Neethane Enthan Pon Vasantham.

nanRi Senthil sir, for the appreciation and the detailed explanation!

As a disclaimer - the categorizations above (and those to follow) are only based on one or two points and cannot describe any single music lover (as an individual) in toto

For that matter, I'm always against any stereo-typing, let alone in music appreciation.

However, as in statistics / marketing strategies etc, it's always possible to identify some core categories based on one point / two points kind of differentiators and try to form buckets...Plus, it helps in such "identity" based discussions

Moving on, like we had 3 categories among people who have IR as their #1 choice in TFM (i.e. even at present), let's also have 3 more categories of people who don't care that much for IR (or otherwise very clear about IR being NOT necessarily their primary TFM reference).

Category #4 - definite anti-IR group. These could be HCVMFs or old TFMF's who got irritated by the arrival of IR, never warmed up to him (despite liking a song here and there) and were happy to embrace ARR or otherwise HCFs of ARR / post-ARR and choose every opportunity to mock IR. (tablA fellow, dated, oldie, oosippOna sORu etc.)

Obviously, we can't get a confession from suchlike ones, as like: 'yes sir, we agree, NEPV is really a hit'

Even when cornered with statistics, such ones may come back with noLLais such as 'movie was flop' 'VTV was a BB, much better' 'lyrics were not up to the mark' 'may be bright spot for a long-gone musician but not hit as per industry standards' etc.

So, how to conclude that such fellows have accepted "unknowingly" that NEPV is a hit? Simple, only by taking clues - sometimes from their kapchip silence or their negative reactions and may be the insecurity that this album caused.

For example, one lady who was challenging 'jAzz ellAm padikkARAm, enna kizhikkappORar pAkkalAm' went kapchip with the arrival of the album as a tsunami Came out of water only after the movie not doing well in BO (or when KH gave a life-boat for such VMFs in some viswaroopa songs or after another 'kadal' wave pushed them to the shore). Another tried to play down as well, despite claiming a long-term TFM fan, keeping totally mum about NEPV while silently acknowledging elsewhere quoting just the lyrics 'peNgaL enRAl' Either way, the songs silenced some anti-IR gumbal.

For others, it was vayiththerichchal outright - the best example being singer Srinivas who initially did some bla-bla in FB, hurriedly took some comments back, again made a smart-alec comment when pre-regular version of kadal song showed up on MTV. Signs of insecurity could also be seen in many places in the web (blogs / tweeter / hub etc) by such anti-IR people bad mouthing NEPV as and when possible, especially AFTER the release of the movie that didn't do that well.

The funniest example of such can be this hub thread ...

Very clearly, the aim of the following comment was to malign / hide / disrespect a phenomenal album called NEPV that happened in the year 2012:

2012 will not be remembered as a fantastic year for songs.

, as if the last few years had been greater for TFM fans! While the non-response to such nonsense is obviously due to the mass-exodus of HCIRFs, it's interesting to see some kind of "me-too-appreciate-IR" kind of reactions in such a thread, proving that known anti-IR elements too could not ignore NEPV songs.

Moreover, I can wildly guess some kind of knee-jerk reaction(s) from the main support-source of such anti-IR people, the mega combo of MR-ARR, though I cannot prove it. (Please don't misunderstand I call MR-ARR as anti-IR, I simply say anti-IR people always find them as their 'saraNAlayam' )

I think some of the promos related to kadal and the apparent increase of focus by this combo at the TF field / Chennai (as opposed to Mumbai - outside world) is also due to the sudden "threat" called IR, by his unexpected handshake with Gautam and a swashbuckling innings called NEPV!

Category # 5 is those who clearly have some other composer as their top reference for TFM / IFM -majority ARR, some MSV or older ones - but appreciate good music from everyone else, especially IR, without any agenda against him.

In other words, the 2040's (SS's) of the world I believe this group had been in vogue even during IR's juggernaught 80's but has gotten considerably large in numbers from the time of ARR's arrival. Their musical sensibilities and tastes may not allow them to accept all kind of music that comes out of IR, which could be the main reason why they chose another composer as their #1. Still their filters allow a number of IR gems to find acceptance, make it to their playlists (sometimes the reason being the singer, say Shreya or HH or Karthik, being their hot-fav in music).

I don't mean the oldie-goldies of IR here but the newer arrivals, such as an 'onna vida' or 'iLangAththu veesuthE' or 'poongARRE konjam uNmai solla varuvAyA'. I mean such ones have a strong bias for another MD but no negativity towards IR.

It's not difficult to guess how such ones received NEPV Though we don't frequent the NEPV threads in the TF section and IR section in the hub, there are any number of such references that could be found there...also, I've personally come across some primarily-ARRFs & primarily-HJFs liking / repeatedly playing some NEPV songs.

I think most people who read this (relatively cold) post will agree with me

Category #6 - All the people who need TFM in their lives but seriously do not enlist anyone as their favourite composer. At the minimum, they don't consistently have ONE composer as their all-time fav. They may like IR one day, ARR another day, HJ is hot today etc.

Obviously, I'm not telling that this is the 'general public' group. That'll be an insult to TFM. There are some 'general public' who may not care much for TFM in general (cinemAppAttellAm yAru kEppA nAnellAm classical only, cinemAvE asingam nAn bhakthippAttu mattum thAn kEppEn, nAngeLLAm indhi mattum dhAn, western music only, music edhukku waste mind your business etc). They're not part of this discussion (or any discussion w.r.t. "hit" considerations).

I know for a fact that such ones were a very small minority in TN during 80's, if not non-existent. These could have gone up recently (cinemAvukkellAm pAttE koodAdhu, see englees films etc) but I cannot guess their %. In any case, IMHO, let's not consider them for ANY discussions in the IR forum

Coming back to our "genuinely", "over-a-lifetime" neutral fans of TFM, who are possibly the majority today, in a million-fragmented market -unlike 80's / 90's dominated by a single MD...

Have they warmed up to NEPV songs? Definitely yes, IMHO. Like I said before, I cannot talk for TN-ers with the kind of conviction I had during the last millennium - because of geographical location issues! Still, following are some samples from my close / far associates on NEPV:

1. When my 6 year old came back from India, I could see NEPV album in the iPod. I was pleasantly surprised. Asked her where did she get that from? She said her cousin copied it for her from his playlist That cousin is an engg college student in Trichy and one whom I know very clearly to be MD-agnostic! (Well, I've posted earlier about the same 6 year old "singing" the prelude of mudhal muRai & insisting on me to rewind the disk to play saRRu munbu - her fav and one that she missed due to dozing off during a drive ; those are some more minor evidences).

2. mythila (thumburu)'s post a few pages back about the PSG tech light music program where the crowd gave an overwhelming response to 'mudhal muRai'... I guess the crowd should have included a number of general TFM-fans who are MD-agnostic (at the minimum, may not be having IR as their #1).

3. P_R's (and similar real neutrals') posts on the web.

For V_Sji's sake (who would not have looked at his recent post and latest post ), let me reproduce it here :

என்ன சொல்லி
என்ன பெண்ணே
நெஞ்சம் ஒரு
காத்தாடி

தத்தி தத்தி
உன்னிடத்தில்
தாவுதடி
கூத்தாடி

மனத்தடைகளைத் தகர்த்தெரிந்த அசாதாரண சாதனை பாடற்தொகுப்பு

and

pAdal thoguppu = album

Oh NEPV is doubtlessly one of the best albums I have heard in a very long time.
Naan uchchakattamA Nandalala range-ku edhirpArththEn - with one great song a la Oorndhu oorndhu and a couple of good ones and that's about it. Boy, was I wrong! I had to go all the way to VirumAndi, Kandukondein etc to remember a Tamil album that made me this rapturous.

This is next only to TiS in terms of the number of listens in my car. The last film album I was this taken by was Dev D.

There is SO much happening in each of the songs- the dramatic bursts, the 'tug at hearstrings', the sheer grandness in scope etc. These just 'hit the spot' so frequently in so many songs in one album! And there is a sense of rarity and completeness that you feel at the end of a 'round'.

I never ever believed I could listen to Yuvan's crooning in my life. I have fought with people here and elsewhere about him. It is crazy how likable he is - not just tolerable- for instance, in the places around 'innum innum ella tholai dhoorathil etc.' The entry of trumpets in the second half of pudikkala maamu is pachydermal stomping. The second interlude in the sAindhu sAindhu, as a piece of music - ranks among his, and thus the, very best of all time.

One helluvan album.

4. A 12 year old, our niece, who may not even know the name 'Ilayaraja', has switched from 'nANikkONi' as the ringback tone to 'sAyndhu sAyndhu' on her cellphone. I was so pleasantly surprised hearing the song. (I had to call this phone frequently during Oct, to talk to other family members who visited there).

5. My youngest sis (and so without any IR-bias, actually mild ARR-HJ-bias) who listens to all kinds of TFM kept talking about NEPV music and Jaya TV program for almost an hour during a recent visit And, it continues to get played in her vehicle frequently!

These are the kind of responses I look for, to consider a song / album having strong impression on a variety of people who are not too much into following an artist on a day-to-day basis like us here

I was hoping to cover all the TFM fans with the above 6 categories of people...however, for exceptional connoisseurs like plum, I need to add a special "exceptions" post later...

nanRi, V_Sji!

Eagerly expecting your posts on the rest of the songs

BTW, P_R hasn't stopped with posting comments on the 'last song' thread there but went to the IR forum and is digging our old posts on NEPV and posting replies to many of them (மண்டபத்துல தனியா உக்காந்து புலம்புற தருமி மாதிரி... look at this page ...)

He has quoted a portion of your 'sAyndhu sAyndhu' post & says :

Lovely post

Reached it through Suresh's blogsposts about the NEPV songs.

(For the Saroj Narayanswamy comment ennaiya muRaichchirukkAr )

Thanks again App! Definitely it feels sad now having left P_R alone and vice versa. If there would have been some amount of dignity for IR, we would have stayed back. I even feel this as a call from P_R to us.

@app - very good analysis of the film music fan base from a emotional/bias point of view (Are you a Phd ?). You have good future in product management/marketing/research if you ever get sick of app server development :-)
Here is my view of things - of course fans react emotionally. But many a times there is logic behind their music bias (IMHO), which sometimes they themselves many not realize. You have to introspect/reflect on yourself why you like a particular song. Speaking for myself, I like songs with elaborate orchestration. For eg. aadhi ushas vs kunnathE, saRRu munbu vs kARRai etc. The smart thing about NEPV mix of songs is - they (IR+GVM) catered to the main melody fans, the new genre/cool fans and the niche melody+orchestration fans like me.
My guess is even hardcore fans of other MDs when introduced to the orchestral aspects of IR will become IR fans. But they should be a bit open-minded and be ready to explore. Generally, indian people by nature warm to the vocals/main tune vs the WCM style orchestrated songs of IR where the vocals have to share the limelight with other instruments. MDs like ARR inspite of the lush background are mainly focused on the monophonic main tune where they get the most of their loyal fan base.
In a nutshell, it is all not bias but probably a preference of music styles. Just my 2 cents.
(BTW, it is always a pleasure to read your posts. It is kind of light, fun, entertaining and still very informative/educative. Not sure, how you manage that)

nanRi kiru, for your kind comments!

(Are you a Phd ?).

illeenga...(married) bachelor

Not sure, how you manage that

To a great extent, tfmpage training (learning from the likes of plum)

app_engine wrote:..
To a great extent, tfmpage training (learning from the likes of plum)

After seeing your college year/time frame, wanted to address you as app annE. It seems to read as appanE :-) Respect and admiration comes your way easily :-)

oru soaru padham - aanal indha soaru sakkarai pongal soaru..
saaindhu saaindhu - 2nd charanam one line..
"Kai veesi kaatril
nee paesum azhagil
meyyaagum poiyyummmmm"
why is this charanam by NSK ramya special compared to the first charanam which is
"En thaayai pole
oru pennai thaedi
unaik kanndu kondaeinnn"

because of the small detour she does with the word "Azhagil" - it is not sung in the same manner as "Thaedi" - it is "Azha Gill"
Gill spelt more like KPS Gill - the stress gives it a mini bedham - without becoming an abaswaram - IT adds that tiny little feather
weight but delivers the right shift in impact - delightful..

Subsequent to my analysis, a blog post from a (possible) cat 5 fellow:

http://maruthamuraan.blogspot.com/2013/01/blog-post_8.html

'நீதானே என் பொன் வசந்தம்' என்று ராஜாவின் ரசிகன் தன்னுடைய ஆசையை பூர்த்தி செய்ய எடுத்த படத்திலும் ராஜாவின் காலம் முடிந்துவிட்டது என்று சொல்ல மனது எத்தணிக்கிற தருணத்தில் 'அன்று பார்த்தது அந்தப்பார்வை வேறடி இந்தப்பார்வை வேறடி' என்று ராஜா பாடிவிட்ட பின்னர் வரும் பெண்குரலில் 'ராஜாவின் காதல் இசையின் அற்புதம்' வெளிப்பட்டிருக்கும்.

ரஹ்மான் காலத்தில் இசையை உள்வாங்கி, ரஹ்மான் காலத்திலேயே பதின்பங்களை கடந்து, ரஹ்மான் சர்வதேச ரசிகர்களுக்காக 'கடல்' இசையை அமைக்கிற வரைக்கும் ரஹ்மானாலேயே கவரப்பட்ட என்னுள்/ என்னைப் போன்றோருள் ராஜாவுக்கான ராஜகோபுரம் பெரிதாக உண்டு. அதை மறைத்துக் கொள்வதில் என்ன இருக்கிறது. உண்மையான கலைஞனை- ரசித்த கணத்தை கொண்டாடுவதில் என்ன சங்கடம் இருக்கப்போகிறது. எல்லாமுமே ஒரு கொண்டாட்டம் தானே. அதுவே, சில கணங்களில் நிம்மதியும் கூட.

ok, one last post on the "NEPV hit among people of various categories"

First, repeat of the disclaimer - I dislike stereotyping.

Second, repeat that the earlier categorizations are just one / two aspect based. That way, such may not do justice to the names / persons with whom I've taken liberty. So, a big N O M!

Third, quick recap of categories and examples cited, who all directly or indirectly confirmed the sensation created by NEPV :

Cat 1 - how can an IR song be bad, there has to be some azhagiyal - always positively judging based on musical knowledge (e.g. Sureshji / V_Sji / Jaiganesh)

Cat 2 - kaNNukkuLLE=maNNukkuLLE but NEPV is great... i.e. music-educated but only selectively appreciate IR songs group (e.g. aakarsh, BRangan and his commenters)

Cat 3 - rAgA swarA theriyAthu AnA rAsA eppavum rAsA - e.g. app_engine

Cat 4 - anti-IR "knoweldge, speed not sufficient to give soul-stirring meesic" - e.g. Singer Srinivas

Cat 5 : rAsA thOttaththu malligaiyum maNakkum AnA enga thOttam vERa - e.g. 2040

Cat 6: uLLabadiyE nAnga neutrals thAnungO - e.g. P_R, my nephew / niece etc

Now, even though I've thrown some names here in Gounder style (i.e. all these names are pAvam baligadAs), there are times when everyone listed could crossover to other categories (or) fit the description of more than one category etc. That kind of dynamism is due to human nature & soozhnilai changes ("mARRam mattumE nirandharam" / "there's just one reliable statement, that people are unreliable" etc).

However, even on a static state, there are individuals who cannot be boxed / bucketed into any categorizations...not even single point, double point ones. In database apps / interfaces etc, there are always provisions to handle "exceptions". i.e. do not fit into the major business rules.

Bonafide music fans.

Certified IR fans.

But not in cat 1 / 2 / 3 (and definitely not in the rest aka 456).

e.g plum, in his own admission.

While analysis of various flavours of music listening sensibilities of such exceptional groups (as to how they approach music, what they like, why they like etc) is beyond the capabilities of a poor a_e, for the point of discussion - whether NEPV reached them - I think such research may not be needed

That 'oru pAnaikku oru sORu' can be plum...(actually the problem is there's not oru pAnai but numerous pAnais but I'll conveniently forget that)...and let me close in conclusion that NEPV has reached such people as well

Once again I invite others (especially TN residents) to throw more light on this topic!

Even though it doesn't matter to our individual appreciation of NEPV or IR's status (like no need to prove anything anymore etc), it's always interesting to discuss if good music has really reached music lovers

app_engine, I got to say, ur making me very unproductive. Kidding... posts are sooo interesting, I'm gonna allocate time this weekend to read all your posts carefully.

You can also add a new category....When NEPV came out I played it to the girl I'm dating. She is North American, likes Bhangara, sitar music etc... She is also trained in western classical music piano, got pitch perfect ear and can sing decent. She didn't like NEPV first time I played it to her and specifically said I don't like this about "Saindhu Saindhu" song. So I dumped her. Just kidding. When she's around, I would just switch to something she likes if I was playing NEPV

Last month, she remarked, "No, No, I liked that one, play it" It was "Sattru Munbu" She also liked "Thaavi Thaavi Pogum". Now, she's got both the songs on her phone. Last week she said "Thaavi Thaavi" is soothing and she plays it to go to sleep. lol. She also said "May be I didn't like Saindhu Saindhu because of the way the guy was singing" Sorry Yuvan.

Now I realize she's got pitch perfect ear and saindhu saindhu experience kicked strong resistance against rest of the NEPV songs at the first listening. She also somehow picked up "Kaatril Enthan Geetham" at the first listening and has been humming it. To top all, she remarked, this guy (Raaja) makes similar kind of music. I think she is picking up on Raaja's signature!

Anyway, more comments on your posts soon.

V_S wrote:Thanks again App! Definitely it feels sad now having left P_R alone and vice versa. If there would have been some amount of dignity for IR, we would have stayed back. I even feel this as a call from P_R to us.

no, no steadyA irukkaNum. Even if he calls, unga other friend there enna solRARu recentAnnu pAppOmA:

@velantino - @ajaybaskar @Satissh12 ilaiyaraaja is an emperor without clothes. Proven in nepv. Better call the bluff.
@velantino - he is ugly his heart is ugly

yArunnu nAn solla vENAmnu nenaikkaREn. No sendiments about old place. sila nallavanaga irundhAlum, nefarious elements control paNdra edam.

app, create a new category: retired IR fan, brought back by fantastic posts by loyal IR fans like you, V_S, plum and others. That would be for me. Antha category illanA, intha forum kidayathu (credit to you guys I mean).

Plum, nAnum kavanichikitte varEn, ayAlu kuraichu, allA, valara overAyittu pOganu.

groucho

namma posting (please note, not "writing") ellAm 'nanRikkadan' sArE

And, I cannot pay back with a lifetime of posting even for just ONE INTERLUDE...

plum,

2 varushamA pazhaiya thuNiyO alladhu iraval (read "indhi") thuNiyO pottukkittu irukkava, pakkaththu veettukkAriyOda pudhu kAnjeevaram pattu pAththA appadiththEn react paNNuvA

(It looks like, after a two year wait too, they got may be a chinnALappatti or at best banAras, so more venom against IR / NEPV is naturally expected...pAvam).

Such tweets only add more credibility to my observation on cat #4 (aka anti-IR) gumbals...

BTW, such people should look at "Am Admi" posts @ hub that equate NEPV with KKKK

Now, about our old place, while I agree with you that we can do better without such negativity in life, we had been handling and can always handle such anti-IR-elements without much ado. (Actually, to their credit, they don't generally desecrate the IR Forum there; the mudslinging was mostly only in the TF section). But, the problem is with the authorities of the place - against whom we're powerless.

That way, V_Sji, nothing is changed there, to do any kind of re-thinking

Well, actually there's some change - the IR Forum looks deserted (which surprisingly no longer makes me sad). It nowadays looks like the other two TFM related forums which were already thin / struggling (with hardly any participation). That's all!

That comment was truly shocking! Truly heartless and ugly!. Eppadi sir ippadi yellaam ezhutha manasu varuthu. Avvalavu hate'A? Yaaru sir adhu (pm please). BTW, I never even thought/could even think of going back, but only said if things were better I would have stayed back.

app/V_S - PM-ed you and also some more spicy tweets from said gendilman . enjoy

plum wrote:app/V_S - PM-ed you and also some more spicy tweets from said gendilman . enjoy

naekkum parcel pannungo..

tea varalai...

A popular blogger (featured in Vikatan etc) posting NEPV lyrics by நா.முத்துக்குமார் :

sAindhu sAindhu:

http://srivalaipakkam.blogspot.com/2013/01/blog-post_4900.html

vAnam mellakkeezhiRangi:

http://srivalaipakkam.blogspot.com/2013/01/blog-post_1465.html

kARRaikkonjam niRkachchonnEn:

http://srivalaipakkam.blogspot.com/2013/01/blog-post_6317.html

muthal muRai pArththa gnAbagam:

http://srivalaipakkam.blogspot.com/2013/01/blog-post_9483.html

saRRu munbu pArththa mEgam mARippOga:

http://srivalaipakkam.blogspot.com/2013/01/blog-post_6403.html

jaiganesh wrote:
because of the small detour she does with the word "Azhagil" - it is not sung in the same manner as "Thaedi" - it is "Azha Gill"
Gill spelt more like KPS Gill - the stress gives it a mini bedham - without becoming an abaswaram - IT adds that tiny little feather
weight but delivers the right shift in impact - delightful..

Exxxactlyy!

skr wrote:
The harmonised portions are so intricately weaved and im getting stunned the more and more i listen to it..Now trying to play that last portion where there is a downward chromatic portion , that small portion just elevates it to another level ..

This song has given me the most happiness in 2012 and that is getting enhanced in 2013.
NEPV is truly a revolutionary soundtrack much like Guru in 1997.

YES!! and the chord punches are varied each time the anu pallavi is sung

app_engine wrote:ok, one last post on the "NEPV hit among people of various categories"

First, repeat of the disclaimer - I dislike stereotyping.

Second, repeat that the earlier categorizations are just one / two aspect based. That way, such may not do justice to the names / persons with whom I've taken liberty. So, a big N O M!

Third, quick recap of categories and examples cited, who all directly or indirectly confirmed the sensation created by NEPV :

Cat 1 - how can an IR song be bad, there has to be some azhagiyal - always positively judging based on musical knowledge (e.g. Sureshji / V_Sji / Jaiganesh)

Cat 2 - kaNNukkuLLE=maNNukkuLLE but NEPV is great... i.e. music-educated but only selectively appreciate IR songs group (e.g. aakarsh, BRangan and his commenters)

Cat 3 - rAgA swarA theriyAthu AnA rAsA eppavum rAsA - e.g. app_engine

Cat 4 - anti-IR "knoweldge, speed not sufficient to give soul-stirring meesic" - e.g. Singer Srinivas

Cat 5 : rAsA thOttaththu malligaiyum maNakkum AnA enga thOttam vERa - e.g. 2040

Cat 6: uLLabadiyE nAnga neutrals thAnungO - e.g. P_R, my nephew / niece etc

Now, even though I've thrown some names here in Gounder style (i.e. all these names are pAvam baligadAs), there are times when everyone listed could crossover to other categories (or) fit the description of more than one category etc. That kind of dynamism is due to human nature & soozhnilai changes ("mARRam mattumE nirandharam" / "there's just one reliable statement, that people are unreliable" etc).

However, even on a static state, there are individuals who cannot be boxed / bucketed into any categorizations...not even single point, double point ones. In database apps / interfaces etc, there are always provisions to handle "exceptions". i.e. do not fit into the major business rules.

Bonafide music fans.

Certified IR fans.

But not in cat 1 / 2 / 3 (and definitely not in the rest aka 456).

e.g plum, in his own admission.

While analysis of various flavours of music listening sensibilities of such exceptional groups (as to how they approach music, what they like, why they like etc) is beyond the capabilities of a poor a_e, for the point of discussion - whether NEPV reached them - I think such research may not be needed

That 'oru pAnaikku oru sORu' can be plum...(actually the problem is there's not oru pAnai but numerous pAnais but I'll conveniently forget that)...and let me close in conclusion that NEPV has reached such people as well

Once again I invite others (especially TN residents) to throw more light on this topic!

Even though it doesn't matter to our individual appreciation of NEPV or IR's status (like no need to prove anything anymore etc), it's always interesting to discuss if good music has really reached music lovers

Thanks for putting me in cat 1 - because.. believe it or not (i know you already believe) was listening to "Kaiyyil oru kea boardum" from ajantha which even in my opinion has the most insipid pallavi for an IR song - the second charanam and interludes surprised me and i was thinking - why did i hate this song some years back on the first listening.. looks like a genuine case of IR mania.