Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 3

Usha Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:58 pm

crimson king,

revathi and us.. kobathuku romba nyayamana kaarnaam.. mood and the feelings. Mandram vandha.. enna oru feelings....

Cheeni kum.. quite opposite.. adhai than yetru kolla mudiyaviilai....

IR songs.. perfect aga.. remake analumae... mudhalil kaeta version.. adhan inmai.... adutha version il illai dhan.........

Perfect. idhu Raja paatai kaetu kaetu.. avar nammai pazhakiyadhan vilaivu dhan... avarudiaya paatin.. marudhal vadivam.. namaku pidipadhu ilai...

Thirukovur Balaji Prasad Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:13 pm

Mana Oori Ramayanam audio release in the US:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/telugu/movies/news/Mana-Oori-Ramayanam-audio-release-in-the-US/articleshow/54265818.cms

Thirukovur Balaji Prasad Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:58 pm

Dafedar Malayalam movie with music by the maestro:

https://youtu.be/olyI7wIdPkw

app_engine Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:19 pm

A Telugu music band gives itself a Thamizh name, 'isai' - because of their love for IR Smile

http://www.thehindu.com/features/metroplus/city-bands-speak-of-the-genesis-of-their-names-and-the-quirkiness-that-goes-into-them/article9115371.ece

Staying true to the soil that one comes from is often a good idea in finding a name. But, a six-member band from the city went ahead to name their band ‘Isai’. They are quick to clarify that they considered many options like Raagam, Taanam, Pallavi to other ones , but rejected them as they had been used on television reality shows. So they went beyond Telugu and considered words from Kannada, Malayalam or Tamil. Ilayaraja (also known as Isai Brahma in Tamil Nadu circles) being a unanimous favourite with all the membersIsai seemed an apt and easy choice for their band name.

app_engine Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:34 pm

Story of a film producer who is now a fruit-shop guy:
http://tamil.filmibeat.com/news/producer-actor-azhagan-tamilmani-turns-as-fruit-vendor-042287.html

Well, there's no direct reference to IR in the article but the three hit films this producer had ever made were:
malaiyoor mambattiyAn
anbuLLa Rajinikanth
dharma paththini
- all had some special songs by IR.

Now, the interesting part is about the salaries people were paid for malaiyoor mambattiyAN :

இப்படம் தயாரிக்க நானும் முதலீடு செய்தேன். அப்படி ஆரம்பிக்கப்பட்ட படம் தான் மலையூர் மம்மட்டியான். அப்படத்தை நாங்கள் 1984ல் வெளியிட்டோம். அப்படத்தில் நடித்த நடிகர் கவுண்டமணிக்கு 5000 ரூபாய்தான் சம்பளம், நடிகர் செந்திலுக்கு 3000 ரூபாய் தான் சம்பளம். இதைச் சம்பளம் என்று கூற முடியாது. ஏனென்றால் படமெடுக்கும் எங்களின் நிலையை புரிந்து கொண்டு படத்தில் நடித்த எல்லோரும் எங்களோடு இணைந்து படத்தை நன்றாக கொண்டு வர எல்லா வித உதவிகளையும் செய்தார்கள் என்றே கூறவேண்டும். அப்படி எடுக்கப்பட்டு , மாபெரும் வெற்றி படமாக மாறிய திரைப்படம் தான் மலையூர் மம்மட்டியான் திரைப்படம்.

அண்ணன் தம்பிகள் எல்லோரும் சேர்ந்து இப்படத்தை எடுத்தோம். ஒரு படம் வெற்றி பெற்றுவிட்டால் எல்லோருக்கும் தலைக்கனம் வந்துவிடுமே. ஆம் எங்களுக்குள்ளும் அது வந்துவிட்டது. அப்படி தலைக்கனம் வந்தவுடன் நாங்கள் அனைவரும் பிரிந்துவிட்டோம். பிரிந்து சென்ற எங்களுடைய அண்ணன் தம்பிகள் எல்லோரும் இணைந்து தேவி பகவதி பிலிம்ஸ் என்னும் பெயரில் படக் கம்பெனியை துவங்கி படம் தயாரிக்க தொடங்கினர். நான் வெளியே வந்துவிட்டேன். வெளியே வந்தவுடன் அன்புள்ள ரஜினிகாந்த் என்னும் படத்தை என்னுடைய இரண்டாவது படமாக நான் தொடங்கினேன்.

IR made remarkable albums for such "start-up" kind of producers. That was when he was commercially occupying a position hitherto unseen by any TFM MD! (1984)
(No need to guess how much he would have been paid for MM project. Possibly (practically) nothing, except studio / recording expenses, as Thiagarajan also was very close to IR during his "assistant" days.)

app_engine Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:16 pm

There is some discussion between crimson_king and vijay(r) in the comments section of BRangan's mounarAgam post, on IR's copies:
https://baradwajrangan.wordpress.com/2016/08/25/mouna-raagam-30-years/#comments

Well, this post is not to discuss any specific copy Smile

In the course of discussion, CK gives some "more-than-deserved" credit, IMHO, to itwofs Karthik (i.e. in comparison with vikatan / idlyvadai kind of fellows as to properly identifying copies v/s inspirations).

C_K wrote:
And this is not about any particular composer. I just think people have to be careful when they accuse somebody of copying, that’s all. In the original itwofs website, Karthik Srinivasan took care to distinguish inspired/influenced cases from outright plagiarism but these mokkai pasangal at Anantha Vikatan don’t bother. Oh, by the way, did they acknowledge itwofs.com at all as the source because most of the cases they cited are the ones itwofs.com has long ago highlighted? Would be the ultimate irony if Anantha Vikatan pretended their video was original content.

While Karthik did create a webpage (and got a lot of credit for that, including interview to The Hindu etc), it needs to be reminded here that he sourced most of his copied-TFM data from tfmpage.com/forum Smile

Also, per my personal recap of TFM history, it was initially IOKS (with their "mettonRu pAttuppala" program) that highlighted this plagiarism aspect in late 70's / early 80's itself, playing the similar sounding songs and making fun of the copy. That way, even when whole TN was going gAgA over "mEghamE mEghamE", we were made aware of the original ghazal song, by IOKS. (Abdul Hamid, who did a guest role in the climax of Tenali and was a biggie in IOKS + possibly Rajeswari Shanmugham hosted that program series).

On the web of course, as with everything in TFM, it was tfmpage.com that did the thing, the pioneer TFM-related website.

It placed a lot of emphasis on this subject and collected MOST samples of TFM-copies, which itwofs happily made use of!

Some of the tfmpage.com (now called mayyam.com or The Hub) old-timers possibly remember the threads related to TFM-copies, that brought-in a load of such samples.

வரலாறு மிக முக்கியம் அமைச்சரே Smile

app_engine Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:33 pm

The post above is a "self-defense" post too Smile

For example, if tomorrow I say HJ copied from a Xmas song to make 'EdhO onRu EdhO onRu' of lEsA lEsA, then I'm not sourcing the data from itwofs & I don't have to acknowledge that website Laughing

(That is because it was me who "originally" rotfl

identified the similarity when listening to that Xmas song on a store in Michigan / posted it on tfmpage.com ; Karthik borrowed that info from that thread Wink

)

crimson king Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:11 pm

Oh, I was not aware of that. That changes a lot of things. However, my point was when a magazine decides to make a post about copies (where only a few of the instances can be legitimately called copies) and source the material from another website without their original input, they should acknowledge the website. If they have made the effort to identify some other instances of plagiarism along with, then it's ok but if they are lazy enough to simply reproduce same instances then accusing the composers of plagiarism looks very hypocritical.

app_engine Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:15 am

crimson king wrote:when a magazine decides to make a post about copies (where only a few of the instances can be legitimately called copies) and source the material from another website without their original input, they should acknowledge the website.

Of course, no question about that!

Well, vikatan has lost any credibility long back and I've personally stopped considering it seriously years ago.

In this case though, probably they thought this info is from tfmpage and thus "open-source" Laughing

(Some reporters of vikatan.com happen to be old-timers @ tfmpage)

app_engine Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:22 am

Prakash Raj / Priyadharshan / Golden globe

சில சமயங்களில்...

kiru Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:11 am

Well, I have a problem with itwofs. It only deals with tune copying. But times have changed. Songs become a hit because of the 'rhythm arrangement'. Many of the films songs now have the arrangements copied from another song. All the 'cool stuff' / sounds innovative are all from songs which I now and then hear while surfing radio/satellite channels. Changing the notes a little bit and using the 'same sound' has become the norm. IR and older MDs created 'new sounds' just with combination of instruments and notes/phrases/chords. It is also possible that is why they were not able to create 'new sounds' all the time. The new MDs are composing with a different model, it is basically composing from parts, almost assembled. Only the tune is theirs (which is also many times 'inspired').
IR is the last of these heavy weights. We need a new crop of original composers like him. The audience also needs to get over the 'new sound' honey moon and really focus on the music.

crimson king Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:13 pm

kiru wrote:Well, I have a problem with itwofs. It only deals with tune copying. But times have changed. Songs become a hit because of the 'rhythm arrangement'. Many of the films songs now have the arrangements copied from another song. All the 'cool stuff' / sounds innovative are all from songs which I now and then hear while surfing radio/satellite channels. Changing the notes a little bit and using the 'same sound' has become the norm. IR and older MDs created 'new sounds' just with combination of instruments and notes/phrases/chords. It is also possible that is why they were not able to create 'new sounds' all the time. The new MDs are composing with a different model, it is basically composing from parts, almost assembled. Only the tune is theirs (which is also many times 'inspired').
IR is the last of these heavy weights. We need a new crop of original composers like him. The audience also needs to get over the 'new sound' honey moon and really focus on the music.

Not strictly true, he has pointed instances where Rahman has used the 'loop' so to speak from other songs. Poo pookum osai and akada (Indian) were two such instances mentioned on the website. I think however that if we start saying rhythm patterns are 'copied' it will get complicated because in the old days it was common for an MD to pick one from a standard set of beat patterns. So who is to say who copied that from who? There's no doubt though that with the emphasis on loops, originality is lost and songs sound generally indistinguishable from one another. And as always, India is aping Western trends here. One thing holds true from 1950s (when C Ramachandra became interested in jazz) to the present day, that we are inclined to ape Western trends and a true iconoclast like IR remains rare (and that adjective doesn't do him justice). One of the reasons why I have always distinguished his approach to Indo-Western synthesis from the other great Hindi and Tamil composers. However great they were, they mainly thought in an Indian vocabulary and fitted the Western elements accordingly, like adding cuffs and pockets to a shirt. Only IR showed that the two can be integrated into one flowing style (HIS style). The sad part is IR himself knows this is what he has achieved and also knows that by and large this country is too dumb to ever fully appreciate the import of what he has done.

kiru Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:21 pm

CK, please note I mentioned "rhythm arrangement" not pattern. The arrangement gives the texture and hence the "character" of the sound. I dont want this to be a tirade against an Oscar-award winning son-of-the-soil whom we should all be proud of. But as is the wont in our culture. We do not seem to have the ability to distinguish the excellent from the good. If we want MDs to give a song in a new 'genre' every time who will create the genre's in the first place ? That is what IR does, create a genre, by applying himself again and again in a particular area/strategy.
I dont think itwofs Karthik is appreciative of the capabilities/style of IR vs other MDs. To him, they are all horses in the same race. I have a major problem with this and decided not to deal with his site or himself even (while in tfmpage).

crimson king Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:33 pm

kiru wrote:CK, please note I mentioned "rhythm arrangement" not pattern. The arrangement gives the texture and hence the "character" of the sound. I dont want this to be a tirade against an Oscar-award winning son-of-the-soil whom we should all be proud of. But as is the wont in our culture. We do not seem to have the ability to distinguish the excellent from the good. If we want MDs to give a song in a new 'genre' every time who will create the genre's in the first place ? That is what IR does, create a genre, by applying himself again and again in a particular area/strategy.
I dont think itwofs Karthik is appreciative of the capabilities/style of IR vs other MDs. To him, they are all horses in the same race. I have a major problem with this and decided not to deal with his site or himself even (while in tfmpage).

I got you the first time around. The thing is, there was never a concept such as rhythm arrangement/loop before the 1980s (at the earliest). It is a product of the digital era. So we are not comparing apple to apple when we talk about 'copying' rhythm arrangements. To me, a song is built either around melody or around chords or both. Blatant appropriate of these is copying to me, but not rhythm nor anything to do with rhythm. Yes, the rhythm arrangements today sound more catchy and exotic but again that is only a product of technology. Pink Floyd and Steely Dan with all their access to the best studio technology of their time (70s) could never do this stuff because it was impossible then. If they could, they probably would have (if one goes by Floyd's last couple of albums). Now, the point which I also agree with is just because the arrangement gives a certain character to the song doesn't necessarily mean the melodies too have to be similar. But they are and that is because composers have become lazy. SPB doesn't mince words in his Bosskey interview and he has worked with all of them from KV/MSV through to the current set. The listening public also aids the composers in their laziness because they are taken in by the flavour of the sound and do not discern differences in melody and harmony (do not want to, it could be argued) and thus cannot tell the difference in quality between an Anirudh and an IR. Karthik has also succumbed to this and you might recall that he got very much offended when I said, "Kazhdhaikenna theriyum karpooravasam" on this forum. Razz

If people are only going to go by 'feel' then IR might as well quit making music because the very purpose is lost. But he keeps soldiering on and the minority (including us) who care about it can also keep the flame burning for as long as it's possible. Adhukkappiram steep slide into mediocrity of unforeseen levels. Oscar thalaivar is only as good as most Oscar winning soundtracks these days. Razz

kiru Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:15 am

CK, agree, I am pretty sure Karthik knows more music than I do. But for some reason, people like him, either underestimate, ignore or biased when it comes to IR. Raja sang (not as good as Sharreth) en uLLam kovil at the concert here and mentioned he came up with the lyrics and tune spontaneously without any instruments in front of him, when Bala narrated the situation. Apparently, Bala was completely in tears. Not sure, how much of the TN film song audience would care for this. I could listen to it n number of times in a day.

crimson king Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:34 am

kiru wrote:CK, agree, I am pretty sure Karthik knows more music than I do. But for some reason, people like him, either underestimate, ignore or biased when it comes to IR. Raja sang (not as good as Sharreth) en uLLam kovil at the concert here and mentioned he came up with the lyrics and tune spontaneously without any instruments in front of him, when Bala narrated the situation. Apparently, Bala was completely in tears. Not sure, how much of the TN film song audience would care for this. I could listen to it n number of times in a day.

I am not sure what he does know! If he actually found the Kalvane key shift so bizarre (which was pretty standard from a Western point of view), he doesn't really understand much about harmony. He might know a lot of facts, trivia, different songs but that doesn't mean he understands music deeply from a conceptual standpoint. As in, yours truly knew a lot about who won which grand slams in which years, but it was only after picking up a tennis racquet did I understand the art of hitting strokes (and could relate that to what I saw the pros doing which I cannot touch in several lifetimes). Out of curiosity, does Karthik work in the music industry for a living? That would be too shocking...or not, given my first hand experience of how lackadaisical musicians claiming to have worked in Bolly can be. Sorry to say that no wonder IR berates them often.

app_engine Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:45 pm

அம்மா

Fun to read Smile

தமிழ்த் திரைப்படங்களில் அம்மா செண்டிமெண்ட் நிரம்பி வழிந்த காரணத்தால் அம்மா பாடல்கள் எனத் தனித் தொகுப்பே பலருடைய திரைப்பாடல் களஞ்சியத்தில் இடம்பெற்றுள்ளன. அதில் பெரும்பாலான பாடல்கள் இளையராஜா குரலில் அல்லது அவரது இசையமைப்பில் வெளிவந்தவை. ‘மன்னன்’ படத்தில் ஜேசுதாஸ் பாடிய ‘அம்மா என்றழைக்காத’ பாடலுக்கு நடிகர் ரஜினி காந்த் தன் தாய்க்கு எண்ணெய் தேய்த்துக் குளிப்பாட்டுவார். அந்த வயதில் ஒரு தாய்க்கு எண்ணெய் தேய்த்துக் குளிப்பாட்டினால் அந்தத் தாயின் நிலைமை என்ன ஆகும் என யோசித்ததே இல்லை, ஒருவேளை அவருக்கு ஜன்னிகூடக் கண்டுவிடலாம். இப்படியான மிகைப்படுத்தல்கள் இல்லாமல் உறவையும் அதன் வலுவையும் காட்ட முடியாதா என்ன?

Usha Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:11 pm

Siru kootula from Violin Vicky..

IR's Ordinary ellam unmaiyil Ordinary illai........ ellam extraordinary...... andha madhirii indha kalyani.. simple madhirii irukum. anal ilai endru
Violin vicky solli therigiradhu.........

For instance, midway of stanza in the lines of "Ullandhaan Nallarundha" the song shifts to the dominant 5th, ie., the key of A Major, as the Sruthi. At this moment, the song sounds like a completely different scale but it still remains within the confines of Kalyani all the time. Such is his creativity to see the dimensions which no one else can see.

Another rarity in this song is the usage (or the lack of it) of minor third chord (F#m). This chord is usually found in abundance in all his Kalyanis, especially to accentuate Nishadham. But in this song it surfaces only once during the course of the entire song. Because the melody line is such that the regular D/A shift sounds so good where it should have been D/F#. This shows he really composes with no preconceived formula but the melody line gets treated on its merit and leads the arrangement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUmfMzEnjS0

Usha Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:16 pm

Evening Kaapi with Ilaiyaraaja from violin vicky........

endha paatunu theriyalaiyae enaku...... Embarassed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSnqSnSishs

app_engine Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:02 pm

As usual, straight drives

பாகிஸ்தான் நடிகர்கள் தங்களின் நடிப்புத் தொழிலை நிறுத்திக்கொண்டு சொந்த ஊருக்குத் திரும்ப வேண்டும் எனவும், முதலில் அவர்கள் இந்தியாவை விட்டு 48 மணி நேரத்தில் வெளியேறியாக வேண்டும் என்றும் மகாராஷ்டிர நவநிர்மாண் சேனா கூறியிருந்தது.

இது தொடர்பாக செய்தியாளர்கள் கேட்ட கேள்விக்குப் பதிலளித்த இளையராஜா, ''இசைக்கு எல்லைகள் கிடையாது; அதற்கு நாடுகள் தெரியாது'' என்று கூறியுள்ளார்.

அதே நேரம், ஏ.ஆர்.ரஹ்மான் பற்றிய கேள்விக்கு பதில் கூற அவர் மறுத்துவிட்டார்.

''(ஏ.ஆர்.ரஹ்மான் பற்றி) என்னிடம் ஏன் கேட்கிறீர்கள்? நீங்கள் அவரை மதிக்கிறீர்கள். உங்களுக்கே அவரைப் பற்றித் தெரியும். ஆனால் நானும் அப்படியே இருக்க வேண்டும் என்று எதிர்பார்க்காதீர்கள்'' என்று கூறியுள்ளார்.

**V_S** Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:11 pm

Usha wrote:Evening Kaapi with Ilaiyaraaja from violin vicky........

endha paatunu theriyalaiyae enaku......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSnqSnSishs

app_engine Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:03 pm

radio and music reference

"Tamil song writer and composer" it seems Laughing

Tamil songwriter and composer Ilaiyaraja once said, 'music transcends countries and knows no boundaries'.

Indian singer Sonu Nigam and Pakistani singer Atif Aslam are showcasing something similar in the US. The two are touring together.

counterpoint Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:20 pm

Karthik's copied song compilation exercise is fine. But somewhere along the way he decided that the popularity his copied songs site gave him automatically made him qualified to be a "critic". Thats where the problem started. We complain that the music is like fast food these days. What the likes of Karthik have done is dumb down music critique to twitter-length fast-food reviews. I believe I have seen his "review" in Hindu. Maybe it is par for the course. Maybe contemporary TFM deserves only such reviews!
On the other hand, even for insipid movies BR writes lengthy reviews analyzing why the movie did'nt work for him at a personal level. Well, he is from a different era I guess.

app_engine Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:11 pm

Sharreth Interview

Sharreth played a significant part as judge in hugely popular musical reality shows that dominated prime time TV. Meanwhile, he was also making music for himself, making albums and reinterpreting Carnatic kritis and old Malayalam film songs. “Its my way of paying tribute to the composers.” So, who does he idolise? “Many, but I’d say Ilayaraja first. He is like a university.”

app_engine Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:56 pm

Link shared by @jvazhkudai (Jai Ganesh) in twitter:

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/cinema/film-music-reinvention-of-the-classical

T M Krishna wrote:
The sound of Ilayaraja’s music has played a major role in erasing his caste identity from social consciousness

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