Discussions on ARR

ஆயிரம் இருந்தாலும். கே.எம். இசைக்குழு ஒரு பாராட்டப்பட வேண்டிய முயற்சி.
ஆனால் அதை இசைத்துணுக்குகளை அள்ளி வீசும் அட்சய பாத்திரமாக வித்தையில்லாத
இசையமைப்பாளர்கள் மாற்றி விடக்கூடாது. அதற்கு தீனி போடும் வகையில் தங்கள் இசையறிவை 
செறிவாக்கிக்கொள்ள வேண்டும்.

ஓ காதல் கண்மணி பார்த்தவர்கள் சொல்லுங்கள்.
மௌவ்லா பாடல் எந்த சூழ்நிலையில் படத்தில் வருகிறது என்று?
படத்தை நான் டெண்ட்கொட்டாவில் பார்க்க 1 மாதமாவது ஆகும்..

jaiganesh wrote:ஓ காதல் கண்மணி பார்த்தவர்கள் சொல்லுங்கள்.
மௌவ்லா பாடல் எந்த சூழ்நிலையில் படத்தில் வருகிறது என்று?
படத்தை நான் டெண்ட்கொட்டாவில் பார்க்க 1 மாதமாவது ஆகும்..

Heroine, architecture student, visits a Mosque in Ahmedabad. andha soozhalukku poruthamAvE varudhu. Kadaisila kAdhalana kadai kaN pArvaiyAla pAppA. But 95% of the song goes into the beauty of capturing the soul of the Mosque.

while "mana mana mana mental..." song is the one that is a hot fav among today's youth, my pick is the dreamy and westernish "parandhu sellavaa". But when Rahman unexpectedly introduces "Abheri" elemnts, the song acquires a new dimension and simply blows my mind.
Chitra has bagged a beautiful Behaag in "malarggaL kEttEn " after a lo....ng wait for a noteworthy number.

fatwA for ARR it seems

app_engine wrote: fatwA for ARR it seems

I didn't mention but this was something I was thinking will happen when I heard about this movie.
One just has to assume the outfit is a attention seeking powerless one with no intention on any concrete steps on the fatwa.

How is the music for this movie, btw? Anyone heard?

I am expecting it to be good since this is Rahman's home ground, sort of. He is very good with this type of spiritualism, isn't he? (although I might be mistaken in assuming sufiana has a continual link back to Muhammed's times and philosophy). But what I am sure is that if he does a sufiana type bkg score, it will be taken as authentic since well sufiana is "muslim", isn't it?

So, whether or not authentic, I am expecting that it will be giving a sufian high(a la khwaja mere khawaja) and therefore etched in musical history

plum wrote:
One just has to assume the outfit is a attention seeking powerless one with no intention on any concrete steps on the fatwa.

At the minimum, some aval for the media.

Look at this one:
http://arynews.tv/en/ar-rahman-caves-in-to-fatwa-pressure-singer-cancels-new-delhi-concert/

plum wrote:I am expecting it to be good since this is Rahman's home ground, sort of. He is very good with this type of spiritualism, isn't he? (although I might be mistaken in assuming sufiana has a continual link back to Muhammed's times and philosophy). But what I am sure is that if he does a sufiana type bkg score, it will be taken as authentic since well sufiana is "muslim", isn't it?

So, whether or not authentic, I am expecting that it will be giving a sufian high(a la khwaja mere khawaja) and therefore etched in musical history

Yeah even I genuinely expect the music to be very good. No review yet on the music but there was a Guardian review praising the film:

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/aug/28/muhammad-review-majid-majidi

And yeah, group seems to be an attention seeking one. Rahman's answered their fatwa in his FB page. Quite a classy answer to these religious nutjobs.

And yes, sufiana is Muslim but it does not date to Muhammad's time (roughly postdates Muhammad's time by 3-4 centuries). Sufiana is typically an Indian hybrid of Islamic tenets married to Indian culture in India (though there are different versions to Sufism across the world). For instance, there are samAdhis (Dargahs as they call them) to Sufi saints in India and people pray there, which you wouldn't normally associate with the orthodox version of Islam where they only pray to Allah in a Mosque (Masjid as they call them). To the extent that the Wahhabi version of Islam outlaws sufiana. A collegemate friend of mine (Muslim obviously) from MSc did not like Khwaja Mere Khawja. Not for the music but for the lyrics and content that praises a Sufi saint Khwaja Moinudeen Chisti and not Allah. Same bloke loved Maulah Mere Maulah from Delhi 6 since it was a generic (lyrically speaking) ode to Allah (Lord) aka Maula (master). Both songs however incorporate elements of Sufi music (as an aside, neither are my ARR favorites wrt Sufi music though I like Arziyan a lot more. My most favorite is Noor-Un-Ala from Meenaxi and Piya Haji Ali from Fiza). As an aside, not many composers in the film world *get* sufi music like Rahman does. idha naan kooda sollala. Gulzar solarAr. Most just incorporate *words* like Khuda, Maula and Noor and call it sufi *music*. Sufi music also ideally surrenders lyrically to an almighty or higher power. Chaiyya Chaiyya from Dil Se, though a male-female kuthu song, incorporates elements of surrender which can be spiritually called Sufi music.

Sufism also in India you know has elements of bhakti, in that Sufi mystics were able to comfort Hindus and Hindus pray in the shrines of Haji Ali across Mumbai (like Sabarimalai for Hindus where all religions can pray). However, Sufism in general is more spiritual (though this might be disputed by orthodox Muslims). Sufism is also more liberal than orthodox Islam (*wink wink* this also explains, in addition to Vande Mataram, as to why Rahman and his sufism finds ready acceptance among Hindutva Hindus and Modiji bhakts *nod nod*)

However, doing sufiana for this might be edgy IMO. Iran is mostly Shia and they are relatively more relaxed compared to the Sunnis wrt depicting Muhammad and with music, etc and it wouldn't be a problem there. Sunnis, the Wahhabi version especially, considers music adhamam  (not preferable i.e.). But then, the Sunnis in Iran (though a minority) would not exactly be thrilled if the music incorporates sufiana, not to mention the rest of the middle east (mostly Sunni except Iraq in addition to Iran) which itself I'm guessing could be ambivalent to depicting Muhammad on screen. But then, I'd really be thrilled (from a contrarian pov) if Rahman indeed incorporates sufiana into the script (Muhammad and sufiana like I said do not gel in terms of historic continuity though Sufi folks could dispute that too saying spiritualism as a tenet cannot be bound by time), incorporates Sufi saints in the vazhi of Islam (long shot, won't happen) does not make it jut out but musically elevates the film. Now *that* would be musical rebellion in the face of orthodoxy. However, sufiana music by itself may not jut out so much though it will be anachronistic historically speaking. But hey, artistic license

jaiganesh wrote:ஆயிரம் இருந்தாலும். கே.எம். இசைக்குழு ஒரு பாராட்டப்பட வேண்டிய முயற்சி.
ஆனால் அதை இசைத்துணுக்குகளை அள்ளி வீசும் அட்சய பாத்திரமாக வித்தையில்லாத
இசையமைப்பாளர்கள் மாற்றி விடக்கூடாது. அதற்கு தீனி போடும் வகையில் தங்கள் இசையறிவை 
செறிவாக்கிக்கொள்ள வேண்டும்.

U mean sunshine orchestra or KM Conservatory aka Music school?! KMC(music school) is very costly, fees are in lakhs and others like Swarnabhoomi etc are not that much costly. Seems KMC teaches instrument playing, and also lotsa tech needed for music. not about composition etc. so i dunno what use it will be of. and also, while u can see other music school students are free to play/perform/practice/analayse, and thus praise and learn about ANY composer, they are natural to be inclined a bit more towards Raja while KMC will naturally behave like there is  a soft ban on Rajas music and it will be more of ARR music bajanai.

Also, KMC has been in existence since 2008(even much b4?) and till date whats the net result u see in industry or elsewhere?!? its mostly a place to show off that rahman also does shares his experience(?) to next gen blah blah


And then this Sunshine orchestra, actually whats new in this, from the already existing KMC? அங்கயே WCM based வாத்தியப்பயிற்சி தானே தர்ராங்க?! So, this sunshine blah is a new name to get some publikutty. and even if a quality WCM players set emerges from there, we need to see how great they are already from the other greats, like NCPA Mumbai or the existing troupe of Raja's prasad studio. And even then, they again have to prove that they are on par with the super experienced master players in Budapest and London and also much affordable! இதெல்லாம் நடக்குற கதைன்றீங்க?!

really? if so then it is rather sad..

Drunkenmunk wrote:

plum wrote:I am expecting it to be good since this is Rahman's home ground, sort of. He is very good with this type of spiritualism, isn't he? (although I might be mistaken in assuming sufiana has a continual link back to Muhammed's times and philosophy). But what I am sure is that if he does a sufiana type bkg score, it will be taken as authentic since well sufiana is "muslim", isn't it?

So, whether or not authentic, I am expecting that it will be giving a sufian high(a la khwaja mere khawaja) and therefore etched in musical history

Yeah even I genuinely expect the music to be very good. No review yet on the music but there was a Guardian review praising the film:

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/aug/28/muhammad-review-majid-majidi

And yeah, group seems to be an attention seeking one. Rahman's answered their fatwa in his FB page. Quite a classy answer to these religious nutjobs.

And yes, sufiana is Muslim but it does not date to Muhammad's time (roughly postdates Muhammad's time by 3-4 centuries). Sufiana is typically an Indian hybrid of Islamic tenets married to Indian culture in India (though there are different versions to Sufism across the world). For instance, there are samAdhis (Dargahs as they call them) to Sufi saints in India and people pray there, which you wouldn't normally associate with the orthodox version of Islam where they only pray to Allah in a Mosque (Masjid as they call them). To the extent that the Wahhabi version of Islam outlaws sufiana. A collegemate friend of mine (Muslim obviously) from MSc did not like Khwaja Mere Khawja. Not for the music but for the lyrics and content that praises a Sufi saint Khwaja Moinudeen Chisti and not Allah. Same bloke loved Maulah Mere Maulah from Delhi 6 since it was a generic (lyrically speaking) ode to Allah (Lord) aka Maula (master). Both songs however incorporate elements of Sufi music (as an aside, neither are my ARR favorites wrt Sufi music though I like Arziyan a lot more. My most favorite is Noor-Un-Ala from Meenaxi and Piya Haji Ali from Fiza). As an aside, not many composers in the film world *get* sufi music like Rahman does. idha naan kooda sollala. Gulzar solarAr. Most just incorporate *words* like Khuda, Maula and Noor and call it sufi *music*. Sufi music also ideally surrenders lyrically to an almighty or higher power. Chaiyya Chaiyya from Dil Se, though a male-female kuthu song, incorporates elements of surrender which can be spiritually called Sufi music.

Sufism also in India you know has elements of bhakti, in that Sufi mystics were able to comfort Hindus and Hindus pray in the shrines of Haji Ali across Mumbai (like Sabarimalai for Hindus where all religions can pray). However, Sufism in general is more spiritual (though this might be disputed by orthodox Muslims). Sufism is also more liberal than orthodox Islam (*wink wink* this also explains, in addition to Vande Mataram, as to why Rahman and his sufism finds ready acceptance among Hindutva Hindus and Modiji bhakts *nod nod*)

However, doing sufiana for this might be edgy IMO. Iran is mostly Shia and they are relatively more relaxed compared to the Sunnis wrt depicting Muhammad and with music, etc and it wouldn't be a problem there. Sunnis, the Wahhabi version especially, considers music adhamam  (not preferable i.e.). But then, the Sunnis in Iran (though a minority) would not exactly be thrilled if the music incorporates sufiana, not to mention the rest of the middle east (mostly Sunni except Iraq in addition to Iran) which itself I'm guessing could be ambivalent to depicting Muhammad on screen.

Yeah pretty much this is what I meant. Of course, I know sufiana has got nothing to do with Mohemmad.

I don't have issues with the artistic licence if it is taken here.
But that is what gives the wahabi units the locus standi to issue fatwas.

Fundamentally, perhaps, the director also tried to give a sufistic type of msg (spiritual continuity of mohemmad to sufiana etc) which is why these outfits are reacting the way they are.
All this is speculation but I think these outfits also possibly have a hint from their contacts/sponsors in S Arabia wherever. And for that reason, I also think that sufi is the way Rahman went. Let's wait and see.
(We know Rahman is big on world peace and now we know he was also disturbed by what he thinks is misrepresentation of mohemmad's principles both by fundamentalists quoting his name for their acts and by critics who blame him for the followers' heinous acts. Perhaps, Majidi had a message that presents Mohemmad as messenger of peace and that is why the radicals don't like it. In that case, I am able to understand why he chose rahman and why rahman would have been thrilled with it)

The most striking aspect to me - and as suresh would say, it is my nature to strike these aspects - is the first sentence of Rahman's "classy" retort.

For most part, it feels heartfelt and sincere. However, one line disturbs me and it is the first line

"I didn't direct or produce the movie, I only did the music"
"saar naan avana adikkala saar, naan veruma kaala mattum dhaan pudichukitten, majidi dhaan avana adichaan"

There is a hidden message here that "if you found it offensive, then know ye that I didn't conceive of this offensive msg. I just did music. I am not responsible for the ideas in the movie"

In the excellent moving message he gave, this sentiment is out of place.

plum wrote:The most striking aspect to me - and as suresh would say, it is my nature to strike these aspects - is the first sentence of Rahman's "classy" retort.

For most part, it feels heartfelt and sincere. However, one line disturbs me and it is the first line

"I didn't direct or produce the movie, I only did the music"
"saar naan avana adikkala saar, naan veruma kaala mattum dhaan pudichukitten, majidi dhaan avana adichaan"

There is a hidden message here that "if you found it offensive, then know ye that I didn't conceive of this offensive msg. I just did music. I am not responsible for the ideas in the movie"

In the excellent moving message he gave, this sentiment is out of place.

Well caught.

Basically... https://twitter.com/dagalti/status/643470851686273024 

ARR's by now every word predictable "heart to heart" chat with "The Hindu", few days ago. Here also the "hands thrown up" , aiyO naan music mattumE pOttEn. vEra onnumE ppannala  shirk for a question on Mohammed and then the 
"puLichhu pOna" ,  vice-free, self discipline blah of Raja that inspires him.
hm... maRandhu poi kooda avar music pathi oru vArtha...

high tek man AR's live performance 

http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/6/10721532/intel-ces-2016-keynote-jai-ho

Abstracting musical instruments out of live performances is not my favorite thing that a musical artist has ever attempted.

Like, there is a very obnoxious quality about this idea to me — you can almost hear the Intel executive next to you chirping, "See?? Music is all just information, too! Dance to the 1s and 0s, monkey. Dance!"

do lemon rice TN audience get to see this high tek performance 

kangalil enna eeramo paatai kaekum podhellam.. idhae madhirii oru old paatu kaetu irukaene endru thondrum.. paatu nyabagam varavilali....

indru yedherchaiyaga.. youtube parkum podhu.. thedi kondu irundha paatu kidaithadhu..... ARR copy enbadhal... idhu MSV music endru ninaikiren.....


Neeril oru thamarai......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9bXzwrdbnw&list=PL4SxysG_X0Wm-AlpRZL5QsJ3M37XN7STO&index=132

kangalil enna eeramo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTpbcW7AHuM

Mrs. YGP on AR

It was sheer coincidence that a noble gesture he carried out while felicitating the stage artistes very elegantly reflected the title of his concert (Nenje Ezhu). Not only does his music kindle the soul, but his acts of spontaneity on stage spring surprises that are heart-warming.

The Oscar awardee, who has mesmerised millions of people across the globe, knelt down beside me with such simplicity, and requested me to join him in giving away the award to Suppuni, who has been with UAA for the past 45 years. It was that spontaneous gesture of Rahman that made Suppuni forget his short stature and feel at ease on stage. 

 new feather in AR's humility cap

In my long years of experience, I have never come across an international celebrity exhibit such an act of humility to put the recipient of an award at ease. To make his act appear normal, he continued to give the next awardee the trophy going down on his knees… so much so that he too had to receive his trophy bending down on his knees!

 

paavam ennama dum katti erukaar

Surya and ARR

ஒரு சின்ன குழந்தை கடைக்குள் சென்றது. அக்கடையில் நிறைய சாக்லெட், கேண்டீஸ் உள்ள பாட்டில்கள் இருந்தன. அம்மாவும் பின்னாடியே வந்தார்கள். குழந்தையைப் போய் எடுத்துக் கொள் என்றார்கள். ஆனால் குழந்தை எடுக்கவே இல்லை. கடைக்காரரும் சொல்கிறார் ஆனால் அக்குழந்தை எடுக்கவில்லை. இறுதியாக கடைக்காரர் தன்னுடைய கையால் நிறைய சாக்லெட் கொடுத்தவுடன் அக்குழந்தை தன்னுடைய சட்டையில் வாங்கிக் கொண்டது.

அந்த அம்மா "என்ன நீ.. நான் தான் எடுத்துக்கோனு சொல்றேன்ல. பிறகு ஏன் எடுக்கவில்லை? " என்று குழந்தையிடம் கேட்டார்கள். உடனே அக்குழந்தை "என்னுடைய கை ரொம்ப சிறியது, அந்த கடைக்காரர் கை ரொம்ப பெரியது. அவர் எடுத்துக் கொடுத்தால் நிறைய வரும். அதனால் தான் நான் எடுக்கவில்லை" என்றது. அதே போல தான் நாம் கடவுளிடம் கேட்டால் ரொம்ப சின்னதாக கேட்டு விடுவோம். ஆனால் கடவுளாக கொடுத்தால் பெரியதாக கொடுத்தார். அதே போல தான் ரஹ்மான் சாரிடம் போய் இசை எல்லாம் கேட்க முடியாது. நாம் கேட்பதை விட அவர் நிறைய கொடுப்பார். இந்த படத்துக்காக அவர் நிறைய உழைத்திருக்கிறார்.

நான் ஒரு தற்குறி, அதனால் தான் என்னைச் சுற்றி எப்போதுமே அறிவாளிகளை வைத்து கொள்ள முயற்சி செய்வேன். ரஹ்மான் சாரிடம் சேட் மசாலா, ஆன்மிகம் உள்ளிட்ட அனைத்தைப் பற்றியும் பேசலாம். நான் அவரிடம் நிறைய கற்றுக் கொண்டேன்.

Listened to 24 songs, I liked three songs; naan un, kaalam en kaadhali and punnagayE. Aaraaro is also ok. What I liked about the songs is the flow in the tune and lyric of some lines. In recent offerings I found there was not much flow in the tune, sometimes let off by the tunes being bland and the genres employed (which I don't like). I liked this soundtrack after Ranjhanaa.

In Naan un the starting guitar portion remind me of en gaanam tune of EVK, but it was just for few seconds. Beautiful tune, except it could have been in the same pitch, except it goes very high at the end of charaNam to remind me of pop hangover. The first interlude solo violin is the highlight of the song. Nice to see live instruments getting better. The starting line நான் உன் அழகினிலே தெய்வம் உணருகிறேன் is a lovely line, but it is a usual phrase and expression of love, but when it is sung in anu-pallavi/charaNam to connect to pallavi like this:
உன் முகம் தாண்டி மனம் சென்று உனை பார்த்ததால்
உன் இதயத்தின் நிறம் பார்த்ததால்
நான் உன் அழகினிலே தெய்வம் உணருகிறேன்
Aha! the song and love gets more meaning.

If this is better, imagine this:
உலகம் அகச்சிவப்பால் ஆனதே உனது நாணம் சிந்தியே
உறவே அதிலே நான் வசிப்பதால்

Beautifully done by Madan Karky and ARR. The song has the sahAna saaral feel.

The only amusing part of the song is Arijit's singing and pronunciation. He was struggling. He sings வானம் கனவ பூமி கனவ instead of வானம் கனவு பூமி கனவு. I can't stop laughing LOL.

Kaalam en kaadhali is an energetic and a very catchy song. I again like the flow in the song, especially till the first charaNam. Second charaNam is so so. Not a big fan of hip-hop, but it was done nicely with backing guitars and funkiness. Again this line is beautifully written by VM. சந்திர சூரியனை கூலியாக கேட்பேன் உலகத்தின் வாழ்வை எல்லாம் ஒற்றை நாளில் வாழ யோசிப்பேன் . The யோசிப்பேன் sneaks into the tune hurriedly with the hip-hop signature.

punnagayE is another free-flowing song, except it had some horrible diction errors (முல்லும்  ஹிந்தோலம், விலங்குகல், பறவைகல், கனவுகல்). The big ள is out of question it seems. Again some beautiful lines; இது கடவுள் எழுதும் கவிதை வரிகள்தானோ, மழை துளியால் மாலை கட்டுவேன். In மழை துளியால் மாலை கட்டுவேன், the sandham does not have space for மாலை and it sounds like மழை துளியால் மலை கட்டுவேன். This song evokes some from 90s especially Sangamam. Nice song.

Aaaraaro is ok, it has western country pop flavor. This one line by Madan Karky tells the crux of the song beautifully. உன் ஓர் இதயத் துடிப்பினிலே என் காலம் அடங்கிடும்

Having said that, there are far more ordinary lines too, still the soundtrack has got that flow and lyrical flourish. I am listening to the first three songs for the past few days. The soundtrack is consistent with the film theme.

So not just Ilayaraja, Rahman too struggles to transpose his classics to the contemporary era:



Let classics be.  Let composers strive to come up with memorable ORIGINALS. Blame it on Balki!

Not just him, Rajesh Roshan has also remixed Saara Zamana. It is kind of bewildering when the composer himself veers far away from the spirit of the original.

The Acham Yendbadhu Madamaiyada (AYM) car was pull over by the music cop with AR Rahman driving the car with GVM as the passenger.

Cop: How are you doing today?

AR: Great, officer

Cop: License, ownership and insurance please

AR: Here you go, officer

Cop: Mr. AR Rahman, your car was swerving wildly, did you sleep on the wheel? Our radar shows that you have been not keeping lanes properly with this car

AR: This is a hydrogen propelled, cloud enabled, high tech car with terrific controls. I was trying to get the best out of this new gadgetry

Cop: We are committed to the safety of the community and our roads. From your license, it appears that you are 50. We notice that 70 year olds are driving quite well. You need to be a bit more careful. You appear like a fine man. Unfortunately, I have to fine you today. I am sure you know your rights. Do you want me to explain that to you?

AR: No need Sir

Cop: (looking at the passenger) How are you doing Sir, your name?

GVM: Gautam Vasudev Menon

Cop: I have seen you drive around with other drivers, the name escapes me, Harris, right?

GVM: Yes

Cop: He was an OK driver. Why do you keep changing drivers?

GVM: When I get new high tech cars, I want drivers familiar with the gadgetry to drive my cars

Cop: Safety first, I do not recollect fining Harris. Drive safe gentleman. Have a nice day!

 

 PS: I could not stand this movie, its songs and BGM after the first 22 minutes. I went on to write this like the famous Canadian comic show '22 minutes'

Quote from an article about Minmini:

Then came that debilitating blow. Minmini lost her voice. She was even unable to speak. “Those few years were terrible. In fact, I knew it was coming but never thought it would be so serious. I remember how I gradually began losing confidence, cancelling my schedules fearing loss for those who had arranged everything. It was at this time that Rahman called and said he had a song for me. He tried to reassure me that he was not going to lose anything even if I could not sing for the studio was his. I went and found that singing was a far cry for me. All that I managed was to blurt out the words. Rahman recorded everything and it was his brilliance that made it into a song. That one ‘Pachakkili paadum…’ for the film ‘Karuthamma’ was the last I recorded. After that it was silence.” 


So Minmini couldn't sing when she recorded Pachakkilli?    Another tribute to Rahman's incredible recording/ sound engineering skills, then.

I saw the movie 'Kaatru Veliyidai' and this is not about the movie. Nor is it about the songs. It is about the BG Score.


I could clearly identify AR reusing 'Ay Hairatein' from Guru and the 'Nahin Samne' from Taal in the BG Score.


This is not to allege that he is recycling somebody's tunes. After all, it is his own tunes. However, for a composer who is held so high among the masses, this is not very encouraging.


Does he run out of ideas as he has given all his energies to the songs for his mentor?


I expect something better than this from AR. Not that the BG Score was great. At least, he should not recycle.


He must remember one more thing. When KB's men tried to recycle the old KB movie tunes to PPA, Ilayaraja got inflamed and that drove the wedge between these two biggies, which resulted in AR's rise.


He must at least learn a lesson not to recycle BG Scores with old tunes. That brings him down by several notches.