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jaiganesh
sagi
kaarigan
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இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
kaarigan Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:03 pm
நல்லது. நான் இப்போது இளையராஜாவைப் பற்றியே பேச இருக்கிறேன். அவரின் சிறப்புகள், படைப்பாற்றல், தரம் இன்னபிற சாதனைகள் என்று மற்றவர்கள் பட்டியல் போடும் அத்தனை சங்கதிகளையும் பற்றி நாம் இங்கே விவாதிக்கலாம்.இளையராஜா உண்மையில் ஒரு மகத்தான இசைச் சக்தி என்பதில் மாற்றுக் கருத்தே இல்லை. அவரின் பெருமைகளை நான் நன்றாகவே அறிந்திருக்கிறேன். யாராவது இளையராஜாவின் சிறப்பான (தரமான)பத்து பாடல்களை இங்கே பட்டியல் இட்டால் நாம் தொடர்ந்து பேசலாம். அப்படி இல்லாத பட்சதில் அவருக்கு சிறப்பு எதுவும் இல்லை என்று முற்றுப்புள்ளி வைத்து விடலாமா?
kaarigan- Posts : 7
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sagi- Posts : 688
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Re: இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
jaiganesh Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:18 am
அதென்ன சிறப்பான பத்து?kaarigan wrote:நல்லது. நான் இப்போது இளையராஜாவைப் பற்றியே பேச இருக்கிறேன். அவரின் சிறப்புகள், படைப்பாற்றல், தரம் இன்னபிற சாதனைகள் என்று மற்றவர்கள் பட்டியல் போடும் அத்தனை சங்கதிகளையும் பற்றி நாம் இங்கே விவாதிக்கலாம்.இளையராஜா உண்மையில் ஒரு மகத்தான இசைச் சக்தி என்பதில் மாற்றுக் கருத்தே இல்லை. அவரின் பெருமைகளை நான் நன்றாகவே அறிந்திருக்கிறேன். யாராவது இளையராஜாவின் சிறப்பான (தரமான)பத்து பாடல்களை இங்கே பட்டியல் இட்டால் நாம் தொடர்ந்து பேசலாம். அப்படி இல்லாத பட்சதில் அவருக்கு சிறப்பு எதுவும் இல்லை என்று முற்றுப்புள்ளி வைத்து விடலாமா?
எழுதியதா?, பாடியதா? படைத்ததா?
இதெல்லாம் நீங்கள் இந்த தளத்தின் இழைகளை சற்று அசிரத்தையுடன் வாசித்திருந்தால் கூட கிடைக்குமே? தனி இழை எதற்கு?
இளையராஜா என்ற மனிதர், மகா படைப்பாளி - அவர் இந்த மண்ணின் இயல்பான அறிவாற்றல், இசை என்ற பொருளை விழைந்து கைக்கொள்ளும் போது இசை ஒரு புதிய திசையில் பயணிக்க உருவான புதிய பாதை. இசையின் நுண்மையான அழகியலை அவர் மனம் அறிந்த அந்தக்கணத்தில் அவர் உணர்ந்த அந்த வியப்பினையும் மகிழ்ச்சியையும் தன் இசையில் அப்படியே வடித்துத்தருவதில் விற்பன்னர் - அந்த வகையில் அவருக்கு முன்னும் இல்லை இப்போதும் இல்லை - இனி வருங்காலத்திலும் ஒருவர் தோன்றி வரும் வாய்ப்புகள் குறைவே! அவருடைய பட்டறிவும் கேட்டறிவும் நம் தமிழ் நிலத்தின் தொன்மையின் தொடர்ச்சி. எப்படி தமிழ் சமணம், பெளத்தம், ஆரியம் என்ற அத்துனையையும் தன் வயிற்றுக்குள் செறித்துத்தனதாக்கிக்கொண்டதோ, இளையராஜாவும் எந்த இசை வடிவையும் தனதாக்கி இறுதியில் நமதாக்கித்தருகிறார். இந்த பரிணாமத்தில் எந்த ஒரு வடிவமும் சிதைவு படாமல் வெளிவருவ்தே இளையராஜாவின் மனம் செய்யும் மாய வித்தை. அதனால் தான் அவர் இசைஞானி. இதை உணராத சிறுவர்கள் இணைய சந்து பொந்துகளில் இதோ கிடைத்தது இசை குறித்த சுட்டி - அதைப்படித்து நானும் இளையராஜ ஒன்றும் அவ்வளாவு பெரிய ஆள் இல்லை என்று புறப்பட்டிருக்கும் செயல் பெரியார் பக்தர்கள் பிள்ளையாருக்கு செருப்பு மாலை அணிவித்துத்தங்கள் மடைமையை உலகுக்கு அறிவித்தது போல் இருக்கிறது.
jaiganesh- Posts : 703
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Re: இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
kaarigan Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:18 am
நீங்கள் சொல்வது உங்களுக்கே புரிகிறதா என்று இன்னொரு முறை சரி பார்க்கவும். மற்ற இசை அமைப்பாளர்களை .(இதை சொல்வதால் app-engine உடனே இதற்க்கு வேறு இடம் இருக்கிறது. இதற்க்கு பூட்டுபோடுகிறேன் என்று வந்துவிடக்கூடிய அபாயம் இருக்கிறது)இசை என்ற புள்ளியிலேயே வைத்து பாராட்டிவிட்டு இளையராஜா என்றால் மட்டும் அவர் இசைக்காக அவதாரம் எடுத்த இசைக் கடவுளாக பார்க்கும் இந்த வினோதம் அல்லது விபரீதம் இங்கே அரங்கேறிவருகிறது.
"அதென்ன சிறப்பான பத்து?
எழுதியதா?, பாடியதா? படைத்ததா?"
இளையராஜா ஒரு சிறந்த கவிஞர் என்பதையும் அபாரமான பாடகர் என்பதையும் அவரே நகைச்சுவை என்று ஒதுக்கிவிடுவார். எனவே அவர் படைத்த பாடல்களையே நான் குறிப்பிட்டேன். அதைப் பற்றி பேசாமல் எதோ ரமண மகரிஷியைப் பற்றி விவாதிப்பதுபோல தத்துவம் வருகிறது உங்களிடமிருந்து. இப்படி திசை திருப்பும் முயற்சியில் ஈடுபடாமல் நேர்மையாக உங்கள் கருத்துக்களை முன் வைத்தால் நலம்.
- "அந்த வகையில் அவருக்கு முன்னும் இல்லை இப்போதும் இல்லை - இனி வருங்காலத்திலும் ஒருவர் தோன்றி வரும் வாய்ப்புகள் குறைவே!"
இது மிகையாக உணர்ச்சி வசப்பட்டதால் விழைந்த ஒரு குழப்பமான வாக்கியம் என்றே கருதுகிறேன். இளையராஜாவை நீங்கள் அதீதமாக புகழ்வதும் உடனே இன்னும் இரண்டு மூன்று பேர் தோன்றி ஒருவர் முதுகை மற்றவர் சொ... விடுவதும் (இதுவும் உங்கள் app engine தளத்தின் வார்த்தை பிரயோகமே.Back-scratching என உங்கள் தலைவர் குறிப்பிட்டிருந்தார்.அதையே நான் தமிழில் மொழிபெயர்த்துள்ளேன்) அலுப்பாக இருக்கிறது. எதிர் கருத்துகளை இரும்புத் திரை கொண்டு அடைத்துவிட்டு உங்களுக்கு பிடித்த கருத்துக்களை மட்டும் அனுமதிப்பது என்ன சுதந்திர சிந்தனை என்று புரியவில்லை எனக்கு. இளையராஜா ஒருவரே இங்கே இசைஞர் என்றால் அவர் காலம் முடிந்தது ஏன் என்று கேட்கிறேன். அவருக்கு முன்னும் பின்னும் யாரும் கிடையாது என்ற உங்கள் கருத்தை தெளிவு படுத்துவீர்கள் என்று நம்புகிறேன்.
"அதென்ன சிறப்பான பத்து?
எழுதியதா?, பாடியதா? படைத்ததா?"
இளையராஜா ஒரு சிறந்த கவிஞர் என்பதையும் அபாரமான பாடகர் என்பதையும் அவரே நகைச்சுவை என்று ஒதுக்கிவிடுவார். எனவே அவர் படைத்த பாடல்களையே நான் குறிப்பிட்டேன். அதைப் பற்றி பேசாமல் எதோ ரமண மகரிஷியைப் பற்றி விவாதிப்பதுபோல தத்துவம் வருகிறது உங்களிடமிருந்து. இப்படி திசை திருப்பும் முயற்சியில் ஈடுபடாமல் நேர்மையாக உங்கள் கருத்துக்களை முன் வைத்தால் நலம்.
- "அந்த வகையில் அவருக்கு முன்னும் இல்லை இப்போதும் இல்லை - இனி வருங்காலத்திலும் ஒருவர் தோன்றி வரும் வாய்ப்புகள் குறைவே!"
இது மிகையாக உணர்ச்சி வசப்பட்டதால் விழைந்த ஒரு குழப்பமான வாக்கியம் என்றே கருதுகிறேன். இளையராஜாவை நீங்கள் அதீதமாக புகழ்வதும் உடனே இன்னும் இரண்டு மூன்று பேர் தோன்றி ஒருவர் முதுகை மற்றவர் சொ... விடுவதும் (இதுவும் உங்கள் app engine தளத்தின் வார்த்தை பிரயோகமே.Back-scratching என உங்கள் தலைவர் குறிப்பிட்டிருந்தார்.அதையே நான் தமிழில் மொழிபெயர்த்துள்ளேன்) அலுப்பாக இருக்கிறது. எதிர் கருத்துகளை இரும்புத் திரை கொண்டு அடைத்துவிட்டு உங்களுக்கு பிடித்த கருத்துக்களை மட்டும் அனுமதிப்பது என்ன சுதந்திர சிந்தனை என்று புரியவில்லை எனக்கு. இளையராஜா ஒருவரே இங்கே இசைஞர் என்றால் அவர் காலம் முடிந்தது ஏன் என்று கேட்கிறேன். அவருக்கு முன்னும் பின்னும் யாரும் கிடையாது என்ற உங்கள் கருத்தை தெளிவு படுத்துவீர்கள் என்று நம்புகிறேன்.
kaarigan- Posts : 7
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Re: இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
fring151 Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:03 am
Sorry to butt in here.
Kaarigan avargale,
I haven't figured out how to type in tamil and I find it a bit overwrought to type long sentences in tamizh using the Roman script, so kindly bear with me. Two questions for you.
1) What exactly are you trying to establish in this thread? I ask out of genuine curiosity. The title is vague and both your posts so far don't state the purpose of the thread . So I request you to kindly edit the title to make it more informative or at least clarify in your next post what it is that you want to discuss or analyze.
2) Following up on the previous point, regarding " யாராவது இளையராஜாவின் சிறப்பான (தரமான)பத்து பாடல்களை இங்கே பட்டியல் இட்டால் நாம் தொடர்ந்து பேசலாம்." Say I list 10 songs. What do you plan to discuss about these songs? Do you propose a critical study of the harmony arrangements? Perhaps an analysis of the raagams and the way they have been used? The instrumentation and dynamics? The basslines?
I am all for a critical study, but I'd like a clear answer to these two questions before I engage any further in this discussion.
Kaarigan avargale,
I haven't figured out how to type in tamil and I find it a bit overwrought to type long sentences in tamizh using the Roman script, so kindly bear with me. Two questions for you.
1) What exactly are you trying to establish in this thread? I ask out of genuine curiosity. The title is vague and both your posts so far don't state the purpose of the thread . So I request you to kindly edit the title to make it more informative or at least clarify in your next post what it is that you want to discuss or analyze.
2) Following up on the previous point, regarding " யாராவது இளையராஜாவின் சிறப்பான (தரமான)பத்து பாடல்களை இங்கே பட்டியல் இட்டால் நாம் தொடர்ந்து பேசலாம்." Say I list 10 songs. What do you plan to discuss about these songs? Do you propose a critical study of the harmony arrangements? Perhaps an analysis of the raagams and the way they have been used? The instrumentation and dynamics? The basslines?
I am all for a critical study, but I'd like a clear answer to these two questions before I engage any further in this discussion.
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Re: இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
kaarigan Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:44 pm
Mr.Fring,
I think I have made myself very clear in my previous post especially in the last sentence.So, I don't feel the need to repeat what is already said. I understand your difficulty to type in Tamil but it doesn't matter . I don't think I can change the topic to your liking. The four dots you see after my title stand for what you don't want to read about Ilayraajaa. If that's really your bone of contention, Well, you have to bear with me.
Next, you want me to tell what I intend to analyse about his music. It's a trap, I guess. You try to pick words from my mouth and ride on your usual beaten track rather than the less travelled road. (Courtesy- Robert Frost). What I have thought to do about the best 10 songs of Ilayaraajaa depends on the songs you choose to reveal.
"Do you propose a critical study of the harmony arrangements? Perhaps an analysis of the raagams and the way they have been used? The instrumentation and dynamics? The basslines?"
I don't see any reason why you should sound so pompous. All these "highly powerful jargons" can be applied even to any of the one-hit wonder music composer, too.
I have a feeling that I don't belong here where I hear too much of unpleasant din about some non-existent musical genius.These are the possible outcomes that I predict from now on.
One, I will not be allowed to continue.(reasons best kept secrets)
Second, as the thread evolves the heat goes unbearable. Possibly, you can't handle my comments. So, app-engine will be left with no other choice but to lock this thread.
Third, I will have to carry your burden of blame that I don't understand this thread and subsequently be shown the door rudely.
But the thing is, after all is said and done, nothing will be changed on both sides. You will still brag Raajaa is the greatest and I will continue to refuse...and we all come back to square one.
I think I have made myself very clear in my previous post especially in the last sentence.So, I don't feel the need to repeat what is already said. I understand your difficulty to type in Tamil but it doesn't matter . I don't think I can change the topic to your liking. The four dots you see after my title stand for what you don't want to read about Ilayraajaa. If that's really your bone of contention, Well, you have to bear with me.
Next, you want me to tell what I intend to analyse about his music. It's a trap, I guess. You try to pick words from my mouth and ride on your usual beaten track rather than the less travelled road. (Courtesy- Robert Frost). What I have thought to do about the best 10 songs of Ilayaraajaa depends on the songs you choose to reveal.
"Do you propose a critical study of the harmony arrangements? Perhaps an analysis of the raagams and the way they have been used? The instrumentation and dynamics? The basslines?"
I don't see any reason why you should sound so pompous. All these "highly powerful jargons" can be applied even to any of the one-hit wonder music composer, too.
I have a feeling that I don't belong here where I hear too much of unpleasant din about some non-existent musical genius.These are the possible outcomes that I predict from now on.
One, I will not be allowed to continue.(reasons best kept secrets)
Second, as the thread evolves the heat goes unbearable. Possibly, you can't handle my comments. So, app-engine will be left with no other choice but to lock this thread.
Third, I will have to carry your burden of blame that I don't understand this thread and subsequently be shown the door rudely.
But the thing is, after all is said and done, nothing will be changed on both sides. You will still brag Raajaa is the greatest and I will continue to refuse...and we all come back to square one.
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Re: இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
Usha Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:00 pm
Kaarigan,
indha webiste.. Ilaiyaraja and Beyond. Neenga address maari vandhuteenga. thappu ungalodadhu.........
indha webiste.. Ilaiyaraja and Beyond. Neenga address maari vandhuteenga. thappu ungalodadhu.........
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Re: இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
fring151 Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:54 pm
Whoa whoa Kaarigan,
So this is the reply I get from you for having attempted to genuinely engage in a conversation. I had no intention of "trapping" you. I have better things to amuse myself with. For your information, I had no idea who you were till about twenty minutes ago when I decided to check out your blog.
So words like bassline and raagam are pompous to you? There is absolutely nothing "powerful" or complex about such elementary musical notions. In fact I feel dumb even trying to justify this in a forum dedicated to discussing Ilayaraja's music. I guess the kind of criticisms you prefer to engage in are of the following variety (from your blog).
Of course there is nothing remotely half-baked, holier-than-thou or presumptuous about these sentences. Silly me, for thinking so.
Congratulations on quoting and citing Robert Frost. I am impressed. So, let me try to understand. From your dismissal of words like harmony and basslines as jargon, we can safely conclude that you have no intention of analysing the "music". Evidently, it can't be the lyrics either. I am actually intrigued about this. Can we expect more of your blog-style nitpicks like quarter-baked prelude or one-third baked interlude?
Er...how do I say this...You started this thread and I pointed out I don't understand it. How cunning of me to think you are now playing the victim card. Finally, I beg to differ on the possible outcomes to this thread. There is only one. You making a complete jackass of yourself.
So this is the reply I get from you for having attempted to genuinely engage in a conversation. I had no intention of "trapping" you. I have better things to amuse myself with. For your information, I had no idea who you were till about twenty minutes ago when I decided to check out your blog.
"Do you propose a critical study of the harmony arrangements? Perhaps an analysis of the raagams and the way they have been used? The instrumentation and dynamics? The basslines?"
I don't see any reason why you should sound so pompous. All these "highly powerful jargons" can be applied even to any of the one-hit wonder music composer, too.
So words like bassline and raagam are pompous to you? There is absolutely nothing "powerful" or complex about such elementary musical notions. In fact I feel dumb even trying to justify this in a forum dedicated to discussing Ilayaraja's music. I guess the kind of criticisms you prefer to engage in are of the following variety (from your blog).
His digital music was half-baked and very elementary.
ஒரு மிகப் பெரிய இசைப் பாரம்பரியத்தை எம் எஸ் வி க்குப் பிறகு தொடர்ந்து நடத்தி சென்றவர் நல்ல கவிதைகளைப் புறக்கணித்தது,கொச்சையான வரிகளை பாடல்களாக மாற்றியது என்று தடம் மாறிப் போனது உண்மையில் வேதனையான நிகழ்வு.
Of course there is nothing remotely half-baked, holier-than-thou or presumptuous about these sentences. Silly me, for thinking so.
Next, you want me to tell what I intend to analyse about his music. It's a trap, I guess. You try to pick words from my mouth and ride on your usual beaten track rather than the less travelled road. (Courtesy- Robert Frost). What I have thought to do about the best 10 songs of Ilayaraajaa depends on the songs you choose to reveal.
Congratulations on quoting and citing Robert Frost. I am impressed. So, let me try to understand. From your dismissal of words like harmony and basslines as jargon, we can safely conclude that you have no intention of analysing the "music". Evidently, it can't be the lyrics either. I am actually intrigued about this. Can we expect more of your blog-style nitpicks like quarter-baked prelude or one-third baked interlude?
I have a feeling that I don't belong here where I hear too much of unpleasant din about some non-existent musical genius.These are the possible outcomes that I predict from now on.
One, I will not be allowed to continue.(reasons best kept secrets)
Second, as the thread evolves the heat goes unbearable. Possibly, you can't handle my comments. So, app-engine will be left with no other choice but to lock this thread.
Third, I will have to carry your burden of blame that I don't understand this thread and subsequently be shown the door rudely.
Er...how do I say this...You started this thread and I pointed out I don't understand it. How cunning of me to think you are now playing the victim card. Finally, I beg to differ on the possible outcomes to this thread. There is only one. You making a complete jackass of yourself.
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Re: இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
plum Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:32 pm
Fring, Usha, Jai - No point discussing with someone who thinks basic music terms are pompous. It is clear such a person does not even have any idea of what he is talking about. Except for blind hatred, he doesnt have anything to offer.
Kaarigan, vent your spleen until you are satisfied. If you come up with something worth engaging, we will. Else, I am sorry to say, find a site which lacks the intellectual rigour that this forum needs. I can recommend a few if you need.
Deal?
I'll give a few more chances - if you can talk with basci sense about music atleast after 5 attempts, this thread will survive. Else, I am sorry to say, gossiping and spleen-venting forums are available elsewhere - and I am sure you are smart enough to find your way there.
Kaarigan, vent your spleen until you are satisfied. If you come up with something worth engaging, we will. Else, I am sorry to say, find a site which lacks the intellectual rigour that this forum needs. I can recommend a few if you need.
Deal?
I'll give a few more chances - if you can talk with basci sense about music atleast after 5 attempts, this thread will survive. Else, I am sorry to say, gossiping and spleen-venting forums are available elsewhere - and I am sure you are smart enough to find your way there.
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Re: இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
kaarigan Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:22 pm
plum or nerd or usha or fring or whoever you are,
I rightly predicted this would happen. You can't even begin to see what I have to say. Because you know deep in your hearts that you will burn to digest the truth of the matter.I am not mudslinging. I am not baselessly accusing anyone that you hold in high esteem. Infact I have not even started to spread my ideas about your so-called music genius of the globe.
உங்களுக்கு என் எழுத்தின் மீது பயம் இருக்கிறது என்பதை நான் உணர்ந்தே இருக்கிறேன். நான் கேட்ட கேள்விக்கு இதுவரை பதிலே இல்லை. This is what I said will happen. Why should I break my head over your absurd sense of musical analysis? I don't think you stand anywhere close to me to even discuss music in its remotest sense. You guys have no real music taste. All that you know is nothing newer than the cluttered sound of half-boiled musician called ... I think the dots will speak for themselves. Did I not prophetically assume that you can't handle my comments? I know that I started this thread.. I hoped that people could still be sensible despite their differences. and you prove me otherwise.
Before someone can jump to lock this up, I post my questions to discuss..Dare to answer them.
1. Did music die with Ilayraajaa's musical demise in the early 90's?
2.How could anyone like your raajaa fans opine that there's no one like him before or after him in terms of achievement and talent? Could you please justify that he is the only one on the planet?
3. Did Ilayraajaa not derive music from any external sources? Right from Dhanraaj master locally to Bach internationally. Does it not deprive him of your that he is a born genius?
4.Ilayraajaa did only improvise the already existing music scene in Tamil film industry and not create it. Can any one of your "highly intelligent" music "butchers" negate that to prove their point?
5. The interlude of Ilayrajaa is nothing but a colossal damage to the main music of the song. It's independent and not an accessory to it...It often kills the song than save it. Prove me wrong.
6. The so-called BGM of Ilayraajaa infact holds no candle to the talent of his yesteryear's music composers like A M Raja, S Balachander, M S Viswanaathan ...
7. Ilayaraajaa can be rightly called a erotic music composer. or shortly the porn music maker.. thanks to songs like ponmeni uruguthey (moonraam pirai), nilaa kaayuthu(sakalakalaavallavan) oororama aatthuppakkam(mauna raakam) etc.....
8.Today's generation does not even lift their finger to listen to him as some of your fans claim. I know it from my first hand experience.. How could an everlasting music of a music legend die with time?
9.If you accuse the present generation for their poverty of music taste, this same blame was on you too 30 years ago. So who is right? You? or your older generation?
10.This is my one solid question. Can music die with people who make it?
I expect that you have no answers to most of my questions.. because answering them is unlearning your music experience and taste.. I don't think you are quite ready for that life-changing event yet....
I rightly predicted this would happen. You can't even begin to see what I have to say. Because you know deep in your hearts that you will burn to digest the truth of the matter.I am not mudslinging. I am not baselessly accusing anyone that you hold in high esteem. Infact I have not even started to spread my ideas about your so-called music genius of the globe.
உங்களுக்கு என் எழுத்தின் மீது பயம் இருக்கிறது என்பதை நான் உணர்ந்தே இருக்கிறேன். நான் கேட்ட கேள்விக்கு இதுவரை பதிலே இல்லை. This is what I said will happen. Why should I break my head over your absurd sense of musical analysis? I don't think you stand anywhere close to me to even discuss music in its remotest sense. You guys have no real music taste. All that you know is nothing newer than the cluttered sound of half-boiled musician called ... I think the dots will speak for themselves. Did I not prophetically assume that you can't handle my comments? I know that I started this thread.. I hoped that people could still be sensible despite their differences. and you prove me otherwise.
Before someone can jump to lock this up, I post my questions to discuss..Dare to answer them.
1. Did music die with Ilayraajaa's musical demise in the early 90's?
2.How could anyone like your raajaa fans opine that there's no one like him before or after him in terms of achievement and talent? Could you please justify that he is the only one on the planet?
3. Did Ilayraajaa not derive music from any external sources? Right from Dhanraaj master locally to Bach internationally. Does it not deprive him of your that he is a born genius?
4.Ilayraajaa did only improvise the already existing music scene in Tamil film industry and not create it. Can any one of your "highly intelligent" music "butchers" negate that to prove their point?
5. The interlude of Ilayrajaa is nothing but a colossal damage to the main music of the song. It's independent and not an accessory to it...It often kills the song than save it. Prove me wrong.
6. The so-called BGM of Ilayraajaa infact holds no candle to the talent of his yesteryear's music composers like A M Raja, S Balachander, M S Viswanaathan ...
7. Ilayaraajaa can be rightly called a erotic music composer. or shortly the porn music maker.. thanks to songs like ponmeni uruguthey (moonraam pirai), nilaa kaayuthu(sakalakalaavallavan) oororama aatthuppakkam(mauna raakam) etc.....
8.Today's generation does not even lift their finger to listen to him as some of your fans claim. I know it from my first hand experience.. How could an everlasting music of a music legend die with time?
9.If you accuse the present generation for their poverty of music taste, this same blame was on you too 30 years ago. So who is right? You? or your older generation?
10.This is my one solid question. Can music die with people who make it?
I expect that you have no answers to most of my questions.. because answering them is unlearning your music experience and taste.. I don't think you are quite ready for that life-changing event yet....
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Re: இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
jaiganesh Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:38 pm
Wow!!
The funniest thread since the old hub's jokes section.. in all the jokes you posted - only one joke is worth answering - here again i am not answering you, but in an esoteric manner trying to unravel what it means to fans of a composer who said all it needs to be said about immortal nature of music in 'Nothing but wind's' piece 'Nothing but wind'. There is music before man and in the final flames of apocalypse a flute rolls to the floor singing out its last note and merges into the primordial. Music never dies even if all the composers leave their mortal wombs. For a composer to understand this and state it musically without words -yeah it is erotic in a supreme sense - not as your petty mind has understood.
As my final comment in this shitty thread that you have started - isai gnaani alla - avar isaye dhaan - if you dont like this answer go find your peace somewhere else - Difficult to 'educate' fools like me. Go spread your 'light' elsewhere pal.
The funniest thread since the old hub's jokes section.. in all the jokes you posted - only one joke is worth answering - here again i am not answering you, but in an esoteric manner trying to unravel what it means to fans of a composer who said all it needs to be said about immortal nature of music in 'Nothing but wind's' piece 'Nothing but wind'. There is music before man and in the final flames of apocalypse a flute rolls to the floor singing out its last note and merges into the primordial. Music never dies even if all the composers leave their mortal wombs. For a composer to understand this and state it musically without words -yeah it is erotic in a supreme sense - not as your petty mind has understood.
As my final comment in this shitty thread that you have started - isai gnaani alla - avar isaye dhaan - if you dont like this answer go find your peace somewhere else - Difficult to 'educate' fools like me. Go spread your 'light' elsewhere pal.
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Re: இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
Usha Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:43 pm
Kaarigan,
idhu dhanae ung asai. solliyacha...... idhu ellam romba arivana kelvinu nenaikareengala....... ungaloda manasu idhu.
idhuku elllam bhadhil vera edhirparkareengala..............
unga manasa solliyacha. poigitae irunga..... address maari vandhutu... enna ragalai.........
idhu dhanae ung asai. solliyacha...... idhu ellam romba arivana kelvinu nenaikareengala....... ungaloda manasu idhu.
idhuku elllam bhadhil vera edhirparkareengala..............
unga manasa solliyacha. poigitae irunga..... address maari vandhutu... enna ragalai.........
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Re: இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
fring151 Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:54 pm
I don't even know why I am responding to this. Any neutral person will agree that your previous post belongs in the dustbin and in most forums, not just music-related, you would have been banned after this. Be thankful that that you are being allowed to spout your venom here and we are actually attempting to engage you, though I now know that it is an exercise in futility to expect anything sensible from your side. And quit crying wolf about someone jumping to lock this thread or banning you. You are not that important. Don't kid yourself that your posts are taken seriously by anyone with an IQ higher than their shoe size. I will respond briefly to your 10 points in as civilized a manner as possible, though you don't deserve a civilized response. My purpose is not to convince you. I know that is impossible. It is for the record so that any future reader of this thread can discern who is being reasonable and who side is blinded by hatred and prejudice.
"1. Did music die with Ilayraajaa's musical demise in the early 90's?"
There was no "Ilayaraja's musical demise" in the early 90s. Oh..and neither did music die.
"2.How could anyone like your raajaa fans opine that there's no one like him before or after him in terms of achievement and talent? Could you please justify that he is the only one on the planet? "
You deliberately misunderstood what Jaiganesh wrote. The contention is that there is no spontaneous composer who creates such joyful, moving music based on his experiences and amalgamates such a wide range of sophisticated musical idioms without sacrificing the essence of these idioms and at the same time retaining the nativity. No other composer worldwide has achieved such a high-level union of widely differing musical forms. If you disagree, please point me to an example of a three voice counterpoint for a carnatic based melody or any equivalent work of high-level fusion.
"3. Did Ilayraajaa not derive music from any external sources? Right from Dhanraaj master locally to Bach internationally. Does it not deprive him of your that he is a born genius?"
Yes he did. As to the second part, look up the word genius in the dictionary.
" 4.Ilayraajaa did only improvise the already existing music scene in Tamil film industry and not create it. Can any one of your "highly intelligent" music "butchers" negate that to prove their point?"
No one claims he created tamil film music.
"5. The interlude of Ilayrajaa is nothing but a colossal damage to the main music of the song. It's independent and not an accessory to it...It often kills the song than save it. Prove me wrong."
This claim is so ludicrous that even most hardcore Ilayaraja haters will shy away from embarassing themselves by writing this. In any case, the burden of proof is on the claimant. I doubt, though if you grasp my logic and this is not the place to educate you on the basics of analytical reasoning.
" 6. The so-called BGM of Ilayraajaa infact holds no candle to the talent of his yesteryear's music composers like A M Raja, S Balachander, M S Viswanaathan ..."
Again, shallow baseless claim, intended to get reactions. And I have taken the bait.
"7. Ilayaraajaa can be rightly called a erotic music composer. or shortly the porn music maker.. thanks to songs like ponmeni uruguthey (moonraam pirai), nilaa kaayuthu(sakalakalaavallavan) oororama aatthuppakkam(mauna raakam) etc....."
He has composed fantastic music for erotic situations, no doubt. I personally prefer "Sivarathiri" and "Ennule Ennule" to the songs you listed.
" 8.Today's generation does not even lift their finger to listen to him as some of your fans claim. I know it from my first hand experience.. How could an everlasting music of a music legend die with time?"
Again, an arbitrary generalization with anecdotal experience conveniently thrown in to support the claim. It is futile to explain the logical fallacy inherent in that argument being as it is that you have a shockingly slim grasp on logic and reasoning.
"9.If you accuse the present generation for their poverty of music taste, this same blame was on you too 30 years ago. So who is right? You? or your older generation?"
I wasn't born 30 years ago.
"10.This is my one solid question. Can music die with people who make it?"
No
I am done. You have 4 more chances to come up with something slightly more intelligent. Seeing the alarmingly degenerating quality of your posts though, I am not exactly holding my breath.
P.S: Did I also point out that you are a TROLL if I ever knew one.
"1. Did music die with Ilayraajaa's musical demise in the early 90's?"
There was no "Ilayaraja's musical demise" in the early 90s. Oh..and neither did music die.
"2.How could anyone like your raajaa fans opine that there's no one like him before or after him in terms of achievement and talent? Could you please justify that he is the only one on the planet? "
You deliberately misunderstood what Jaiganesh wrote. The contention is that there is no spontaneous composer who creates such joyful, moving music based on his experiences and amalgamates such a wide range of sophisticated musical idioms without sacrificing the essence of these idioms and at the same time retaining the nativity. No other composer worldwide has achieved such a high-level union of widely differing musical forms. If you disagree, please point me to an example of a three voice counterpoint for a carnatic based melody or any equivalent work of high-level fusion.
"3. Did Ilayraajaa not derive music from any external sources? Right from Dhanraaj master locally to Bach internationally. Does it not deprive him of your that he is a born genius?"
Yes he did. As to the second part, look up the word genius in the dictionary.
" 4.Ilayraajaa did only improvise the already existing music scene in Tamil film industry and not create it. Can any one of your "highly intelligent" music "butchers" negate that to prove their point?"
No one claims he created tamil film music.
"5. The interlude of Ilayrajaa is nothing but a colossal damage to the main music of the song. It's independent and not an accessory to it...It often kills the song than save it. Prove me wrong."
This claim is so ludicrous that even most hardcore Ilayaraja haters will shy away from embarassing themselves by writing this. In any case, the burden of proof is on the claimant. I doubt, though if you grasp my logic and this is not the place to educate you on the basics of analytical reasoning.
" 6. The so-called BGM of Ilayraajaa infact holds no candle to the talent of his yesteryear's music composers like A M Raja, S Balachander, M S Viswanaathan ..."
Again, shallow baseless claim, intended to get reactions. And I have taken the bait.
"7. Ilayaraajaa can be rightly called a erotic music composer. or shortly the porn music maker.. thanks to songs like ponmeni uruguthey (moonraam pirai), nilaa kaayuthu(sakalakalaavallavan) oororama aatthuppakkam(mauna raakam) etc....."
He has composed fantastic music for erotic situations, no doubt. I personally prefer "Sivarathiri" and "Ennule Ennule" to the songs you listed.
" 8.Today's generation does not even lift their finger to listen to him as some of your fans claim. I know it from my first hand experience.. How could an everlasting music of a music legend die with time?"
Again, an arbitrary generalization with anecdotal experience conveniently thrown in to support the claim. It is futile to explain the logical fallacy inherent in that argument being as it is that you have a shockingly slim grasp on logic and reasoning.
"9.If you accuse the present generation for their poverty of music taste, this same blame was on you too 30 years ago. So who is right? You? or your older generation?"
I wasn't born 30 years ago.
"10.This is my one solid question. Can music die with people who make it?"
No
I am done. You have 4 more chances to come up with something slightly more intelligent. Seeing the alarmingly degenerating quality of your posts though, I am not exactly holding my breath.
P.S: Did I also point out that you are a TROLL if I ever knew one.
Last edited by fring151 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
jaiganesh Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:00 pm
Fring - you are a great!! ivvLo porumayaa?
robot rajini maadhiri ranguskiyoda kooda pesureengaLe neenga!! Dheivame!!
robot rajini maadhiri ranguskiyoda kooda pesureengaLe neenga!! Dheivame!!
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Re: இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
fring151 Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:06 pm
Hahaha, Jaiganesh saar..slow day at work.
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Re: இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
kaarigan Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:59 am
Mr,Fring,
You call these answers? I'm amused to death. The questions remain unanswered.
You seemed to be in a hurry to close shop for the day. I AM also waiting to see some logical, sensible and "intelligent" responses which do not anywhere surface in your post. Thanks for using very "civilised" comments. What more can one expect from raajaa fans who think with their foot (I think I got it right. You've said something about IQ and the shoe size..)
I don't involve myself in any kind of character assassination. I still believe things can get better between us but you don't let them.
Why must you give me five of four chances to prove my intelligence? I don't quite understand what YOU mean by intelligence in the first place. Draw your definition. It's futile talking to you, you are an infant. You have a very long way to go to even begin to comment on music, I guess. Possibly what you'd have heard as music in your entire life is very little...It doesn't amount to anything close to what I had heard in your age... and you're not the one whom I should be talking to... You don't deserve my words, I suppose. How hostile you people already are even before reading my post. You visited my blog and could come back here with a single sentence on ilayaraajaa which caters to your pervert thinking and you have the audacity to call me a Troll? Infact, I'd be surprised if you guys didn't get mad at me..
I know the temperature is rising.. (I wish my internet connection was stable...) I feel it's highly pretentious and an act of hypocrisy to comment in English on the man who "brought back Tamil breeze and turned Tamil ears to listen to the songs of the soil.."
I know you will go on counting down like a rocket scientist (what else is possible?)
to prove your "honesty and patience" that you are "graciously" showing on me. And I must be thankful to it... I started this and now you are calling the shots... Did I not say it's a trap and you can only find yourselves on your usual beaten track..?Just come out of your comfort zone and view the world without glasses..(Honestly, there's no pun intended.)
You call these answers? I'm amused to death. The questions remain unanswered.
You seemed to be in a hurry to close shop for the day. I AM also waiting to see some logical, sensible and "intelligent" responses which do not anywhere surface in your post. Thanks for using very "civilised" comments. What more can one expect from raajaa fans who think with their foot (I think I got it right. You've said something about IQ and the shoe size..)
I don't involve myself in any kind of character assassination. I still believe things can get better between us but you don't let them.
Why must you give me five of four chances to prove my intelligence? I don't quite understand what YOU mean by intelligence in the first place. Draw your definition. It's futile talking to you, you are an infant. You have a very long way to go to even begin to comment on music, I guess. Possibly what you'd have heard as music in your entire life is very little...It doesn't amount to anything close to what I had heard in your age... and you're not the one whom I should be talking to... You don't deserve my words, I suppose. How hostile you people already are even before reading my post. You visited my blog and could come back here with a single sentence on ilayaraajaa which caters to your pervert thinking and you have the audacity to call me a Troll? Infact, I'd be surprised if you guys didn't get mad at me..
I know the temperature is rising.. (I wish my internet connection was stable...) I feel it's highly pretentious and an act of hypocrisy to comment in English on the man who "brought back Tamil breeze and turned Tamil ears to listen to the songs of the soil.."
I know you will go on counting down like a rocket scientist (what else is possible?)
to prove your "honesty and patience" that you are "graciously" showing on me. And I must be thankful to it... I started this and now you are calling the shots... Did I not say it's a trap and you can only find yourselves on your usual beaten track..?Just come out of your comfort zone and view the world without glasses..(Honestly, there's no pun intended.)
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Re: இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
plum Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:13 am
Dear Kaarigan, you are trying to reduce this discussion to a level you can understand - basically, mud slinging. You are not going to get it.
You are welcome to twist it any which way you want.
We have place for the discerning.
I'll still keep my promise.
Five chances.
One down.
You are welcome to twist it any which way you want.
We have place for the discerning.
I'll still keep my promise.
Five chances.
One down.
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Re: இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
plum Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:14 am
" and you're not the one whom I should be talking to... You don't deserve my words, I suppose"
Maybe. In which case, the Door is over there.
Maybe. In which case, the Door is over there.
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Re: இசை ஞானியா அல்லது ....
thiruvizha Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:30 am
திரு காரிகன்.. உங்க வழிக்கே வருகிறேன்..
1) வாட வாட்டுது
2) சாமக்கோழி கூவுதம்மா
3) கடலோரம் கடலோரம்
4) காட்டுவழி போற பொன்னே
5) ஜனனி ஜனனி
6) உன் குத்தமா என் குத்தமா
7) எங்கே செல்லும் இந்தப் பாதை
8 ) ஒரு குண்டுமணி
9) என் தாயேனும் கோயிலை
10) தென்னமரத்துல தென்றலடிக்குது
இசையறிவு கொஞ்சமும் தேவையில்லை.. மேற்கண்ட பாடல்களில் பெறக்கூடிய மண்மணம், உணர்ச்சிக் குவியல்கள் வேறெந்த இசையமைப்பாளர்களின் ஆக்கங்களிடமிருந்தும் (ராஜாவிற்கு முன்னும் பின்னும்) நான் காணாதது. இந்த பத்தையும் கேட்டுப்பாருங்கள். ஒரு தலைசிறந்த பாடகர் உங்கள் ஆழ்மனதில் சம்மணமிட்டு உட்காருவார். ஆக்கமும் அவரே. பாடியவரும் அவரே.. இதற்கு மேலும் அந்த ஒப்பற்றவரின் இசை மேதைமையை பறைசாற்ற எப்படி உங்களுக்கு விளக்கம் வேண்டும்? இதற்கு பதில் சொல்லும்போது, நிகரானவர்கள் என உங்களுக்கு யார் தோன்றினாலும் அவர்களே பாடிய பாடல்களிலிருந்து சிறந்த பத்தினை எடுத்துவரவும். அது உங்களுக்கு நான் வைக்கும் வீட்டுவேலை. நான் கொடுத்தப் பட்டியலில் இடம்பெறும் உணர்ச்சிகளின் பன்முகத்தன்மை நீங்கள் கொடுக்கப்போகும் பட்டியலில் இனங்காண முடிகிறதா என பார்ப்போம்! சவால்!
1) வாட வாட்டுது
2) சாமக்கோழி கூவுதம்மா
3) கடலோரம் கடலோரம்
4) காட்டுவழி போற பொன்னே
5) ஜனனி ஜனனி
6) உன் குத்தமா என் குத்தமா
7) எங்கே செல்லும் இந்தப் பாதை
8 ) ஒரு குண்டுமணி
9) என் தாயேனும் கோயிலை
10) தென்னமரத்துல தென்றலடிக்குது
இசையறிவு கொஞ்சமும் தேவையில்லை.. மேற்கண்ட பாடல்களில் பெறக்கூடிய மண்மணம், உணர்ச்சிக் குவியல்கள் வேறெந்த இசையமைப்பாளர்களின் ஆக்கங்களிடமிருந்தும் (ராஜாவிற்கு முன்னும் பின்னும்) நான் காணாதது. இந்த பத்தையும் கேட்டுப்பாருங்கள். ஒரு தலைசிறந்த பாடகர் உங்கள் ஆழ்மனதில் சம்மணமிட்டு உட்காருவார். ஆக்கமும் அவரே. பாடியவரும் அவரே.. இதற்கு மேலும் அந்த ஒப்பற்றவரின் இசை மேதைமையை பறைசாற்ற எப்படி உங்களுக்கு விளக்கம் வேண்டும்? இதற்கு பதில் சொல்லும்போது, நிகரானவர்கள் என உங்களுக்கு யார் தோன்றினாலும் அவர்களே பாடிய பாடல்களிலிருந்து சிறந்த பத்தினை எடுத்துவரவும். அது உங்களுக்கு நான் வைக்கும் வீட்டுவேலை. நான் கொடுத்தப் பட்டியலில் இடம்பெறும் உணர்ச்சிகளின் பன்முகத்தன்மை நீங்கள் கொடுக்கப்போகும் பட்டியலில் இனங்காண முடிகிறதா என பார்ப்போம்! சவால்!
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