Endharo mahAnubhavulu - mahANubhAvulakki mahAnubhavudu Ilaiyaraja - Raja in Telugu

It's high time we started this. Thanks to a little push from our app_engine and sakalakalakavallavar vijay with the following twitter conversation & link

http://www.allbestsongs.com/telugu_songs/articles/ir_full_chapter.pdf

Mr raaga_suresh & kamalaakarsh, please take up translation of this as an assignment. vArathukku oru chapter paNNungo.

Meanwhile, I will perform the easy task of transferring over our sotthukkaL from previous graham here.

Thanks plum for starting this thread. Same way if you and App ji can start the IR malayalam thread too especially to understand the nuances in lyrics, it would be great.

V_S wrote: to understand the nuances in lyrics

enna ji, ennaippAththA ungaLukkup pAvamA illaiyA?

Remember I tried a little bit in the hub (in the Indian films section) to translate 'A rAthri mAnju pOyi' for RR sir? It is TOO DIFFICULT an exercise for me to dwell in Malayalam lyrics

For many reasons :

a) If on a day-to-day conversation MalayaLees use 60-70% Thamizh words mixed with 30-40% Sanskrit words, in literary form they switch around! And, it gets worse in poems - sometimes to 80-20 ratio My Sanskrit vocabulary is so limited (to everyday words used in Malayalam, that are common even in old maNipravALa Thamizh, like sthree & vasthram )

b) There are supposed to be "layers" to be uncovered and appreciated. Which is difficult for me even in Thamizh poetry, let alone with complicated vadamozhi wordplay

c) Though I've lived in Palakkad for 16+ years, there had still been an enormous amount of local cultural nuances, anecdotal references and such not learnt - which coudn't possibly be understood by an "outsider" in a lifetime - despite being down-to-earth, mingling with them to the max extent possible etc. (Well, even the sons-of-soil may not know everything about every part of Kerala!) And these songs are packed full of such intricate details and it would take multiple PhD level researches to appreciate them

That being said, I definitely welcome opening a thread for IR's MFM (in the IR section)

I can take up the typical collecting / documenting / reporting kind of job (also, gathering info from Malayalam sites / transliterate etc)...The real serious appreciation of poetry should be done by someone proficient in vadamozhi (plum, Sureshji...)

Thanks app ji. Not a problem, I understand its complexities. IR's Malayalam songs deserves a thread even if don't analyze the lyrics part of it that much.

plum wrote:It's high time we started this. Thanks to a little push from our app_engine and sakalakalakavallavar vijay with the following twitter conversation & link

http://www.allbestsongs.com/telugu_songs/articles/ir_full_chapter.pdf

Mr raaga_suresh & kamalaakarsh, please take up translation of this as an assignment.

There is nothing new there. It is just his biography. There is nothing that you do not know here. All anecdotes have been already shared, covered etc. May be the chapter by Vamsy could be interesting, but from what I read there, even they have been covered on TV.

Looks like the writer knows as much as us, Nothing more, nothing less.

Alright, I'll kick-off:

Unformatted copy paste from 365rajaquiz blog of a few thoughts on Vatapathra sayi, Thakita thadhimi and Varam thandha saami:

Will reorganise and put a coherent, edited post later:

1. rajsaid:
   June 19, 2013 at 2:28 am
   Ok, now I have to register my protest against giving credit to Mairavuthu for the lyrics in this song, in detail.
   1. The basic theme of the first stanza talking about Divine Mothers Singing Laali to Their Divine Offsprings(Kausalya-Rama, Yashoda-Yadhu Vamsa Vibhu-Krishna< + running out of Divine Mothers, there is a digression to Giritanaya and paramatma himself), and the second stanza about vAgyEkAras – namely, Annamayya, Gopayya, Shyamayya(Shyama Shastri presumably) and the crowning glory, ofcourse, si Thyagaraja himself)
   This theme is inherent in the telugu lyrics. There was now way VM could have diluted the impact of this
   Note: In Thakita Thadhimi from Saagara Sangamam, Veturi gAru would have encapsulated the basic philosophy of the character 'Balakrishna Sastri' in
   narudi brathuku natana
   eeswaridi thalapu gatana
   aa rendi natta nadumA
   neekkendhuk intha thapanA?
   (Man's fate is but to dance
   To the Divine Tune, His Hands write your events
   Juxtaposed between these, what makes you restless about your fate?)
   Apart from the beautiful way the words sit on the tune and provide what I call lyrical flourish, the thoughts are consistent with Balakrishna's fatalistic approach to life, submitting to his fate when Prada's past lover showed up, letting him walk away with his love. He bitterly regrets it, but has also swallowed the pain, which expresses itself in such fatalistic philosophical thoughts.
   VM translated this as
   ulaga vaazhkai nadanam
   nee oppukonda payanam
   adhu mudiyum bodhu thodangaum
   nee thodangum bodhu mudiyum
   Sort of surface-leve exhilirating but lacking the punch and natural usage of words in teh telugu version – Veturi's lyrics come out as exactly an artist of Balakrishna Sastry's background will think. Ulaga vAzhkkai nadanam is a contrived phrase, lacking the taut aptness of narudi brathuku natana. natanA, in telugu, apart from meaning Dance, also is used to refer to a sort of helplessness commonly. ulaga vAzhkai nadanam is hopelessly contrived specially for this song and is so unnatural coming from Balakrishna Sastri's mouth
   nee thodangum bodhu mudiyum, mudium bodhu thodarm is the sort of pudhukavidhai gibberish that 3rd year arts colleve kavignars come up with. OTOH, aa rendi natta nadumA neekendhukintha thapanA beautifully encapsulates the bitterness which Sastri's fatalistic philosophy is coated with.(and which reflects in his behaviour after his dreams die both professionaly and personally. Despite his love for Sarathbabu and his wife, he cannot get h imself to change his ways which cause so much grief to them, Having made a grand thyagam gesture, which si basically driven by his fatalistic nature, he is also bitter about it, and while he continues to spout the fatalistic philosophy justifying his choices, he also exhibits the bitterness associated)
   Vairamuthu's weak, lame lyrics in tamil come nowhere near the simplicity, sonorousness and capturing the character's essence as Veturi's.
   REPLY
   
   
2. rajsaid:
   June 19, 2013 at 2:52 am
   Why I digressed into Thakita Thadhimi was to show that VM, with his rationalist roots, tried to play down the fatalistic, irrational characterisation of Balakrishna SastrigaL in Saagara Sangamam. In doing so, he not only took away the basis of the character, but also provided some lame, weak lyrics which refused to sit on the tune as sonorously and seamlessly as the telugu ones.
   This being the case, I wouldn’t have been surprised if VM tried to wriggle away from the Divine Mother, Divine Vagyekaras theme of Laali Laali. But he didnt/ And that’s because, he couldn’t. There is no way he could have diluted that simplistic and graceful approach.
   Ok, now let’s dissect Varam Thandha Saamikku
   Varam Thandha Saamikku
   PadhamAna(sic) Laali
   Raajadhi Rajanukku
   IdhamAna laali
   adhu enna padhamAna laali? Fridgela vechu koduthArA? idhamAna laali? meaning wise fine, but sounds odd to me.
   In Telugu,
   Vatapathra Saayikku
   VarahAla Laali
   Rajeeva Nethruniki
   RatanalA laali
   Again, meaning wise, laali made of gems(ratanala lali), made of jewels(varahAla laali) dont make much sense but atleast less amusing than padhamAna padhani, idhamAna iLanee 
   And a bland Raajadhi Rajanuku for Rajeeva Nethuniki(One with Eyes like Lotus), obviously the telugu version is more ornamental. And dont even talk about sonorousness and lyrical flourish – the way the lyrics sit on the tune. I would say maybe we cant blame VM, Sundara Telungu rules!!
   Also, note the ornamental theme consistently in the pallavi
   VaTapatra (Banyan Leaf) saayiki (Vishnu) Varahaala (made of Jewels) laali
   raajeeva nEtruniki (Lotus Eyed, Sri Rama ) Ratanaala (made of gems) laali
   muripaala (lovable rascal) Krishnuniki (Krishna) mutyala (pearls) laali
   jagamElu swamiki (ruler of the universe) pagaDaala (corals) laali
   “Here is a lullaby of jewels to the baby Vishnu
   lying on a Banyan leaf,
   a lullaby made of gems to the Lotus Eyed boy Rama ,
   a lullaby made of pearls to the lovable rascal Krishna,
   and a song of corals to the ruler of the universe“
   Pearls, Corals, Gems, jewels.
   There is a bit of Diamandu’s algorithimic approach in this song – jewels and gems in pallavi, Divine Mothers listing in First Stanza, VagyekArA listing in Second stanza.
   But the way Dr C Narayana Reddy(apologies, I thought it was Veturi but it turns out it was CeeNaRe) has chosen his words sonorusly, and seamlessly makes the difference.
   KurumbAna kannanukku will never have the same effect as muripAla krishnuniniki (which gives a lovable rascal sort of meaning, blame tamil language for this)
   Now, let’s come to the most LOL word chosen by Diamandu
   jegam pORRUm Devanukku VAGAIYANA laali
   ROTFL at vagaiyAna..vagai thogai..ennayyA idhu?
   (just because word play can be done saara pathu pesum bodhu saara kathu-nu ezhudhinavar dhAnE?)
   And more stumble in the first stanza when suddenly Lord Muruga makes an entry in the clearly Vishnu-themed song
   kalyaana raamanukku kousalyai naanae
   kalyaana raamanukku kausalyai naanae
   yadhu vamsa veeranukku yesOdhai naanae
   yadhu vamsa vIranukku yesOdhai naanae
   karu yaanai muganukku…
   karu yaanai muganukku malaiyannai naanae
   karu yaanai muganukku malaiyannai naanae
   paar pOttrum muruganukkup paarvathiyum naanae
   Why Murugan? The background of the characters is vaishnavite, and that’s where VM failed to understand the cultural nuances of the movie.
   ipdi oNNa reNdA oRAyiram thappulu
   REPLY
   
   
3. rajsaid:
   June 19, 2013 at 2:54 am
   idhaiyellAm En ivLo solREnnA…
   sariyAna pAttukku mannar parisaLiththAl mudhalil sandhOshapadubavanum nAn dhAn
   thavaRAna pAdalukku parisiaLiththAl mudhalil kELvi kEppadhum nAn dhAn
   ingu ellAmE neer dhAnA-nu kEttA adhukkellAm badhil solla mAtten 
   REPLY
   
   
4. rajsaid:
   June 19, 2013 at 3:00 am
   Another nuance in the telugu vs tamil of Thakita thadhimi
   The pallavi goes
   “…thadabadu adugulu thappani THALA-nA
   thadisina pedhavula rEgina RAGA-nA
   ”
   Our man translates it as
   “…irudhayam adikkadi thudithida marakkudhu enbEnA
   ….en kadhai ezhudhida maRakkudhu en pEnA”
   Again saarakathu type word play – exhilirating at surface level but dig deeper, just empty gas.
   Now, look at why Thalam and Ragam in the telugu lyrics are important.
   In a subsequent stanza, when the palalvi is sung again, SPB goes
   “thadabadu adugulu thappani..tharigidathom tharigidathom
   thadisina pedhavula regina..aaaaaa aaa aaa”
   That is, he delightfully substitutes an actual thalam for the word thala, and a aa aa aa rendering of ragam to susbtitute the word ragam.
   And the next like “shruthini layani okati chesi” underlines the previous two lines and ties them up. (shruti and Layam together make up a thillana, right?)
   Now, sing the tamil version with “..enbEna, tharigidathom, ..en pEna, aa aa aa”, sambandhamE illAma tharigidathom and aa aa aa come there without adding any value to the lyrics
   REPLY
   
   
5. rajsaid:
   June 19, 2013 at 3:00 am
   I mean an actual thala jadhi, and a mini raga aalapana when I say actual thalam and actual ragam, ofcourse
   REPLY
   
   
6. rajsaid:
   June 19, 2013 at 3:04 am
   This is one of my pet peeves. Lyricists like Sirivennela Sitarama Sastry, Veturi Sundararama Murthy, even Dr C Narayana Reddy, haven’t received 1/10th the recognition of someone like Vairamuthu when (aided by their musical mother tongue), they have produced stunning lyrics, which not only have depth of meaning, but also brilliant sonorousness and tune-compatibility of lyrics. Besides, they also write for the character instead of imposing their personality on the character.
   With that, I get a starting point for the Telugu lyrics thread that I promised @maestrosworld and @r_inba that I will start in ilayaraja forum. Let me see how much fuel I get more from @irexarul for this 
   REPLY
   
   
7. rajsaid:
   June 19, 2013 at 3:22 am
   One more point to note is:
   Vatapathra Sayi is the infant vishnu, contained in a small banyan leaf. ivarukku laali pAdinA nyAyam irukku
   Varam Thandha Sami = All powerful ominscient Grown up Vishnu, ivarukku lAlI-nA MGR in Varalakshmi’s madi in Indha PachaikiLikkoru dhAn gnAbagam varudhu
   REPLY
   

WOW, what a lovely (comparitive) analysis!

mikka nanRi plum, for publishing it here...I wasn't able to go to the link you posted on twitter.

Now, let’s come to the most LOL word chosen by Diamandu
jegam pORRUm Devanukku VAGAIYANA laali
ROTFL at vagaiyAna..vagai thogai..ennayyA idhu?
(just because word play can be done saara pathu pesum bodhu saara kathu-nu ezhudhinavar dhAnE?)

Ofcourse, telugu has an inherent advantage of lending itself to musical phrases more readily. Tamil fanatics will kill us but Bharathiyar sonnAr. avar sonnAr enbadhaRkAga illai, in my experience, after a long acquaintace with both languages, I have felt the same.

But this doesnt excuse Vairamuthu for the shoddy lyrics.

Again, I wouldnt highlight this if  not for this being an inherent flaw in his method - it is his nature to look for superficial word play and what I call surface-level sophomre exhilaration effect. And while it doesnt get showed up badly elsewhere, there are comparisons like this where it is pallilichufying

Plum,

Nice posts. Enjoyed reading them.

While we heap praises on Veturi and Sirivennela, I came across a song with interesting lyrics by a lesser known/famous lyricist named Bhuvanachandra. Bhuvanachandra shot to fame with lot of dubbed songs (Rahman's Tamil albums such as Kadhal Desam) and I am not that familiar with Bhuvanachandra original Telugu lyrics. So I really cannot comment on his calibre as such. But the dubbed versions were not that impressive to me and I never took his lyrics seriously. 

But when I realized that one of my favourite telugu raaja songs is written by Bhuvanachandra, that too for a K.Vishwanath film (which is surprising), I sat up. The song is "Jaaji malli thella cheera" from K.Vishwanath's Chinnabbaayi (a box office dud; the film itself was boring, i heard). The song is a beautiful composition with shades of Raag Pathdeep. Raaja has given some peppy background to this melody. Foot-tapping rhythm and chords.  Listen to the song here: http://www.hungama.com/music/song-jaji-malli-tella-cheera/1523994 

Here are the lyrics and translation (very very loose translation). I had to equate some of the meanings to what the words intend instead of direct word-to-word meaning, because thats the actual effect in the song (the writer trying to convey).

I don't know what is the situation in the film but I understand that this is a love song (duet). A couple is singing, probably just before their wedding. They are happy that they found each other and the songs lyrics are mostly about how they feel about each other (similies used to praise each other).


Jaaji-malli thella cheera kattukunte,
Jaabilamma vennela poolu pettukunte..
Nuvve nuvve.. adhi nuvve nuvvenamma noorupaallu
ninu choodaalante chaalavamma rendu kallu
(The white jasmine flower, if it decks itself in a white saree,
the moon, if it decks the flowers of moonlight in its plait,
they look exactly like you, 100%..
and two eyes are not enough to behold your beauty)

Sandepoddhe o muddu paata paadukunte,
saagaraale sandhitlo vaali ponguthunte,
Nuvve nuvve.. adhi nuvve nuvvenanta noorupaallu
ninu choodaalante chaalavanta rendu kallu
(The dawn, when it sings a lovely song for itself,
the oceans, when they are brimming with joy..
they look exactly like you, 100%..
and two eyes are not enough to behold your beauty)

Guvva goodu dhaati, nee pakkakosthe
Gunde muvva meeti kattesukovaa..
Vanne ompulannee odikekkuthunte,
Kanne kempulannee mudi pettukonaa..
Nee Konte-choopulannee pogu-chesi..
Sarikottha koka-nesi icchukunte,
Madhuparkaale kaava avi muddula bullemma,
manasuna challaga mroge toli mangala-vaadyaalammaa..
Jaaji malli....
(if I cross-over and come near you, [loose translation]
tune the bells of your heart and tie me to it..
(not able to translate this line)
my young shy smiles, i shall bunch together..
Your naughty glances at me, i shall collect them all
and weave them into a dress to gift myself..
Aren't they Madhuparkams (bridal dress) my lovely lady,
they are like the auspicious wedding songs that play out in hearts...)

Siggu-paggalannee thenchesukunte,
Bugga niggulannee panchesukonaa..
Vennu meedha vaali ooyalavaithe,
vennapoosa laanti vayyaaraveena
Chali manta vesukunna chandamaama,
toli muddu paayasaalu kaachivamma,
Chukkala chekkili thaake, chiru mabbuvi neevanta, {chukkala chekkili - interesting wordplay. meaning=cheeks of stars}
akkuna taanaalaadae pasi chinukuni nenanta..
(shall I for a moment unshackle myself from all hesitations
and play with your cheeks [loose translation]
when I lean on your back and you swing...
it feels like music of veena as sweet as butter.. [can't get exactly what this means]
O moon, you are sitting by the bon-fire in this cold,
why don't you warm the nectars of first kiss...
you are the new cloud caressing the cheeks of stars,
while I am the just born rain-drop showering from you..)

Jaaji malli.....

{SPB's lines remain as they were in pallavi, Chitra's lines change slightly here..}

Sande-poddhe o manchi maata cheppi pothe
saagaraale sandhitlo pongi saakshulaithe..
(the dawn, when it tells me a good word(news) and leaves..
oceans..when they brim out and witness...)

The brilliance of Raaja is this. He could have ended the song here. But no, he adds this extra-bit, almost like an aalaap piece.. with all the other music stopped completely for a moment...so that the culminating final thought of the girl is communicated in unadulterated manner. What is that thought? Here:

Nadipinchu nannu yedaduguloo,
neetho.. nenu-nadichi vachenu.. yededu janmalu..
(take me with you..when you walk those 7 steps [marriage]
with you, i shall continue to walk.. for 7 lives...)

Jaaji Malli.... 

And that flute which plays almost like an aalaap again, bringing this wonderful composition to a closure. 


I can add the following as my humble ode to raaja's music:

kuripinchu naapai.. nee yedu (sapta) swaraalu...
nee sangeethamlo thadisi nenu.. naa yedu tharaalu..

(shower on me, your seven notes (music)...
drenched in your music, i... and my next 7 generations too..)

 Kamal Akarsh!

Though I don't understand Telugu, I love your verses (translation) & the song!

Thank you!!

plumOne more point to note is: wrote:

1. Vatapathra Sayi is the infant vishnu, contained in a small banyan leaf. ivarukku laali pAdinA nyAyam irukku
   Varam Thandha Sami = All powerful ominscient Grown up Vishnu, ivarukku lAlI-nA MGR in Varalakshmi’s madi in Indha PachaikiLikkoru dhAn gnAbagam varudhu
   REPLY
   

 Plum saar,

First up,  This was an excellent comparison. Some theories I have been having on VM myself (who I feel is definitely good, but nowhere near a Kannadasan, and is generally overrated by the masses, and is called KavippErarasu where K'dasan is a Kaviarasu) find credence here. andha sandhOsham num sollalAm   and  at your knowledge.

But just one nitpick. Quoted here is Vatapathra Sayi and Varam Thandha Sami comparison. But doesn't the same Narayana Reddy also say jagamElu swamiki pagaDaala laali? As in, a lullaby in corals for the Lord of the Universe (neenga andha line la mattum song nu pOtteenga unga translation la  ) idhu mattum konjam harsh aa irundhudhu. But otherwise,  

Kamal Akarsh,
  Introduced me to this lovely song. Thanks.

Munk - enakku eppOvum agenda siladhu uNdu. adhunAla I leave it to you guys to find these mistakes in non-VM ppl ;-). arjunan mAdhiri enakku orE kuRi

Vishnubotlaji - can you embed the youtube of this song here in this thread? Thing is the comp I can view youtube on doesnt have sound, and in the one I have sound, cant access Youtube directly, If you embed it here, I can view and hear it.

plum wrote:Vishnubotlaji - can you embed the youtube of this song here in this thread? Thing is the comp I can view youtube on doesnt have sound, and in the one I have sound, cant access Youtube directly, If you embed it here, I can view and hear it.

 Here is the video:



I am also watching the song for the first time and I now realize why this film bombed 

plum wrote:arjunan mAdhiri enakku orE kuRi

 

I need a help from you guys. Would like to have a list of College based songs of IR in telugu. I know only couple as I have not seen telugu movies. I remember Shiva (1989), Geetanjali as these were dubbed. I definitely hope there are some Chiru, Venkatesh movies which were college based. Can you please help me list out?

V_S wrote:I need a help from you guys. Would like to have a list of College based songs of IR in telugu. I know only couple as I have not seen telugu movies. I remember Shiva (1989), Geetanjali as these were dubbed. I definitely hope there are some Chiru, Venkatesh movies which were college based. Can you please help me list out?

nirnayam (remade as sambhavam) has one college based song oh paapulo).
Maharishi's world famous sanskrit disco was a college based number

1. Botany Paatam (Shiva)
2. Paalu paapalu (Nirnayam) - teasing song shot in college
3. College age lo (Indrudu chandrudu) - song on college life
4. Veyyinnokka Jillala (Surya IPS) - college guys teasing heroine
5. Vayase vasanthaalaadu (Chaitanya) - Not sure, but lyrics hint at it
6. Sanskrit Disco (Maharshi)

Thanks Jai and Aarkarsh. Sorry, I am seeing this only now.

Mesmerized by this song today, but I was only listening to thamizh version by Mano and Chitra (naan thappu seithaal enna), as I was hunting for the telugu original. I knew telugu would have SPB and S Janaki.  Could not find the audio link, as usual video didn't impress, the quality of audio in the video is also not that good, still very seducing song, not to be missed. Look out for bass guitar opening and the acoustic drum punches. Unique rhythm arrangements. We would not recognize when the charanam ends and how pallavi starts again, as if it is a continuous line. Is it chakravaagam? If so, then there is double surprise choosing this raagam for an erotic song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve_wHmqngq4

Thamizh equivalent
http://www.raaga.com/play/?id=264661

VS,
  Dharmavathi  dhan idhu..........

vaanavillae vaanavilae   paatu madhirii thonumae kaekum podhae.....

Dharmavathi from IR.......... always Haunting one.............

ethanai variety. Great MD.......

Dharmavathi Anbe Vaani Sooryan (Malayalam)
Dharmavathi Yem Debba Theesyaavuraa Ashwamedham (Telugu)
Dharmavathi Ennulle Yetho Yengum Geetham Rosappu Ravikkakaari
Dharmavathi ilam Solai Poothadhal Unakaagavae Vazhgiren (total music…PERIOD)
Dharmavathi Meendum Meendum Vikram 
Dharmavathi Natarajan Kudi Konda Salangayil Oru Sangeetham 
Dharmavathi Shaaradenthu Paadi Kaliyoonjal (Malayalam)
Dharmavathi Vaadagai Veedidhu Paadatha Theneekal 
Dharmavathi Vaanaville Vaanaville Ramana 
Dharmavathi Vaazhvae Maayama Gayathri 

Thank you Usha ji. Now I get the connection of the raagam. Beautiful song. Yes Maestro has scored number of songs in Dharmavathi raagam.

Marana mruthangam    Sarigama padasina

Ragalai tempo... Ragalai Guitar........ only for Telugu........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzTNM76dMsU

Uploaded telugu version of neelakkuyilE unnOduthaan paN paaduvEn. So different to listen in Yesudas voice having used to listen in SPB and S Janaki voices. Song name: prema nidhiki viralamu from Sahasame Jeevitham (1984). Balakrishna, Viji starrer. I think it is a remake of Panneer PushpangaL movie (as I read this movie was directed by Bharathi-Vasu), please confirm.