Super Singer - Singers of the future

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Post  app_engine on Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:19 pm

dig

Another "instrument player" of rAsA who is well-known today: Vidyasagar

Vidyasagar wrote:
'16 வயதினிலே' படத்தில் இருந்து அவரது இசைக்குழுவில் பணியாற்றினேன். ... இப்போதும் அவர் அமைத்த பின்னணி இசைக் கோவைகளில் நான் இசைத்த பகுதிகள் வரும்போது, பழைய நினைவுகள் மனசுக்குள் ஓடும். அதை நினைத்து சிலிர்த்துப் போவேன்.
 

end-dig

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Post  app_engine on Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:43 pm

Visit of salangai oli madam is one of the best things happened to SS4!

vAzhga SPS!

Smile

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Post  V_S on Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:31 pm

The bad thing about Vijay TV is they want SPS for initial auditions where she had to listen to all those abaswarams from singers to filter out the top 300, 200, top 100, 50 etc. But once they come to top 30 they leave her out and welcome these three judges with red carpet as if they are superior (I know they have been there for long time since season 1, so?). I don't like that attitude. They should change the judges every season. SPS, Chitra all are way too ahead in judging and also in giving numerous tips to singers, most of all unbiased, compared to these three judges (and Mano).

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Post  app_engine on Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:11 pm

V_S wrote:The bad thing about Vijay TV is they want SPS for initial auditions where she had to listen to all those abaswarams from singers to filter out the top 300, 200, top 100, 50 etc.
அட, அப்படியா?

இந்த அநியாயமெல்லாம் எனக்குத்தெரியாதே Embarassed

In any case, SPS is a far better playback singer than all those three IMSO!
(I don't know about her "judging capabilities" though)

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Post  V_S on Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:26 am

Yes, you can see in the first few pages of this thread where she was present in top 50 auditions.

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Post  fring151 on Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:09 am

It would have been nice if they had called another musician for the last episode - say Napoleon or someone, but that wasn't the case. As expected, for the entire round, most of the songs picked were from THAT 80-83 period with a few late 70s and couple of mid-late 80s thrown in. My only problem with this is that it reinforces the perception of the 'golden period' and 'decline' in people's minds. The guest today (some RJ, self-proclaimed Raja-Bhaktan) is of the opinion that people will appreciate his contemporary works 30 years hence just the way they are enjoying his earlier classics now. He has apparently interacted with Raja one-on-one and seems to be of the opinion that IR is a futuristic person - hmmm. Well, I am confident that the songs from NEPV will be remembered because of the attention the audio release and the collaboration got from the media, but I am hoping that Kalvane, mugilo etc aren't forgotten because they happen to composed for a dabba movie (pretty sure Megha will mega-dabba).

One of my favourites was performed - Poo malarnthida, but I didn't find anything special about the singing or the orchestra for this song. V_Sji is right. Their violins have a different tone compared to what we hear from IR's orchestra. IMO Rojavai thAlattum is one of those songs where there is zero scope for improvisation. The charanam is musical perfection and even one wrong note can completely change the feel of the song. It is a real tightrope walk for the singer to get it right and though she did slip up here and there, it was an admirable effort on the whole.

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Post  crimson king on Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:55 am

I have heard that Rojavai is a pure banthuvarali.  That being the case, not only you have to be very careful in improvising, you must not change the notes either.  If you change the notes, you have changed the composition in this case.  IMHO Parvathy changed a lot of notes to avoid the dissonance which is precisely what makes this song tricky.  A commendable effort....disappointed (but not surprised) that none of the judges pointed this out.  Good to see Scene Ganesh knocked out.  As Srinivas observed, he has not shown much growth in the competition.  And for the fact that he actually had not heard Germaniyin or Oru Jeevan before this episode, he deserves even more to be kicked out. Razz  Why so much non chalant disdain for TFM heritage?

As far as IR, we all know Rakamma is from 90s.  I don't mind it, in a way, if they highlight the early 80s period because IR is not just Mouna Raagam, Nayakan or Agni Natchatiram.  He's also done Ninaivellam Nithya, Tic Tic Tic, Alaigal Oyvathile, Manvasanai etc.  After all, these are the films for which he didn't lean on the 'brilliance' of MR Wink and show that he can create great music practically out a vacuum.  When I was growing up, a song like I Love You would get played a lot on TV, ditto Ilamayenum Poongatru but not anymore.  They don't even play Ilamayenum in live shows as much as they used to and it is one of the classics of the IR/SPB combo.


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Post  crimson king on Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:57 am

NEPV songs might have recall value because of the Filmfare nominations (and award for Ramya).  Hope Haricharan might get a nomination/award likewise (if they are really keen not to give awards to IR at this stage).  Would be a shame to see Kalvane get forgotten.  But I don't see why it should take 30 years to understand that song. thinking

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Post  fring151 on Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:13 am

crimson king wrote:I have heard that Rojavai is a pure banthuvarali.  That being the case, not only you have to be very careful in improvising, you must not change the notes either.  If you change the notes, you have changed the composition in this case.  IMHO Parvathy changed a lot of notes to avoid the dissonance which is precisely what makes this song tricky.  
That's very interesting to know! I always felt that there was something very tricky about the charanam - a sort of controlled dissonance - a simmering tension and I could not put my finger on what caused this - so this is it! I am no singer myself, but I fancy myself to get the notes right, just not the microtones, and whenever I sing along to this song, I find myself struggling to even hit the right notes! Quite disconcerting.

Re: early 80s, I think there are 'enough', i.e easily more than 50 songs from that period which are well known to even the youth. So they have an idea of what he was doing then. Mid 90s and later, I am not sure how many songs are famous among non HCIRFs, which is why it would help if they songs are covered in SS4 type shows.

I hadn't bothered to see the results. Saw Ganesh's overacting now. Hadn't heard Germaniyin before. No wonder he sodappified it so much.

P.S: Though the orchestra - particularly the solo violin left a lot to be desired today and the guitarist was not up to the mark, both flautists were outstanding and the rhythm section was fabulous in Poo malarnthida the clap

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Post  crimson king on Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:31 am

fring151 wrote:
crimson king wrote:I have heard that Rojavai is a pure banthuvarali.  That being the case, not only you have to be very careful in improvising, you must not change the notes either.  If you change the notes, you have changed the composition in this case.  IMHO Parvathy changed a lot of notes to avoid the dissonance which is precisely what makes this song tricky.  
That's very interesting to know! I always felt that there was something very tricky about the charanam - a sort of controlled dissonance - a simmering tension and I could not put my finger on what caused this - so this is it! I am no singer myself, but I fancy myself to get the notes right, just not the microtones, and whenever I sing along to this song, I find myself struggling to even hit the right notes! Quite disconcerting.

Re: early 80s, I think there are 'enough', i.e easily more than 50 songs from that period which are well known to even the youth. So they have an idea of what he was doing then. Mid 90s and later, I am not sure how many songs are famous among non HCIRFs, which is why it would help if they songs are covered in SS4 type shows.

I hadn't bothered to see the results. Saw Ganesh's overacting now. Hadn't heard Germaniyin before. No wonder he sodappified it so much.

P.S: Though the orchestra - particularly the solo violin left a lot to be desired today and the guitarist was not up to the mark, both flautists were outstanding and the rhythm section was fabulous in Poo malarnthida the clap
Yes, this song is a beast to render.  It's very tricky.  Hats off to SPB and SJ (though...who am I to say that to THEM?) for not only rendering it immaculately, technically speaking, but also conveying a sensual flavour at the same time.  You need sharp ears just to observe the melody correctly, otherwise you could end up rendering a simplified version of it (which is what Parvathy seems to have done).  I am not much of a singer either but if I was ever offered the chance to sing an IR song on stage with a troupe, I wouldn't dare attempt this song.  

As for 90s, remember...it's not a tribute to the music of Ilayaraja but to the HITS of Ilayaraja.  Razz That is why I said it is better they sing these songs rather than the same old Rakkamma, Thenpandi, Ninu Korri.  IR is not the music director who collaborated with the 'great' MR and other directors.  His music transcends the context of these films and that is better highlighting by considering Ilamayenum or Yaar Vittu Roja.  But they are not going to take up Punnai Vanathu, Nil Nil or even Niram Pirithu, forget it.  

Ganesh was terrible on Germanyin.  Oru Jeevan - he was going along ok until he stumbled in the charanam but even otherwise he couldn't capture the raw emotions of the original.  He didn't have to say it, it was obvious that he hadn't internalised these songs at all.   Sonia was quite deservedly voted the best and if they had given it to Parvathy instead also it would have been a good decision.  They seem to enjoy singing Ilayaraja songs per se, not just for the sake of the competition round.  Divakar did a decent job but he doesn't have the kind of voice that fills a room which SPB has and it is difficult not to compare his performances with that.   
Orchestra did a good job overall but they changed a lot of notes.  I mean, not by way of improvising, but seemingly to avoid difficulties.  Still, good to hear the sound of live instruments instead of keyboard rendering of the string sections etc.

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Post  Drunkenmunk on Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:11 am

Saw the episodes. Quite enjoyed them, i.e. reliving the songs. Just another pointer from yesterday's episode. Was watching Nadhiyil Aadum Poovanam being sung. The boys got the shloka wrongly pronounced. Inspite of singing them as they read it. Unpardonable IMO and has been needling me to the point of saying it here. The singers, especially Diwakar, Soniya and Krishnan seem to genuinely enjoy singing Raaja's songs and I'm glad they kicked Ganesh out.
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Post  app_engine on Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:57 am

James Vasanthan attempting a benefit match for Viji Manuel

Hopefully, people won't start a "malign-rAsA" campaign with this kind of initiative Embarassed

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Post  app_engine on Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:09 am

BTW, while I enjoyed the rAsA week (tablA guy was awesome, terrific!), there are some observations that were soththakkadalais...

1. What happened to "Anand Sir"? Is he sick or irritated because they made Myskin sit next to him? Or not too enthusiastic about rAsA songs? Or some pressure from opposite gumbal? He was sitting with zero or negative emotions. Even said " singers should try non-cinema stuff" Laughing

2. Now it is pretty clear that singers DO NOT CHOOSE songs, even though it is claimed so on show! (That fellow who got kicked out openly said he hadn't heard germaniyin & oru jeevan before. Then for what fun he "chose" to sing those and did a kuppai job of it?)

3. What is this nonsense of making these people murder duets? There are enough solo's by rAsA - you name any year I can give them a hit-list that can run for weeks and not just days! ennavO vERa pAttE illAdha mAdhiri every one is picking duet and making a mess of it Sad

4. While it is impossible for these fellows to get rAsA himself or Yuvan to the program, did they try KR at all? If not, Bhavadharini?  While Viji, Prabhakar & Myskin were great choices, the other slots could have been either for the children (or nephews like Premji / Venkat Prabhu kinds). ennavO udhaikkudhu.

5. While they had 76-85 for the first set of songs, why didn't they switch to latest for the second set? Once again ennavO udhaikkudhu. Fortunately, there was NSK Ramya (who did a terrific job of 'satRu munbu' pallavi) ! Otherwise, the naive public would have believed that rAsA is no longer in the industry Embarassed

In any case, the best parts for me this week were tablA guy & SPS!

Great!!

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Post  fring151 on Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:21 am

app_engine wrote: James Vasanthan attempting a benefit match for Viji Manuel

Hopefully, people won't start a "malign-rAsA" campaign with this kind of initiative Embarassed
If what Eddie says is true, I really feel very very sad for Viji. I think this initiative by James Vasanth is great. Something needs to be done. If the great man is struggling to even pay his medical bills and is living by himself without any help except Eddie, it is quite pitiful Sad 

Eddie Dinesh wrote:Where did I say that there were no financial problems for him?...If you are referring to the discussion thread on Yahoo Group...I said that everyone's prayers are needed. I didn't like the way some ppl portrayed Viji Sir. 

Where were you f
olks all these years? Did anyone bother to call and check with him how he was doing? or did anyone find out his address and go and meet him & offer help. I know the souls who help him now & then. In fact all his medicine supplies are being taken care of for the past one year by my good friend & Cardiologist Dr. Bommannan Raghunadan from Mettur. Theres is another good friend who is a professional singer who takes care of his monthly provisions supplies, and there are a few other good souls from the industry and some of my own friends from FB who helped him when I placed an open request on FB. 

Let there be no sympathy wave & dramatisation please. If you want to genuinely help him pls reach him directly and offer your help.. Benefit concert is a good idea mooted by James now. Some members from the Cine musicians association told me abt their intention to organize a fund raiser for him, but it remained an intention best forgotten now. Now that all saw him on TV passions rose. I wish this sustains. Am in regular daily touch with him and have been taking care of him since Dec 2010, and what he has gone through over the years is pathetic. He is making a strong comeback now with intense physiotherapy sessions. Pls dont call for public donations etc. He lived like a king, and kings are not to be treated that way..Help him directly if you can.
Eddie Dinesh wrote:btw am not related to Viji Sir. Am his great fan, and when I saw that he was alone, and everyone had deserted him, I just decided am not going to let him suffer anymore.

and to top it all, the Cine Musicians union did not even send him an invitation for the centenary celebrations and also for an earlier event a cpl of years ago. Such is the gratitude the industry has to him. Shameful.

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Post  fring151 on Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:24 am

Now I recollect Eddie's face. He was there on the SS4 show supporting Viji...

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Post  Wizzy on Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:46 am

app_engine wrote: James Vasanthan attempting a benefit match for Viji Manuel

Hopefully, people won't start a "malign-rAsA" campaign with this kind of initiative Embarassed
wait till AV spins a yarn around this and top it with interview of Rev. James Vasanthan, so much for Raaja week Neutral
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Post  app_engine on Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:11 pm

fring151 wrote:If what Eddie says is true, I really feel very very sad for Viji. I think this initiative by James Vasanth is great. Something needs to be done. If the great man is struggling to even pay his medical bills and is living by himself without any help except Eddie, it is quite pitiful Sad 
From my limited observation on various platforms (youtube / FB / TV / blog comments), this Eddie guy seems to be a SINCERE person. He is a musician and naturally loves and feels for Viji.

Also, he loves rAsA music & rAsA and showcases his love for Maestro frequently (though on an occasion misunderstood by Ilayathalam and some HCIRFs IMO).

If they can achieve a benefit concert - without giving place for useless elements to cash on that simply to malign rAsA - it would be wonderful!

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Post  app_engine on Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:17 pm

I've read somewhere that some of the shows that IR himself is now signing up are with an intention to help his musicians (who are not that busy nowadays because of technological changes & market changes etc).

If that is the case, it may be possible for some enterprising group (say, Jaya TV or Vijay TV) to organize a concert for the benefit of Viji Manuel and similar ailing old-timers, with either IR himself participating or at least his team (aka Prabhakar & co) performing. The key is to get a strong management group take the inititative (and not some James Vasanthan who himself is struggling).

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Post  app_engine on Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:27 pm

Reg. uchchi vagundheduththu pichchippoo vachcha kiLi...

It was nice to see SPS recalling her humming in the interlude and singing it Smile

That boy (Krishnan) has an enjoyable voice and had chosen a terrific song in the rAsA week. An iconic SPB song I would say.

However, what did he do with it? Also, how did his trainer & the judge gumbal view that song?

I was totally irritated with the way the terrific song got portrayed in the program - almost as a "simple azhuva moonji pathos" number Sad

First of all, nobody praised the "udukkai" fellow Embarassed

The presence of that instrument itself should have given the fellows some idea about the overall feel of the song. It is not a single azhuvai emotion but one of anger and indicator of "bad things to come" as well.

As one can see from the lines too, it wasn't an outright pathos but one of ஆற்றாமை with a strong undercurrent of angst. Not willing to accept what the people are gossipping about -while seriously worried with a realization that the gossip is true afterall. Some amount of விரக்தி / depression etc but nothing of pure sOgam.

On top of it, SPB had perfectly nailed it, with his packaging of a million emotions. Especially the controlled aggression - சீற்றம்  ( 'செங்கரையான் தின்னிருக்க நாயமில்லே') - coupled with that love still remaining for his wife ('அடி சித்தகத்திப் பூவிழியே நம்பவில்லே')...I can keep on talking about SPB but that would be a very unjust comparison to a small boy attempting to begin his singing career.

However, the fact was that the fellow sang (as well as kept his face) as if it were a situation of pure sOgam - as in the case of death of a sick infant. Neither he nor his trainer got the sense of the song IMO, which was bad. At the minimum, they should have attempted it as a song of "angry depression". Even an extra-boosted "kolai veRi" kind of thingy - with that udukkai sound and the anxious humming for the third interlude etc.

Wasted opportunity!

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Post  V_S on Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:57 pm

Excellent observation App ji! the clap Nicely written on the intricacies of the song. That song is a milestone, it is extremely difficult to bring out what SPB had brought out. Appreciate Krishnan for atleast choosing that song. Even when the singers don't know these intricacies (pity the fate of these youngsters), I expected the voice specialist and/or judges would guide them to know what is special in those compositions, but as usual everyone were clueless (except SPS). Especially, last week, I never took the singers too seriously as the emotions are just too big for them to even attempt. We can even hear in the way they choose the scales; pretty low compared to original. Just appreciated them for the attempt and how best they did compared to their limitations. All the singers are capable of singing recent (bland) songs with huge western cries, but they are still struggling to sing those immortal gems. This week too (rock and roll round) we can feel the same. No one has clue (so far) what those songs are. I hope they get as they grow.

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Post  Usha on Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:23 pm

VS and app,
    Last week programme  -  unmaiyil.. singers.. yarum sariyga  padavilali... idharku munn  programme il
ellarumae...  casual aga.. IR songs ai nanraga padinargal.........

example..   Vizhigal meeno, paadu nilavae, etc.....  anal.. IR week il.. yen ipadi endru puriyavilai...

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Post  V_S on Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:48 pm

Yes Usha ji, you are right. There were few songs which they did enough justice; kaattukuyilu, paadu nilaavE, isaiyil thodanguthamma, azhagu malar aada to name a few. Definitely need to appreciate their attempts and the song choices. The main reasons for these kind of ordinary performances are :
1. They are not much exposed to such complex songs in terms of emotions (bhaavam). Some are only exposed to classical songs. Blame their parents taste too.
2. They are so much obsessed with recent mediocre ones (like the ones which Ganesh, Syed etc mostly chooses).
3. There is not enough guidance/expertise to them on how to render such a song. I think Ananth Vaidyanathan is only helping them in terms of their voice.
4. There is not enough time to practice as they are students too.
5. Also most of the singers in this season are too young (I think) compared to last seasons.
6. They need good basic training too.

Having said all this, there is also a gift factor in some kids/youths which may be lacking here. They can grasp the emotions right from their first listen and start humming. Not just picking up the right notes. I know many like this and I was amazed by their gnaanam. Another important factor is they have to listen to many old songs be it thamizh, hindi, malayalam, telugu, kannada etc to know the depth in those compositions. There are many kids I know who only listen to old songs, not even enamored by new songs. There itself we will know who they are. Let's hope for the best Smile

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Post  app_engine on Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:07 pm

nanRi V_Sji!

The Sonia / Parvathy girls seem to generally have a better grasp of emotions.

Like you mentioned 'azhagu malarAda' - that has the whole array of emotions packed by SJ (not just sOgam- iyalAmai, anger, anxiety, cry for justice, fear of the future - what a lot). That girl seemed to have understood some of such emotions when she sang in front of SJ (and earn appreciation from her). It could be because of what the girl went thru in "only-brief-married-life", as narrated on a later episode. 

Likewise, Parvathy did a decent job of 'poongAviyam' for the ammA round.

Like you mentioned, there're any number of people I've personally encountered who can sing with better emotions than the ones on TV. (Especially all those songs that Azhagesan murdered). Well, I'm digressing... Smile

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Post  fring151 on Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:26 am

app_engine wrote:
fring151 wrote:If what Eddie says is true, I really feel very very sad for Viji. I think this initiative by James Vasanth is great. Something needs to be done. If the great man is struggling to even pay his medical bills and is living by himself without any help except Eddie, it is quite pitiful Sad 
From my limited observation on various platforms (youtube / FB / TV / blog comments), this Eddie guy seems to be a SINCERE person. He is a musician and naturally loves and feels for Viji.

Also, he loves rAsA music & rAsA and showcases his love for Maestro frequently (though on an occasion misunderstood by Ilayathalam and some HCIRFs IMO).

If they can achieve a benefit concert - without giving place for useless elements to cash on that simply to malign rAsA - it would be wonderful!
Actually I have seen some of the videos of his band and orchestra covering Raja songs and they do a decent job. I didn't know his name before. He is a bassist and a BIG fan of IR. Makes no sense to me why HCIRFs or Ilayathalam would fight with him.

Check this. He is the bass player and that is his youtube channel.


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Post  vicks on Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:24 am

came across this video today, Viji plays the piano for Thenpaadi and Nee Partha (~ 55.30 mins) and does a fairly good job, as far as I could glean



Sujatha sings pretty well compared to Srini , even later around 1:42 when they sing a few songs, she is way better than the others. so someone who was usually Raja's "average" /not the first choice singer is still better than the good/best singers for ARR & others ! Smile

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