Re: IR the genius

fring151 Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:58 pm

app_engine wrote:After a long time, I checked out "pazhaiya veedu" (to find the link for my post on vAnam niRam mARum for fring's sake)...and chanced upon this funny post by one Gopal S :
http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?10454-Why-I-Consider-IR-Unparalleled&p=1148686&viewfull=1#post1148686

Interesting to see venkkiram doing the torch bearer job for IR

Don't know about Venkkiram's past history with ex-Hubbers, but that is a very spirited defense indeed . CK, aren't you a bit exhausted waging the same battle on two different fronts? Razz

2)பூர்ஷ்வா முறையில் ,பிறரை அவமதிப்பது,சிறு சிறு உரசல் வந்தவர்களை எதிரி போல பாவிப்பது ,பழி வாங்குவது,சுற்றம்,சொந்தம்,நட்பு இவற்றை உதாசீனம் செய்து நம்பியவர்களை நட்டாற்றில் விடுதல் இவற்றை செய்யாமல் இருந்தாரா?

3)இவரது ஆன்மீக பற்று ,இவர் அளவு மீறிய அகந்தையை கட்டுக்குள் வைத்திருந்ததா ?

4)தொழில் போட்டியாளர்களை ,வளரும் இளம் இசையமைப்பாளர்களை இவர் எதிர் கொண்ட விதம் பெருமைக்குரியதா?

இது தமிழகத்தின் மன நோய்

fring151 Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:28 am

app_engine wrote:ravinat sir's e-book:
http://freetamilebooks.com/ebooks/music-genious-raja/

Many congrats on successful completion of this book. I think it is great you decided to publish it in Tamil. Wish the book great success. Poi sEra vEndiyavangalukku sErndhA nalladhu...

Btw, some interesting choice of words/coinages there. Haven't seen ஈரின்னிசை for counterpoint before. Curious about the etymology Smile

ravinat Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:38 am

Thanks for the compliments. For those who have read my blog and my writings in Raja forums, this may not be new.

I have been postponing writing in Tamil about Raja for a while, till I realized recently that most Raja related books/writings (there are exceptions such as Vicky's) in Tamil are very emotional responses to Raja's work.

One of the reasons I postponed was my fear of finding the right words in Tamil for a number of Western Classical Musical terms. I do not think I did a great job at that, this time. However, I always want to contribute at least a few words in everything I write in Tamil. I recently landed in trouble when I wanted to describe computer parallel processing in Tamil. There are simply no words for that. I ended up calling this as 'இணையாளல்’. Roughly translates to parallel handling, but good enough to convey the idea. Here is the reference to my latest article on computer graphics processors (or GPU):

http://solvanam.com/?p=34481

I did not like the Tamil words for 'counterpoint' and did not want to write literally. I also did not like the term பண்யிணைப் புள்ளி as that was not really conveying the idea. I decided to use my own set of words - இரு + இன்னிசை becomes ஈரின்னிசை as a counterpoint is always about two simultaneous melodies. I was in a rush to get the book out, or else, I would have thought of a nice Tamil word for Fugue. I do not care, which words get adopted in the longer run as long as it challenges me to coin new phrases. The greatest challenge that I am upto next is writing about genetics and the terminology simply does not exist in Tamil. Any biologists, biotech folks here?

panniapurathar Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:11 am

Congratulations! Thank you for bringing this work out. It is a testament to the quality of your writing that the no. of downloads has crossed over 1500! Vaazthukkal again.

crimson king Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:16 am

fring, just one comment. I don't expect a direct rebuttal to that from S Gopal. There is none. That is a FACT. Nobody in the world has brought about that kind of Indo-Western synthesis and nobody with a working pair of ears will even attempt to deny it once they are made aware of. Now he seems to be mumbling some nonsense about revisionism and brainwashing which doesn't address the point. Most likely he didn't even read it as venki kept ranting on.

Ravi sir, congratulations and thank you once again. I cannot read so much Tamil but in this case, I will have to make out time and try. Very Happy

fring151 Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:06 am

^^ Lol. Just read his last post. The same smug attitude that is to be found in Kaarigan, Amudhavan, milliblog and some other self-proclaimed neutrals, matured and humble music fans (hint hint, wink wink). Didn't he make a point about IR's arrogance in one of his earlier posts. And just as one might expect he reveals how humble he himself is soon after:

"காரணம் நான் ஆறாவது மனநிலையில் உள்ள பக்குவ பட்ட இசை ரசிகன்."

Earlier he also said he has heard 100% of songs of all famous MDs. Enna oru humility, enna oru confidence. Moral and logical consistency for these people is just a philosophical idealisation.

fring151 Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:24 am

ravinat wrote:
I did not like the Tamil words for 'counterpoint' and did not want to write literally. I also did not like the term பண்யிணைப் புள்ளி as that was not really conveying the idea. I decided to use my own set of words - இரு + இன்னிசை becomes ஈரின்னிசை as a counterpoint is always about two simultaneous melodies. I was in a rush to get the book out, or else, I would have thought of a nice Tamil word for Fugue. I do not care, which words get adopted in the longer run as long as it challenges me to coin new phrases. The greatest challenge that I am upto next is writing about genetics and the terminology simply does not exist in Tamil. Any biologists, biotech folks here?

Indeed, ஈரின்னிசை is very suggestive of the actual meaning. I like it Smile

. These coinages, especially for scientific and technical terms are very valuable and much needed IMO. Wish more people take it up.

crimson king Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:50 am

lol, is he even remotely aware of how many songs that would entail? 100%! Sounds like "en isai kekkadha endha gramamum kedayadhu". Razz

kiru Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:37 am

fring151 wrote:^^ Lol. Just read his last post. The same smug attitude that is to be found in Kaarigan, Amudhavan, milliblog and some other self-proclaimed neutrals, matured and humble music fans (hint hint, wink wink). Didn't he make a point about IR's arrogance in one of his earlier posts. And just as one might expect he reveals how humble he himself is soon after:

"காரணம் நான் ஆறாவது மனநிலையில் உள்ள பக்குவ பட்ட இசை ரசிகன்."

Earlier he also said he has heard 100% of songs of all famous MDs. Enna oru humility, enna oru confidence. Moral and logical consistency for these people is just a philosophical idealisation.

Never believe those people who say - I like IR's BGM/RR, but when it comes to songs, I can choose from a variety of sources !!!. This is their trick to 'cut short' / 'marginalize' / 'put in place' IR. Note, as Balki mentioned, there are tonnes of tunes in the BGMs, it is no big deal to put a rhythm and spin a song. IR has no problem in creating bits songs in movies.. great tunes are sometimes small bits.. vaRRaadha nadhi .. this man.
@Ravi - I thank you from the bottom of my heart.. what a piece of work. The funny thing is all this fusion, WCM is now part of our ken and any IR fan can now listen to a WCM composition without much trouble. Slowly, he has fed us European classical music, without us knowing it.

fring151 Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:57 am

kiru wrote:Never believe those people who say - I like IR's BGM/RR, but when it comes to songs, I can choose from a variety of sources !!!. This is their trick to 'cut short' / 'marginalize' / 'put in place' IR. Note, as Balki mentioned, there are tonnes of tunes in the BGMs, it is no big deal to put a rhythm and spin a song. IR has no problem in creating bits songs in movies.. great tunes are sometimes small bits.. vaRRaadha nadhi .. this man.

It is not that hard to see through the intellectual dishonesty of self-proclaimed neutral, all MDs equal, holier-than-thou "Unlike you, I like good music irrespective of who gives it" "All composers have given great music, so all are great in their way, you can't compare", "I have heard more music than all of you who are mere keNathu thavaLais and listen only to IR" types. I mean, it's not hard at all, is it?

Drunkenmunk Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:00 am

Shows their arrogance innit, there is a *possibility* that we might have heard quite a lot (and possibly more) than what they have (even here, I won't be foolish to state I have 100% every music) and settled with Raaja. The reverse is in fact true with me, you, plum, CK, Ravinat and most of us in this forum. We are not keNaRRu thavaLais and I even say this only because of a generalized comment calling IR fans keNatRRu thavaLais Laughing

And fantastic attempt Ravinat. Read the first few pages only. If this is a teaser to go by, I think I am in for a treat Smile

fring151 Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:10 am

crimson king wrote:lol, is he even remotely aware of how many songs that would entail? 100%! Sounds like "en isai kekkadha endha gramamum kedayadhu".

And that was in response to the question "Today in every nook and corner of the world, your music is loved and enjoyed, but why is it that in villages in your home state, you are still not so popular?". And instead of feigning suitable embarrassment at the rather exaggerated suggestion in the question, what does Mr. humility icon say? He tacitly acknowledges this and further helpfully adds "en isai kekkadha endha gramamum kedayadhu". "Mr. Interviewer, you are much mistaken. Not only everyone in every corner of the world outside TN, even in rural TN, contrary to popular perception, there is no village where my music is not popular". Priceless.

fring151 Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:16 am

Drunkenmunk wrote:Shows their arrogance innit, there is a *possibility* that we might have heard quite a lot (and possibly more) than what they have (even here, I won't be foolish to state I have 100% every music) and settled with Raaja. The reverse is in fact true with me, you, plum, CK, Ravinat and most of us in this forum. We are not keNaRRu thavaLais and I even say this only because of a generalized comment calling IR fans keNatRRu thavaLais

Indeed. There is no need to even spell it out. but it is interesting most of these neetrals love to parade their superior taste and exposure to other music. Kaarigan said something similar in the other thread too. If I remember right, he called me an infant who has not heard even a fraction of the music he had at my age. I am chuckling as I type this... Laughing

app_engine Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:48 pm

fring151 wrote:"காரணம் நான் ஆறாவது மனநிலையில் உள்ள பக்குவ பட்ட இசை ரசிகன்."

Latest, 'don't equate me with other bloggers'.

ok, time to not go to that thread anymore for entertainment Laughing

crimson king Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:29 pm

Indeed, unlike other bloggers, he displays his ignorance with unparalleled brazenness. Maybe that's why he feels so offended at the word unparalleled being used w.r.t IR. It is his ejjjklujeev property.

jaiganesh Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:05 am

ravinat wrote:Thanks for the compliments. For those who have read my blog and my writings in Raja forums, this may not be new.

I have been postponing writing in Tamil about Raja for a while, till I realized recently that most Raja related books/writings (there are exceptions such as Vicky's) in Tamil are very emotional responses to Raja's work.

One of the reasons I postponed was my fear of finding the right words in Tamil for a number of Western Classical Musical terms. I do not think I did a great job at that, this time. However, I always want to contribute at least a few words in everything I write in Tamil. I recently landed in trouble when I wanted to describe computer parallel processing in Tamil. There are simply no words for that. I ended up calling this as 'இணையாளல்’. Roughly translates to parallel handling, but good enough to convey the idea. Here is the reference to my latest article on computer graphics processors (or GPU):

http://solvanam.com/?p=34481

I did not like the Tamil words for 'counterpoint' and did not want to write literally. I also did not like the term பண்யிணைப் புள்ளி as that was not really conveying the idea. I decided to use my own set of words - இரு + இன்னிசை becomes ஈரின்னிசை as a counterpoint is always about two simultaneous melodies. I was in a rush to get the book out, or else, I would have thought of a nice Tamil word for Fugue. I do not care, which words get adopted in the longer run as long as it challenges me to coin new phrases. The greatest challenge that I am upto next is writing about genetics and the terminology simply does not exist in Tamil. Any biologists, biotech folks here?

muransErisai (முரண்சேரிசை) what i have been thinking about counterpoint..

kiru Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:59 am

jaiganesh wrote:

muransErisai (முரண்சேரிசை) what i have been thinking about counterpoint..

I like it .. If my understanding is right counterpoints do not have to be just two counter-melodies .. so eerinnisai does not capture it precisely
But I appreciate Ravi for doing this in tamil ..this will reach a wider audience .. and probably more genuine music fans.

kiru Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:02 am

fring151 wrote:
Drunkenmunk wrote:Shows their arrogance innit, there is a *possibility* that we might have heard quite a lot (and possibly more) than what they have (even here, I won't be foolish to state I have 100% every music) and settled with Raaja. The reverse is in fact true with me, you, plum, CK, Ravinat and most of us in this forum. We are not keNaRRu thavaLais and I even say this only because of a generalized comment calling IR fans keNatRRu thavaLais

Indeed. There is no need to even spell it out. but it is interesting most of these neetrals love to parade their superior taste and exposure to other music. Kaarigan said something similar in the other thread too. If I remember right, he called me an infant who has not heard even a fraction of the music he had at my age. I am chuckling as I type this...

Dont worry about those people .. they dont listen .. I am much older than many of you guys and I am happy to say I have learned more from you young fellows than these so called blog writers ..

fring151 Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:17 am

kiru wrote:
fring151 wrote:
Drunkenmunk wrote:Shows their arrogance innit, there is a *possibility* that we might have heard quite a lot (and possibly more) than what they have (even here, I won't be foolish to state I have 100% every music) and settled with Raaja. The reverse is in fact true with me, you, plum, CK, Ravinat and most of us in this forum. We are not keNaRRu thavaLais and I even say this only because of a generalized comment calling IR fans keNatRRu thavaLais

Indeed. There is no need to even spell it out. but it is interesting most of these neetrals love to parade their superior taste and exposure to other music. Kaarigan said something similar in the other thread too. If I remember right, he called me an infant who has not heard even a fraction of the music he had at my age. I am chuckling as I type this...

Dont worry about those people .. they dont listen .. I am much older than many of you guys and I am happy to say I have learned more from you young fellows than these so called blog writers ..

Going to steal the inimitable @dagalti's tweet response to something similar:
A curious case of mistaken identity which I am too immodest to protest.

kiru Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:25 am

fring151 wrote:
kiru wrote:

Dont worry about those people .. they dont listen .. I am much older than many of you guys and I am happy to say I have learned more from you young fellows than these so called blog writers ..

Going to steal the inimitable @dagalti's tweet response to something similar:
A curious case of mistaken identity which I am too immodest to protest.

@DM - any sudhdha dhanyasi song in Sree Rama Rajyam ?

Drunkenmunk Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:55 am

Jagadhaanandhakaaraka is Sudha Dhanyasi Smile

ravinat Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:14 pm

I want to post something unrelated to music, but very related to this topic. The youtube video below, shows an interviewer asking a perfectly reasonable question, 'how does a magnet work?'. Richard Feynman tears the interviewer down and demonstrates how unreasonable his question was. To those who do not know Dick, here is an arrogant scientist. For the rest in this group, this will sound very familiar...

While we all have our theories of his genius, we may all be very well wrong in our details.

ravinat Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:17 pm

kiru wrote:
jaiganesh wrote:

muransErisai (முரண்சேரிசை) what i have been thinking about counterpoint..

I like it .. If my understanding is right counterpoints do not have to be just two counter-melodies .. so eerinnisai does not capture it precisely
But I appreciate Ravi for doing this in tamil ..this will reach a wider audience .. and probably more genuine music fans.

Jai and Kiru

I like Jai's recommendation better than mine.

Moderators, can we do something very useful in this group? Why can't we create a separate thread where we try to make recommendations for WCM terms? I am sure, some of the words will get adopted over time.

app_engine Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:46 pm

ravinat wrote: Why can't we create a separate thread where we try to make recommendations for WCM terms?

Done

https://ilayaraja.forumms.net/t201-developing-thamizh-terminlogy-for-western-and-non-thamizh-forms-of-music

crimson king Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:33 pm

ravinat wrote:I want to post something unrelated to music, but very related to this topic. The youtube video below, shows an interviewer asking a perfectly reasonable question, 'how does a magnet work?'. Richard Feynman tears the interviewer down and demonstrates how unreasonable his question was. To those who do not know Dick, here is an arrogant scientist. For the rest in this group, this will sound very familiar...

While we all have our theories of his genius, we may all be very well wrong in our details.

That was very entertaining, thanks for posting.

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