Let's talk cars / automobiles...

An all-inclusive thread about automobiles.

Let's talk everything about them here - price / performance / efficiency / style / models / history / financing - A to Z!

The prices are SHOCKINGLY LOW in India...However, I choose to include this in a new thread where we'll discuss automobiles in a larger scope Smile

App it all comes with trade offs..ABS/ESC/ACC still aren't part of standard practice here..those sub 4m category which are only seen in India are yikes..NDTV recently did a crash test and the results were alarming.

Wizzy,
I agree that the automobiles cost much less in India due to the less-stringent specs (safety etc).

However, my shock (rather surprise) was due to the reason that the prices pretty much remained stable for a decade or more for automobiles - even when the input costs have skyrocketed, especially the manpower costs.

The obvious reason has to be significant amount of localization, huge increase in volumes and some strategic pricing.

For e.g., my first car, Tata Indica DLE costed around र 3.3 lacs in year 2000. A comparable petrol car, Maruti 800 DX (with a/c) those days was selling for ~ र 2.7 lacs at the same time period.

Obviously, that Indica wasn't anything compared to cars of international standard. Especially safety specs Less than a mile from the TATA service station in Cbe (Trichy road),  after the "first service", it got hit by a bus on the left side and had to be almost totalled (That I insisted in getting it repaired at a cost of some र 86K was a foolish story which followed with tales of troubles thereafter).

Now, after a decade of inflation & increase of most costs, such cars sell pretty much at same prices.

The Maruti Alto 800 model continues to be priced around र 3 lacs! Obviously it doesn't have much qualitative changes except cosmetics but the price is well maintained.

Multiple reasons...and let me try to get some listed here (others please correct me or add to this list)...

1. Increase in volumes that accounts for no net increase in overheads (such as manpower costs per car / real estate costs per unit etc)

2. Possible reduction in certain overheads that help balance out increases in other overheads (for e.g. energy / power costs have gone up but telecom / data processing costs have come down)

3. The obvious one, import substitution / localization (auto parts imported from Japan or Detroit v/s manufactured in Chennai)

4. Technology costs getting thinner because of policies / company structures. (e.g. Possibly, earlier it was Suzuki selling technology to Maruti for millions of $ v/s Suzuki Japan "transferring it at no cost" to "Suzuki India")

5. Competition eating into profit margins (Name any big brand, those cars are on Indian road. India perhaps has more brands than any country It has American, European, Japanese, Korean and Indian cars on road, a staggering list of brands and models)

6. Gov incentives and other strategic reasons (Tax breaks / duty reductions / industry promotions based on geographical locations etc)

I hope I'm talking sense here...

For e.g., my first car, Tata Indica DLE costed around र 3.3 lacs in year 2000. A comparable petrol car, Maruti 800 DX (with a/c) those days was selling for ~ र 2.7 lacs at the same time period.

India is hatches haven..but how many exciting cars do Indians get to drive in premium hatches/sedans? 30-35yrs midlevel management guy in US can drive a bimmer 5/audi a6 which still remains a etta kani for a midlevel management guy here.again by 30yrs Indian guy would have bought a home clearing his mortgage..different priorities I suppose.

2. Possible reduction in certain overheads that help balance out increases in other overheads (for e.g. energy / power costs have gone up but telecom / data processing costs have come down)

3. The obvious one, import substitution / localization (auto parts imported from Japan or Detroit v/s manufactured in Chennai)

Honda's heavily localized 'Amaze' design/built is an sight to behold..forget major markets I doubt they would release this car even in
Indonesia/Thailand but again Amaze is giving them the numbers so they would continue to dish out this crap of a car.

in other new Uber has set shop in Sennai, https://www.uber.com/cities/chennai
brilliant pricing..turns out to be cheaper than auto fares   

Daylight time change on car audio used to be a big irritation to me during Civic days.

I had similar irritation yesterday when trying to change the time on Jetta audio player. (Don't want to look at the manual and would like this to be pretty easy, as in the case of Chrysler mini van - both the analog clock and touch screen clock are easy to change).

Then figured out that the clock on the dash (part of the trip computer that shows stuff between the speedometer & tachometer, information such as odometer, trip meter etc) only has to be adjusted (and it is automatically sync-ed with the audio)

Adjusting the dash clock was quite simple, good job VW!

This winter had been terrible for drivers on U.S. roads for more than one reason.

While the others are pretty similar in every other place where snow / ice is an issue for a severe winter (that too an extended one like this year - having single digit F's in March, this morning's windchill here was 0 F!), the "pothole" phenomenon is unusual for the west - it is almost like India situation here

I've heard complaints even from a rich area like NY state capital! (Two tires got burst in the new car of my sis and even rims got damaged, she had to claim insurance).

It is much worse here in Detroit where pothole-killing-tire is like "I had chAi" kind of story

I was talking to a Michigander yesterday (who retired after serving for many years as Engg Manager in one of the big-3 auto companies) and he gave some interesting info :

1. People can claim compensation from state / city in MI if their tire gets spoilt by pothole
(It is their respo to fix potholes it seems and they're compensating for their failure)

2. They pave only 4 inches here, compared to the 12 inches of Autobahn (Germany), possibly because of huge # of miles and also the demands of unions to ensure jobs year after year.

3. There are also some voluntary agencies that can be called to fix / change tires for free (apart from calling AAA / your friends etc)...one lady told me that when she had her tire bust on an exit, there was a "good samaritan" truck waiting right there, sponsored by CVS pharmacy, that fixed for her freely.

Trouble in Toyota factory that makes Innova

ஜப்பானைத் தலைமையகமாகக் கொண்ட டொயோட்டா கிர்லோஸ்கர் மோட்டார் நிறுவனத்தின் இரண்டு இந்தியக் கிளைகள் கர்நாடக மாநிலத் தலைநகர் பெங்களூருவில் செயல்பட்டு வருகின்றன. கடந்த 1997ஆம் ஆண்டு திறக்கப்பட்ட முதல் பிரிவில் பார்ச்சுனர் மற்றும் இன்னோவா ரக கார்கள் உற்பத்தி செய்யப்படுகின்றன.

சென்ற 2010ஆம் ஆண்டில் திறக்கப்பட்ட இரண்டாவது பிரிவில் எடியோஸ், கொரோலா ஆல்டிஸ் போன்ற கார்கள் உற்பத்தி செய்யப்படுகின்றன.இந்த இரு பிரிவுகளிலும் கடந்த 25 நாட்களுக்கு மேலாக ஊதிய விகிதம் குறித்த சில பிரச்சினைகளினால் பல தொழிலாளர்கள் உற்பத்தியைப் புறக்கணித்து வந்துள்ளனர். உள்ளூர் அரசு நிர்வாகமும், தொழிற்சங்கங்களும் சமரசப் பேச்சுவார்த்தைக்கு முயன்றும் நிலைமை சீரடையவில்லை. வேறு வழியில்லாத நிலையில் இரண்டு உற்பத்திப் பிரிவுகளிலும் நேற்று முதல் கதவடைப்பு செய்யப்படுவதாக டொயோட்டா நிறுவனம் தெரிவித்துள்ளது.

I've heard complaints even from a rich area like NY state capital! (Two tires got burst in the new car of my sis and even rims got damaged, she had to claim insurance).

It is much worse here in Detroit where pothole-killing-tire is like "I had chAi" kind of story

Ah...that place in US where the max number of Indians drive each day - the US 101 in the Bay Area....

I only use it when I have to drop someone at the airport. Forget about a final chat in the car before check-in/security checks : you have to keep an eye on the road at all times and dodge the few dozen potholes.

Or perhaps I am a shit driver who goes 55-65mph and sticks to the slow lanes instead of zooming at 85mph and staying in the well maintained leftmost lane  

I wonder how Baroque manages to listen to IR songs and comments about their nuances on her commute - either she never uses 101 or has a memory map of all the potholes on that freeway  

VAG's tagline of 'True German Engineering' takes a whole different meaning with this 'defeat device' 





given the sheer number of companies involved, this could be the biggest ever scandal to hit the industry

nanRi Wizzy, for those links!

It does sound like deliberate cheating by VW

Good that it had been found out and they're made to pay for it

App, biggest comedy ARAI jumping into testwagon, guess VAG will just point them car manufacturing Indian tractor companies 

air is getting murkier as expected http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/30/wide-range-of-cars-emit-more-pollution-in-real-driving-conditions-tests-show