Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Ah, so it was the ever sharp Sureshji who noticed this! Btw, had fun quickly glancing through that thread from last year again. Several people on full form there, particularly Jaiganesh in the following page when he talks about abandoning diplomacy  

Of course. Taking about Hindi masters and Raaja, another pet theory of mine is Raaja loves Kabhie Kabhie. Khayyam. Lovely, eternal classic made more immortal for us due to Gounder-Manivannan's irreverence



Raaja did a superb blues version of Thyagaraja's Tholi Nenu and a Carnatic to folk reinterpretation of Kabhie Kabhie (very direct) in Avar Enakke Sondham: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzxVaAj7Y_Y

What is of course not direct is Oru Vaanavil Pole from Kaatrinile Varum Geetham:



idhu Raaja solli dhaan theriyum. Raaja sollalaina theriya no chance!

Funny, because just yesterday evening, they played Pal do Pal from the same film on the radio and I remarked to my father that Raja handled the same rough raga formation in a more interesting way on Oru Vanavil Pole.  Of course, Khaiyyam being a Pahadi (over)specialist, Kabhi Kabhi is also similar.

Lot of "nostalogy" and memories attached to "Kabhi Kabhi". Lovely lovely song and lyrics.

Drunkenmunk wrote:Surprised you are discovering this only now. Interesting because Ore Naal Unai Naan was inspired by this melody. Raaja and old Hindi masters is a different tale altogether.

Haven't heard much old HFM beynd famous RDB/SDB, Shankar Jaikishen and Salil . Most older HFM composers like MM, Khemchand prakash, C Ramachandra etc are for the most part, unknown to me  . My teenage/college years were spent listening to Raaja, Rahman, Zeppelin, Hendrix, Metallica, Beatles, Floyd,  Clapton, Chopin and Beethoven..

You liked Metallica?  Ha, have fond memories of the first time I heard RTL and felt bewildered by what then felt like a massive wall of distortion (the heaviest I must have heard at that point would be 80s Scorpions or Van Halen).

I am not sure there's all that much of Khemchand Prakash you necessarily need to hear and strictly the select classics of CR for me (like Yeh Zindagi Usi Ki Hai) though others may well have a different view.  MM was more innovative and daring than them. In that regard, probably the closest to Raja of the older HFM composers because he loved taking risks (without going for a desi psychedelic approach a la RDB) and yet this habit caused him much grief in terms of lack of commercial success.  Naushad also tried a similar approach on Saathi, probably his last great album, but just that once.  If you like Hindi semi classical stuff, then Roshan is a must have because he has given some of the sweetest solos as well as duets in that niche.

Talking of Roshan, I'd say he was a little limited. But within his zone (the semi-classical melodies which you mention), he was unmatched. A Rafi lovely from Roshan I absolutely love:

Yeah, limited but very effective within his niche.  And probably Pradeep Kumar's best friend.   

crimson king wrote:Yeah, limited but very effective within his niche.  And probably Pradeep Kumar's best friend.   

DM,

idhu kalyani ya...............

I think so.  It's Yaman in Hindustani.  Don't know what, if any, differences there are between Hindustani Yaman and Carnatic Kalyani but allowing for it, def Kalyani flavour in parts of this tune.  I am getting a slightly more minor flavour in the beginning of the antara but otherwise more or less sticks to the notes, I think.

CK,
Thanks for the response.... ungaluku romba theriyadhu....... s. full paatum kalyani aga illai dhan.

stanza vum, interludes um kalyaniyaga iruku ......

I broke down the notes just now.  The one variation - which is also in the first line of antara - is the introduction of N2.  Also used in "Wohi raaj-e-dil" in mukda.  Other than that variation, this is as Kalyani as Kalyani gets.  Great composition.

crimson king wrote:I broke down the notes just now.  The one variation - which is also in the first line of antara - is the introduction of N2.  Also used in "Wohi raaj-e-dil" in mukda.  Other than that variation, this is as Kalyani as Kalyani gets.  Great composition.

CK,
enna madhichu ipadi details sonnadhuku romba thanks........

crimson king wrote:You liked Metallica?  Ha, have fond memories of the first time I heard RTL and felt bewildered by what then felt like a massive wall of distortion (the heaviest I must have heard at that point would be 80s Scorpions or Van Halen).

Oh I loved them  . Still have a few songs of theirs in my assorted rock/metal compilation mp3. Few favourites - Fade to black, Unforgiven, Orion, Call of Ktulu, Low Man's lyric, Astronomy (cover of Blue Oyster Cult). If you find Metallica noisy, I suggest you give Judas priest a try (suspect you already might have). Here's one   

I have heard "Ye zindagi usi ki hai". (Usually such famous songs, I would have heard at least in passing), but nothing other than that. Will check out Roshan sometime. Am aware Raja professes admiration for him and MM quite a bit.

Oh, I should have been clearer.  I love Metallica, though strictly the old stuff   - RTL, MOP, Creeping Death, Blackened etc.  I went way deeper into metal afterwards, real hardcore extreme stuff.  I only got bored of the repetition and then stopped tracking more metal music.  I was just referring to my initial reaction as a 'rock virgin', RTL was pretty scary at that time.  In fact, it just flipped beyond my idea of how far music could reach.  Had never imagined music could be so industrial, so angry and intense.    

Love Judas Priest, needless to say.  While I am a huge prog rock fan, my all season, staple favourite Western music would be either heavy metal or jazz based rock/pop like Steely Dan, Wonder, Fiona Apple etc.

If my list of school/college favs gave the (incorrect) idea that I have only listened to good music all my life, let me quickly correct that impression . You have to remember I came of age in the early 2000s, around the time of the Indian MTV boom and that Nikhil Chinappa dude's show (forget what it was called) of whom I was some sort of Theevra rasigan (please don't ask why). If the gatekeepers of heaven were to hold me accountable for some of my early choice of music and bands, let's just say I would have plenty to answer for. To cut to the chase,at various points in time, I have been guilty of enjoying Backstreet boys, Westlife (which I stopped listening to when I turned 12), Gorillaz, Shaggy, various Desi MTV pop,remix bands (13), Limp Bizkit, Creed (14), Eminem, Abba, Linkin park, Nirvana all of which I thankfully weaned off by the time I entered college. To their credit, the later group was capable of writing a good tune on their day, but eventually I just grew (up) out of it, though I still don't mind listening to some select songs of their once in a while.

CK,
So nice to read your posts of rock classics. Please, why don't you open a separate thread and write more about the rock/heavy metal stuff you enjoyed/enjoy? It will be a great treat for us to read? Bala (Karthik) and KV would also be more interested to discuss.

fring151 wrote:If my list of school/college favs gave the (incorrect) idea that I have only listened to good music all my life, let me quickly correct that impression . You have to remember I came of age in the early 2000s, around the time of the Indian MTV boom and that Nikhil Chinappa dude's show (forget what it was called) of whom I was some sort of Theevra rasigan (please don't ask why). If the gatekeepers of heaven were to hold me accountable for some of my early choice of music and bands, let's just say I would have plenty to answer for. To cut to the chase,at various points in time, I have been guilty of enjoying Backstreet boys, Westlife (which I stopped listening to when I turned 12), Gorillaz, Shaggy, various Desi MTV pop,remix bands (13), Limp Bizkit, Creed (14), Eminem, Abba, Linkin park, Nirvana all of which I thankfully weaned off by the time I entered college. To their credit, the later group was capable of writing a good tune on their day, but eventually I just grew (up) out of it, though I still don't mind listening to some select songs of their once in a while.

lol...but I don't think there's anything particularly bad about ABBA or Nirvana, well, except that Nirvana used to nick a lot from older bands.  ABBA may have had too much saccharine in their music but their arrangements on some songs are great, esp The Visitors album.  It's too bad really that it took the pain of a breakup for them to write such a good album.

I think the worst I must have heard would be Celine Dion.  I enjoyed watching a full concert back then, probably on MTV.  Ewwwwwww....hers must be one of the few cases in which my tastes have enjoyed so much that I can't enjoy it anymore.  Also, this super duper sphagetti classic courtesy Kumar Sanu which I never missed watching on TV in my school days:

V_S wrote:CK,
So nice to read your posts of rock classics. Please, why don't you open a separate thread and write more about the rock/heavy metal stuff you enjoyed/enjoy? It will be a great treat for us to read? Bala (Karthik) and KV would also be more interested to discuss.

Done.

Abba and Nirvana are not bad, by any stretch. It is unfair to apply the same adjective to these people as for some of the other bands I mentioned. Overrated? definitely, bad, No. Kurt Cobain, especially is just obscenely overrated as a guitarist. Would still take him anyday over Boy bands and teen icons of the 90s and noughties.

One of the last real rock icons, though Layne Staley owned him left, right and center.  But...grunge conversation to continue here please!

https://ilayaraja.forumms.net/t181-the-rawk-thread

We were talking about Kalyani/Yaman the other day.  Another classic Yaman.

Late RD promising composition but Lata is simply too old by this point to do justice to such a fresh, chilled out tune.

Late RDB song you say. Mind travels to this beauty from Libaas. Gulzar, Lata only. But an absolute favorite: