Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  Wizzy on Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:12 am

What I don't get Ruskies love for him and they totally dig his 80s stuff, On an Russian torrent site which I use to frequent for downloads always had a line or two about music, angae naan payindra oray ezuthu Илайяраджа Smile

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  app_engine on Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:03 pm

plum wrote:app, cool davun, cool davun. avLovellAm  brangan doesnt have sAdhuryam. He just has got his ego too big now
Me too thought so when I saw his blog (only) Smile

But then, it had appeared on mount road mahA, with big IR pic of OA Shocked

I'm not sure if such a big newspaper simply cares about the "hurt feelings of a cine reviewer by some blog commenters"...It makes me wonder if there's a bigger design and BRangan (in his moment of anger against irritating commenters) played a pawn in their hands...

I saw some glowing praises by the Thamizh version of The Hindu for OA / IR with a pic. May be they are forced to do a "Vijay TV styled balancing act" to get hits / circulation / rating (i.e. if you praise IR this minute, you got to praise or somehow satisfy the opposite camp immediately after)...


Last edited by app_engine on Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  crimson king on Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:06 pm

Good point.  There is actually no particular reason for Hindu to carry what is essentially a rambling rant by a blogger about his hatemail.  That is what it is if you cut to the chase.  But maybe those are the terms of arrangement with BR, whereby he has full creative licence and whatever he writes will be published in the newspaper.  And of course he could have lobbied for it as an article to educate readers about the reviewing process and the reviewer's difficulties.  That is still what he wants people to believe it is but the grumbling undertone (and a similar piece that he wrote after Ka-dull) makes me less willing to buy that.

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  app_engine on Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:10 pm

One can understand milliblog kind of TRP-seeking people clapping for the BRangan article.

However, it's confusing why ARRFs should join such people and be happy for this article? loosu payalugaLA, per this article, unga ALu BGM also not primary to a movie-nnu dhAnE arththam?

Well, I should not be so confused because if some aspect is kuththagai to IR, ARRF's automatically disown it (not even thinking that all MDs belong to the same family). Laughing

BTW, much like me watching any movie with music as primary focus, P_R watching movie with script focus is OK. (There could be others who might watch with camera as their main focus, being camera fans and so on).

However, a professional reviewer should be conscious of ALL important elements that make a movie and should not discount the role of ANY of them, IMSO!

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  crimson king on Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:12 pm

app_engine wrote:

However, a professional reviewer should be conscious of ALL important elements that make a movie and should not discount the role of ANY of them, IMSO!
That is exactly my point and I put it forth to him politely.   His response was that it would take watching the movie several times to write pointed analysis.  *Ahem*

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  crimson king on Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:32 pm

BTW, while BR might well be an MRF (sounds nice, innit? Very Happy ), I don't think he is that much of an ARF, as in blind and deaf in love with da man!   He actually said HJ's collaborations with GVM are more apt (from the point of view of a film's requirements) than ARR or IR.  So if he liked Kadal's music, it would again seem to be from the point of view of a film music buff who finds it interesting to hear something cerebral but isn't actively searching for it and can more than live with pleasant but boring typical film music.  He said that even if HJ might be repetitive and simplistic, many film situations may not require anything more.  Right, but if IR had reasoned likewise, there wouldn't be a tiffan, let alone a virundhu, for us to feast on.  It's surprising that he attaches such a low premium on risk taking by a music director.  Risk per se is exciting in art, whether or not it works.

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  irfan123 on Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:09 pm

"BTW, much like me watching any movie with music as primary focus, P_R watching movie with script focus is OK. (There could be others who might watch with camera as their main focus, being camera fans and so on)." point made by app_engine yes. Had listened to tracks prior to watching OA so my first watch was "conciously" i ignored the bgm and concenrated on screenplay, camera angle etc. to not miss things of things happening fast in the movie when i was stumbled upon wolf calling and cops tracking his voice in station and suddenly wolf says wants to meet. before i could think why story moves fast i was bit confused why. and then in kovil he asks to put money to the beggar. then i had the question why. and as it progressed got the hint why wolf is doing it. Now...me not being a PR and also big fan of IR (1) typical to myshkin film i was so keen on camera angles frames etc . by doing that i got confused and had lots of "why" this is despite i "conciously" ignored bgm (2) still when HOD walked to backyard, when wolf cuts the foot of bad guys, when sree scrambles to run on railway station steps, when wolf pumps the bed in train, whenever blood is shown in closeup, when there is stop and stop motion in parking lot climax, when wolf dies and instrument stops abruptly...the bgm pulled me "subconciously" or enhanced the experience of what is shown in screen and when wolf narrates in graveyard and when high pitch violin joins i was simply moved..all because of bgm.

the problem with BR big article  as "redemption"Mad to what he stayed away for not even pointing bgm (when whole kollywood was wowed) is what caught attention and irked people how silly it is. agree the point you have to watch 2nd time to decode the cues (i did watch second time) but not even noticing anything is most absurd and writing a big article defending it . lol Rolling Eyes

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  app_engine on Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:49 pm

rozavasanth hits out at OA

படம் எப்போதாவது பார்க்க வேண்டும் என்று நினைத்திருப்பதால் கதை / சம்பவங்கள் பற்றிய பாகங்கள் படிக்கவில்லை.

மற்றபடி, ராசாவை (வழக்கம்போலவே) புகழ்ந்திருக்கிறார், நமக்கு அது போதும் Smile


இளையராஜா மற்றும்  மிஷ்கினை பற்றி  எதிர்மறையான முன்முடிவுகள் எனக்கு இல்லை என்று  டிஸ்கி போட்டு இந்த பதிவை  தொடங்க வேண்டிய அவசியமே இல்லை. ஆனால் ஏன் இந்த படத்தை மிகுந்த எதிர்பார்புடன் முக்கியமானதாக கருதி (பல மாதங்களுக்கு பிறகு தியேட்டருக்கு சென்று) பார்த்தேன் என்பதை மட்டும் சொல்கிறேன். நான் இளையராஜாவிற்கு  ரசிகன் பக்தன் என்று சொல்வதை விட எல்லாம் மேலான ஒரு இடத்தில் அவரை வைத்திருக்கிறேன். ரசிகன் என்று சொன்னால் தவறான அர்த்தம் வருகிறது. ராமானுஜனுக்கும் ஐன்ஸ்டினுக்கும் யாராவது  ரசிகனாக இருக்க முடியுமா?  பாதி வாழ்விற்கு மேல் கடந்தவிட்ட இந்த வாழ்வனுபவத்தில்,  இளையராஜாவை ஏதோ ஒரு அளவில் புரிந்து, புரியாத அளவில் வியந்துகொண்டு, அவரது இசையை அணுகுவதை வாழ்வின் ஒரு பயணமாக கொண்டு, அந்த பயணத்தில் கிட்டும்  இன்பம், பரவசம், அகவாழ்க்கை பெறும் அர்த்தத்திற்கு அவருக்காக எதையும் செய்யலாம் என்ற நன்றியுடன் இருக்கிறேன்.  ஆகையால் இளையராஜா இசையமைத்து, மாபெரும் பாராட்டை பெறும் படம் வெற்றி பெறுவதை போல, பலர் அந்த படத்தை போற்றுவதை போல உவகைக்கான விஷயம் எனக்கு வேறு இல்லை.   இன்னொரு பக்கம் இளையராஜாவிற்கு பின், ரஹ்மானால் பற்றவைக்கப்பட்டு, முக்கியமாக தேவா போன்றவர்களால் சமாளிக்கப்பாட்டு, வித்யாசாகர், யுவன் சங்கர் ராஜா போன்றவர்களால் தொடரப்பட்ட  தமிழ் திரை இசை பாரம்பரிய தொடர்ச்சி  இன்று  தீவிர நெருக்கடியில் இருப்பதாக நினைக்கிறேன். இந்த நெருக்கடித் தருணத்தில் இளையராஜா மீது கவனம் குவிவதை முக்கிய நிகழ்வாக கருதுகிறேன். மேலும் மிஷ்கினை தமிழ் சினிமாவின் முக்கிய கலைஞனாக, திறமையாளனாக  கருதுகிறேன். படம் பார்க்காமலேயே (இசை மட்டும் கேட்டு), இளையராஜாவை கௌரவப்படுத்திய ஒரே காரணத்திற்காகவே மிஷ்கினை பாராட்டி ட்விட்டரில் எழுதி வந்தேன். 


இந்த பின்னணியில், படத்தை போற்றி சிறு ட்விட்லாங்கர் எழுத உள்மனதில் தயாராகவே படத்திற்கு சென்றேன். இடைவேளை வரையான படத்திலேயே ட்விட்லாங்கரை மனதளவில் தயாரித்து விட்டேன் என்றுதான் சொல்லவேண்டும்.  நம் 'பாமர மக்கள்' படத்தை எப்படி ரசிக்கிறார்கள் என்று அறிய இடைவேளையில் நாலு பேரிடம் பேசி கருத்து கேட்கவும் செய்தேன். (எல்லாம் பாசிடிவ்தான்).


இடைவேளைக்கு பிறகான படம் எனது இத்தனை நேர்மறையான முன்முடிவுகளையும்  தகர்த்து, பின்னான படத்தை மட்டுமின்றி, இடைவேளைக்கு முன்னான படத்தையும் குப்பைக்கூடைக்குள் தள்ளியது. படம் குப்பை என்று சொல்லமாட்டேன்; குப்பை என்று சொன்னால் அதில் ஏதோ இருக்கிறது, நம் மதிப்பீடு அதை குப்பை என்று குறிப்பதாக பொருளாகிறது. இந்த படமோ காற்று மட்டும் அடைக்கப்பட்ட ராட்சத பலூன் போன்று, உள்ளே வெற்றாக, வெளியே பிரமாண்டமாக காட்சி அளிக்கிறது; காற்று இறங்கிய பிறகு வெறும் பளாஸ்டிக்கை மட்டுமே நாம் குப்பை தொட்டியில் போடவேண்டியுள்ளது. படத்தில் என்ன பிரச்சனை என்பதை விட, படத்தில் என்னதான் இருக்கிறது என்பதுதான் என் கேள்வி. சிறந்த காட்சியமைப்பு, உள்ளத்தை உலுக்கும் உன்னதமான இசை இவை மட்டும் ஒரு திரைப்படத்தை உருவாக்கிவிடாது. 

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  Raaga_Suresh on Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:00 pm

Here is my take on the music of 'Onayum Aattukuttiyum': (If you want to listen to the pieces as you read you must head to my blog. I am unable to embed Soundcloud links here. My blog: http://onlyraja.wordpress.com/2013/10/14/the-music-of-onayum-aatukuttiyum-a-discourse/ )


The music of ‘Onayum Aatukuttiyum’ : A discourse

There is more blood seen on the web with respect to ‘Onayum Aatukuttiyum’ than seen in the movie itself. First, there was positive review of the movie by Sudhish Kamat, which many Raja rasikas question because it did not mention the background score. Another positive review by Baradwaj Rangan prompted the same queries and Baradwaj had to write a separate hand wringing post about BGM and need of music in films in general. Later Roza Vasanth tore apart the movie for its logical inadequacies. Then there was some Facebook Chakravarthi who said that worst part of the movie was Raja’s music and gratuitously advised Raja to take a course in sound design. (If you guys are interested, you need to check for the links yourself. Don’t ask me.) It is in this rather passionate atmosphere that I write this post on the music of ‘Onayum Aatukuttiyum’.


*Spoiler alert: I am going to reveal a lot of the plot below. So if you have not seen the movie and want to see it, come back here later.


In order to understand the score we need to first agree on what this movie is about. Is it a plain thriller, it is about crime and redemption or is it about God, absence of God and faith or is it a combination of all three. I am sure there will be multiple readings here. My personal reading of the movie is that Myskin wanted to talk about redemption and faith using the thriller as his vehicle. I personally don’t think that Myskin wanted to make a straightforward thriller and I believe Raja thought the same.


First, let me talk about faith in God and absence of God subtext that Myskin provides in the film. This subtext is not fully realized but he gives clues as to what his own vision is with respect to this subject. Baradwaj Rangan in his review touched briefly on the religious symbolism. Deepauk Murugesan (former Indian Express film reviewer) wrote about the same in his blog. My reading of the religious motifs is as follows: Mysking believes that we are living in a God less world and it is much better to believe in another human being saving you than in God coming forward to save you. This is obvious from the way scenes are constructed. A killer has a Bible in his bag but that doesn’t save him for further inspection and his pistol is discovered. He is then saved by his colleague who kills the policemen. One policeman falls down shouting ‘kartare’ (Jesus). Later the bible is still in the killer’s hand when his throat is slit and blood drips on it. Another killer sits in front of a small temple after he has stabbed in the throat and doesn’t have much time left in this world. The blind lady is left in front of the temple by Wolf but God fails to protect her. The villain’s henchmen take her away and torture her. The henchmen meet their end in front of the temple. So throughout the movie, God is a silent spectator, coming to the rescue of neither the good folks nor the bad. Finally it is the lamb which saves another lamb (Chandru taking care of the blind girl) and not the Shepard.  In other words, Myskin in this subtext tells us it is better to believe in humanity than believing in a non existent God.
I would have thought my reading was fairly consistent with happened on screen (I think it is to a large extent) except for one important incident: The blind family forgiving Wolf for killing their child. This comes from the faith they follow and from the preaching of the prophet they follow. It would not have been possible otherwise. Myskin does not bring in a religious angle here but the fact that inspite of the danger surrounding them, the family comes to cemetery to light a candle for their departed son clearly shows that they are a religious family and believe in their Lord. It is this faith which gives them the courage to pardon their son’s killer and take him into their fold. It is this faith they want to uphold irrespective of what fate has in store for them.


Given this background, let me try and deconstruct the music happens during this important juncture. The police is chasing the Wolf and the family. They are in the cemetery and police or villains can appear anytime. The father and mother want to light a candle on the grave of their son. Musically let us see what happens. This piece is called ‘Walking through Life and Death”:

This piece is in multiple parts. The music starts as Wolf leads the family towards the grave. There is still a danger that someone would stop them reaching the grave. Multiple emotions run here: anxiety, impending joy,the danger that lurks around the corner and the sadness of the situation they find themselves in. The music captures all these emotions perfectly. The start is melancholic because they had just lost a good friend and this sadness continues for the first minute. Then the mood changes. Around the one minute mark, the violins lose their melancholic tone and there is an anticipatory tone now that they are nearing the grave. At the same time, the cellos join in providing the restraint to the anticipation reminding them of the dangers from the external world. The family reaches the grave, the mother clears the leaves and other debris from the grave and asks the father to light the candle. The music magnificently changes here. Gone are the dreadful cellos, gone is the melancholic tone. The violins join together in what sounds like a prayer. There is silence and a soft tone initially and when a second set of violins join, it is as if they are joining a prayer. It is the time of peace and the external world no longer matters because they have reached their goal. They no longer care what happens to them. Their hearts are filled with peace. Then at around the 3:50 mark, the final transformation happens. The prayerful tone of the violins give way to the individual piano tune. It is at this point that the father unable to light the candle, hands it over to the Wolf. And to the mellow strains of the piano chords, Wolf lights the candle. From what was earlier a group prayer, the music shifts to the individual. For here, Wolf is performing the most important part of the ritual and he is ensuring that the faith of the blind family is intact. For after all it was this faith which ensured that he was accepted as a changed human being. So the music traverses the territory of the external world, to that of a family and finally to that of an individual. The movie must have ended here naturally.


The second thread which was more obvious is that of Wolf’s need for redemption and Chandru’s transformation into Wolf once in a while. Here is a brief musical piece which happens when Chnadru refuses to alert Wolf about the killer following him and the lady throws herself in front Wolf and takes the bullet. This music happens as the dying lady looks (accusingly?) at Chandru and Chandru is mortified at what he has done. The piece is called ‘I Killed an Angel’

The piece starts with a very sad tone, which reflects Chandru’s state of mind and then slowly shifts to a prayer state reflecting the mind of the lady, who is satisfied that she has done her duty in saving Wolf.


‘Growl’ is another piece which showcases Raja’s genius. First, musically this is a terrific piece as Raja makes the violins and cellos growl. Second, he uses this theme both from the Wolf and the Lamb, when the lamb turns into a wolf.

I will let you do the mapping of the other pieces with the scenes from the movie and try to state my understanding on Raja’s choices for this movie vis-a-vis the questions that have been raised by different people about the score.


One comment I have heard on twitter and also got via mail is that there is too much music in this movie. Many scenes would have benefited had Raja kept silent and used ambient sounds. This would have enhanced the thrill aspect and would have kept audience in tenterhooks. Instead Raja plays music.


Implicitly it is assumed by people here that Myskin is making a thriller and Raja does not play along. If Myskin was really making only a straightforward thriller this view on music would have been perfectly valid. The truth is Myskin was not making a thriller. He was making a movie on the human condition, the need for redemption and about God. Thriller was only a vehicle to highlight the humanistic aspect and was not a vehicle in itself. This can clearly be seen by what Myskin wanted to be the highlight of the movie: his telling of the fable as the background story. Myskin was aiming at people sympathizing with the Wolf and that was the reason he went for that ‘Look ma, no hands’ approach in that monologue. Unfortunately, the thriller aspect was better realized by some crisp editing, excellent lighting and great photography. (Also aided by some terrific music by Raja). Somehow Myskin was not able to garner sympathy and make the audience feel for either the Wolf or for Chandru. Most sat emotionally detached from those characters but were gripped by the thrills the movie provided. It was only Raja who was constantly pulling people to the emotional side of the story but could not succeed fully. It was the thriller which succeeded and therein lies Myskin’s failure.


Another accusation I heard is the choice of Raja to use the strings and use a baroque score. Was Myskin not a new wave director? Why go back to the 17th century baroque music? Could Raja not have used some new age synth score for this movie? Why make it so heavily classical?
Again, I go back to the same argument. Raja was realizing an emotional movie which spoke about basic humanity, redemption, faith and God. The emotions of the people involved were not straightforward. They were complex emotions. On one hand was the Wolf, who was trying to turn into a lamb and on the other hand was Chandru, a lamb who was once in a while turning into a wolf. There was sadness, happiness, peace, compassion, danger and many more emotions and many happened at the same time. For this reason, Raja chose the baroque music for it the music of countermelodies. Here Raja could express more than one emotion at the same time. In the end piece, ‘Someone Loves Us All’ you can hear some sadness mingled with hope and an undercurrent of peace. Earlier I had highlighted how Raja uses a layer of cellos to project the danger to the family from the external world. Added to the multiple layered score, the emotions had to be intense. Classical music is probably the best way to achieve this without sounding trivial.
(If you wanted to check how Raja would have scored for a standard and straightforward thriller, do watch the Kannada movie, ‘Aa Dinagalu’. This has everything people asked for; synth dominated modern score, minimalist score etc etc. So it is not as if Raja does not know how to do such scores. It is just that he knew Myskin was not aiming for a standard issue thriller. Here is a brief review of ‘Aa Dinagalu’s score:   http://srramakrishna.blogspot.in/2008/02/galipata-vs-aa-dinagalu-background.html )


This brings us to an important question which hasn’t been asked earlier: Which movie should the music director score for? The one which director envisaged or the one which he actually realized? We never had this problem earlier because there are hundreds of movies which Raja has scored where the director is inefficient but there is no doubt about the story director was narrating. It is only in this movie you have the doubt because Myskin tells us a tale in such an attractive voice that we are enamored by the voice and fall in love with it and don’t worry about the tale he was actually telling. As I said earlier, Raja tries to get us back to the story but Myskin’s voice is more seductive.  When there is such a dichotomy between what the director envisages and what he realizes, the music director has to take a stand. You score for one and you are out of sync with the other. Raja always works to realize the director’s vision and he took a stand here which is very much in sync with the story Myskin had in his mind. So there is always the chance that is was not in sync with the realized vision. It make take some more time for people to see beyond the thriller and when they do that they will realize how wonderfully Raja has scored for this movie. Till then these arguments will continue.

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  fring151 on Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:56 am

Fascinating perspective from Raaga_Suresh as usual and an interesting opposite take by Rozavasanth. I haven't given my opinion of the film here so far because I got to watch it in a ..er...let's just say I couldn't catch the movie in the theatre and one of the gentlemen on this forum 'helped me out' Wink. So the print not being the best and consequently my attention wavering and all that, it is quite likely that I didn't grasp a lot of the finer details and nuances in the screenplay. In fact reading Sureshji's post it is quite clear that I did miss many things. 

The weakest link in the movie IMO is the acting and I am surprised not too many reviews talk about that. This is in fact THE biggest problem in Tamil when it comes to making serious cinema. In a thriller drama like this, you need good actors, both main and side. Sree is at best a mediocre actor and is hardly convincing in his part and Myskin didn't really impress me either (wrt his acting). Shaji was the only character who did a decent job. Consequently, what Raaga_Suresh says about not being able to empathize with any character absolutely resonates with me. I just felt totally indifferent watching the whole affair unfold. Better actors would have made the movie that much more engrossing.

Sure, the story and concepts were quite novel and innovative - a welcome break from mainstream Tamil cinema. The biggest strength of the movie is the understatement and imagery. The whole religion-angst is quite apparent throughout, but in a more subtle way than what we generally get to see in movies, especially Tamil.

Coming to the BGM, as already discussed earlier, I absolutely loved the tracks as stand-alone pieces even before watching the movie and for the most part, the score blends into the narrative quite well. However I can understand why some people found that the music was too pervasive, and yes, perhaps in certain scenes silence or ambient sounds would have served better to heighten the tension. On the whole, though, I have no complaints about the BGM. 

I found that facebook post by the Chakravarthi dude who asks Raja to take a course in sound design (and who also avers that Raja doesn't know how to do BGM and hasn't done a single good score ever). You know what I have realized about these folks? The funniest thing about them is that by not even making an attempt to come across as balanced or unbiased, they defeat their own agenda and lose all credibility.  Yaaru saar seriousA eduthupAnga ivanunga solradha? They make no attempt to hide their hatred - ditto for Kaarigan, Amudhavan and all the others. They have such blind hatred that they are incapable of giving a balanced view of anything Raja related, though I have to admit Kaarigan tries sometimes, but then the hatred is so vicious that it manifests itself eventually.

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  kiru on Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:02 am

Well, I dont mind people not liking the BGM.. even my 12 yr old and 8 yr old were arguing which one is better - Lamborghini vs Ferrari !!! :-) But atleast they know these cars are worth many times the current car I drive :-( .. while I am not sure whether these critics know what they are "disliking" :-)
I did not see the move, but Raaga_Suresh's was writeup was neat and he and V_S et al have established here that IR does do some story telling with his music. I am completely bought into this aspect. Maybe we even should call - IR's score - "Alternate Dialogues" or "Musical Captioning" or what ever (so that we can annoy some IR haters more :-) ) . I also might not like IR's certain songs or BGM at times but this is serious stuff .. Better know what you are talking about.
As they say, we can only take a horse to a pond but ...

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  kiru on Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:13 am

BTW, I dont know who this rozavasanth guy is.. he says .. he is not a fan of IR .. how can one be fan of ramanjum or Einstein ? Man .. I thought he is stealing my lines. what a kindred soul.. These days the music of IR has transcended the emotional aspects and is making my mind churn .. just like how some technical stuff fascinates me at work ..I mean fascinating.. really fascinating.. not making me happy, sad or angry or whatever. Very weird .. Like wondering how was this done. I am sure I do wonder how did they create this tune or write such lyrics.. but this time around .. it does not seem to sound like music.. more like a system .. system engineering.. I dont know.. I am probably blabbering by now.. that rozavasanth guy .. I will buy a drink or more for you .. buddy.

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  app_engine on Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:37 pm

kiru wrote:that rozavasanth guy .. I will buy a drink or more for you .. buddy.
kiru sir,
Informed rozavasanth on twitter about your post Smile

His reply:
rozavasanth wrote:
(இப்போதுதான்) பார்த்தேன்; நன்றி! அவருடனான drinkஇல் ஆர்வமாக இருக்கிறேன் என்று சொல்லுங்கள்.
BTW, he is an old timer from tfmpage and a much followed blogger / twitter:
http://rozavasanth.blogspot.com/

Smile

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  app_engine on Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:05 pm

Sureshji's OA article has generated a lot of traffic on twitter Smile

One sample (ellAm namma ALunga dhAn):
https://twitter.com/Raaga_Suresh/status/389935214450851840

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  kiru on Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:48 pm

@app- neenga thaan ennOda kannuum , kaadhum maathiri.. :-) I will try to post a comment on rozavasanth's blog site.

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  crimson king on Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:13 pm

Watched the film today.  The film was great. I can understand why it may not have clicked in the box office because it has very limited dialogues and none of the typical filmi routines like song-and-dance or comedy.  But it's one of the most focused Tamil films I have watched.  I also loved how definitions of good and evil get blurred as the film develops; the confusion is mirrored in the mind of the aatukutti.  As for BGM, I don't really know why Mysskin badly wanted IR to score music for this film (may be down to his fandom?) because this is not the kind of film that really needs BGM imo.  The treatment was very much like some European films I have watched and they usually have minimal or no BGM.  I understand he wanted to showcase IR as the John Williams of India but this is a very low key, minimalist kind of film without a grand sweep that could give the composer more scope.  The BGM sounds better in the standalone portions released rather than with the film. The film demands too much attention to allow the audience to focus on the score.

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  plum on Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:32 pm

Tweeted this but nobody responded:
 https://twitter.com/nom_d_plum/status/396563150444560384


OAK : pArthasarathy kOvil sakkarai pongalai nei, mundhiri illAmalum paNNalAm, sApdalAm. adhukkAga?

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  Drunkenmunk on Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:47 pm

nallA irukkundreengaLA? illandreengaLA? Smile innikki dhAn pArthEn. Liked it a lot. First impressions were it it is a deeply religious film. However, most of the take aways are either man denouncing God or God denouncing man. When the blind mother is on the streets, she is outside a Temple who's doors are closed to a seeker. As the plot moves, man denounces man too with the hit men not giving two thoughts before shooting Pichai, the police officer and accomplice, and moving on. One of the hit men dies with the Holy Bible on his hands on a tree that resembles a cross as though he's been crucified for his sins. Yuva goes outside a temple and calls Thamba before dying in a grave. As Chandru sees the blind father killed by the police, he slaps hard at the cross in disgust. He wants to denounce a God that denounces men. At the end of it all, he is in front of Wolf asking for forgiveness in a பாவமன்னிப்பு stance that is evident from a medium shot with the police and wolf. The cross he apparently gets to bear is taking care of the child.


That tale that Wolf tells the kid. Kind of Ramayana-esque with Dasaratha killing the son of blind parents and getting cursed that he'd be separated from his son in the end of his life. Just that, Wolf bears the family as a means of getting away from his older life.

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  crimson king on Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:55 pm

Yes, a very religious/philosophical film disguised as a thriller.   Dad said it reminded him of Crime and Punishment and while it didn't evoke that reaction from me, it does confront moral dilemmas...a situation where neither the protagonist (nor the audience) can decide which side they are on.   Last year's film Kahaani also had similar themes though it was overall a different film (and OAK explores those dilemmas in more depth).

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  Drunkenmunk on Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:00 pm

crimson king wrote:Yes, a very religious/philosophical film disguised as a thriller.   Dad said it reminded him of Crime and Punishment and while it didn't evoke that reaction from me, it does confront moral dilemmas...a situation where neither the protagonist (nor the audience) can decide which side they are on.   Last year's film Kahaani also had similar themes though it was overall a different film (and OAK explores those dilemmas in more depth).
Exactly. Loved that the seemingly holy Chandru who saves Wolf presides over Bharathi's murder. That character inversion as Chandru looks horrified over Bharathi's body was superbly realized.

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  crimson king on Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:09 pm

Yes...come to think of it, that's probably the scene that dad must have felt was reminiscent of C&P.   Mysskin's acting in the scene where he narrates the story of the wolf and the lamb was brilliant...very natural and moving.  There are plenty of logical holes in the film but Mysskin's narration was so powerful I got engrossed in finding out what IS the crux of the film and began to ignore the little details.

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  plum on Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:49 am

Ok, having thoughtfully made that tweet on parthasarathy kovil pongal analogy, want to explain it - deal wiht it, folks - since our Nerd pointed that people might then claim that nei and mundhiri are accessories just like BGM.

Before making the analogy, I thought of this, too but the reason I got the analogy in the first place was precisely this.

I'll explain.

My mom makes sakkarai pongal WITHOUT nei and mundhiri often. And it is "divaymA irukkum". Awesome taste.
However, not in an exotic manner like the Parthasarrathy kovil sakkara pongal. It is tasty in a different, simple manner.

So, when a Parthasarathy kovil cook offers his precisely calibrated EXOTIC sakkarai pongal, does my mother say "hey I can make a tasty pongal without the ingredients you use so it is EQUIVALENT to your sakkarai pongal therefore there is no need for Parthasaratyh kovil sakkarai pongal"

Fact No 1: My mom's sakkarapongal without the ingredients is tasty but is not EXOTICly tasty as the perumal kovil pongal
Fact no 2: Parthasarathy Kovil pongal is a valid, special, exotic pongal and a genre by itself. And it is the uchcam of its genre.

When Myshkin said he is cooking an EXOTIC pongal, and the BGM is part of the narrative, our intellects are arguing that since home pongal can be cooked in an un exotic manner with decent results, what Myshkin cooked with the ingredients would have been as tasty without the ingredients.

This is stupid: without the BGM ingredients, it wouldn't have been the EXOTIC pongal that Myshkin desired to cook. And Myshkin gave a clear hint with that "I learnt through IR that CInema can be an exotic language". In other words, yes, a functionally good movie can be made without BGM, but then what is the point  of CInema being an exotic language then? At any rate, when Myshkin wants to make that exotic dish, who are you to say that he could have made a less exotic dish with the same effect? 

To appropriate Myshkin's vision, and reduce it according to your vision of good cinema is what these people are doing. Hence, the analogy.

In other words, to see OAK without noticing the BGM is missing the point of Myshkin's vision. Which only an arrogant, self indulgent, narrow minded Baradwaj Rangan can justify.

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  plum on Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:53 am

Coming to brangan's defence itself, his pathetic "It is pointless to talk about BGM in one sentence" defence I took apart in twitter yesterday.

https://twitter.com/nom_d_plum/status/396616732665585664
https://twitter.com/nom_d_plum/status/396616896415399936
https://twitter.com/nom_d_plum/status/396617076636270592


Plum Niyappa ‏[ltr]@nom_d_plum[/ltr]18h
" There’s really no point saying something as generic as “... and so-and-so did an effective job with the score” "
idhu vERa vAi /1


Plum Niyappa ‏[ltr]@nom_d_plum[/ltr]18h
"The score by Philip Glass is equally extraordinary" /2
idhu nARa vAi


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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  plum on Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:57 am

I knew he'd do this since he has done this sort of "pointlesS" one line appraisals of BGM etc many times before.

I knew he was faking it with the "pointless" defence.

However, I have a theory how that defence involved.

From his original article itself, it is clear that BRangan didnt dig the score much: he just placed it along with K and Sundar Babu previous scores for Myshkin. In other words, nothing special or unusual in a Myshkin movie.

Firstly, notice that the first person to ask him about OAK BGM was our own Shankar, who is his close friend and always talks to him from the Raja perspective.

I guess it was to not offend his friend that Brangan loftily took the "it is pointless to talk about BGM" defence instead of directly hurting Shankar by saying BGM wasnt that special.


But, in doing so, he patehtically exposed himself as many times before itself - sic - he has made this sort of one line appraisals.

I knew he'd slip again sooner or later and he did last week.

What a bunch of pathetic fellows

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Re: Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum (The wolf and the lamb) - Mysskin

Post  crimson king on Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:11 am

Simple question, plum-saar.  Is any of the above directed at my comment yesterday on why Mysskin used IR?  I would like to get that clarified before I write a response.

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