Pre-IR 70's : TFM lyrics too were mediocre

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Pre-IR 70's : TFM lyrics too were mediocre

Post  app_engine on Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:00 pm

By now, it's a widely known thing that before the arrival of IR in 1976, nothing extraordinary was happening in TFM on the musical front (no novel forms, dismal orchestration standards, limited experiments, lot of "following-north-indies" etc).

Of course, the films themselves were of lower standards (compared to TF of 50's - 60's which many consider far superior) with a lot of asattu themes, north-imports, hero-worship-kuppais, paridhAba production values etc for the most part of early 70's.

This thread will focus on the deficiencies of TFM lyrical front during the same dark period for TFM.

No, my aim is not to simply thAr adichchufy and not recognize any good things that happened during that time period. We had of course Kaviyarasar still in occasional form (though much less inspired than his superb innings during 60's) and some sparks from Vaali here and there.

The purpose is to specifically highlight where TFM lacked big time on the lyrical front and how the arrival of Pannaippuram brothers changed all that!

Yes, unlike the idiotic assessments of some வவ்வால், கரிச்சான், அமுத்தான் kind of IR-haters who always try to paint IR as the sole destroyer of lyrical standards of TFM (or those of some other kuppai fellows who keep trying to establish that "oorvashi, take it easy oorvashi" kinds later "re-established" the standards and "revived" the TFM lyrical scene that IR killed Laughing ), the fact of that matter is ARRIVAL OF IR in the TFM scene not only brought freshness to music / orch but there was a by-product of freshness in the lyrical scene too!

Mainly for that reason, , I had been mostly posting about the 70's songs in the 500/1000 songs with great lyrics thread of the IR section! I will continue to add some more in the coming days as well!

In addition, among the 100 songs I picked for the Gangai Amaran lyrics appreciation thread in the IR section, a good percentage came from 70's or early 80's. 

All pearls / gems as opposed to people generally dismissing that lyricist as some dappAnguththu fellow. 

That being said, I don't want to simply throw some statements that cannot be substantiated. Let me analytically point out the serious deficiencies of the 70's lyrics - taking one aspect at a time in this thread.

I'm going to start with தமிழக நாட்டுபுறப்பாடல் வளம் in TFM (TN Folk) as the first topic and how dismal it was in early 70's.


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Re: Pre-IR 70's : TFM lyrics too were mediocre

Post  Drunkenmunk on Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:29 pm

This promises to be an interesting thread and with you running it, I'm sure it'd be objective too, notwithstanding all our biases toward Raaja. I was curious and had a doubt about one thing and you answered it here. The period you'd be covering. You say early to mid 70s. That is interesting.

That said, I'd like to state my opinion on the 60s lyrical standards of Tamil film music as being unarguably the greatest in Tamil film history. Your opinion that the standards lowered in the 70s is interesting. I'd like it to be borne by factual analysis. Because while it is eminently believable that the lesser songs (and boy there were a LOT of them) would have had lesser lyrics, Sivaji was still in fine form in the early 70s with Vietnam Veedu, Raman Ethanai Ramanadi, Gauravam, etc. and KB from Arangetram till the arrival of Raaja (the cut off point for this thread) had some interesting films and all these films which had Kaviarasar lyrics were extremely good. Now these are songs that are well known and appreciated. Lesser songs will give us an objective idea. While Raaja's arrival elevated lyrical quality compared to the early 70s seems an interesting moot point worth analysing (which you will undertake here), I'd still state that 60s Kannadasan/Vaali with MSV/TKR/KVM > late 70s/early 80s Kannadasan/Vaali/Gangai Amaran/VM/Panchu/Pulamaipithan, etc. with Raaja. Obviously this is no insult to the lyrics of Raaja's songs. As we see, there are several lovely gems and only douchebag idiots or nutbags with agenda would disagree, but it bears stating that the 60s lyrical quality stands unmatched across eras, including the 90s and 00s and 10s. And I'd eminently agree Raaja time lyrical quality can easily match even the best of VM/Vaali for ARR/post ARR quality (youth lyricists) and beat them more than often.

And I'd also like a discussion on a JeMo claim that if one were to criticize Raaja at all, it has to be his at times disdainful approach to lyrics.

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Re: Pre-IR 70's : TFM lyrics too were mediocre

Post  app_engine on Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:58 pm

DM,

Yes, I'm with you on the superiority of pre-70's TFM lyrics Smile

I'll be focusing on only the immediate pre-IR period (as my focus is mostly on defending IR and providing some antidote to the poison often thrown away by some venomous loudmouths...and such had been generally supported by the later-day "kavippErarasu-fan-gumbal" propaganda as well).

That said, I don't disagree to the JeMo complaint as well Smile  

That is definitely some topic to be analyzed in the IR forum objectively. 

For now, let me list down the movies that came out from 1970-1975, those 6 long years Smile 

Yearwise listing by inbaminge seems to be a decent resource for this purpose Smile

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Re: Pre-IR 70's : TFM lyrics too were mediocre

Post  app_engine on Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:59 pm

47 films are listed for 1970 :

Anathai Ananthan - cataloged
CID Shankar  -  cataloged
Dharisanam  -  cataloged
En Annan -  cataloged
Engal Thangam - cataloged
Enga Mama - cataloged
Engirundho Vandhal - cataloged
Ethirkalam - cataloged
Ethiroli - cataloged
Jeevanaadi - cataloged
Kaalam Vellum - cataloged
Kaavalan
Kaaviyath Thalaivi
Kalyana Oorvalam
Kanmalar
Kannan Varuvaan
Kasthoori Thilakam
Kathal Jothi
Lakshmi Gadaksham
Maanavan
Malathi
Mattukkara Velan
Nadu Iravil
Namma Kuzhandhiagal
Namma Veettu Theivam
Navagraham
Nilave Nee Satchi
Noorandu Kalam Vazhga
Paadhugaappu
Paththaam Pasali
Penn Deivam
Raman Ethanai Ramanadi
Sangamam
Snegithi
Sorgam
Thabalkaran Thangai
Thalaivan
Thedi Vantha Mappillai
Thirudatha Thirudan
Thirumalai Thenkumari
Vairakkiam 1970
Veera Garjanai
Veettukku Veedu Vaasappadi
Vetri Thirumagan
Vietnam Veedu
Vilaiyaattu Pillai
Yen


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Re: Pre-IR 70's : TFM lyrics too were mediocre

Post  app_engine on Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:00 pm

52 movies for 1971 :

Aathi Parasakthi
Anbukku oru Annan
Annai Velankanni
Arunodhayam
Arutperum Jothi
Avalukendru Oru Manam
Babu
Deivam Pesuma
Gun Fight Kaanchana
Irulum Oliyum
Iru Thuruvam
Justice Vishwanath
Kannan Karunai
Kann Kaatchi
Kettikaran
Kulama Gunama
Kumarikkottam
Makkal Thilagam
Meendum Vaazven
Mohammed Bin Tuklaq
Moondru Deivangal
Naangu Suvargal
Neerum Neruppum
Neethi Devan
Noothukku Nooru
Oru Thaai Makkal
Poisollathe
Praptham
Pudhiya Vazhkai
Punnagai
Rangarattinam
Rickshakaran
Sabatham
Savale Samali
Soothattam
Sri Krishna Leela
Sudarum Sooravaliyum
Sumathi En Sundari
Suriyan Chandran
Thai Naadu
Thanga Gopuram
Thangaikkaaga
Then Kinnam
Thenum Palum
Therottam
Thirumagal
Thulli Odum Pulliman
Uththaravindri Ulle Vaa
Uyir
Veettukku Oru Pillai
Veguli Penn
Yaanai Valartha Vanambaadi

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Re: Pre-IR 70's : TFM lyrics too were mediocre

Post  app_engine on Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:01 pm

56 movies for 1972:

Agathiyar
Annai Abhirami
Annamitta Kai
Appa Tata
Asirvaatham
Aval
Avasara Kalyanam
Deiva Sangalpam
Delhi To Madras
Dharmam Enge
Ellai Kodu 1972
Enna Mudalali Sowkiyama
Ganga
Gnana Oli
Hello Partner
Ithaya Veenai
Itho Enthan Theivam
Jakkamma
Kadhalika Vaanga
Kanimuthu Paappa
Kannamma
Kanna Nalama
Karunthel Kannayiram
Kasethan Kadavulada
Kurathi Magan
Mappillai Azhaippu
Mr Sampath
Naan Yean Piranthen
Nalla Neram
Nawab Narkali
Needhi
Paattondru Ketten
Pathilukku Pathil
Pattikkada Pattanama
Pillaiyo Pillai
Ponmagal Vandhal
Puguntha Veedu
Ragasiya Pen
Raja
Raman Thediya Seethai
Rani Yaar Kuzhandhai
Sakthi Leelai
Sange Muzhangu
Savalukku Saval
Thaikku Oru Pillai
Thanga Durai
Thavapputhalvan
Theivam
Thikkuth Theriyaatha Kaattil
Thiruneelakantar
Unakkum Enakkum
Varaverppu
Vasantha Maligai
Vazhaiyadi Vazhai
Velli Vizha
Yaar Jambulingam

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Re: Pre-IR 70's : TFM lyrics too were mediocre

Post  app_engine on Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:02 pm

53 movies in 1973 :

Alaigal
Amman Arul
Anbu Sagotharargal
Arangetram
Baghdad Perazhagi
Bharatha Vilas
Engal Thaai
Engal Thanga Raja
Ganga Gowri 1973
Gauravam
Iraivan Irukkindraan
Jesus
Kaaraikal Ammaiyar
Kasi Yaathirai
Kattila Thottila
Komaatha En Kulamaatha
Malligai Poo
Manipayal
Manitharil Maanikkam
Manjal Kungumam
Marupiravi
Nalla Mudivu
Nathayil Muthu
Nee Ullavarai
Nyayam Ketkirom
Pasa Deepam
Pattikaattu Ponnaiya
Pennai Nambungal
Petha Manam Pithu
Ponnoonjal
Ponnukku Thanga Manasu
Ponvandu
Pookkari
Prarthanai
Radha
Rajapart Rangudhurai
Raja Raja Cholan
School Master
Shanmugapriya
Sollathan Ninaikiren
Sondham
Suriya Gaanthi
Thalai Prasavam
Thedi Vandha Lakshmi
Thirumalai Theivam
Ulagam Sutrum Valiban
Vakkuruthi
Valli Devanai
Vandhale Magarasi
Vayadi
Veettukku Vandha Marumagal
Veettu Maappillai
Vijaya

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Re: Pre-IR 70's : TFM lyrics too were mediocre

Post  app_engine on Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:14 pm

60 from 1974 :
Akkarai Pachai
Anbaith Thedi
Anbuth Thangai
Appa Amma
Athaiya Maamiya
Aval Oru Thodar Kathai
Avalukku Nihar Avale
Deeraga Sumangali
Devi Sri Karumariamman
Doctoramma
Engal Kula Deivam
Engamma Sabatham
En Magan
Idhayam Pesugirathu
Kadavul Mama
Kai Niraya Kaasu
Kaliyuga Kannan
Kalyanamam Kalyanam
Kanmani Raja
Kumasthavin Magal
Magalukkaga
Malai Naattu Mangai
Manikka Thottil
Murugan Kattiya Vazhi
Naan Avanillai
Netru Indru Naalai
Onne Onnu Kanne Kannu
Ore Satchi
Paatha Poojai
Panathukkaga
Pandhattam
Paruvakalam
Paththu Maatha Bantham
Penn Ondru Kandean
Pillai Selvam
Prayachittham
Puthiya Manithan
Raja Nagam
Rosakkari
Samarppanam
Samayalkaran
Sirithu Vaazha Vendum
Sisubalan
Sivagamien Selvan
Sorgathil Thirumanam
Swathi Nakshatram
Thaagam
Thaai
Thaai Paasam
Thai Piranthal
Thanga Padhakkam
Thanga Valaiyal
Thikketra Parvathi
Thirudi
Tiger Thaaththaachchaari
Ungal Viruppam
Unnaithan Thambi
Urimaikkural
Vaani Raani
Vellikizhamai Viradham

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Re: Pre-IR 70's : TFM lyrics too were mediocre

Post  app_engine on Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:16 pm

59 from 1975 :

Aan Pillai Singam
Aayiraththil Oruththi
Aboorva Ragangal
Amutha
Anaya Vilakku
Anbe Aaruyire 1975
Anbu Roja
Andharangam
Avalukku Ayiram Kangal
Avalum Penn Thaane
Avandhan Manidhan
Cinema Paithiyam
Dr. Siva
Eduppar Kaipillai
Ellorum Nallavare
Enakkoru Magan Pirappan
Engalukkum Kadhal Varum
Enga Pattan Sothu
Ezhaikkum Kaalam Varum
Hotel Sorgam
Idhayakkani
Ippadiyum Oru Penn
Kaarotti Kannan
Kasthuri Vijayam
Kathavai Thattiya Mogini Pei
Maalai Sooda Vaa
Manithanum Deivamagalam
Manjal Mugame Varuga
Mannavan Vanthanadi
Mayangugiral Oru Maathu
Melnaattu Marumagal
Naalai Namathe
Nambikkai Natchathiram
Ninaithadhai Mudippavan
Oru Kudumbaththin Kadhai
Pallandu Vazhga
Panam Paththum Seiyum
Pattam Poochi
Pattikkattu Raja
Pattum Bharathamum
Pinju Manam
Priya Vidai
Puthu Vellam
Sonthangal Vazhga
Swami Ayyappan
Thai Veetu Seethanam
Thangathile Vairan
Thennamkeetru
Then Sinduthey Vaanam
Thirudanukku Thirudan
Thiruvarul
Thottathellaam Ponnaakum
Unga Veettu Kalyanam
Uravukku Kai Koduppom
Uravu Solla Oruvan
Vaazhndhu Kaattukiren
Vaira Nenjam
Yarukkum Vetkamillai
Yezhaikkum Kaalam Varum

These are the movies / albums in the scope of the whole discussion. 

The reason I'm saving these here is because this site is down every now and then - and it should not be a struggle to keep locating these when needed.

The site also hosts many songs from these movies (though not 100%, it is a very valuable source). So, we'll be freely making references there.

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Re: Pre-IR 70's : TFM lyrics too were mediocre

Post  app_engine on Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:26 pm

So, there are about 327 movies (may be + or - a few as this may not be the final list).

Considering an average of 4 songs, it should be around 1300 songs. Not an easy task to make a blanket statement about lyrical quality / mediocrity etc.

However, my statement was based on the last few months of scanning a number of these songs in the context of documenting the SPB-pre-IR songs in another thread in this same forum.

In addition, also did indulge in listening to a few of these albums / songs when searching for KVM songs.

As mentioned in the outset, the good ones are few and far between!

To me, the sole bright spot appears to be some semi-classicals / purANA or similar traditional movies (powered by KVM or Kunnakkudi & their association with APN and a few by mellisai mannar here and there). 

In any case, the folk area is a very big minus (and a big plus post-IR) and that's why I'm starting there Smile

For that matter, even a good part of 60's wasn't great with nAttAr pAttu.  I won't hesitate to say that this area in particular was a "weak-spot" for even kaviyarasar & Vaali who were basically from sophi background. (Vaali did some good ones later on with IR, of course).

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Re: Pre-IR 70's : TFM lyrics too were mediocre

Post  app_engine on Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:57 pm

As someone with most of my boyhood memories from 70's, I can vouch that even the so called "towns" those days were not much sophisticated in TN. 

They were just bigger size villages with some stores in one main street and some transportation converging there. (This of course excludes the bigger towns such as Madurai / Trichy / Nellai / Kovai etc). I'm talking about Dindigul / Virudhunagar kind of places. (Well, most may not know that Virudhunagar was originally called "Virudhu patti"  Laughing  Each time me and my cousin walked past one milestone with that name engraved, we used to joke that this place is even now only a patti and why do they call it a nagar).

Apart from a street or two that fancied a series of shops calling "main road" or "big bazaar" and a small bus stand, these places could hardly be called anything sophi, as the immediate surroundings were full of village like area, even fields sometimes. In addition, the people looked like peasants / spoke village lingo, most "suburbs" had names such as mEttuppatti, allam patti, muthurAman patti etc and were no different from my little hamlet which was many kilometers away from the "town".

Well, why am I stressing this information? Just to reiterate that fact that until that time period, practically > 80% of TN population had a EVERYDAY life of a villager - nAttuppuRaththAn - only, regardless of where they were living.

Yet, > 90% of the movies or movie songs NEVER had ANY focus on nAttuppuRaththu songs! So much away from the everyday reality of lives of people!

IR had been very charitable when he once remarked that he didn't do anything new with nAttAr pAttu for TFM (he even quoted some old songs, possibly mAttukkAra vElA On mAttakkonjam pAtthukkadA or maNappARai mAdu katti). However, even those sporadic samples were possibly from 50's or early 60's when people like Maruthakasi / Pattukkottai wrote songs. 

That too weren't many, if one starts counting...

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Re: Pre-IR 70's : TFM lyrics too were mediocre

Post  app_engine on Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:03 am

Right now I'm scanning thru the 1970 albums and yet to find even a name-sake folk number (let alone a worthy one).

நல்ல பரிசோதனை...

So far, crossed 50 songs from 10 movies, all by Kannadasan / Vaali (majority MSV MD,  3 by KVM, one movie each by Veda, soolamangalam Rajalakshmi, V Dhankshinamoorthy).

Not one folk song - not yet found!

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Re: Pre-IR 70's : TFM lyrics too were mediocre

Post  app_engine on Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:03 pm

Other things keeping me busy these days and my scanning of these songs has slowed down (and it had been anyways an exercise of very less worth so for)...

Yet to find any folk song - let alone an authentic TN one from 1970...

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