Super Singer - Singers of the future

Thanks a lot DM for the link :)I remember watching it, will watch it again.

EDIT: Watched it. This is even better as he explained the situation more in detail. They even played the original. Mysskin's unique way of conveying his love and regards to Maestro and his work. Superb!

Here it is:

Please save this video to look back.

Listening to the Idhu Oru Nila performance again...I have one complaint about the way they do it in these shows.  I have watched a few of these by now on Super Singer and every time they play the rhythm section like it's lounge jazz.   The drums on the original are totally rocking...add the na dir thana in the interlude and it's fusion 101.   I don't understand why they have to soften it up so much on these shows, the uninhibited energy of the original is totally missing.

And I think Niranjana tends to open her mouth WIDE...esp the way she enunciates the "elamaiye" word.  It sounds strange, the natural flow of singing/speaking in Tamil is not there.  You only want the 'feeling' of singing with an open throat, you don't actually open the mouth as big as you can (and esp not wide, that reduces the focus) first and then try to produce sound.

Finally, caught up on the super singer excitement after app posted a youtube link in the other forums which I read mainly.
RE: mysskin - yeah.. he sounds crazy ..even Srinivas gave him the 'look' when he mentioned Mendelssohn. But I believe normal people produce normal stuff. For that matter, people consider even IR as 'crazy' but look at the output !!!
I remember seeing Mysskin's HongKong speech but this time it made a major impact on me. IR did the same thing in 'azhagi' - un kuthama en kuthama. In his own words, "appadiyE vaarthai thaana vanthu vizhunthuchchu'.
Re: 70/80s - even Srinivas' keeps saying 'andha kaalathula' .. is this an innocent remark or conscious attempt to make it sound like IR's current output is not upto the mark .. I dont know.
SPS like her brother is so particular about pronounciation .. amazing people whose first language is not tamil are so true to the language. We tamil people are being very irreverential to our language ..very sad. (yes I am ok with other state kids competing - Sharath/Asianet all do tamil songs a lot. We are all not very different people or our languages are that different).

Caught the Oct 23 episode
http://www.tamiltwist.com/2013/10/super-singer-4-23-10-2013-vijay-tv-show.html

Really sad to see Viji Manuel's state of health. He recollects his friendship with IR dating back to 1973 when they played guitar together for GK Venkatesh. His fingers are almost trembling when he improvises Nee pArtha pArvai in the end. Salute to the legend.  . Edho ninaivugal by Madhumita was my favourite today. Poove iLaya poove was also quite good. Hearing that song after a while actually - chuffed that he picked it. Orchestra gets better with each episode. I am of course accounting for the fact that they probably can't capture every detail of the original score (since they probably don't have a copy?), but quite satisfactory overall. Viji Manuel also gets emotional about live music and instruments as opposed to 'computers'.

What happened to him, actually?  He cannot be much older than IR, if at all.  He played well in spite of his condition but it must not be half of what he could do. 





I didn't really listen to the performances right through except Raja Raja Cholan because I have to get started with the day ahead and was in a hurry to listen to whatever Manuel had to say!  They could have fleshed out more stuff, didn't even ask him to mention one memorable episode or such.    That is why A V Ramanan was a much better presenter for music shows than this Mokka-pps.  Raja Raja Cholan...he sang it faithfully for the most part (except that he seemed to have transposed it upward which kind of defeats the point of choosing a song with KJY's full baritone effect).  But the conflict between the hero's desires and his doubts over what he is doing (which is obviously wrong) didn't really come out.   And that generally seems to be the trend...most of them don't get into the emotions of the song.

kiru wrote:Re: 70/80s - even Srinivas' keeps saying 'andha kaalathula' .. is this an innocent remark or conscious attempt to make it sound like IR's current output is not upto the mark .. I dont know.

Could be just nostalgia, reliving his own 'youthu' days.  I like the fact that they have called over Mysskin, Ramya NSK and the other singer (can't get her name just now).   Even mentioned that Ramya got awards for Sattru Munbu.  That itself is tacit acknowledgment that IR is still going strong.

crimson king wrote:

kiru wrote:Re: 70/80s - even Srinivas' keeps saying 'andha kaalathula' .. is this an innocent remark or conscious attempt to make it sound like IR's current output is not upto the mark .. I dont know.

Could be just nostalgia, reliving his own 'youthu' days.  I like the fact that they have called over Mysskin, Ramya NSK and the other singer (can't get her name just now).   Even mentioned that Ramya got awards for Sattru Munbu.  That itself is tacit acknowledgment that IR is still going strong.

Ya. I'd cut Srini and Sujatha some slack. As V_S says, he even asked them to play the 2nd interlude and he seems to thoroughly be enjoying every moment of it. But I think as a constructive critic, SP Sailaja is by far and away the best of the lot.

As for the hosts, even the kid couldn't stand the moron anymore  ("KannAdiku munnAdi neenga enna pannuveengalO adhe thAn panuven" ). Dude got owned by a kid on TV  . 

No idea why Vjii Manuel's health has deteriorated so much.

fring151 wrote:No idea why Vjii Manuel's health has deteriorated so much.

Was ailing for quite a bit. Alcohol related issues.

Drunkenmunk wrote:

fring151 wrote:No idea why Vjii Manuel's health has deteriorated so much.

Was ailing for quite a bit. Alcohol related issues.

 
Sad to know  . Would have loved to see him in action in Raja's live shows.

On the performances, I watched 'Edho ninaivugal' again. The song itself is an exhibition in vocal dynamics and the singer (Madhumita was her name?) does have a gift for dynamics. 

CK, you are right about them being light on the drumming. Even for neethAne enthan ponvasantham the other day it was quite limp. Maybe they are instructed to go soft for fear of drowning out the singer, being that the show is mainly about them. But at least turn on the bass guitar volume dammit!

Also watched his Nee pArtha pArvai improvisation again. It's masterful alright. He might seem weak and unsteady and 'out of touch' , but I didn't hear one unintended or slurred note. And some of the harmonies were incredible - loved the part from 3:24 to 3:44. IR doesn't declare someone India's best pianist just like that.

Yet to watch this episode but happened to see a link from twitter (courtesy Mayil Senthil ):

FB page of Singer / Composer Srinivas

There's a comment there by one K J Singh:

K J Singh wrote:
He is THE man! He gave me goosebumps everytime he played on that one AR tour. And his chord progressions during the National Anthem, at the end of the concerts, would drive us into orgasmic zones! Much Respect.

So, doubttu :
Did Viji Manuel switch to AR camp sometime in 90's and thus stopped playing for IR?

Was that the real reason, rather than failing health?

app_engine wrote:Yet to watch this episode but happened to see a link from twitter (courtesy Mayil Senthil ):

FB page of Singer / Composer Srinivas

There's a comment there by one K J Singh:

K J Singh wrote:
He is THE man! He gave me goosebumps everytime he played on that one AR tour. And his chord progressions during the National Anthem, at the end of the concerts, would drive us into orgasmic zones! Much Respect.

So, doubttu :
Did Viji Manuel switch to AR camp sometime in 90's and thus stopped playing for IR?

Was that the real reason, rather than failing health?

that was during his 'unity concert' in early 90s, don't think there was any bad blood since Viji played that original track in Hey Ram, AR/other mds routinely employs musicians from
IR fold like Sax Raja/Raju or even Chennai Strings Orchestra headed by Prabhakar for their concerts/albums.

Awesome show today.  The description of Pazhassi Raja re recording was incredible.  Also, Prabhakar rendered Kanne Kalaimaane with more feeling than Syed.    The contest itself has become kind of a sideshow to the amazing guests.  Not that I am complaining.  

While I don't mean to get worked up over every comment in that Srinivas FB page, I feel a post is necessary on this topic of "musicians not getting enough recognition but MD walks away with all credits" thingy.

(Please ref. the comment of a girl there :

Ya he was amazing !! But did he get the recognition for his talents ?? Cos not many knw him ! Some times ppl lik him get lost wroking with big names ! Ppl get to knw only de music directors ..

)

We keep listening to this quite often.

Especially, when IR happens to be the MD.

So, a political & socialogical response is necessary. That is, other than our regular response of "Oh, they were only executors and not creators - not even colloborators like in the case of other MDs! Every note came from IR" and such. That is a correct and proper response without question but it often ignores the "state of the society" aspect.

So, I want to discuss / highlight a few things in this regard.

1. First of all, what do people mean when they say "recognition"? Throwing the names or photos on movie screen / album cover etc? Or conduct stage programs to felicitate the musicians with ponnAdai / mAlai etc? Or get streets named after them? Cities built with their names? "Viji Manuel puram" "Rahman vAkkam" "Narasimhan pEttai"? Or give them Rajya Sabha MP posts? kalai mAmaNi / Padma award etc?

Come on people, spell it out - WHAT KIND OF recognition is being harped about? (If you only mean Vijay TV shows and awards, that's a different story - rAsA himself does not want them and how do you expect him to arrange similar things for his players?)

2. I fancy myself as a passionate follower of TFM. Yet, I didn't know how one Mr Henry Daniel looked like! Or Mr Joseph Krishna. Or Mr Govardhanam. Also, not many even knew who that "Raja" was whose name showed up as "isai udhavi" for the movie varaprasAdam on screen titles. Or that Raja who assisted in 100+ of G K Venkatesh movies of Kannada - regardless of the fact whether the name popped on movie titles or not.  What kind of recognition was THAT?

Here, we are talking about ACTIVE CONTRIBUTORS and not just brilliant keyboard players. Yes, in many cases, their names often showed up on screen as "udhavi" but not even HC TFM followers have any more idea about them. At the max, only some TFM connoisseurs paid attention to the names and occasionally - thru insider connections - knew something about the roles. Nothing more. The general public didn't even care for the names. Can we call that as "recognition"? Come on, tell me!

3. During pre-IR period, even MD's name wasn't big. Agreed, MSV-TKR got the 'mellisai mannarkal' pattam but what about their songs that got classified as "MGR Song" "Sivaji Song"? And what about pAvam MDs like V Kumar whose works often get classified as "old songs" "60's songs" "70's songs" etc. What about the fact of AIR stations never announcing the name of even MD? (Only film and singer's names got announced and a listener never knew who MD-ed it - let alone knowing who played keebOrdu/ vayalinu / thabElA)!

Just for info -it's a fact I never knew how those mellisai mannarkaL looked like - until after IR arrived in the scene If someone has a doubt as to this fact, please visit "musicalaya.net" and check out the 100's of non-IR album covers there (TF, TeF, MF - choose any language and browse) and check how many of them had MD pictures in 60's-70's. Well, even after the arrival of IR for non-IR albums!

4. How many of you fellows who feel so strongly for recognition of brilliant instrument players pay ANY attention to cinema titles when 100's of technicians' names are shown on the screen? Those who ONLY clap their hands for their favourite artist and ignore the other 100's of names AUTOMATICALLY DISQUALIFY from asking for "recognition" to the Viji Manuels of the world!

BTW, it's a fact that not a single one of us here will qualify - because none of us can vouch for clapping for every name and really seek and find out how qualified (or not) each person is for recognition!

5. We often hear this thingy - that Vaalee's songs got counted by many as Kavingar's songs. (He mimicked or excelled in a similar manner is not the point of discussion - he lost what was really his DUE because of "improper information flow", a system problem - due to which his children got another's name as initials in the minds of people - what a very bad deal!).

Likewise, internet is full of incorrect credits - how many times we come across people telling "shocked to know that XYZ was a GA song! avar ippadikkooda ezhudhi irukkArA, nAn Vairamuththunnu nenachchEn" etc. Such is the state of our system that even documented FACTS don't reach public. In such a system, what is the point in crying "MD only gets mentioned, smart instrument player goes unnoticed"?

OK, I can go on and on...

My point is, MOST PEOPLE BRING THIS UP ONLY TO MALIGN IR!

Such people simply ignore the society around them. A society full of people who glorify whatever is in their minds TODAY and whoever is on the posters TODAY! A society that does not care for facts / figures / true talents etc.

Blame your society! Please stop blaming the poor MD!  Especially rAsA! He is not behind "hiding - iruttaduchchiying" true talents!

BTW, if you are fan of a MD younger than rAsA, thank him! I SAY "THANK HIM"!

At least rAsA made sure that not just his name came to the limelight but the role of a MD will be so well-known! 

That is, in such a DRAMATIC / MEGA way - that even people with <1% of his talents can be in the limelight for years that follow, simply because they switch their tag from "instrumentalist" to "MD" 

Wizzy wrote:

that was during his 'unity concert' in early 90s, don't think there was any bad blood since Viji played that original track in Hey Ram, AR/other mds routinely employs musicians from
IR fold like Sax Raja/Raju or even Chennai Strings Orchestra headed by Prabhakar for their concerts/albums.

nanRi Wizzy, for the details

I was trying to connect the anger with which Ilayathalam fellows responded to Eddie in FB on the Viji Manuel (and instrumental players) topic...

Good to know that it wasn't some "company-changing-going-to-competitor" thingy

Viji Immanuel's impromptu jazzy version of nee pArththa pArvaikku!

WOW!

kaNNil thaNNeer!

Sad to see the man ailing

To add to what Wizzy said, I have seen the making of Thiiruvasagam in symphony's video where IR HIMSELF says he wanted his long time friends and collaborators to have some part in it and that there is a small Carnatic flute part played by Arunmozhi and also a small bit played by Viji Manuel . That was around 2005. And Viji Manuel has not been playing for the last 6 years.  (Let me see if I can dig out that video. If anyone else has seen it, please share the link if you find it) He also says in SS4 that they are such good friends. I personally would not like to over-analyze these things. Sessions musicians playing for other MDs every now and then is not a big deal, even for IR's Asthana keyboardist Viji or Asthana violinists Narasimhan or Prabhakar.

I feel people like Viji Manuel and V.S.Narasimhan deserve more recognition, not in terms of awards or felicitations, but from the general public or at least from IR's ardent fans - we need to acknowledge and celebrate their contributions as much as the singers. Perhaps if IR had performed live concerts in those days, people would have got to see the skill of these people. I do find it unfair that singers steal most of the limelight in India. Well, at least with IR's recent spate of live concerts, we are able to see the virtuosity of Napoleon, Prabhakar etc on display and they are in the spotlight more often...

Yet to see the Prabhakar episode. Will catch it later today...

nanRi fring151, for more details on the IR-Viji Manuel relationship!
(BTW, did you have a chance to read that violent reaction from IlayathaLam FB page - possibly from Karthik Raja - when Eddie tried to talk highly about Viji Manuel?).

I saw the SS4 episode and was amazed at his playing around with the keyboard despite ill-health.

He is physically not well but not "out of touch" at all!

I agree that players should get more recognition from music lovers. Actually, many players from IR team had got some recognition among IRFs (more than people who worked with others) IMO.

Also, IR's contribution in ushering "MD" to the top spot had pushed the lyricist & singers to a much lower status than what it was in the prior era. (Sometimes the hero & heroine also )

That way, he got instrumental music an important spot - along with that, earned the focus to musicians. (To the extent that people "hum" ludes, talk about instruments / arrangements / orchestration etc in ways hitherto never done in TN).

As for recognition to individuals (i.e. awareness of name among music lovers and such), we need to appreciate that it was strictly not IR's duty (that man was busy composing from morn till night and never had time for concerts / shows / interviews etc in his top-spot days).

Also, there were too many players over the years and it was left to chance. Some moved on and got names themselves (ARR / V S Narasimhan, for e.g.) and those who stayed got limited awareness among music lovers. Unfortunate - what else to say

I agree - more shows could have helped this cause those days...but crediting on record covers and things like that wouldn't have made much difference IMO.

Yes app saar. Not IR's duty or his fault. More like lack of awareness and indifference of the listeners. My point is simply that we should highlight and mention the musicians from time to time and also that listeners shouldn't simply give all the credit to the singer. I also mentioned in another thread how this is worse among HFM listeners and most north Indians I know haven't even heard of the names of Sallil Choudhary or Shankar Jaikishen let alone instrumentalists. When they hear Zindagi kaisi ye paheli, the only person that comes to their mind is Rajesh Khanna which is pathetic. 

I found the video of Thiruvasagam's making where Raja talks about giving some of his orchestra members a small part in it. Watch from 6:00 onwards. Viji Manuel has apparently sung a track, not played keyboard as I incorrectly said earlier. Either way, this should end the speculation.

P.S: I haven't seen that FB exchange. Disappointing to hear about it.

Suka's tribute to Viji Manuel

Suka wrote:
வாய் பிளந்து பார்த்துக் கொண்டிருந்தேன். பத்தே நிமிஷத்தில் ரெக்கார்டிங் முடிந்து விட்டது.
‘என்னய்யா! நீ இன்னும் கெளம்பலியா?’ காரில் ஏறும்போது கேட்டார், ராஜா ஸார்.
நான் விஜி மேனுவல் கிளம்பும்வரைக்கும் அங்கேயே இருந்து, அவரையேப் பார்த்துக் கொண்டிருந்தேன். இன்றைக்கு விஜய் டி.வியில் அந்த சண்டாளப் பாவி கீபோர்ட் வாசித்து, எல்லோரும் எழுந்து நின்று கைதட்டி மரியாதை செய்தபோது, பழைய நினைவில் மூழ்கினேன்.

Suka wrote:
முதல் முறையாக இளையராஜாவிடம் பாட வந்த உன்னிக்கிருஷ்ணன், செருப்பைக் கிழற்றிவிட்டு பயபக்தியுடன் ரிக்கார்டிங் தியேட்டருக்குள் நுழைந்தார்.

Why did U Krishnan take vacation during rAsA week? Any instructions?

He proclaimed Viji Manuel as the best keyboardist he knew in India and that video, by the looks of it, was probably for a DD program.  I don't think there's much more he can do.  Now if you read the youtube comments, you will find somebody objecting, "What gives you the right to decide who's best?"  Ermmmm, this is the amount of respect showered on the judgment of a legendary composer in the age of entitlement.

I don't know what is it exactly that people want from IR.  In the same breath that they accuse him of not giving credit to his musicians, they also slam him for his supposedly dictatorial approach and not allowing scope for other musicians to participate in the composing process.  I was reflecting yesterday when voice instructor Vasu appeared on the show - maybe sometimes IR left even the aspect of teaching the songs to the singers to Vasu and the next generation of singers (90s) didn't like that.  Maybe some people want IR to shower personal attention (and compliments) on them, otherwise he has an ego problem.  Maybe he could have done that if he kept searching for song ideas for months and wrapped up 3-4 projects in a year instead of creating an efficient, machine like system of making and recording music to cater to demand.