Re: The Rawk thread

[kv]

@CK - yes, Animals is a fantastic album. One of those #latepickupdanee albums for me; was never a big fan of Waters initially (I still don't 'get' most of his solo albums).

[crimson king]

Ditto, cannot penetrate his solo albums (nor Final Cut for that matter).  Up to Wall, Waters' vision combined with the trademark Floyd sense of melody to make it a terrific and terrifying experience.

[crimson king]

Time Flies - very nice chords indeed, though some of the Floyd-isms are rather obvious, esp the riff at 3:40 (very reminiscent of the Sheep coda though it resolves differently).

[kv]

Should be interesting to know how Waters fans perceive his solo/PK albums. B(K) engu irundhaalum mEdaikku varavum.

Thanks for the War Pigs cover; never seen this one. 

Here's another favorite of mine. 

Priest - painkiller
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uie63E4gqno&feature=kp

#uppingthetempo #schuldinerisgod
Death's cover 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffemOtmTsw8

[crimson king]

Painkiller was always meant to have those cookie monster vocals (not that it doesn't sound great with Halford's screams).  Schulinder took the song to its logical conclusion.  Where's the headbanging emoticon when you need it.

[crimson king]

Tool's version is an interesting 're-imagination' as some of the comments on the link refer to.  It's kind of heavy and scary, menacing.  LZ is trippy as hell, you don't even need to know the lyrics to figure it out because the very attitude is so trippy.  Tool's is also trippy but in a more long winded psychedelic way. I must admit I am more partial to the old school loose style of drumming which Bonham did so well on this song.    Nevertheless, a very enjoyable cover in its own right, thanks for sharing.

[crimson king]

A very interesting video because it puts both the 'new' and the 'old' rawk on the same platform.  Howe (it is his song anyway) demonstrates the old school's emphasis on style and the Dream Theater musicians show their passion for technicality and speed.

[fring151]

From what I have read, Waters was the songwriter, Rick Wright was the de facto musician of the band and Gilmour was quite simply a master guitarist. Much as I disregard lyrics most of the time, come on, you can't not be moved by lines like "Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way". Basically Gilmour's solo ventures don't have great lyrics and Waters's work doesn't have the delicious chords that characterises much of Floyd's work. Personally, I am not a big fan of the Animals album, but hey if you enjoy it, good for you  

[crimson king]

^^^  They nevertheless used to have more songs credited to different members of the band up to WYWH.  According to Waters, the band was spent after DSOTM itself but he egged them on with a Barrett-tribute idea for an album.  After that, if you listen to him, they didn't have any more ideas to contribute so he ended up writing the songs with the rest of Floyd getting relegated to a performing group.  The other guys claim Waters was very dominating and adamant on furthering his vision so after a while they just began to hang back and let him do as he pleased.  And hey, what he wanted to do worked well commercially so why rock the boat.     Not surprised you don't like Animals, since you are not much of a lyrics guy.

[fring151]

Ya have heard Gimour bitching in the ever stiff upper lip way about Waters's overarching role in the later albums   . And did I just write "quite desperation"? Fuck. Destroys it doesn't it? Edited it now. Ya, lyrics are always secondary for me. If the melody and chords catch my fancy, I might glance at the lyrics as an afterthought, never the other way round.

[crimson king]

In a way, Gilmour was right about Final Cut.  Not talking about its artistic qualities, but this is the album where Waters lost touch with the proverbial zeitgeist of the times.  Throughout the 70s, Floyd was able to capture what England was actually going through.  But the mood had changed in the 80s.  Waters himself recognised it and rebelled against it.  He disliked the Falklands War and the return to economic conservatism.  I respect his views and admire his guts to speak out but it was never going to work commercially. So the band in their then extant form could no longer continue.   And without Waters, Floyd didn't really have a voice as musically talented as they were.

[crimson king]

As I listen to TFC again, musically it feels too much like picking up right where they left off at The Wall.  Now every previous album from Piper to Wall had shown significant progress in one particular direction, whether or not one liked that direction as an individual listener.  This stagnation makes it difficult to persevere with the album and pay attention to Waters' lyrics and that's coming from somebody who loves Floyd lyrics.

[fring151]

True. If I had to introduce the rock noob to the "Essential Floyd", I wouldn't recommend anything beyond Meddle, DSOTM, WYWH and Wall. I do like a few songs from other albums, but not nearly as much as these 4 albums.

Their lyrics really were a plus, but

I respect his views and admire his guts to speak out but it was never going to work commercially. So the band in their then extant form could no longer continue.  

it is interesting their lyrics meant so much to English (or western, or that matter) listeners. You think their overall decline had as much to do with lyrics as other factors?

[crimson king]

I would say so.  First of all, rock lyrics are not like film music lyrics in that they are not written for a specific situation dictated by a director (all too often love, love, love).  They express the emotions of the artist and reveal a lot about himself/herself to the listeners. So as such (and not restricted to Floyd), lyrics play an important role in shaping the views of listeners about bands.  Why does Uli Roth get scant mention compared to many American or English guitar Gods when he was so clearly a wizard?  Because Scorpions lyrics really suck bigtime.  Secondly, Floyd's lyrics as such lay out a worldview and have a more panoramic rather than personal scope.  Even you who profess not to pay much attention to lyrics remarked about the lyrics of Time.  And truly, it is very difficult not to be impacted in some way by the lyrics of Time or Money or Us and Them.  Floyd at that time had the gift of addressing experiences many normal people would be familiar with and encapsulating them in just a few words without very high flown English.

The catch here is that through the 70s, what Floyd felt closely paralleled what England felt about those issues too.  The feeling of England slipping into mediocrity and going to waste, of the Vietnam war or such being a monumental waste of human lives, the use of allegory to describe the hierarchy of society in Animals (a technique derived from George Orwell's Animal Farm including the relative ranks of pigs, dogs and sheep), all things that resonated with the listeners just as they did with Waters.  But the same listeners rallied around Thatcher's mission to restore wounded English pride.  Perhaps many of them in retrospect would slam her policies and not even admit to voting her to power but at that time they might have considered Final Cut too negative and out of sync with their own feelings.

[fring151]

That's a very interesting perspective. I always view music through my "music only" prism and the larger dynamics at play are not always clear to me. It is indeed hard not to be impacted by the lyrics of even "Echoes" or "Breathe". Such abstract thought expressed in simple, poetic lines! I am not a big fan of the typical TFM lou or paaluravu lyrics and the greater scope, universality and elegant sophistication of Floyd's lyrics has always held a special charm for me!

[crimson king]

TFM lyrics played an important role in my blanking out lyrics in my appreciation earlier.  I have gradually begun to come around to a different view: where lyrics are great, I would want to pay attention to them especially if the music is also at least somewhat interesting.  Where lyrics are bad, I still remember how to shut them out.  Not only Floyd, lots of great artists in rock/pop come up with great lyrics.  The Magazine song I had posted earlier has the lines "Do you want the truth/or do you want your sanity?".  PF did give the impetus for me to change my position; by the time I moved from DSOTM to Animals, I started listening with the lyrics open on the browser so I could follow it simultaneously.

[fring151]

In TFM. >90% songs revolve around lou, which is fine, except that it gets tiresome after a point. I guess that's unavoidable in film music. Either way, I am indifferent. As I said, lyrics are simply an added bonus for me. I still can't get myself to enjoy a song for lyrics alone unless the music is also genuinely good (not just somewhat interesting)

[crimson king]

Well, what happens, from my experience, is you cannot fully grasp the power of a vocal rendition without the lyrics.  It provides the context, esp in rock which covers wide ranging topics.  E.g  Waters wailing the way he does on Don't Leave Me Now makes no sense without lyrics.

[fring151]

Here, I would say that TM Krishna probably articulated it best - lyrics are important only insofar as how the syllables fold into the melody, whether they capture the contours of the tune - the peaks and valleys. Rest all is secondary. But of course, if the lyrics are abstract and philosophical, my ears are always open. Liked the idea of "Do you want the truth/or do you want your sanity?". Reminded me of Jack Nicholson's "You can't handle the truth" dialogue from "A few good men".    

[crimson king]

TMK is entitled to his views and so are you, will leave it at that.   

[fring151]

Should have said, "TMK articulated my POV best". Of course, differing opinions make life colourful  

[crimson king]

Listening to this after ages and reminded of how much I love that syncopated groove in the second half. 

[fring151]

Bit of a bummer.

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-27497950

[crimson king]

^^^  It's a pretty old issue that keeps cropping up once in a while.  

Meanwhile, not exactly rock, but kind of rock/jazz-related.  Hallelujah by the Paddy McAloon 'vehicle' Prefab Sprout. And by the way, has nothing to do with the Leonard Cohen song by the same name.

[crimson king]

Cheesy 80s production notwithstanding, a great song about life under the nuclear/Cold war cloud.

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