Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Thanks a lot grouch for your kind words and wishes. I think you all have too much confidence in me, I don't think I can keep up with your expectations. It all started in mayyam with App ji and all your support. I still recall the encouragement I received after my every post. How tirelessly you all read and posted comments without fail. It continued to my blog and here again with your wonderful initiative. I can't imagine how I would have kept to myself without this forum and without you creating this forum. All credit to you guys. 

Then I casually started participating in 'Quiz a day' hosted by Rex which again got me little serious after reading some excellent write-ups by Rex, GiRa, Sri and others and overwhelming encouragement by Rex and friends. After that quiz ended immediately another quiz started by Prasanna & friends which again intrigued me to participate regularly as I got to hear so many rare gems of Maestro for the first time. The amount of satisfaction to search those songs and listen as if it is a new release is much more than the new releases itself. GiRa started MSV quiz (weekly quiz) where I got to learn another perspective of his songs every week. Now kanapraba started another chorus quiz which again is so tempting every day by the song choices and the way chorus has been demonstrated by Maestro. When they publish the quiz songs and comments, they don't forget to respond to your write-ups which gives additional motivation. It did not end there, they twit about it in twitter where many get to read and appreciate, thereby earning many friends and fans.

One of my friends (many thanks to Rishi) who took additional step in compiling all my comments (on quizzes) and put them on google docs and twitted about it, that's where I got overwhelming responses in the last three days. Thanks to all who favorited and retweeted my posts. Now Chokkan sir and friends are talking about publishing it. I kind of feeling very shy and unable to comprehend all this. I don't think I really deserve all this. It only says how big and kind heart everyone has.

So it is not just me, it is a collective effort which made me here and it is you all (everyone one here, at mayyam, in twitter) who added fuel to my inner fire and passion of Maestro's music. Without you all, I would be nothing. Thanks a lot!

V_S - you are the breath of this forum. nInga illaina indha forum illai.
Book ellAm very small matter - what is of importance is your passion. May it remain forever

ithukkum thanks sollakoodaatha..sari

Yes, this forum is my breath. Everyday I wake up to see our forum first.

plum wrote:
App- the intentions of this poster might be correct but the conclusion is wrong. Why? 
http://t.co/gRMQx8JR7J

Excellent twitlonger!

Other than ezhuththuppizhai / typo, I totally agree

I brought that fb link here with a hope to initiate a discussion. Your post beautifully summarizes all the points

It's also enlightening to read some of Sureshji's tweets on the subject (that Indian MD's are comfortable "composing" ICM / folk kind of interludes where melody rules with lead instrument as conceived by the MD while balance orch. is a colloborative effort).

Srikanth D used to challenge IRF's in one tfmpage thread asking them to name 10 new things that IR brought to TFM (which he can name but HCIRFs cannot). IIRC, orch harmony was one among them. While it wasn't true that IR was the first to bring it to TFM (contrary examples can be easily given from pre-IR period), perhaps IR was the first biggie MD to do that on his own, from a TFM PoV while his biggie predecessors lacked the skill. (Smallies did do / did have the skills ; M B Srinivasan could be named among the pioneers there...)

V_Sji,
எனக்கு புஸ்தகமும் வேணும், ஃபோரமும் வேணும்

நாங்கல்லாம் ராசா இசை கேட்டு வளந்த (பலஹீனமான) பேராசை கோஷ்டி

cc: groucho & plum

VS,

   You have touched on most of the aspects of music composing work with the exception of one. That is the style of music composing. Majority of composers compose by trial-and-error. They play the tune on a keyboard, the interludes on a keyboard (piano in the case of JW) and finally get to it after several tries.

   Raja is a 'designer composer'. He has all in his head and does not do much trial-and-error. I have seen a few pictures of him trying out tonal levels on a keyboard, but that's about it. If you observe the way AR composes the song 'Nenjukulle' in kadal, he constantly improvises on the keyboard and Keba tries his notes on the guitar. This is typical of most composers other than Raja.

  Most composers need cue lengths precisely defined with a stop watch or markers on AWS (Audio work stations) to then write music for the scene. Raja's style is different, as he does not use a AWS for BGM (for cue markers), not even a stop watch to measure the time. His mind computes musical bars as his eyes watch a scene. You still need to sync the music to the film as there may be scenes not requiring any music. However, the #bars  runs through his mind quickly that he is gifted to write music on his flash memory of that moment. His mind not only absorbs the timing, but also the emotion, and the environment.

  When doing BGM, most composers not only repeatedly look at scenes to get the emotion of the scene(s), but also the timing and the environment - it is typically a multi-pass situation where it is easy to get stuck with the task of providing music for the scene. Conveniently, most composers, outsource this work to others.  And what do the BGM composers do? They rehash the tune in the film with different instruments to get past the scene. That's why the BGM simply does not stick.

  Case in point is ASK and Nandalala - not only is the BGM so apt in the film, Raja does not rehash any of his tunes in both the films.

  All this song composition is pretty easy stuff compared to what I have described above.

Cognizant drummer lady

இளையராஜா சார் இசையை வாசிச்சுப் பழகணுங்கிறது ரொம்ப நாள் திட்டம். அதுக்குப் பழகிட்டா, எப்படிப்பட்ட இசையையும்  வாசிக்கிற தன்னம்பிக்கை வந்துடும். அந்த முயற்சியும் ஒரு பக்கம் தொடர்ந்திட்டிருக்கு....

V_Sji book - status update

Chokkan sir wrote:
@maestrosworld Publisher wrote back, He is ready to publish the book 'ஒரு நூறு பதம்’ன்னு டைட்டில் வெச்சுடுவோமா?

Thanks a lot Appji for regularly posting the updates. I really appreciate your interest. I am really thrilled

Ravi,
Thanks for taking time to read my posts and posting your feedback. Wonderful write-up on Maestro's style of composing. Yes, composing for background score is way more difficult than to compose a song. Especially when Maestro watches/scan the film only once and he writes all the code in the mind and translate to paper with lightning speed, is something impossible for even great yesteryear Maestros, leave alone the kids here. It is better not to talk about BGM aspect apart from Maestro, no one has/will have any clue on this

As you might know, I participated/participating in the quiz daily. I don't know what song they are going to feature that day. So nothing is planned from my side. Those were random thoughts struck at that moment. I might not have covered all facets of Maestro's work (it is highly impossible to cover every side), mostly focused on emotional aspect and what is special about that composition. That's it. For some songs I would have written in length, some songs it would be short depending upon the time also I had that day, even if the songs are equally good.

I have to tweak a  lot before presenting to Chokkan sir and publisher which I will be doing in coming days.

Thanks a lot for all your feedback.

app_engine wrote: V_Sji book - status update

Chokkan sir wrote:
@maestrosworld Publisher wrote back, He is ready to publish the book 'ஒரு நூறு பதம்’ன்னு டைட்டில் வெச்சுடுவோமா?

way to go V_S, when are they planning to release it?
appadiya Appendix'la include your writings on NEPV/SRR with a link to the phorum   

In simple terms, if I accept MSV as an arranger, then Rahman is probably one, too, being as he decides down to the final mix of the sounds his songs encompass. He clearly has a vision of how to arrange the sounds available to him into a cohesive whole.

Itunes no.1 MD introduced what is prevalent currently called 'Music production',this team comprises
of 2-3 members depending on size of MDs wallet. he actually compartmentalized each of the arrangements to 'specialists'
for instance at varying times he had Clinton/Pravin Mani to arrange vocals/
Barot for rhythm arrangement(remember Vidyasagar and his punjaab mixes in late 90s all courtesy this guy) or a guy like GP
to arrange complex(for him ;-)) orchestral pieces like Lagaan theme..music production is more and more turning out to be
final year engg. project   

P.S. on Diman's credits, the name Vasu(the guy who mans the backup vocals in Raaja concerts)
makes me curious. He was also seen during 'Ammadi' music-making video..does this expain some of
Diman's recent flirtations and distinct shift from his house sound??

V_S,

Super. All the best and hope the book materializes soon. It will be well deserved for all your love for Raja and your unstinting and selfless effort. 

You are in good hands  Chokkan knows a lot about the publishing industry, having started a small publishing house himself. He is the perfect man to guide you in this regard. Take his advice and do accordingly. I am sure the book will come out great.

Here are a set of tweets I exchanged with Plum and dagalti on twitter about who can be called a composer.

@nom_d_plum Yes. You have put things in their proper place. As Uttam Singh once said on stage, he had arranged for songs of many composers. He said that only Raja is the one who did everything himself. And Blanco, the man who play tramboune, said the same


To be honest. MSV's orchestration was not very consistent after he moved away from TKR. In the early 80s consistency went for a toss maybe due to multiple inputs



In an earlier era you can see a lot of consistency in the music of Anil Biswas, Madan Mohan and Roshan. I am sure harmonies were done by others but clearly kept the MDs vision in mind


There is a major issue here. As long as the interlude is a tune it is OK but when more instruments come in. you need to know the grammar of western harmony to get the instrumentation right. This is where the arrangers came in. For examples, whenever Hindi folks wanted to rock-n-roll stuff , they got a person from Goa for help. The songs to which this person (I forgot his name) contributed in listed in book.



@dagalti "@Raaga_Suresh @nom_d_plum but was it 'jamming' together and then the MD's decision on what fits with his idea or 'outsourced'?"



I guess it depended on the composer. According to Blanco, RD had two 'assistants' one for Western and one for Indian .music arrangement. They discussed together and came up with the final orchestration.



In genres where the MD is at ease (mostly Indian classical) inputs would be given. In case of other genres arrangers may do most of the stuff. That is why rock-nroll songs of many MDs sound very similar



he major problem was that most of our MDs were well versed with Indian classical and folk music. When it came to Western Classical music and rock music, their knowledge was limited. That music is very formal and has strict rules So only those who were aware of the rules could set the harmonies and our MDs did depend on these to add 'richness' Hence it was mostly a combination of a tunesmith and an arranger which created the final product In cases of duo composers, one was generally well versed in arrangement like Jaikishen in Shankar Jaikishan and TKR. Raja is one who understand the WCM theory very well and hence does not need any help to write the harmonies Ofcourse knowing the theory is just one part but an essential one for being a complete composer



But by ARR times things have changed. You have arrangers from drums, you have samples you can include in a way music sample companies became arrangers I am not sure but I think there would software available which given a tune and spit out some chords for it

Wizzy,

The orchestral works of the iTunes No.1 MD was also sometimes done by Sreenivasamurthy ('there was no orchestra music by 1992' statement fame) His name is credited on more than one occasion as 'Strings arranged by"

Thanks Wizzy and Suresh ji for your suggestions and recommendations. I will surely act accordingly.

plum wrote:It is not that important for me to write this, but, well, I have a few minutes to jot this down, and you, presumably, going by your brave click a few seconds ago, have a few minutes to read so why not?
It seems like the old chestnut of Composing vs Music direction has been discovered for just about the 297356785th time in History. 
In the context of Tamil Film Music, this has been sufficiently addressed by professional musicians and amateurs far more qualified than I am about 15-16 years ago in what was then an excellent forum of high quality for discussions on tamil film music - tfmpage.com. 
What I will be regurgitating in the following paragraphs is a diluted extract of those discussions such as still remain in my memory.

The facebook post I refer to adequately defines a composer's job and an arranger's job, while claiming that only IR and ARR, among Tamil Film music-directors, can be called composers.
This is a disputable claim, with your opinion depending on how you view the definition of the terms.
Wiki can give you a rough idea of the terms but I'll stick to my instinctive understanding from the discussions I referred to.

In the complete process of creation of a song or a musical piece, a creator creates the tune, arranges it, orchestrate or gets it done or gets it done and does the instrumentation or gets it done. There is a lot of overlap between the jobs that a person doing the latter 3 jobs, and you wont get a uniform mutually exclusive definition of those terms. The term instrumentation may not be separately needed at all depending on the definitions you take.

Sufficient to say orchestration is the process of writing music for an orchestra. In Film music context, it is a practice for a lot of Music-Directors to engage an orchestrator even outside the context of IFM. This definition clearly means a MD like MSV clearly is not in the reckoning to do this job as he doesn't write music for an orchestra. That is, presumably, the job that the likes of Joseph Krishna and Henry Daniel performed for him. We'll come back to this

Arrangement, in simple terms, is the process of adding meat to a composition. In western contexts, they say that an arranger can either create fresh arrangements for an original piece or adapt a previous composition to a particular new style. For example, the Birmingham orchestra adapting Rahman songs to a WCM style. This should give you a clue that the original Rahman song that was adapted had a different style of arrangement.
An arranger offers creative input is how I internalised it. So, a session musician giving inputs on to how the meat is added is, in fact, a co-composer. 

It follows that having inputs into the arrangement essentially gives you a part-role, at the least, as a composer of the song/musical piece.

So, in summary, you'd expect a composer to
1) Tune the song 2) Have inputs into its arrangement

When it comes to orchestration/instrumentation, it seems to me the term "composer" is used even in cases where a separate orchestrator is identified and credited for scores. (i.e.) the tune creator with inputs into the style of arrangement is called a composer conventionally in film music terms with the understanding that a separate orchestrator/instrumentator may be employed to write the scores for specific instruments, even decide on the specific mix of instruments and decide on which instrument plays or sustains specific notes.

Given this context, let's see what our MDs do:
1. MSV - 
MSV, of course, is a master tunesmith. In terms of the arrangement and orchestration, we clearly saw earlier that whatever he is, an orchestrator he is not, for he lacks the formal education to be one.
Is he an arranger? What does he contribute to the decisions on how to flesh out the composition in terms of the actual music that plays out in the interludes and BGM.
It seems to me, on evidence of inputs from his assistants and others who witnessed his composing and recording sessions, that he did have significant input into this.

We have, on the words of no less an authority than...Ilayaraja...that MSV used to decide on which instruments to be used, and what tunes they play out by humming out the tunes. (i.e) not just the pallavi and saranam tune sung by the singer but the interlude tunes to be played out by specific instruments.

To me, this is sufficient to mark him as a contributor to the arrangement, and in fact, the orchestration/instrumentation process. It does seem like he has an organic vision of the orchestration and it is only the limitations of formal education that prevent him from writing the notes out. 

However, I have a question that is not sufficiently answered in my mind: discussions like bass orchestration of MSV leave me slightly baffled, since writing bass notes, to me, seems like not being a layman job, more of an orchestration intricacy, strictly to be attempted by trained professionals!

I am not sure either where composing the bass part comes - arrangement or orchestration/instrumentation. My guess is instrumentation, which is why I don't take this as disqualifying MSV from being an arranger as well. You may want to differ based on the demarcation you place between arrangement-orchestration-instrumentation in your mind.

So, yes, in my mind, MSV does qualify as a composer, if not one as complete a composer as Ilayaraja.
What you can dispute here is that MSV is responsible for the complete arrangement of the song - did he really hum out the background violin score that accompanies the pallavi in kaNgaL enGE; then again, I will file that under orchestration and ignore it as a strict requirement for me to use the term arranger for MSV.

In fact, I think I am on very shifty ground with my claim - you can easily demolish my arguments for MSV being an arranger. But I am not going to do it for you

2. Ilayaraja - Well, the way I have defined it, this man does everything, right down to the instrumentation. Obviously, my definition of what a complete composer does seems to have been tailor-made for this little fellow.

3. AR Rahman

In simple terms, if I accept MSV as an arranger, then Rahman is probably one, too, being as he decides down to the final mix of the sounds his songs encompass. He clearly has a vision of how to arrange the sounds available to him into a cohesive whole.

However, the disputable aspects of calling Rahman a composer, come here in a different form:
1) Aspects of the tune being contributed by a singer. It is said that often a singer is allowed to sing in a particular raga, then Rahman takes portions of it and mixes a final song. This, to me, takes away partial composing credit from Rahman to the singer
2) Rahman clearly has a lot of inputs into arranging the song from deciding the style, genres used, instruments mimicked etc. Where, again, the dispute comes is that he is said to mix final output from others - say, Naveen plays a long piece on the flute, Rahman stores it and eventually takes portions of it and mixes it in the orchestration of his song - to create a song or piece of his own. To me, this takea away his orchestrating credit, the same as MSV, with the difference being MSV is at least reputed to have decided what the instruments will play as tune and only was unable to write it out; Rahman, it seems, allows the co-composing session musician to orchestrate all by himself!

In short, if Rahman is given credit for arranging and orchestrating, MSV can very much be given the same credit. It is clear that both of them do not stand out indisputably as complete owners of their creation,say, like IR, in this context.

This is not unusual in Indian film music history either. We have heard tales of Jerry Amaldev completely taking care of arrangement and orchestration for Naushad, and on occasions contributing to tune as well. Jerry, decades later, lamented the lack of reognition for his *ocmposing* contributions to Naushad. 

In general, by default, the average Indian Film MD leaves the arrangement and orchestration to others, especially in Hindi Film Music, whose history tells us that save for Salil Chowdhury, very few were complete composers. You can also see that in the arrangements and style being common for each era.
Composers like SD Burman, Shankar-Jaikishen, RD Burman seem to have had their inputs into arrangement, in the same way as MSV and ARR, as it is seen in the distinct style of arrangements one can discern in their music.

In TFM, KVM is known to have left the arrangements *completely* to Pugazhendhi so it was actually a composing duo Mahadevan-Pugazhendhi, the same as MSV-TKR.


However, what I find funny is that the said fb post asserting that ONLY IR and ARR can be called "composers", if you define composition as the complete process from tune creation down to mixing. This is not true at all for several reasons
* As we saw above, Raja is in a different league. We can only loosely argue that what Raja does in terms of complete composition is the same as MSV/ARR (I say this as a die-hard fan of MSV, someone who started out musical discussions in life in MSV's camp AGAINST Raja fans)
* If ARR is considered a composer with inputs into arrangement/orchestration, MSV is EVEN MORE OF a composer than ARR for reasons discussed above.

That is not all. In casually stating that all MDs before IR didnt have inputs into arrangement/orchestration, the said poster has erred in recording history.

It is a fact that Saluri Rajeshwara Rao was one of the earliest ones to take orchestration seriously as part of his job. He is known to have strong knowledge of arrangement/orchestration, and is said to have been one of the pioneer MDs in this regard. 

The earliest MD IR refers to Khemchand Prakash is also of similar reputation.

Jerry Amaldev, when turned composer for Malaualam movies decades afer his experience with Naushad, can also be considered a complete composer for he took care of the arrangement and orchestration, too.

In conclusion, if we go for all-round contribution to the process of music-making for films, there are two names that stand tall above others in terms of complete ownership of their compositions, and unparalleled long-term success and vitality - Salil Chowdhury and Ilayaraja. Everything else is just opinion.

P.S: I'll leave you with this link, and encourage you to make your own conclusion:
https://www.facebook.com/d.imman.music/posts/432536546778511

QUOTE All songs composed,arranged,programmed,recorded and mixed by D.Imman UNQUOTE

Nice write up!

plum wrote:As we saw above, Raja is in a different league. We can only loosely argue that what Raja does in terms of complete composition is the same as MSV/ARR (I say this as a die-hard fan of MSV, someone who started out musical discussions in life in MSV's camp AGAINST Raja fans)

 
Oho. One learns something new ever day   

Btw, here is Uttam Singh weighing in. This is also the place where Raja mentions that a certain famous song was originally written for the flute to be featured in the NBW album, but owing to album length constraints, could not be included, was "stolen" by Kamal and later became an all time classic. This is an IR forum. Do I need to name the song?   

ValaiyOsai!

I would like to make one point in the composer/MD debate which might differ with some other opinions here. I am encouraged by the fact that in the previous video I linked, Raja actually disagrees with Uttam Singh that he is the only complete composer in India. It is revealing that rather than simply shrug it off, he proceeds to illustrate why he disagrees, namely how melody was central to the music making of his illustrious predecessors and arrangement is, relatively speaking, a trivial task. Was he simply being self-deprecating and trying to play down Uttam Singh's matter-of-fact, adulatory words?  I don't think so.

Aren't we projecting WCM based definitions of "composer" on the old HFM and TFM composers? Remember that WCM is not nearly as preoccupied with melody as Indian music where an attractive melodic hook is highly desirable, a must even - where skillful employment of melodic and rhythmic devices is the hallmark of a great musician or composer. Now did the HFM or TFM stalwarts of the past manage to achieve this? Personally, even with my relatively limited knowledge and exposure to their music, I think yes. Unlike Raja or even Salil Choudhary's music where orchestration and harmony is often a central part of the music and not merely an embellishment or ornamentation, many old HFM MDs were composers in the sense of the Indian milieu, where being a master tunesmith is a necessary and sufficient condition to be considered a composer.

I have been listening to a lot of Madan Mohan songs lately and I have to say it is quite unfair if we consider MM an "incomplete" composer because he hired someone else to arrange the strings for "Chirag dil ka" or "Zara si aahat" or "Aap ki nazron". Would these songs be any poorer bereft of the string section notes, which, come to think of it are rather standard and non-complicated? Does their beauty derive from the melody or the orchestration and chords?

I have not written this as sharply nor articulated myself nearly as well as I would have liked to, but well...

fring151 wrote:I would like to make one point in the composer/MD debate which might differ with some other opinions here. I am encouraged by the fact that in the previous video I linked, Raja actually disagrees with Uttam Singh that he is the only complete composer in India. It is revealing that rather than simply shrug it off, he proceeds to illustrate why he disagrees, namely how melody was central to the music making of his illustrious predecessors and arrangement is, relatively speaking, a trivial task. Was he simply being self-deprecating and trying to play down Uttam Singh's matter-of-fact, adulatory words?  I don't think so.

Aren't we projecting WCM based definitions of "composer" on the old HFM and TFM composers? Remember that WCM is not nearly as preoccupied with melody as Indian music where an attractive melodic hook is highly desirable, a must even - where skillful employment of melodic and rhythmic devices is the hallmark of a great musician or composer. Now did the HFM or TFM stalwarts of the past manage to achieve this? Personally, even with my relatively limited knowledge and exposure to their music, I think yes. Unlike Raja or even Salil Choudhary's music where orchestration and harmony is often a central part of the music and not merely an embellishment or ornamentation, many old HFM MDs were composers in the sense of the Indian milieu, where being a master tunesmith is a necessary and sufficient condition to be considered a composer.

I have been listening to a lot of Madan Mohan songs lately and I have to say it is quite unfair if we consider MM an "incomplete" composer because he hired someone else to arrange the strings for "Chirag dil ka" or "Zara si aahat" or "Aap ki nazron". Would these songs be any poorer bereft of the string section notes, which, come to think of it are rather standard and non-complicated? Does their beauty derive from the melody or the orchestration and chords?

I have not written this as sharply nor articulated myself nearly as well as I would have liked to, but well...

I am glad that younger folks like Fring have taken the time to listen to MM. That is the true effect of listening to Raja.

I agree with Fring that being a good tune master in the 60s was the primary requirement. Most of the top composers of that decade were very good with Indian classical music, which was the No. 1 requirement. However, almost all of the top composers had some excellent Western music rich compositions. Examples, Waqt Ne Kiya (SD), Ajeeb Daastan (SJ), Dil Pukar Lo (Hemant). Raja respects all of these composers. However, the biggest difference between him and others is that they did not formally write 4-part scores. Harmony was left to the arranger/conductor. The idea of notating every sound came only after Raja. However, the sad part is his not archiving them and cataloging them. I cannot imagine somebody gifting formally printed Raja's compositions to others, the way Raja fans present him with Bach's compositions. That's the hypocrisy I find it hard to swallow. 

Fring, here's the best of Lata-MM for your listening pleasure:

Madan Mohan	Aaj Socha To Aansoo Bhar Aaye	Hanste Zakham	1973	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcOfJLdIh1M
Madan Mohan	Aap Ki Nazaron Ne Samjha	Anpad	1962	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKCQZvfOxqA
Madan Mohan	Aap Kyon Roye	Woh Kaun Thi	1964	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r84T4II2nU
Madan Mohan	Agar Mujhse Mohabbat Hai	Aap Ki Parchaiyan	1964	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi4BOnTLIp8
Madan Mohan	Baiyan Na Dharo	Dastak	1970	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSERYQGm6fE
Madan Mohan	Betaab Dil Ki Tamanna Yahi Hai	Hanste Zakhm	1973	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd2Iq4eByAg
Madan Mohan	Do Dil Toote	Heer Ranjha	1970	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp6rG0N-qPs
Madan Mohan	Hai Tere Saath Meri Wafaa	Hindustan Ki Kasam	1973	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-_9eL0xkMI
Madan Mohan	Hum Pyar Mein Jalnewalon Ko	Jailor	1958	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFvgtLR6dN0
Madan Mohan	Jana Tha Hamse Door	Adalat	1958	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvwC9c81esY
Madan Mohan	Lag Ja Gale	Woh Kaun Thi	1964	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFr6G5zveS8
Madan Mohan	Main To Tum Sang Nain Milake	Manmauji	1962	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD6bIY4F_m0
Madan Mohan	Mayi Ri Main Kase Kahoon	Dastak	1970	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw3hmdC1HNg
Madan Mohan	Mera Saaya Saath Hoga	Mera Saaya	1966	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvwXhK4y6E
Madan Mohan	Meri Aankhon Se Koi Neend Liye Jata Hai	Pooja Ke Phool	1964	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpm0R_RYIdI
Madan Mohan	Na Tum Bewafa Ho	Ek Kali Muskai	1968	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhD23a84Zgg
Madan Mohan	Naina Barse	Woh Kaun Thi	1964	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lyNZ0gca-M
Madan Mohan	Naino Mein Badra Chaaye	Mera Saaya	1966	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moLtGICevDY
Madan Mohan	Rahte the kabhi	Mamta	1966	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsML3qb2tvQ
Madan Mohan	Ruke Ruke Se Kadam	Mausam	1975	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIDphvxk3ZI
Madan Mohan	Unko Yeh Shikayat Hai	Adalat	1958	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzH9QG3P-R0
Madan Mohan	Woh Bhooli Dastan	Sanjog	1961	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsd8SayN4zs
Madan Mohan	Woh Chup Rahen To	Jahan Ara	1964	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHd70-DBGJM
Madan Mohan	Yun Hasraton Ke Daag	Adalat	1958	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrazbln8K9o
Madan Mohan	Zara Si Aahat Hoti Hai	Haqeeqat	1964	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ii-Wh4mBrk

IR's daughter, Bhava, sings for HJ

The film's director K.V.Anand has confirmed the news in a recent interview saying, "It is true. Bhavatharini has sung for the first time in Harris's music. The song is a folk number and begins with the phrase, 'Athaadi Athaadi'. I thought the song would sound great in her voice and suggested her name. We requested her and Bhavatharini agreed."  Anand has expressed satisfaction that the song has come out as good as he expected it to be.

"as good as he expected it to be"

thalai muRaigaL producer takes the award to IR, to get vAzhththukaL

BTW, that producer is actor-director Sashikumar

ஆடு பகை, குட்டி உறவு

Sundarrajan

நாம் பிரபல பாடகர்களின் பாடலைக் கேட்கிறோம் ஆனால் அவர்கள் முதலில்  கேட்பது சுந்தர்ராஜனின் பாடலைத்தான். ஒரு பாடலை பாடகர் ஒருவர் சுந்தர்ராஜனிடம் இருந்து உள்வாங்கி அதை தனது குரலில் பாடி முடிக்க (அனேகமான பாடல்களுக்கு) 3 மணி நேரம்  ஆகுமாம். இவரின் எத்தனை பாடல்கள் ஒலிப்பதிவாகி இவரது குரலிலேயே வெளிவந்தனவோ எனக்குத் தெரியவில்லை ஆனால் தேவர் மகன் என்ற படத்தில் போற்றிப்பாடடி பெண்ணே.. என்ற பாடலைப்பாடியது இவர்தான்.

Looks like I have been away from this forum for a while.. Many interesting posts..
I feel V_S writings are surely book material. It throws more light on the the possible workings of a complex mind :-) Earlier I have seen senthil do this with one song.
When I read V_S wrote the commentary on SRR I was so flabbergasted I had to call up the man and talk to him. Awesome. Congrats V_S.
I know Plum would definitively handle this composer definition issue. The sad thing is, people want to include ARR's name along with IR on things like this to avoid any potential backlash and criticism of their own opinion.
This is surely some light form of intellectual dishonesty going on (even though I am with fring on the definition of composer)
I think IR also plays out the tune on the harmonium, only the rest of the stuff is written. It could be possible he might write out the charanams and only plays/sings the pallavi for the sake of the producer/director.