Cricket - FOREVER

Speaking of passion, I was watching the last over of yesterday's match.  As Faulkner pulled a beauty of a long hop from Vinay Kumar for six and finished the game, a young woman in the aisles had her hands up on her head in disappointment.  I felt amused.  I used to be like that but now I only watch it for entertainment because I'd still much rather cricket than the Big Boss-type reality shows.  I really don't care anymore if India wins or loses because it's just a game both sides play for money.


And re football:  exactly. And that is why the likes of Warney, Chappell and others have rushed in to try the elevate the prestige of T20.  They have used their influence as former cricketers to dismiss the voice of Test fans and project T20 as equal in every respect to Tests, whether or not they say so expressly.  There was never any need to do such a thing in football because the format is the same, it is not a diluted version of the game unlike IPL.

crimson king wrote:Speaking of passion, I was watching the last over of yesterday's match.  As Faulkner pulled a beauty of a long hop from Vinay Kumar for six and finished the game, a young woman in the aisles had her hands up on her head in disappointment.  I felt amused.  I used to be like that but now I only watch it for entertainment because I'd still much rather cricket than the Big Boss-type reality shows.  I really don't care anymore if India wins or loses because it's just a game both sides play for money.


And re football:  exactly. And that is why the likes of Warney, Chappell and others have rushed in to try the elevate the prestige of T20.  They have used their influence as former cricketers to dismiss the voice of Test fans and project T20 as equal in every respect to Tests, whether or not they say so expressly.  There was never any need to do such a thing in football because the format is the same, it is not a diluted version of the game unlike IPL.

You have alluded to to Chappell a couple of times, so he is also promoting T20 now? Is he on the IPL commentary team? As I said I havenn't watched an IPL ( or intl match) in close to 2 years, so I am slightly out of touch. Chappell used to be quite a purist test cricket advocate once upon a time. What about Michael Holding. If I remember, there was a time 2-3 years ago when he was speakign out about IPL and T20. Being a huge fan of him, I hope he hasn't sold out too 

And on your post on Viv's iconoclasm, have you read Dickie Bird's autobiography? For me that was a fascinating peak into the 80s Windies team's mindset and Viv's utter disdain for bowlers. 

CK, IIRC Chappelli was never fan for IPL/T20s, his attempt to talk up Warner is his own fetish for all out attacking cricketers being it a bat/bowler/Captain. In similar vein he bigs up Sehwag or even not so known cricketers from his era like Doug Walters at any given chance.

fring151 wrote:And on your post on Viv's iconoclasm, have you read Dickie Bird's autobiography? For me that was a fascinating peak into the 80s Windies team's mindset and Viv's utter disdain for bowlers. 

Nope, I haven't.  Must do so since Bird himself was one of the iconic figures of cricket.

Wizzy wrote:CK, IIRC Chappelli was never fan for IPL/T20s, his attempt to talk up Warner is his own fetish for all out attacking cricketers being it a bat/bowler/Captain. In similar vein he bigs up Sehwag or even not so known cricketers from his era like Doug Walters at any given chance.

My point is he should at least wait till Warner has played a few Tests before comparing him to Test legends.  Otherwise, I will have no option but to believe that he is trying to appeal to the next gen audience and is anxious not to alienate them by bashing T20 stars.  Warner hadn't even debuted in Test cricket at the time Chappell compared him to those legends, which is ridiculous.

fring151 wrote:

crimson king wrote:Speaking of passion, I was watching the last over of yesterday's match.  As Faulkner pulled a beauty of a long hop from Vinay Kumar for six and finished the game, a young woman in the aisles had her hands up on her head in disappointment.  I felt amused.  I used to be like that but now I only watch it for entertainment because I'd still much rather cricket than the Big Boss-type reality shows.  I really don't care anymore if India wins or loses because it's just a game both sides play for money.


And re football:  exactly. And that is why the likes of Warney, Chappell and others have rushed in to try the elevate the prestige of T20.  They have used their influence as former cricketers to dismiss the voice of Test fans and project T20 as equal in every respect to Tests, whether or not they say so expressly.  There was never any need to do such a thing in football because the format is the same, it is not a diluted version of the game unlike IPL.

You have alluded to to Chappell a couple of times, so he is also promoting T20 now? Is he on the IPL commentary team? As I said I havenn't watched an IPL ( or intl match) in close to 2 years, so I am slightly out of touch. Chappell used to be quite a purist test cricket advocate once upon a time. What about Michael Holding. If I remember, there was a time 2-3 years ago when he was speakign out about IPL and T20. Being a huge fan of him, I hope he hasn't sold out too 

I do not know what his motives are, maybe he has some interest in BBL.  It was a surprise to me when he decided to prematurely talk up Warner.  Holding hasn't (yet) joined the club.  I hope he won't...I love his outspoken nature too even if I don't always agree with what he says.

crimson king wrote:Speaking of passion, I was watching the last over of yesterday's match.  As Faulkner pulled a beauty of a long hop from Vinay Kumar for six and finished the game, a young woman in the aisles had her hands up on her head in disappointment.  I felt amused.  I used to be like that but now I only watch it for entertainment because I'd still much rather cricket than the Big Boss-type reality shows.  I really don't care anymore if India wins or loses because it's just a game both sides play for money.


And re football:  exactly. And that is why the likes of Warney, Chappell and others have rushed in to try the elevate the prestige of T20.  They have used their influence as former cricketers to dismiss the voice of Test fans and project T20 as equal in every respect to Tests, whether or not they say so expressly.  There was never any need to do such a thing in football because the format is the same, it is not a diluted version of the game unlike IPL.

Exactly. I did that till 2011 WC. The match against SA that we lost at Nagpur after the Sachin hundred, I was disturbed for an hour. But now, it's all gone. Something snapped after Sachin retired. I still watch the games, I like to watch Kohli bat, I admire certain qualities in Dhoni but the passion in me is missing. A part of me still lies with the late 90s and 00s. The '98 series in Sharjah, the test series that preceded it, Champions Trophy Semi Final in Colombo vs SA or the Natwest Final in '02, THAT test series vs Aus in India in '01. That was the peak of the passion I had. Sadly or for good, I don't know yet, it's gone. The overall quality in world cricketers has slumped. And to invest the same passion and compare the new age to the old guard sounds ridiculous to me.

I cried when Aus beat India black and blue in the WC 2003 final.    Oh, what was I thinking.     Even as late as BG trophy 2007-08 and the CB series ODIs, I was still passionate about cricket.   That was the height.  After one or two IPL seasons, I sensed what was going on and the passion began to recede.  I watched the entire WC final of 2011 but I was never in tension and my reaction when Dhoni hit the six was also controlled.  Since then, it's gone down even further.  The shabby handling of VVS's farewell function (which both SRT and MSD bunked) hasn't helped at all; I always had a soft spot for him.  I kind of sensed something like that would happen because he was always ill treated and I wasn't surprised when it did.

Drunkenmunk wrote: The overall quality in world cricketers has slumped. And to invest the same passion and compare the new age to the old guard sounds ridiculous to me.

On the topic of quality of cricket, this is an interesting, if flawed, statistical argument for why Test cricket is better today than before.   

http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/680115.html

And this is my response to the same article, which I wrote today morning only.

http://www.cricketcountry.com/cricket-articles/Can-numbers-capture-the-drama-and-intensity-of-Test-cricket/32403

My point is he should at least wait till Warner has played a few Tests before comparing him to Test legends.

edhu eppo? any link, I see myself top of most things wrt cricket  he only drew a comparison with Sehwag and he was no test legend  

 Otherwise, I will have no option but to believe that he is trying to appeal to the next gen audience and is anxious not to alienate them by bashing T20 stars

As many Sach loyalists here(guess so  ) we may have lot to complain about stuffs he wrote about him but he was always a straight shooter 
with his own prejudices, if anything he does a good job of alienating the cricket watching populace with his comments.
though he is one of very few commies who do their 'homework' on players before they go on air not like our SunnyG/Shastrival who go blank on any first class cricketer making his int. debut and take pride in saying they never watches domestic cricket 

I would have to search for the links (if the quotes were captured on the net) because I heard it in TV commentary.  IIRC it was during the Aus-SA ODI series in 2009 that he said this.   I really like his commentary and his forthright views (just like you).  I don't mind a bit of SRT bashing once in a while because the hype gets a bit nauseating sometimes.     So I was a bit stunned when Chappell of all people said that.  Couldn't think what could have made him do that.


EDIT:  Non, could not find it in a quick google search.  But at the time, I double checked and triple checked with a friend who is also a fan of Chappelli the no nonsense man and yes, he said, he heard him too.

CK, wow believe it or not I have read most of your articles in CC, Eeswaran'oda leelai paatheengla  
wrt quality of cricket, what's even more perplexing are the heavy muscled  'cricket academy' prototype cricketers with big booming bats
and open chested hit the deck bowlers, fear we may never get to see cricketers like VVS/Asif whose skillset were so artistic/leisurely.
we can always count on Paks to find another Asif/Aamir but another VVS, fat chance 

That's good to know.  I hope you have liked them...did you ever comment on my articles and if so by what name?   

Yes, that is in fact what I said about VVS when he retired.  We might see more solid defensive players in the mould of Dravid (Amla, Cook, young Root is another promising prospect) but an artist like VVS - the odds are stacked against such players getting the necessary encouragement to make it.  The finer skills of cricket are 'endangered' because big, strong batsmen with amazing bats don't necessarily need them...or so they think, until they get owned on a lively deck by good pace bowling like Aus in that Cape Town match.   

There are actually a lot of contemporary Test players I am optimistic about, nevertheless.  I am going to keep an open mind on 'relative' quality today vis a vis earlier.  But I think the approach that Karthikeya Date followed is incomplete and misses the nuances that make cricket an intriguing game.

Junaid Khan has that Mohd Asif-like intrigue.  He has a lot of potential.  But Pak as such are getting into deeper and deeper trouble and not being able to play fixtures at home will hurt them long term.

That's good to know.  I hope you have liked them...did you ever comment on my articles and if so by what name?  

give it a pass , As George says here 'Worlds colliding' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPG3YMcSvzo

We might see more solid defensive players in the mould of Dravid (Amla, Cook, young Root is another promising prospect) but an artist like VVS - the odds are stacked against such players getting the necessary encouragement to make it. 

rare breed indeed, Rohit shows some signs but his mental fortitude is of an 5yr old, looking at domestic cricket/SA imports Eng look stacked with quality cricketers for next 10 yrs, though I hate ugly stanced cricketers like Cook, who fills the boots on hapless attacks like us, even 47yr old Wasim bhai will pwn him like he supposedly did to Eoin.

But Pak as such are getting into deeper and deeper trouble and not being able to play fixtures at home will hurt them long term.

Pak were always in some trouble  they just need to find an successor for Misbah, rest will take care of itself. I would go as far as rating 
their young bats are better than any of us save for Che.

But I think the approach that Karthikeya Date followed is incomplete and misses the nuances that make cricket an intriguing game.

I can live with cynics, gloom/doomers 

Ah, so maybe you were one of those who asked me to go back to audit, eh?    I am more of a tax professional by the way, these days in exports. 

RS is the 'talent' and has taken a long time to justify his place.  I am still not totally convinced and I was actually an instant convert after CB series.  I hope he will do well in SA, that could be his much awaited coming of age.

Pak batsmen are talented but some of them like Shafique and Umar Akmal don't apply themselves enough.  There are too few of them following the Inzy mould of solidity and more emulating the Basit Ali mould of erratic flamboyance.  But if they were all very patient and sensible like Misbah, they wouldn't be Pak.

Ah, so maybe you were one of those who asked me to go back to audit, eh?    I am more of a tax professional by the way, these days in exports. 

 

Umar Akmal isn't in their scheme of things wrt test cricket, Asad Shafiq/Azhar Ali are any day better than our young lot.
if their test team were to play in India they will wallop our test team. my other gripe is lack of coverage of SA-Pak series, even
English media which is tracking our odi series with OZ has given this series a miss, not even agency reports  


on raw talents, remember Anwar Ali from 2008 under 19 world cup, 
whatever happened to him, you wouldn't get this kind of banana swing even with soda bottle caps  

Yeah...it is pretty sad.  And it happens to all the UAE Pak fixtures.  They play well again and again and it doesn't get covered.  I loved the way Ajmal bamboozled the Poms last time.   It's pretty stunning, really, that SA were crushed in the first Test.

Brilliant bowling in that clip by Anwar Ali.  I don't remember him at all.  Yeah, what about him?  PCB is a master of talent mismanagement.

crimson king wrote:

Drunkenmunk wrote: The overall quality in world cricketers has slumped. And to invest the same passion and compare the new age to the old guard sounds ridiculous to me.

On the topic of quality of cricket, this is an interesting, if flawed, statistical argument for why Test cricket is better today than before.   

http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/680115.html

And this is my response to the same article, which I wrote today morning only.

http://www.cricketcountry.com/cricket-articles/Can-numbers-capture-the-drama-and-intensity-of-Test-cricket/32403

Excellently argued, CK. There are so many such battles of attrition in the 90s and early noughties which I have immensely enjoyed, similar to the Sachin-Saqlain one you have mentioned. I think any real cricket fan enjoys that kind of drama as much as, if not more than a Virender Sehwag blitzkrieg. As late as the late noughties, most teams had at least 5-6 genuine test specialists. Now? Apart from SA and England, I can't think of a team that has enough players of the temperament of say an Atherton or Justin Langer, let alone Dravid or Ponting. 

And I wonder if there are any Carl Hooper fans here? I always thought he was one of the most elegant batsmen to watch, exquisitely gifted, perennially under-achieving...

Thanks, fring.  Yeah, loved Carl Hooper's batting.  He had a little bit of the Kallicharan DNA which I don't think is in evidence in the style of the current WI batsmen.  NZ and Zimb have regressed alarmingly since the 90s.  NZ hit their peak under Fleming during the early noughties but since then seem to have lost their obduracy quite a bit.  They can still surprise teams once in a while but nobody would say they are punching above their weight anymore.

CK, guess I have put the mockers on Pak batting 

Wizzy wrote:CK, guess I have put the mockers on Pak batting 

lol, expect the unexpected with Pak. And so strange that they would surrender wickets to Tahir rather than the SA pace bowlers.  

Namma boys-kum irukku aapu, series has been confirmed.  

India chased down 350+ again? I didn't watch the match (obviously), but can cricket-watchers please enlighten me as to what on earth is going on? Even on the flattest of decks, this kind of score used to guarantee a walkover for the opposition.