Super Singer - Singers of the future

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Post  crimson king on Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:40 am

I am curious too.  I have heard a variety of versions.  One, that VM blamed IR for bringing computer music into Tamil culture (er, Punnagai Mannan) and that was it.  Another, that IR used VM's lyrics for a TV serial and credited himself.  The first version sounds more likely to me because VM said something like this about ARR too.  But ARR called him his big brother and all and made peace with him.  

I have a cable problem and have not been able to watch these episodes (except the first and second, i.e. Kannadasan).  I am curious what all did diamond say.  I love the argument that VM fanatics make to accuse IR of ego - that he fell out with them because he was too big to get along with him and thereafter his music suffered.  Love it because it is totally not based in facts.  Some of the songs Vaali wrote after IR fell out with VM are among my favourite lyrics of his - Mandram Vandha, Unnai Ninachen, Nalam Vaazha.  The landmark films of the other supposed IR-enhancer MR were made after the split.  Unnal Mudiyum Thambi was after the split.  Yes, the fact that by the early 90s, IR did not work with MR, BR, KB, Rajini (after Veera) did not help him get the big projects he needed to stay on top commercially.  But it's not necessary that this was all his doing. News flash, Rafi fell out with Lata, Kalyanji Anandji, Khaiyyam and some other folks too and there are few people in the industry as modest and gentle as Rafi, going by various accounts (ironically he was friends with Kishore, the man the media took to be his bete noir).  People may fight, nothing to see there, move on.

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Post  app_engine on Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:11 am

crimson king wrote:I am curious too.  
What VM himself wrote in his book is in many blogs...one of the links is this (scroll to bottom):
http://cinema.nakkheeran.in/Talkies.aspx?T=442

I've earlier posted this in the VM thread of IR section too.

As per this there was a serious saNdai and IR sent vakkeel notice to VM Shocked

Just for info : IR sent vakkeel notice to another fellow (Gunasekaran I think) for talking about IR's caste...so, there can be wild guesses in that line...

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Post  V_S on Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:28 am

Today's episode was more memorable. Thoroughly moved when VM described how naadham en jeevanE was born with SJ and IR. What a composition! Same way he was so happy when he said IR hugged him for aayiram thaamarai mottukkaLE. He also told how and why it may not be possible with the combination again. I agree there. Even yesterday he described enna saththam intha nEram as the best song of yesterday and today he completed with his first song all by IR. He shared his best experiences only with IR songs, in addition to narumugaiyE where he explained how he incorporated 'sanga ilakkiyam' language in that song, in an amusing way.

Song selections too were very impressive today. Right from narumugaiyE, poo vaasam, naadham en jeevanE top notch songs. Sonia sang well, but somehow I didn't like the way she pronounces certain words and she is not opening her mouth especially the ending syllables which sounds very contrived and unnatural.

Original: 
நாதம் என் ஜீவனே வா வா என் தேவனே 
உன்தன் ராஜ ராகம் பாடும் நேரம் 
பாறை பாலூறுதே ஓ பூவும் ஆளானதே 

Sonia sings:
நாதம் என் ஜீவனஎஅஎ வா வா என் தேவனஎஅஎ (something like this she sings)
உன்தன் ராஜ ராகம் பாடும் நேரம்  
பாறை பாலூறுதஎஅஎ ஓ பூவும் ஆளானதஎஅஎ 


She does something to 'oo', 'yE' 'O' 'aa' syllables sounds very mushy, not properly pronounced, very hard on my ears.

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Post  fring151 on Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:48 am

app_engine wrote:
crimson king wrote:I am curious too.  
What VM himself wrote in his book is in many blogs...one of the links is this (scroll to bottom):
http://cinema.nakkheeran.in/Talkies.aspx?T=442


I've earlier posted this in the VM thread of IR section too.

As per this there was a serious saNdai and IR sent vakkeel notice to VM Shocked

Just for info : IR sent vakkeel notice to another fellow (Gunasekaran I think) for talking about IR's caste...so, there can be wild guesses in that line...
Read the whole'poem'. Wow that's some serious stuff right there!! I had no idea. But he doesn't reveal what the notice was for. Where there is smoke there must be fire? Not that these off-field matters concern me much, but still surprising that matters had come to such a head. Seems to be far worse than MR,KB,BR fights.

Edit: App saar, what about IR's side of the story? Has he or anybody else given any hints anywhere?


Last edited by fring151 on Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:24 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post  fring151 on Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:50 am

crimson king wrote:I am curious too.  I have heard a variety of versions.  One, that VM blamed IR for bringing computer music into Tamil culture (er, Punnagai Mannan) and that was it.  Another, that IR used VM's lyrics for a TV serial and credited himself.  The first version sounds more likely to me because VM said something like this about ARR too.  But ARR called him his big brother and all and made peace with him.  

I have a cable problem and have not been able to watch these episodes (except the first and second, i.e. Kannadasan).  I am curious what all did diamond say.  I love the argument that VM fanatics make to accuse IR of ego - that he fell out with them because he was too big to get along with him and thereafter his music suffered.  Love it because it is totally not based in facts.  Some of the songs Vaali wrote after IR fell out with VM are among my favourite lyrics of his - Mandram Vandha, Unnai Ninachen, Nalam Vaazha.  The landmark films of the other supposed IR-enhancer MR were made after the split.  Unnal Mudiyum Thambi was after the split.  Yes, the fact that by the early 90s, IR did not work with MR, BR, KB, Rajini (after Veera) did not help him get the big projects he needed to stay on top commercially.  But it's not necessary that this was all his doing. News flash, Rafi fell out with Lata, Kalyanji Anandji, Khaiyyam and some other folks too and there are few people in the industry as modest and gentle as Rafi, going by various accounts (ironically he was friends with Kishore, the man the media took to be his bete noir).  People may fight, nothing to see there, move on.
Here goes:
http://www.tamiltwist.com/2013/11/super-singer-4-21-11-2013-vijay-tv-show.html

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Post  sagi on Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:51 am

V_S wrote:And you are giving a standing ovation just for some breath-control (just because you recorded that song)
That was really hilarious. So when he aint 'recording' songs is he cleaning Rahman's room? rotfl4 

And that wicked laugh today when VM made some comments on his split with Raaja. Guy is supremely annoying.

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Post  V_S on Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:02 am

Yeah true, he was laughing and clapping like never before with a sense of relief that he will not go back to IR again. enna oru trupthi, enna oru santhOsham Laughing

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Post  fring151 on Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:19 am

V_S wrote:Yeah true, he was laughing and clapping like never before with a sense of relief that he will not go back to IR again. enna oru trupthi, enna oru santhOsham Laughing
Srini's USPs in the show are obviously his awkward chuckles, theatrical expressions and inappropriate reactions. He was merely staying true to form and doing his job.

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Post  app_engine on Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:57 pm

fring151 wrote:
Edit: App saar, what about IR's side of the story? Has he or anybody else given any hints anywhere?
I have not heard / read ANY Embarassed

Facts that we know are:

1. IR is too tough in his stance of never working again with VM!
(To the extent that he even stopped composing for youthhood friend BR!)

2. IR is so upset that he won't attend functions that had VM too on stage
(BR could not have VM on invitation / stage, to ensure IR coming for annakkodi audio release)

3. IR is upset to such an extent that he won't go to places owned by VM even
(To the extent that IR won't attend his favourite friend / writer Jayakanthan's family function because it was held in VM's kalyANa maNdapam! VM himself wrote this and claimed Jayakanthan's snatching back the invitation from IR as "aRachcheetRam"...another poisonous remark by VM...it is worth recalling that IR funded a docu film on JK, did music for it , often honored him on stages and has a strong track record of friendship with JK but VM tried siNdu-mudidhal between them using that mag's Q&A. Proof that VM had been doing such siNdu mudidhal with BR / KB and many others for years)

4. IR hadn't talked in public about what saNdai.
(Possibly it could be defaming to himself, that is why I wonder if that was caste remarks or other ugly kuzhAyadi saNdai kind of obscene stuff that people are capable of in shouting in private - though such people are so polished in public - VM may be following his favourite mukA in this aspect)

A fellow had made a condescending remark in twitter on people who dislike VM because he had saNdai with rAsA.

He doesn't know (or ignores) the fact that such people started liking VM in the first place BECAUSE OF his association with rAsA Smile

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Post  app_engine on Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:06 pm

BTW, a couple of errors in that program:

gObi oLaRified that VM didn't attend TV program for 7 years. I'm not a regular TV watcher but EVEN I had seen VM's Sun TV blA-blA on enthiran. (Remember clearly because my daugher asked me what language he speaks Laughing)

VM telling ARR was not born in 60's / 70's but still could compose competently for MGR (iruvar) lol!
(Somebody pointed out in twitter that ARR's YoB was 1966; Also ARR's father died in 1976: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._K._Shekhar )

poyyilE piRandhu poyyilE vaLarndha (ThamizhAl pizhaikkum) perumakkaL!

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Post  app_engine on Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:21 pm

One thing good about that iruvar song on SS4 - that somebody as big as VM who was associated with that project openly talked that the movie was about MGR & another political personality (obviously mukA; and by extension, heroini was depicting JJ).

No longer can people shield MR that "it was simply about political game, with no specific personality in mind" etc Laughing

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Post  crimson king on Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:39 pm

Catching up with the week gone by (except today's episode), I am disappointed with Krishnan's rendering of Enna Sartham.  He has a nice voice but somewhere he is getting it wrong, he doesn't sound 'bright' enough for these songs and ends up sounding melancholic even when he ought to be romantic.  Sonia's performance of Naadham was really good. I feel she may end up winning the show and if she doesn't, it may be because she seems to embrace IR's work more than new MDs!

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Post  app_engine on Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:44 pm

crimson king wrote: ends up sounding melancholic
Exactly!

It was pretty obvious to us but none of the judges seemed to notice it / comment about it.

VM possibly caught it but he had a different agenda ("ragasiyam") and continued to dwell on his KB-SPB relationship stuff, carefully avoiding IR's name for that number Laughing
(He did mention "isai-iLayarAjA" for tik-tik-tik, however).

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Post  app_engine on Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:51 pm



VM on SPB:
"ஒரு சிங்கருடைய அதிகப்பட்சமான பங்களிப்பு இந்தப்பாட்டில்"
(என்ன சத்தம் இந்த நேரம்)


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Post  V_S on Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:24 pm

crimson king wrote:I am curious too.  I have heard a variety of versions.  One, that VM blamed IR for bringing computer music into Tamil culture (er, Punnagai Mannan) and that was it.  Another, that IR used VM's lyrics for a TV serial and credited himself.
It is not that simple a issue. Something very serious issue, related to caste, as I heard. If a person is sending a vakkil notice, imagine the amount of hurt he received.

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Post  crimson king on Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:38 am

So Sound got eliminated.  Wow, judges must have had a very tough task deciding who to eliminate with such abysmal standards.  Sound could barely get her voice out on Unnai Kaanamal while Parvathy badly messed up a high sangidhi on Unnai Ondru.  It's not that I want the contestants to mechanically hit all notes correctly, I understand that singing live and under pressure is tough. But some of these mistakes are frankly amateurish.  It reflects not only technical limitations but a poor appreciation of Tamil film music over the years.  Again, Sujatha told Sound she had sung quite well on Unnai Kaanamal.  Now she's eliminated.  Why this dishonest false pep talk...just say you didn't like it.  Mano observed so correctly that they need to get deeper into these songs.

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Post  crimson king on Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:58 am

For all the training imparted to them by Ananth (and I don't mean to doubt HIS capability), none of the girls are really comfortable singing in head voice.  Not to the extent they ought to be anyway.  I see lot of new singers coming through in the West having this same problem. I don't understand where things are going wrong because especially for a female singer, not developing head voice can be seriously limiting and potentially injurious to the voice (if you try to strain to hit the high notes).

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Post  fring151 on Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:31 am

CK,
Does Head voice refer to high pitch singing? I couldn't gather this from the wiki entry. Examples would help Smile 

Also, from the comments, it looks like many of these contestants have actually won competitions in Kerala etc. Wow, in that case it is really quite disingenuous and misleading on the part of Vijay TV to promote this show as any sort of kuralukkAna thedal, let alone thamizhagathin...

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Post  crimson king on Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:12 am

Yes, high pitch singing. But more pertinently, hitting the high notes lightly and easily, in order to do which you have to 'transition' your register.  What beginners do is to try to get louder as they go higher (and find the going tougher), which is exactly what you shouldn't do if you care about your voice.  Just relax and push the source of resonance higher (rather than bending down and exerting immense pressure on the diaphragm to sing at the top of your voice, which I have seen some people do) and you get into head voice.  I don't know if any of that made sense; it is unfortunately extremely tough to articulate details about something as intuitive as singing!

Examples:  I am not sure of where Indian playback singers do and don't use head voice (I suspect they tend to hold onto chest resonance). So I will use an example from Western, one of the best exponents of head voice I know of. Around 3:08 and then one more time about 10 seconds later:



As you can see, it is actually easier for female singers, esp with soprano voice type, to get into head voice because they already have light, high pitched voices.  Males on the other hand have to learn how to make the transition without a 'break' in the voice, it's not intuitive for us.

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Post  fring151 on Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:09 am

Thanks! I think I have an idea what you are talking about. Would you also consider Adele as an exponent of head voice?

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Post  crimson king on Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:20 am

From what I few songs I have heard, no. In fact I have also heard that part of the reason she had problems recently with her voice was she was straining too much.  Any specific songs you have in mind, though?  

Ever since Whitney Houston popularised high larynx singing in the 80s (and, ironically, harmed her voice in the process), women have abandoned their natural strengths in singing effortlessly in high pitch and resorted to belting like males. Maybe folk singers still use head voice because they don't have to sing in that 'power' style. 

Another example I just remembered: if you watched S P Shailaja demonstrate Germaniyin for Scene Ganesh, where she goes "Sugam Nooraga Vendum Pa pa pa pa PaSSSS", that last sustained Pa is head voice.  She sang it quite beautifully! But of course she is a great singer.

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Post  fring151 on Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:48 am

I was thinking of parts of 'Someone like you'. Set fire to the rain and Rolling sound very strained though, not natural at all.

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Post  Drunkenmunk on Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:00 pm

Can't believe Madhumitha was chosen over Soundarya. Soundarya isn't the greatest singer of the 10 and would have to go someday but Madhumitha's rendition on the day couldn't have been worse. Soundarya's was better than Madhumitha's. Sujatha said she liked Soundarya's rendition. Why this dishonesty? pidikkalennA pidikkalEnnu sollu, yEn pidikkalEnnu sollEn. Pch.
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Post  app_engine on Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:07 pm

VM's first love

Though Vijay TV would like to make us believe that the dialog between VM & gObi was extempore / impromptu, only the most naive would take it that way.

IMO, there must be strong reasons for VM to accept to the 7-years-ongoing-demand of Vijay TV and it's possible VM & gObi had detailed discussion as to what to include in their conversation. (Such as Sun-TV in trouble, Jaya-TV may not like VM etc)

In all their preparations, they've lost sight of (or deliberately ignored) the "tfmpage" fellows who kept picking on Vairam for vErvai & dhAgam. (Of these two, during recent days, I've removed dhAgam from VM's possessions as the same had been copyrighted by Bharathiar)

Based on the above link, I've tweeted  my experience:

gObi : Your first love?
VM : Birds, because they have no vErvai
:ROTFL:
vErvai is VM's OCD :-)
 #LoveAndSweatRelativesPerVM
Smile

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Post  fring151 on Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:53 am

Drunkenmunk wrote:Can't believe Madhumitha was chosen over Soundarya. Soundarya isn't the greatest singer of the 10 and would have to go someday but Madhumitha's rendition on the day couldn't have been worse. Soundarya's was better than Madhumitha's. Sujatha said she liked Soundarya's rendition. Why this dishonesty? pidikkalennA pidikkalEnnu sollu, yEn pidikkalEnnu sollEn. Pch.
Madhumita should have been eliminated the week she sang 'Indha minminikku'

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