Balki's next project - Shamitabh

Welcome back music-mafia  Nice write-up. Thanks for your inputs.

I only wish that this will follow the pattern of other landmarks in his journey and we get more of this Funny and Happy Raja.

Well said! 

Ishq-E-Phillum - Piano prelude is so captivating and meditative. Funny and equally thought provoking lyrics. A smooth song with a smooth and steady flow with not much big twists or turns. Like an arrow leaving from a bow only to see its target straight and hits the bulls’ eye. At the same time the tune is not bland, it has the just required depth. For example; when the pallavi starts straight with Ishq Phillum Junoon-E-Phillum hEy Dard Phillum Dhawa-E-Phillum ending with a slight dip in Dua-E-Phillum gives the required soul to the song. I didn’t quite like the yEh-Oh humming but I really loved the Salaam-E-Phillum by the chorus. Similarly I like the charaNam tune and the flow. Especially when the tempo increases during ‘jeena kaise jeena’ part. Salaam-E-phillum connects the charaNam to pallavi beautifully. Suri Jagan’s coarse voice is so good and his rendering is effective and consistent. The short sax play in the first interlude gives a nice and smooth contrast to the ‘hard rock’ kind of pallavi, but it is only short lived for the synth to take control. Second interlude is also full of synth, not much interesting. 

A lite song with main concentration on tune, tempo and singing. Prelude was magnificent. Interludes did not invoke much interest in me (except for the sax piece). Heavy on synth, still it didn’t sound tedious as there is good control. I really love the flow of the song and the subtle twists to ensure it is not bland. I love this song for its simplicity, fun and control, will definitely play for a long time.

Spent the weekend with Shamitabh. Downloaded off of amazon, pretty good quality.

When I first heard piddly I literally prayed that it should be the worst song of the album. And its quite disappointing that it actually is the best song of this album. Tune is pedestrian, but the ludes, the strings/piano and the pauses are so endearing. Not his best but at least one can say that its a Raaja song by listening to it. The signature is present.

What works in the title song is the humming with piano backing in the bridge that connects anupallavi/charanam to pallavi. Beautiful. The prelude and the 2nd interlude shows some promise however the first interlude is very, very unimaginative. Even the way the 2nd interlude ends leaves a lot to be desired.

In Ishq-e-phillum Suraj's spirited singing is a such a joy. The piano solo in the prelude is tremendous. The sax is such a tease. However the loopy beats and a filler like second interlude bring the song down considerably.

The remix is embarrassing to say the least. I mean its listenable and all that, thanks to the inherent beauty of the tune and Shruthi's dynamic singing, but attaching Raaja tag to this is what hurts. Beatboxing, really Raaja? Actually I refuse to believe that Raaja has got anything to do with this. Its gotta be Karthik Raaja.

Lifebouy - Ditto.

Thappad - The charan melody is not bad and like the brief slap bass portions, that brief solo violin, but nothing else works. Beatboxing on this one again.

Raaja in a recent interview mentioned that no director has come up to his 'level' to extract music for him. While its certainly true, Shamitabh is one instance where Raaja has really dumbed down to Balki's [read ad man's] level to score music. Not that these songs are unlistenable or anything, the only problem is they have the Raaja tag attached without his signature for the most part. One can say that this is 'new age Raaja'. I don't agree with that. We have seen him on several occasions [Megha / NEPV] with his signature in tact. And its not that the synth is the only problem. Even in the recent past there were songs that worked in spite of the jarring synth beats (kallaale senju vecha).

One can say this is Raaja's answer to youthu music. Don't we all detest such stuff? Why should Raaja even bother answering them. Totally understand this was Balki's ask but I don't give a f*ck about his vision. Obviously I have great respect towards him as a fellow Raaja fan.

I don't know that beatboxing is any worse than tribal music.  For the life of me, I have never understood, possibly never will, the fascination with tribal music in films/pop albums.  Besides, this is actually kind of time arriving in 2015 compared to the Vikram title track done way back in 1986.  Lifebuoy is barely musical at all.  Rest are all very much Raja genre but dressed up in modern sounds.  It's just a long time since we've had a commercial album from Raja.  I'd take Sha Sha Mi Mi or even Sannatta over Rukku Rukku/Hey Baby...very easily.

Lets just say that 'I' am not a big fan of beatboxing. Raaja has tastefully arranged vocal beats in the past too but this sounds odd for the lack of a better word.

I don't dig his Vijay albums either except Kannukkul Nilavu.

Sannata is no way near to it's original.. It's for the people who have not heard the old one.. And I believe there are many such people. . Balki is trying to do the same.. Avangaluku raja /raja music, yaaru/enna nu katanum...

My rather length take on Shamitabh

https://onlyraja.wordpress.com/2015/01/19/shamitabh-unveiling-of-an-anarchist/

After a second listen, I would no longer call it a massive disappointment. Of course, it is still nothing special. just casual fun and frolic. I also differ from some other takes that it is a hark back to the more carefree, freak-outish 80s songs. "Vikram Vikram" still had some heavy duty basswork and chords. He has infused humour in songs earlier without dumbing down the musical content so much -  machamulla machan, urvasi brahma. 
And of course, in recent times managed to sound hep and contemporary while remaining true to his musical convictions - Kalvane. This, to me sounds like a commercial compromise and nothing more. Wouldn't read too much into it. If it is a hit, I am happy. Maybe that's all that Balki and IR wanted, and who can blame them for it?  At least it keeps the IR brand alive in commercial circuits and youthu minds. Youth, who might at some point feel impelled to give his more serious works a try.

fring151 wrote:After a second listen, I would no longer call it a massive disappointment. Of course, it is still nothing special. just casual fun and frolic. I also differ from some other takes that it is a hark back to the more carefree, freak-outish 80s songs. "Vikram Vikram" still had some heavy duty basswork and chords. He has infused humour in songs earlier without dumbing down the musical content so much -  machamulla machan, urvasi brahma. 
And of course, in recent times managed to sound hep and contemporary while remaining true to his musical convictions - Kalvane. This, to me sounds like a commercial compromise and nothing more. Wouldn't read too much into it. If it is a hit, I am happy. Maybe that's all that Balki and IR wanted, and who can blame them for it?  At least it keeps the IR brand alive in commercial circuits and youthu minds. Youth, who might at some point feel impelled to give his more serious works a try.

As i keep telling the naysayers, hold your judgement till the release of the film.

I don't see what difference that will make. I don't watch Hindi movies anyway and my IR-appreciation is almost 100% independent of the movies they are composed for.

For this movie i think it will.

fring151 wrote:After a second listen, I would no longer call it a massive disappointment. Of course, it is still nothing special. just casual fun and frolic. I also differ from some other takes that it is a hark back to the more carefree, freak-outish 80s songs. "Vikram Vikram" still had some heavy duty basswork and chords. He has infused humour in songs earlier without dumbing down the musical content so much -  machamulla machan, urvasi brahma. 
And of course, in recent times managed to sound hep and contemporary while remaining true to his musical convictions - Kalvane. This, to me sounds like a commercial compromise and nothing more. Wouldn't read too much into it. If it is a hit, I am happy. Maybe that's all that Balki and IR wanted, and who can blame them for it?  At least it keeps the IR brand alive in commercial circuits and youthu minds. Youth, who might at some point feel impelled to give his more serious works a try.

Well, even Sha Sha Mi Mi has great basslines and the chords in the antara especially are lovely.  I thought the main problem was simply the very typical, formulaic melody?   Nothing can touch the 80s anyway but I seem to remember he did have dumbed down songs even in his peak.  Songs I wouldn't want to touch with a barge pole ever again, like Raathiri Nerathu from Anjali (that nightmare song).  Even Pattu Nila from Walter Vetrivel was a pretty boring song.  Hey Unnaithane...etc etc.  It was just the more 'adult' nature of the projects of the last few years, perhaps, that allowed him to not to have to make such songs.   Kalvane is contemporary in an art music kind of way.  milliblog's review of this album vis a vis his labelling Kalvane bizarre says it all.  IR has balanced the more rich Piddly and Ishq E Phillum with the commercial this time.  And I have a feeling we are going to see this movie again.

fring151 wrote:He has infused humour in songs earlier without dumbing down the musical content so much

fring151 wrote:This, to me sounds like a commercial compromise

This! 

For me, the first three songs (which I mentioned already) wins it for me as I was able to see Raja everywhere despite sounding freak, fun and liberal. That's the maximum I can take. For the next three I had these questions. 

1. If I didn't know the music director, whether I would have first of all given my ears to listen? I still remember how much I was against such similar attempts by other music directors and was being very critical about their music. Another personal problem with me is I hate 'rap' genre/music to the core. I don't consider that genre in music. I least expected rap from Maestro even though he had attempted in a very different and nicer way (read vanithamani pre-pallavi).
2. Another biggest asset we were talking about Maestro's songs is the longevity. Even when I listen now and somehow force myself to like it, will I listen the same for the rest of my life?
3. Except for some great moments (read the second interlude of thappad), did I find Raja anywhere else?
4. Regarding sannata, whether the arrangements and the tune were in sync?. I felt the song suffered its flow (sluggish) with this arrangement. Maestro is known for even making ordinary tunes powerful with his arrangements. Here a beautiful tune suffered because of this arrangement. Lyrics sounded too childish to me. May be a different tune and lyric might have worked for me.

All the above questions answered 'No' to me. Still with all this, I am not disappointed as much I was not surprised either as 3/5.5 (55%) songs worked for me.

Sureshji,
I really appreciate your passion and dedication in coming up with a really quick write-up immediately sacrificing your sleep (when you said you would post your views tomorrow). I really liked your views too.

There have been dumbed down songs throughout his career, more so in certain phases, no doubt. I can add dozens more to that list. What is  odd is that for the rare big budget (presumably) movie that has come his way, he should compose such light melodies. It does suggest to me a capitulation, or at least, conscious yielding to the prevailing currents in pursuit of commercial success. Which again is perfectly understandable given how few and far between the hits have been in the last 10 years. Especially both movies and songs becoming hits.

P.S - one inspired stretch in an interlude or "attitude" just don't do it for me. I am always looking for a more wholesome, holistic experience in an IR song.

V_S wrote:
1. If I didn't know the music director, whether I would have first of all given my ears to listen? I still remember how much I was against such similar attempts by other music directors and was being very critical about their music. 

Key point to me. I may be treading dangerous waters here but WTH, whats a forum without a little disagreement and arguments. Thappad and Sannata for e.g. can easily enter a Rahman album. 'I' for example. Been listening [force fed when I have to travel in wife's car. My car is what I call the Raaja nirvaana] to I thanks to wifey/daughter. Thappad is certainly a good fit there. Not thematically or anything, but the sound, in terms of imagination etc. 

Another key point, agree that Raaja had come up with similar songs in the past, however none of them was for such a highly 'visible' film. I am not a fan of those songs either [listed in Sureshji's review]. As such I am not surprised by the songs per se, just disappointed that these songs are part of 'this' film.

And 'I' may be a huge hit musically and if that is what Balki wanted, I wouldn't mind. However doesn't seem like it became a hit up north. Hardly see any reviews about the album. Every Rahman album gets reviewed by the mainstream NI media.

fring151 wrote:There have been dumbed down songs throughout his career, more so in certain phases, no doubt. I can add dozens more to that list. What is  odd is that for the rare big budget (presumably) movie that has come his way, he should compose such light melodies. It does suggest to me a capitulation, or at least, conscious yielding to the prevailing currents in pursuit of commercial success. Which again is perfectly understandable given how few and far between the hits have been in the last 10 years. Especially both movies and songs becoming hits.

Not so much a capitulation as perhaps a pragmatic assessment of what the film needs.  This is why I pointed out the Vijay Raja lite films.  In those films too, Raja was only fleetingly able to impose his stamp on the music because the requirements of a commercial film  constrain his choices.  He has not been dictating music culture for the last nearly two decades, that's what comes out clearly in such films.  Besides, even in the 80s, it was often shallow urban films that had his relatively weaker soundtracks.  Like a Kadhal Parisu might not have bad music but it's pretty weak as far KH-starring Raja soundtracks from the 80s go.  It is in the rural films that he could make the script (lack of) almost irrelevant consistently.  He did that at times in the urban films but not always.  There's a passage in that interview with Bhaskar Chandravarkar where he says we have to give the people what we want.

crimson king wrote:Besides, even in the 80s, it was often shallow urban films that had his relatively weaker soundtracks.

I am not sure if I agree here as Maestro's urban based films has equally thundering soundtracks right from 70s to current even when the subjects did not have depth (shallow). Here is the list of some of urban subject films (left telugu films and few more thamizh and other language films too). Telugu films would form a big list considering their formulaic themes. I have included some good urban based films too along with shallow and formulaic ones. Raja's music was the main reason (excuse) such films existed in first place.

Ilamai oonjaadugirathu
priya
sigappu rOjakkal
sattam en kayyil
aval appadiththaan
azhage unnai aaraathikkiren
moodu pani
tik tik tik
ram lakshman
netrikann
nizhalgal
garjanai
ellam inba mayam
thoongathe thambi thoongathe
panneer pushpangal
johnny
nenjaththai killathe
ullaasa paravaigal
guru
raaja paarvai
eera vizhi kaaviyangal
ninaivellaam nithya
sakalakala vallavan
payanangal mudivathillai
adutha vaarisu
thanga magan
naan sigappu manithan
nallavanukku nallavan
neengal kEttavai
japanil kalyanaraman
kaakki chattai
our kaithiyin diary
thendrale ennai thodu
ithaya kOyil
punnagai mannan
vikram
anand
indran chandran
agni natchaththiram
soorasamharam
sathya
guru sishyan
aboorva sagOththarargal
puthu puthu arthangal
vetri vizha
anjali
michael madana kamarajan
eeramaana rojave
gopura vaasalile
endrum anbudan
innisai mazhai
mannan
singaara vElan
meera
walter vetrivel
uzhaippaLi
honest raj
magalir mattum
priyanka
vietnam colony
raasaiyya
sati leelaavathi
kaathal kavithai
time
thodarum
mumbai express
maayakkannaadi
cheeni kum
mathiya chennai
paa
valmiki
dhoni
nepv
megha

oggarane

It is not about whether it is urban or village based. May be Balki felt that he should be more mainstream (based on the subject) and may be Maestro obliged his request.

I think there are two points to address here. One, that Raja did this purely to get a 'hit' and other that the songs are not having Raja's stamp.

Let's deal with the first part. None of those involved in the film, Balki, Amitabh or Dhanush are in desperate need of an hit. Second, Balki has shown in both 'Cheeni Kum' and 'Paa' that he doesn't go with the trend. In both cases the movies he did were anti-trend if you can call that. Added to it is the fact that unlike other directors Balki is not desperately worried about the success because his livelihood is elsewhere. That is one reason why he does what he wants. He always wants Amitabh in film, he wants PC Sreeram and he wants Raja. He gets all of them. So we can be certain that Balki is not making a trendy movie because he wants a 'hit'. Rather he is making a movie he likes. He is one of the few guys who can afford to do it.

In case of Raja, to even think he would do some music only to get a 'hit' is sacrilege. No one in the history of Indian music has been so wedded to the requirements movie like him. If you need any proof, check out what the director of the Kannada movie 'Mythri' said in a recent interview. He stated, "When I went to Raja he didn't treat me like, "Oh this is a new guy, I must advice him". Rather he listened to me carefully and after each song asked me if it met my requirements". That has been Raja's attitude all along. So if another Hindi director would approach Raja now and ask him to do a movie with Hindustani classical touch, Raja would do it happily. 

Another clue that Balki wanted these type of songs for the movie and that these were not done to ensure connect with 'current generation' comes from the amazingly consistent sound across all songs. The use of synthesizer has been deliberate. Balki is someone who can afford a real orchestra is needed, like something that Gautham gave Raja. (You can understand a Sundarrajan not being able to afford a full fledged orchestra in recent times). So it must have been a well thought plan to go with the synthesizer and with the sound that Raja produced. If the movie had needed a grand orchestra Raja would have asked for it and Balki would have given it to him readily.

The consistency is not just in the music but all across. The lyrics are similar. Like how the music takes the synth and the funky route and not the deeply melodic orchestral route, the lyrics too take the same route. So you have lyrics based on Lifebouy, lyrics stringing together singer's names and lyrics which give a Thappad. The same attitude is displayed by the singers as well. So the entire album is a well thought out one with a deliberate focus on the sound and attitude. When Balki says he considers this as one of Raja's best albums he is probably speaking the truth. For him as a director, the sound of this album has already communicated the attitude of the film. We know what we should expect from the film.

In essence I would say that any criticism that Raja is doing this to appear 'trendy' or that he is doing it for a 'hit' can be dismissed casually.

Coming to the other criticism of this not sounding like Raja, that is a valid criticism. I understand Nerd when he says that these songs would fit into an album like 'I' and I understand Vijay when he says he hates rap. All I say again is that these are songs 'made' for this particular movie. In case of movies with popular stars all types of songs are made: funky, rap, love duets, melodies, kuththu etc. with the hope that one of these would click. (Check out songs of 'Yennai Arindhal') In this movie though there is no such attempt at all. There is no attempt to get in a slow melody, a bangra, an item number song or a melodious duet. That is why I say the songs are subservient to the movie. The 'touch' of Raja is in the fact that he never loses the tight control on the tune anywhere. When he sets up a pace, he maintains it throughout. He lever lets it sag.

crimson king wrote: I'd take Sha Sha Mi Mi or even Sannatta over Rukku Rukku/Hey Baby...very easily.

I don't think anyone (even the harshest critic of Shamitabh) can have a difference of opinion on this

Correct kind of songs to compare

Raaga_Suresh wrote:My rather length take on Shamitabh

https://onlyraja.wordpress.com/2015/01/19/shamitabh-unveiling-of-an-anarchist/

Exactly..freaked out raja like someone mentioned elsewhere..immediately it brought "maayakannadi" where cheran asks raja give me a fast beat song..also sha mi takes me back to nazia hassan 1980 boom boom ..also the piano lude going along with humming of sha mi reminds me of "that" piano lude from guruvayarappa "pudhu pudhu arthangal" the starting piano which goes fast before it stops waiting for audio cd to get more clear version..i downloaded from google music acceptable quality..vinyl will be better..but that is only a dream

V_S wrote:

crimson king wrote:Besides, even in the 80s, it was often shallow urban films that had his relatively weaker soundtracks.

I am not sure if I agree here as Maestro's urban based films has equally thundering soundtracks right from 70s to current even when the subjects did not have depth (shallow). Here is the list of some of urban subject films (left telugu films and few more thamizh and other language films too). Telugu films would form a big list considering their formulaic themes. I have included some good urban based films too along with shallow and formulaic ones. Raja's music was the main reason (excuse) such films existed in first place.

Ilamai oonjaadugirathu
priya
sigappu rOjakkal
sattam en kayyil
aval appadiththaan
azhage unnai aaraathikkiren
moodu pani
tik tik tik
ram lakshman
netrikann
nizhalgal
garjanai
ellam inba mayam
thoongathe thambi thoongathe
panneer pushpangal
johnny
nenjaththai killathe
ullaasa paravaigal
guru
raaja paarvai
eera vizhi kaaviyangal
ninaivellaam nithya
sakalakala vallavan
payanangal mudivathillai
adutha vaarisu
thanga magan
naan sigappu manithan
nallavanukku nallavan
neengal kEttavai
japanil kalyanaraman
kaakki chattai
our kaithiyin diary
thendrale ennai thodu
ithaya kOyil
punnagai mannan
vikram
anand
indran chandran
agni natchaththiram
soorasamharam
sathya
guru sishyan
aboorva sagOththarargal
puthu puthu arthangal
vetri vizha
anjali
michael madana kamarajan
eeramaana rojave
gopura vaasalile
endrum anbudan
innisai mazhai
mannan
singaara vElan
meera
walter vetrivel
uzhaippaLi
honest raj
magalir mattum
priyanka
vietnam colony
raasaiyya
sati leelaavathi
kaathal kavithai
time
thodarum
mumbai express
maayakkannaadi
cheeni kum
mathiya chennai
paa
valmiki
dhoni
nepv
megha

oggarane

It is not about whether it is urban or village based. May be Balki felt that he should be more mainstream (based on the subject) and may be Maestro obliged his request.

I am not saying ALL his soundtracks for urban shallow films tend to be weak (and weak here is a very relative word anyway, since we are talking about Raja).  I am saying more of his weaker soundtracks are distributed towards the urban films vis a vis the rural.  Even your list bears out this.  Oggarane is not nearly of the same level as an NEPV for instance.  Likewise, singara velan not of the same level as Appu Raja, so on and so forth.  

In any case, if you include Oggarane as a strong soundtrack, then we don't have much of an argument in the first place.  By that standpoint, I'd consider Shamitabh as positively awesome.  Actually I more or less do think it is.  Two great songs and one pretty good song with very strong singing, I will take that.  Esp after his health issues, any good soundtrack is a bonus for me.

app_engine wrote:

crimson king wrote: I'd take Sha Sha Mi Mi or even Sannatta over Rukku Rukku/Hey Baby...very easily.

I don't think anyone (even the harshest critic of Shamitabh) can have a difference of opinion on this

Correct kind of songs to compare

Yeah, just saying he's not going to deliver a Ninaivellam Nithya every time.  I guess NEPV/Megha have stoked expectations.

Raaga_Suresh wrote:Another clue that Balki wanted these type of songs for the movie and that these were not done to ensure connect with 'current generation' comes from the amazingly consistent sound across all songs. 

I wouldn't say it IS a consistent sound.  I go along with Vijay there that the album kind of splits right down the middle.  Up to Piddly, there is the contemporary flavour but with Raja's distinct stamp.  From Sannatta, this link gets broken off (ironic, given it is a rehash of his own composition).  Those next three songs may be confused with another composer if one is not already aware he is listening to an IR soundtrack.  

As for integrity, I don't doubt IR's integrity but I am less inclined to extend that benefit to doubt to Balki.  Sure, he has a plush job in the ad world but that by itself doesn't mean he may not be interested in coming up with a hit.  I think Sannatta is an interesting exercise from a creative stand point even if as a listener, it doesn't offer much to keep me interested for several listens.  But the whiff of trendiness in that remix as well as the lyrics throughout suggests Balki might be playing a different game.  And if Balki wants commercial, Raja will have to deliver commercial.

IR says in ToI interview that unlike Balki's previous films, he hasn't "reused" any of his old songs.

Does it mean Balki simply got "permission" from IR to get the Asaya kAththula...re-done by Lintas ad gumbal?
(Serious doubt as I struggle to find anything IR about sannAttA, except the Johny "tune")...