai nambungaL )
124 iru mAngani pOl idhazhOram (vairam )
125 Anandha mayakkam arugil vandha nerukkam (rOshakkAri )
126 dEvan vEdhamum kaNNan geethaiyum (rAjA nAgam )
127 Ayiram Ayiram ANdin munnE (dheergga sumangali )
128 maNi viLakkE mAndhaLirE (unnaiththAn thambi )
129 unakku nAn sondham enakku nee sondham (unnaiththAn thambi )
130 anbu mEgamE ingu Odi vA (engammA sabadham )
131 kAdhal viLaiyAda kattilidu kaNNE (kaNmaNi rAjA )
132 Odam kadalOdum adhu sollum poruL enna (kaNmaNi rAjA )
133 maRandhE pOchchu romba nAL Achchu (aththaiyA mAmiyA )
134 kaNNellAm un vaNNam (onnE onnu kaNNE kaNNu )
135 pAl manam poo manam pAvai manam (onnE onnu kaNNE kaNNu )
136 kAlam ponnAnadhu kadamai kaNNAnandhu (kalyANamAm kalyANam )
137 oorgOlam pOginRa kiLikkoottam ellAm (akkarai pachchai )
138 ponnAna manamengu pOginRadhu (thirumAngalyam )
139 nilavu vandhu vAnaththaiyE thirudikkoNdadhu (thirudi )
140 nee oru rAgamAligai (peN onRu kaNdEn )
141 kAththirundhEn katti aNaikka (peN onRu kaNdEn )
142 enna maharANi azhagu azhagu azhagu (ungaL viruppam )
143 adEyappA adEyappA purindhadhA Asai ippOdhu (ungaL viruppam )
144 kaiya vachchAn kaNNa vachchAn (kadavuL mAmA )
145 azhagE vA arugE vA (kaliyugakkaNNan )
146 dE vAdA rAjA vAdA kaNNu kaNgaL un pakkam (kai niRaiyakkAsu )
147 kaNgaL malarattumE (doctorammA )
148 muthu magan vandhunakkuppoRappAn (thAyppAsam )
149 ennOdu kaNNan En pEsavillai (thAyppAsam )
150 nAn solla vandhEn (pudhiya manidhan )
151 mANikka mAmaNi mAlaiyil (thennangeetRu )
152 samsAram enbadhu veeNai (mayangukiRAL oru mAdhu )
153 OrAyiram kaRpanai (Ezhaikkum kAlam varum )
154 Attaththin thalaivanum (Ezhaikkum kAlam varum )
155 padaiththAnE bramma dEvan (ellOrum nallavarE )
156 EmmA kaNNu mAmA poNNu enaippAradi (ellOrum nallavarE )
157 AvaNi malarE aippasi mazhaiyE (thottadhellAm ponnAgum )
158 panimalai mEgangaL pozhikinRa kuLirinil (thottadhellAm ponnAgum )
159 pongudhE punnagai (ippadiyum oru peN )
160 kottikkidandhahu kani iraNdu (vAzhndhu kAttugiREn )
161 pAl nilavu nEram (anbu rOjA )
162 pannireNdu maNi adiththAl (anbu rOjA )
163 enakkum unakkum vazhakku (thAi veettu seedhanam )
164 engaL kudumbam (oru kudumbathin kadhai )
165 vArththaigaL en nenjil ninRadhu (avaLum peN thAnE )
166 kELu pAppA Asaiyin kadhaiyai (uRavu solla oruvan )
167 muthukkaL sindhi thiththikkum mozhiyil (yArukku mAppiLLai yArO )
168 ennai nee kELu kaNNA (avalukku Ayiram kaNgaL )
169 munniravu nEram un ponnidhazhin Oram (engaLukkum kAdhal varum )
170 pottazhagu konjakkonja (kArOttikkaNNan )
171 rAjA pArunga (piriyA vidai )
172 mAppiLLaikkoru mayakkam vandhadhhu (piriyA vidai )
173 mAlai malarppandhalitta mEgam (akkA )
174 thenralukku enRum vayadhu 16EyanRO (payaNam )
175 nAttukkukkAval veettukkukkAdhal (payaNam )
176 mArgazhippaniyil mayangiya nilavil (muththAna muththallavO )
177 enakkoru kAdhali irukkinRAL (muththAna muththallavO )
178 oru chinnappaRavai annaiyaiththEdi (madhana mALigai )
179 avaL oru pachchaikkuzhandhai (nee oru mahArANi )
180 avaLE en kAdhali (pErum pugazhum )
181 kaNdEn kalyANappeN pOnRa mEgam (mayor meenAtchi )
182 mANikka veeNaiyin rAgam (veedu varai uRavu )
183 kAlam enakkoru pAttezhudhum (pourNami )
184 achcham ennai nerungAdhu (thuNivE thuNai )
185 nAn rAdhai dhAn (inspector manaivi )
186 idhu arangEtRam AgAdha nAttiyam (O manju )
187 iLamai thudikkinRadhu (O manju )
188 mudhal mudhal varum sugam (kAlangalil avaL vasandham )
189 thottilil azhudha kadhai thodarkadhai (nalla peNmaNi )
190 rAdha rAdhA rAdhA konjam nillu (kula gowravam )
191 vAzhga kaigaLiraNdum (kaNavan manaivi )

Phenomenal job sir I really appreciate your patience in collecting these songs and evidences to put up a thorough response to a careless stranger. Even though I was a silent reader of this thread, I have not skipped hearing a single song you posted, just to see what the (music) directors and SPB were up to, those times. Out of these 191 songs, hardly 20-30 songs would have been memorable (according to me) given that I am quite generous , but I totally understand the pain in collecting the film list year-wise and then looking for SPB's songs in those film. The best (worst) part is you are also hearing patiently and writing lyrics to these uninspiring songs. That was some heavy digging and deep diving.

To be honest, what a pain to hear most of the songs. Music directors had no clue in terms of composing; sweetness, orchestration, grip in the melody, everything failed in 70s. Sometimes awful lyrics, and even mushy SPB's singing did not help them at all. Good that you brought forward these severe 70s limitations and how Maestro brought the real SPB that we all know today. Instead SPB gets the 'தூக்கு போட்டுட்டு சாகணும்' message to his dear friend. Well done SPB!!!

nanRi V_Sji

As any reader of this thread can clearly see, it's plain irritating effort   The time is definitely not well-spent  

However, any person longing for a facts-based approach will have to suffer such times (especially w.r.t. to ill-documented TFM history).

I'll be happy if this thread at least opens the eyes of some who blindly believe the numbers announced by VJ's on reality shows in terms of K's of number of songs
(Of all the people, one program was claiming 6000 songs for the pAvam Swarnalatha. Ridiculous numbers blabbered about, without thinking even for a second!)

Well, recently people have been celebrating 50 years of SPB in the industry - no small achievement! 

He is still popular and can currently sing better than how he sang for most songs in late 60's and early 70's IMO   That the TFM industry is not using him that much is its loss.

OTOH, the reality check - with proper numbers / facts - should also inform people that of these 50 years, he was most prolific in the TFM context for probably 20 years only. As we've seen in this thread, he did an average of only 20 songs per year in the first decade. It could be similar (20 p.a. or so) in the last two decades. His majority output in TFM should have been between 1977 & 1996 - which coincides with the max. prolific period of IR as well (regardless of whether IR used SPB to the max or not).

Does it not say something about the connection between the two?

ToI writing something that I've been telling for a while :
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/jazzy-comic-romantic-spbs-voice-scaled-heights/articleshow/56605674.cms

The emergence of Ilaiyaraja in the late seventies and eighties as the reigning composer in the south put SPB right on top of the world. Apart from being the most popular and effervescent voice of the time, he was after all a long-time chum who had said cheers with Ilaiyaraja during the latter's years of struggle! The Rajinikanth-Kamal Haasan era of Tamil cinema is studded with SPB gems honed by Ilaiyaraja to showcase the former's versatile singing which spans the spectrum from the jazzy and comic to the lingeringly romantic. Many a musical featuring actor Mohan clearly rode on the magic of SPB's art (Who can forget 'Nilaave Vaa' in Maniratnam's Mouna Ragam!).

  WOW app_engine!  Close to a historian's job!! 

Could see how laborious it should have been to document this.  Treasure chest. I was surprised that SPB has sung < 200 songs before IR's debut. 

BTW, even as I stumbled upon this forum, I could recognize some ids in the "latest post" and "who started the topic/post" columns, as members of the TFM pages which I used to enjoy reading during the early 2000's. I was not an avid follower of TFM forum but visited it pretty frequently, especially whenever I wanted to look up some info.  So, many of you are veterans here!  I'm happy that I'm a newbie.

In a recent twitter conversation, one person was quite upset with me - telling me that I showed "disrespect" to SPB when I exposed the Jaya TV claim of his 40 K recordings / guinness records as unsubstantiated  (actually, LIES).

Look what they say in the description of this youtube (this is what a lot of the TN public will read and believe):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvvIQyAwwLU&t=3045s

Shripathi Panditaradhyula Balasubrahmanyam (born 4 June 1946) mostly referred to as S.P.B. or Balu is an Indian playback singer, music director, actor, dubbing artist and film producer who works predominantly in Kannada, Tamil, Malayalam, Hindi and Telugu cinema. He has recorded over 40,000 songs in 16 Indian languages. He has garnered six National Film Awards for Best Male Playback Singer for his works in four different languages; Kannada, Tamil, Telugu and Hindi; twenty-five Andhra Pradesh state Nandi Awards for his works towards Telugu cinema, numerous other state awards from Tamil Nadu and Karnataka.In addition, he garnered the Bollywood Filmfare Award, and six Filmfare Awards South.

He is honoured with the Guinness World Record for recording the most film scores. In 2012, he received the state Nandamuri Taraka Rama Rao National Award for his contributions to Indian cinema.in 2016, he was honoured with the Indian Film Personality of the Year consisting of a Silver Peacock Medal. He is a recipient of civilian awards such as Padmashri (2001) and Padma Bhushan (2011) from the Government of India.

Actually both these above claims are oft-repeated on TV shows, youtubes, web blogs and everywhere. It is possible most people believe SPB's wiki page and source this information from there :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._P._Balasubrahmanyam

Wiki gives some newspaper stories as references to these two claims (and in the referenced news reports only cine industry people made these claims on stages ; nothing of a true reference).

Then I gave the ACTUAL GUINNESS link stating P.Suseela has the max recordings (that could be authenticated) and told people that claiming otherwise is actually a DISRESPECT to Suseelamma,

Now, let me explain that these claims are ALSO DISRESPECT to SPB himself! (And me pointing out is no way a mark of disrespect that way).

1. First of all, when there's nothing in Guinness, claiming one - thinking that it will somehow add fame to SPB - is indirectly making him a fraudster! (Actually SPB should openly declare everywhere this fact, make people correct his wiki and also reject such claims on TV / stage etc.) Alternately, if there's really a guinness entry, they should give the picture from the record book or a link to their official website! That will be the right thing to do! Failing to do that (and instead getting angry at a whistle blower like me) is not going to bring honor to any legend or his worshipers!

2.  Secondly, if SPB encourages people spreading this nonsense that he sang 40 K songs, it's going to picture him only in a very poor light.

How?

For one, even if anyone stands upside down, they're not going to produce even half of those numbers (recordings / links / mp3s / youtubes whatever - even plain lists). So, the natural question will be - where are the rest? Which are the others?

It will lead to the conclusion that "VIRTUALLY 75% OF WHAT HE SANG WERE UNKNOWN"! (Which may not be true but if one subscribes to this 40K theory, then that will be the logical conclusion, correct?)

Is that very respectful to such a successful singer? It pains for a true-fan for him to get that kind of a reputation

From my detailed analysis of his 1000+ songs with Ilayaraja, he had >50% of the songs SUPER HITS ! Even the remaining ones were reasonably well-known among music-savvy people, with very few rare or less-known songs! One who should be celebrated for a HUGE % of SUCCESS RATE is being severely undermined by such 40K kind of fraudulent claims, making him a "majoirty-of-songs-becoming-piglets" kind of a person  

Does a true fan want him to get that reputation? I don't!

Think fellows, think!

Only truth and facts can bring respect and honor, even to legends! Promoting otherwise is not going to help!

Wake up people!