Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  crimson king on Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:24 am

Raaga_Suresh wrote:
You are right that sound attracts a lot of youngsters and many are not keyed into Raja's music. At the same time, it is also true that good sound / loops can be easily replicated. This is what is happening. I follow quite a few youngsters on twitter as well as in real life and what I see is that Rahman's music is not held up the same way it was in the early years. Now the youngsters in Tamil are onto Harris, Yuvan, Anirudh etc while there are enough MDs in Hindi whose music is hit and Rahman has just become one more MD there. I listen to the FM Radio (Hindi) regularly and for the couple of hours that I listen, there will atmost be one Rahman song if you are lucky. Else every hit the past 5 yrs is by some other MD. All of them have the 'sound'.

The other part is about where these youngsters are from. If there are urban based or outside of India, Raja will take some time to grow. But as P_R mentioned once on twitter, Raja's music is still part of all youngsters in Tamilnadu towns. The number of youngsters that turn up whenever Raja visits any other town is phenomenal. So depending on the demographics we may come to a conclusion as to whether Raja is popular or not.

The bottomline according to me is this; While other producing great sounding 'sound' Raja produces great sounding music. That is the difference and that is why Raja's music will be (and is being) embraced by the discerning youth of every generation.

I think the relatively low no. of songs of ARR played on the radio is also down to two factors:

a) ARR's low no. of scores per se per year.  If he does only two or three films per year, how will they crowd out radio.  Even by his slow standards, he was doing a lot of work in the early-mid 90s.  

b) Radio today only plays current songs for the most part, i.e., songs from the current year or at the most the last year.  I see a drop in popularity of ARR's latest songs (i.e. Tere mast mast do nain gets more plays even today than say Naadaan Parindey) but that may not reflect the nostalgia value of his 90s work.  In the 90s, even TV channels used to play a lot more music at regular intervals and it was easier to get a picture of the staying power of different songs.  Now, it's all about right here right now. 

I cannot comment on the popularity of IR's music in rural TN.  I have only observed the trend in cities and in cities, most people seem to listen to music at a very casual level.   I do think people who are interested in musicality will be drawn to IR's music if they are introduced to it but that is a relatively small group.  I have found even people who are supposed to be more 'serious' listeners reacting unfavourably to the RECORDING of IR songs and though many such people are no longer into ARR's work, they have a high opinion of his early-mid 90s work.  

In India, film music is a pervasive influence on overall music culture, so word gets around about good music, at least used to in the old system of distribution.  But I could go on naming many artists in the West who were talented and creative and never got their due because of lack of promotion.  So I don't think it is a given that a great artist's work will live on.  That used to be the case in the classical age but in the pop age or the age of the music business, out of sight is out of mind.  So a lot depends on perpetual word of mouth promotion of IR's music.  I think the spate of concerts in India and abroad could go a long way in keeping his music alive for say the next two decades or so.  Beyond that and (heaven forbid) after he's gone, who knows.   Up here in Mumbai, there is incessant R D Burman hype as if Hindi music started with him and the work of Naushad Ali or Roshan gets a wide berth.  I hope that won't happen in IR's case but as I said, that depends on a certain amount of promotion.  How many industry people will be IR-files or ARR-files when they are both done will play an important role in this (just as people like Sanjay Leela Bhansali played a big role in reinforcing the RDB hype by constantly calling him the greatest as if it's some self evident truth).

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  crimson king on Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:28 am

fring151 wrote:Interesting that you bring this up. To look at it from another milieu, I have also known and interacted with a lot of classic rock and metal fans who play the guitar much better than me and I have seen very very few who like Bach or Beethoven or even jazz for that matter. They might not actively dislike, but indifferent is probably the right word. Why is this? I don't have an answer.

But I think you underestimate IR's popularity among singers. By several accounts, he is held in very high regard by classical and playback singers and musicians even in places like Bengal and Bombay. I doubt if ARR commands that sort of awe and respect from classical musicians -admiration, yes, respect, doubtful. Another thing to bear in mind is that ARR's music (or any of the present day youth MDs) music is relatively easy to reproduce on stage for an amateur or semi-pro band of 5 or 6. IR's music on the other hand is not that way and just does not sound the same without the original instrumentation - this is another reason amateurs are hesitant to attempt his music on stage...which could lead to indifference...just guessing.
Yes, I have experienced this too.  And again, it is the sound. Such people are completely addicted to the sound of distorted electric guitar.  They want that muscle and momentum, they think music is boring without it.  As I said, it needs the listener to step back and respond to the mathematical connections between notes, you know, the melodic and harmonic patterns at work rather than simply focus on the sound.  A lot of people don't have the patience for this.  

As for classical singers, I give Nityashree.  I guess she's awfully happy he allowed her to co-write songs for him, what can I say.  A certain generation of singers, like SPB, Chithra, Mano, Yesudas, are very much aware of IR's work and will always have the highest regard for him.  As for the next, I really don't know.  I remember Harish Raghavendra had once come on ragamalika and Vijay Adhiraj being a huge IR fan tried to draw him into a comparison of IR with other composers.  He was evasive about it to say the least.  It boils down to whether people dig deep enough to examine the progressions at work or simply react intuitively to it.  My uncle is a very good singer and he STILL thinks Kishore Kumar is the best.  I cannot understand - and never will - how a singer can rate Kishore over Rafi but it is, again, a question of whether people try to compare ability and talent or simply think their preferred singer must necessarily be the best.


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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  crimson king on Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:31 am

fring151 wrote:Another thing, crimson king, don't you think melody is more important than the sound for the average listener or does sound override everything else?
I think most people understand melody differently from the way you or I might.  They are not interested in the intricacies of it, which is what I find exciting.  Rather, they are more interested in the melodic flavour and sound can again play a big role in it.  ARR uses simpler, more straightforward melodies which might appeal to their taste.  People typically think Ennavale is oh so melodic.  It IS, but I cannot see how it is any more melodic than Kaalai Nera Poonguyil or Siru Koothu Le.  But since people can get pretty possessive about music tastes, I try to avoid that discussions.  Not my business.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  Wizzy on Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:10 pm

At the same time, it is also true that good sound / loops can be easily replicated. This is what is happening. I follow quite a few youngsters on twitter as well as in real life and what I see is that Rahman's music is not held up the same way it was in the early years. Now the youngsters in Tamil are onto Harris, Yuvan, Anirudh etc while there are enough MDs in Hindi whose music is hit and Rahman has just become one more MD there
true, HJ is a case in point who not only 'replicated' the sound and probably sold as many cds/got views in youtube/facebook likes as AR OTOH how many of Raaja's contemporaries were least able to compete in his game?


And ARR has a big edge over IR there because he did come up with a big new sound.  Forget listeners, musicians working in the industry at that time were blown away by what he did in his early films.
concur he had the early adopter advantage wrt technology but his catbird seat wrt producing new sound in every album has become so saturated that now we have sound engineers masquerading as MDs and have access to as many loops/tools as AR so what gives of the edge? AR and his team have already realized it and the entire charade of using new instruments like Harpeji/fingerboard was to get that advantage back. Now he wants to get back to orchestral music with his new school, guess we have done a full circle Laughing 


a) ARR's low no. of scores per se per year.  If he does only two or three films per year, how will they crowd out radio.  Even by his slow standards, he was doing a lot of work in the early-mid 90s.

b) Radio today only plays current songs for the most part, i.e., songs from the current year or at the most the last year.  I see a drop in popularity of ARR's latest songs (i.e. Tere mast mast do nain gets more plays even today than say Naadaan Parindey) but that may not reflect the nostalgia value of his 90s work.  In the 90s, even TV channels used to play a lot more music at regular intervals and it was easier to get a picture of the staying power of different songs.  Now, it's all about right here right now.
let me throw in some numbers, in his best year AR has only clocked 10 albums, guess rj's will quickly run out of stuff even if they were to play every shred of music AR has ever composed. 

Look at the number of youtube hits Raja songs have. There are literally dozens of songs which have a million+ views and hundreds which have half a million+ or thereabouts
not worth it Smile  Kolla veri/Anirudh </case closed>

I cannot comment on the popularity of IR's music in rural TN.
you only have to look @ so called TFi's rural movies which templates itself around Raaja music and how many of current directors convey
their allegiance to Raaja for their venture to world of movies. IIRC I could only point to connoisseurs Jothi Krishna/Kala Prabhu who had said something in similar vein about AR and what thirai kaviyams those churned out noteworthy

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  crimson king on Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:17 pm

I don't agree that HJ has replicated ARR's sound.  If he has, it is no more than the extent to which MM Kreem was able to imitate IR on Azhagan.  OK, ARR has become so boring over the last 10 years that he doesn't seem to have an edge over the other 'youth' composers but I cannot rate anything HJ has done on par with ARR's best 90s scores like Bombay or Kadhalan.   ARR may not be as talented as IR at composition but please, HJ basically has one music album that he keeps reproducing with slight 'customisations'. I personally think the likes of HJ have done a lot more damage to TFM than ARR.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  crimson king on Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:24 pm

I used to be generally interested in TFM during the 90s because at least there was ARR.  But after HJ ushered in the sound of muzak laugh  via Minnale, I lost interest.  Now new IR OSTs are all I am interested in.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  crimson king on Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:36 pm

Wizzy:  let me throw in some numbers, in his best year AR has only clocked 10 albums, guess rj's will quickly run out of stuff even if they were to play every shred of music AR has ever composed. 


While ARR never dominated in terms of quantity, the difference in the 90s was that it was his music that generated a lot of excitement.  At least that was the case in Chennai, whenever I visited the place during summer hols, it was the new ARR soundtrack of the year that most people were listening to.   People just kind of lost interest in IR at that time.  I remember watching Friends in theater and I liked most of the songs except that Vijay-sung dance number but my uncle was saying, "Raja oda music aana oru paatu-kuda manasula nikala."  Neutral   And he used to enjoy that Karuppadhan song.  tongue   Well, no explanation for which way tastes go, I suppose.  It is probably easier to get people of my generation interested again in IR soundtracks like NEPV rather than people like my uncle, because their mind is already made up.   Anyhow, other than Hosanna (why, why, why?) not many recent ARR songs seem to excite the public either.  Whether they look to film music as a source of excitement is itself a question.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  Raaga_Suresh on Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:51 pm

Here is another video wherein Rahman is trying to re-write history. I know this thread is for Raja but Rahman here makes wild claims like 'there are no violin players now', 'youth were not listening to film music before I came to the scene' and more importantly 'no one has composed harmonies as per western classical music' !!  

I am surprised how someone can tell such blatant lies keeping a straight face. As fring says, no use blaming him when there are listeners / fans who actually believe this shit.

http://t.co/dV58vVxvV1

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  crimson king on Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:14 pm

This is sort of the thing I meant in the earlier comments.  This is exactly how the RDB coterie have obscured Hindi film music history to present it as, "Hindi music began with RDB, everything before was boring", "Kishore da was the best and most versatile singer", "Rafi could not handle RDB's music" blah blah.  Watch how the interviewer helps perpetrate myths with ARR quietly agreeing rather than correcting him.   And to add to this point, the condition of TFM now is beginning to resemble HFM in the 80s when RDB was in decline and Bappi etc introduced their disco horrors.....except we still have IR. Very Happy

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  Wizzy on Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:23 pm

CK, HJ's USP was being AR lite wrt him being throwback to 90s of clear sounding simpleton melodies. after tasting success he went onto
create templates of guitar riffs/sax bits and has made a killing. imo after HJ came in AR went for denser sounds to be his signature sound in tfm and actually started alienating some of his hardcore fans. only an HJ collaborator like GVM got AR back on track in VTV in which AR tasted success after a string of failures which still fell short of VA/NEPV in CD sales.

I don't agree that HJ has replicated ARR's sound.  If he has, it is no more than the extent to which MM Kreem was able to imitate IR on Azhagan
diff is MM Kreem never outsold Raaja nor was he first choice MD for any of the directors nor did he charge premium for any of his work lwhilst HJ did all these when AR supposedly reined supreme.you only have to youtube to see vids of ARtards pointing to 2sec loops of an AR song being etched into full blown song by HJ. there 
was a popular kis kis that 'Vasegaara' was initially a temp tune for 'Snehidhane' which HJ nicked OTOH HJ fans say much of AR late 90s success like AP/KK were courtesy additional programming work by HJ, so it blows two ways but the general consensus is HJ did replicate AR sound and was fairly successful in doing it.

OK, ARR has become so boring over the last 10 years that he doesn't seem to have an edge over the other 'youth' composers but I cannot rate anything HJ has done on par with ARR's best 90s scores like Bombay or Kadhalan.
I'm not rating HJ over ARR 90s wrt quality, all I'm saying is HJ did beat AR in radio air-time/TV time/CD sales/youtube views by playing his own game which again proves most of AR 90s success is down to novelty factor/early adoption of tech which can be easily 'replicated'.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  crimson king on Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:28 pm

I do agree that HJ became more successful than ARR in the noughties, but I don't attribute that to HJ replicating ARR's techniques.  Rather, to ARR beginning to decline and leaving a void for commercial music (this was also the time ARR redoubled his efforts to 'crossover', become internazanal and conquer Bollywood, blah blah so he lost focus).  ARR in 90s was not just about simple melodies.  He also used ambient music and was also very much focused on rhythm.  I don't hear any of these things in HJ's music.  HJ might use some cool keyboard tones or rhythm loops but that's not THE ARR sound.   Even if HJ uses loops, his songs still sound boring, his interludes are still boring.   He may be successful with that, but then so was Anu Malik.   There's nothing that cannot succeed in film music.  Twisted Evil

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  D22_Malar on Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:28 pm

Since it's related to Hungary, i couldn't help it.., 

Ade ramaa, raamaa! scratch 

http://tamil.oneindia.in/movies/news/selvaraghavan-anirudh-fly-budapest-184428.html

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  app_engine on Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:56 pm

D22_Malar wrote:Since it's related to Hungary, i couldn't help it.., 

Ade ramaa, raamaa! scratch 

http://tamil.oneindia.in/movies/news/selvaraghavan-anirudh-fly-budapest-184428.html
plum has given Anirudh a new name "Mahler of Madras" Laughing

I'm happy for one aspect - ingEyum rAsA is THE trendsetter! Smile

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  crimson king on Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:18 pm

Can hardly wait to know who will be the John Cage of Chennai.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  D22_Malar on Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:00 pm

crimson king wrote:Can hardly wait to know who will be the John Cage of Chennai.
Laughing 

Oww.. I have feeling that there will be a long line of vijays, johns, harrys,  a whole line of meesic directors! just pick ...

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  app_engine on Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:48 pm

crimson king wrote:I do agree that HJ became more successful than ARR in the noughties, but I don't attribute that to HJ replicating ARR's techniques. 
I've opened a separate ARR thread in the Music Miscellany forum, to redirect the associated traffic Smile

http://ilayaraja.forumms.net/t135-discussions-on-arr

Enjoy!

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  Drunkenmunk on Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:08 am

Some of us might know that Veettukku Veedu Vaasapadi owes its origins to Mozart's 25th symphony. A violinist plays both. The transition is seamless. What is symphony becomes Tamil folk and the way it leads back to the symphony would make Mozart proud of Raaja. Mozart of Pannaipuram (feels good saying it Smile ) https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151967617354845

PS: Share senjavar Malayali Smile

PPS: This was in New Jersey. Indha connect with the audience when only a third person is performing. No other composer can come close.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  kiru on Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:20 am

Drunkenmunk wrote:Some of us might know that Veettukku Veedu Vaasapadi owes its origins to Mozart's 25th symphony. A violinist plays both. The transition is seamless. What is symphony becomes Tamil folk and the way it leads back to the symphony would make Mozart proud of Raaja. Mozart of Pannaipuram (feels good saying it Smile ) https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151967617354845

PS: Share senjavar Malayali Smile

PPS: This was in New Jersey. Indha connect with the audience when only a third person is performing. No other composer can come close.
Thanks .. did you see the comment by Napoleon (arunmozhi) there ?

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  kiru on Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:26 am

app_engine wrote:
D22_Malar wrote:Since it's related to Hungary, i couldn't help it.., 

Ade ramaa, raamaa! scratch 

http://tamil.oneindia.in/movies/news/selvaraghavan-anirudh-fly-budapest-184428.html
plum has given Anirudh a new name "Mahler of Madras" Laughing

I'm happy for one aspect - ingEyum rAsA is THE trendsetter! Smile
Anirudh is an impressive young fellow. I respect anybody who can compose even a silly little thing (I never made fun of even dEva those days).. kola veri is good, these are what I call the bread/butter of popular music, we need that too. (my 12yr old boy (who plays the piano) hates it though :-) ) Also, impressed with Dhanush writing those silly lyrics .. All these new young MDs just have to work hard. KJY keeps mentioning the hard work aspect of IR every now and then. Genius is 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  app_engine on Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:45 pm

Arunmozhi comment in that FB page

Napoleon Selvaraj wrote:
 I remember that day we recorded this song. Raja sir entered in to recording hall and asked the musicians to play the mozart symphony 25 piece and after the musicians performed that piece he told "innakki ithu thaan paatu!"
Athu thaan "veetukku veetukku vaasappadi" song:-)

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  app_engine on Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:04 pm

Digital 16 vayadhinilE Trailer


Now, 36 years later as the film is gearing up for re-release in digital cinemascope the film’s main pillars will be assembling at Kamala Theatre tomorrow, 4th October to mark the occasion. Superstar Rajinikanth, Kamal Haasan, Bharathiraja, Ilayaraja, Balachander, Ameer and a few other big names will be present at this event for the trailer launch of the film.

Both Rajini fans and Kamal fans are busy making preparations at the theatre to welcome their favourite heroes and their combined presence, along with maestro Ilayaraja, has made it a highly anticipated event that will be brimming with nostalgic stories and fond memories
BR & IR again in a function? Embarassed

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  app_engine on Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:16 pm

T Sounder's next - Arabi


சி.என்.பாண்டுரங்கன் கடைசியாக இசையமைத்த இறுதிக்காலப் படங்களில் உதவியாளாராக இருந்தவர் இளையராஜா.”சத்தியம் தவறாதே” பட டைட்டிலில் இசை சி.என்.பாண்டுரங்கன் என்றும் உதவி:ராஜா [இளையராஜா ] என்றும் இருக்கும்.
...
...
வழமைபோலவே பாரம்பரிய ராகங்களில் ஆச்சர்யம் மிக்க பாடல்களைத் தந்து பிரமிக்கவைக்கும் இளையராஜா இந்த ராகத்தையும் விட்டாரில்லை.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  app_engine on Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:18 pm

This news report says IR may not attend 16V trailer function


நாளை (அக்டோபர். 4)கமலா தியேட்டரில் நடக்கும் இந்த விழாவுக்கு ரஜினி, கமல், பாரதிராஜா உள்ளிட்ட படம் சம்பந்தப்பட்ட அனைவரும் வருகிறார்கள்.

இளையராஜாவுக்கும், பாரதிராஜாவுக்கும் மனத்தாங்கல் இருப்பதால் அவர் மட்டும் வருவது சந்தேகம் என்கிறார்கள்.
போகாதீங்க ராசா!

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  app_engine on Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:30 pm

Does Saravana stores pay royalty for this (or escape telling "reemixu") :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMuceOy-p6s

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 1

Post  fring151 on Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:36 pm

app_engine wrote: Arunmozhi comment in that FB page

Napoleon Selvaraj wrote:
 I remember that day we recorded this song. Raja sir entered in to recording hall and asked the musicians to play the mozart symphony 25 piece and after the musicians performed that piece he told "innakki ithu thaan paatu!"
Athu thaan "veetukku veetukku vaasappadi" song:-)
How cool is that? Napoleon commenting, I mean. What an amazing flautist.


Last edited by fring151 on Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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