India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  Michael AF on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:37 am

Adadaa cha became 359/3.

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  Wizzy on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:00 am

Manipayal to ease into a 50, benefit match bowling/fielding lol! Cook was all sea against Pak/Proteas @ home,
our buffet bowling unit made him a beast Neutral shudder to think of Clarke/Mussey could do against us, Pwnting missed out on a great opportunity to make amendments to his avg. in India.

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  Michael AF on Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:39 am

India v England, 3rd Test, Kolkata, 3rd day

India's year of denial
India have spent 2012 making excuses for their poor Test performances. It is about time they told themselves some home truths
Sidharth Monga
December 7, 2012

Pragyan Ojha was the latest member of the India team to try and put a positive spin on their position © BCCI
"We have seen in the last three Tests matches and even in England, there was a lot of grass and that helped their seamers. Once these people come to India we should not be hesitant in making turners, and that's where we would get to know whether they are mentally strong, and [what happens to] the kind of chit chat do they do when we go overseas and they talk about our techniques."
- Gautam Gambhir, January 22, 2012, Perth

Two days after India had lost by an innings inside three days at the WACA ground.

"We also won 2-0 in India."
- Virender Sehwag, January 28, 2012, Adelaide

Third day of the Adelaide Test, when a second whitewash in two away series was imminent.

"Why not [turning pitches]? We were given flattest of tracks during practice matches in England and Australia, and then suddenly presented with a green-top during the Tests. During practice matches, we would face those 120kmph bowlers …If they wanted to be fair to us, they could have provided us with same kind of tracks for practice matches, like what were used in Tests. Especially, when they knew that visiting teams get very less time to practice. Now they would be playing on turning tracks and definitely would know where they stand."
- Virat Kohli, October 27, 2012

Justifying the tactic of not letting England face any spin in the tour games before the start of the Test series, in the process imagining "green tops" in Australia and England

"We also need to consider that immediately after that series when England came to India, we beat them 5-0, which cannot be forgotten."
- Sachin Tendulkar, November 8, 2012

Before the start of this Test series, drawing comfort from an ODI series win last year

"One has to recognise the advantage of home conditions, and this applies across the board. So I don't think we should run down our players by saying we did not do well abroad. Other teams don't do well when they come to India. In England, except Rahul, the batting did not click. But in both England and Australia, we had super-fast pitches."
- N Srinivasan, December 4, 2012

Asking people to not say "we did not do well abroad"

"So what if we have lost a home Test? Not as if we have never won at home… It's not that we have lost the series."
- Gautam Gambhir, November 29, 2012

After the defeat in Mumbai when everything - pitch, toss, first-innings runs - was in their favour

"If you look at the records at this ground, India have played really well. The way the wicket is playing, I am confident our guys will do really well."
- Pragyan Ojha, today, Eden Gardens

After India have conceded a 193-run lead by end of day three with four wickets still in England's hand

Also today, Joe Dawes, India's bowling coach, told - well, who else - the BCCI in an interview that Zaheer Khan is one of the best six bowlers in the world, that Indian bowling is headed in the right direction, that he has begun the process of achieving the aim of developing a group of seven to eight fast bowlers who can be called upon any time. You can accuse the BCCI of many things, but it doesn't lack humour, as is evident through the timing of this piece.

One of these days, India will admit they have become an ordinary side. That currently they are arguably the worst bowling unit in the world, bar Bangladesh. That they are the worst fielding side in the world without any argument, which they kept on proving on the third day as Ishant Sharma dropped his third simple return catch in the fourth match he is playing this year. That the whitewashes in England and Australia didn't happen on doctored green tops. That a proud home record alone doesn't ensure future Test wins. That the ideal response to overseas batting failures is to work on techniques, and not to seek comfort in statistics at home. That no side won an away series with that kind of attitude.

When India admit that, they will start improving as a Test side. Until then, they can hope for a miracle to the tune of Kolkata 2000-01.

Sidharth Monga is an assistant editor at ESPNcricinfo

Feeds: Sidharth Monga
© ESPN EMEA Ltd.

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  Michael AF on Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:41 am

Good seruppadi from Siddharth Monga. :clap: : cheers bom

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  Kaaling on Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:37 am

Good intent and much better start this time. meesai-la mannu ottalai (Draw) possible.

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  Michael AF on Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:55 am

#@$#@%$^&%^*(*$%#$ Galath gambir!!!!

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  Wizzy on Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:55 am

ATG gtfo, tap and run in tests, is he on a dope or what Evil or Very Mad..cost us 2 two top order wickets due to his clumsiness Mad

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  Michael AF on Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:02 am

Time to call it quits. What a way to spoil saturday weekend.

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  Wizzy on Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:30 am

looks like this farce can end before tea,,Yuwecan't and Captain Fool lol!

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  plum on Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:33 pm

Couple of comments I made in Guardian:




Here's also a thing to ponder for chest-thumping English supporters - admittedly, only a few here but they are here, arent they? - this is our system. This is our Cricketing culture, Indifference, lack of passion, system heavily loaded against individual cricketers, and random decison making at the top.

Yet, for about 10 years or so, a bunch of committed, ferociously committed, cricketers in Kumble, Sachin, Laxman, Ganguly, Dravid and to a lesser extent, Zaheer, Harbhajan and Srinath, these people made us a competitive unit, and bucked the 75 y ear old trend of India buckling under the mildest stress. With their individual efforts, collective motivation and spirit. They only had a disruptive system for their support(or non-support)

That's a phenomenal achievement - think about it - without the kind of support (talent spotting, talent grooming, non-political) system that the Pontings, Waughs, Cooks, Strausses and Flowers enjoyed.

Those are some special Cricketers - and what is happening now was needed to make this clear so I am glad whats happening now is happening.

What Ganguly achieved was enormous - and a WC win and being there when India got to #1 made Dhoni look like the best ever Indian captain. I am glad that things are now being placed in the right perspective. Perhaps, it is not a coincidence that thesee enormous home losses are happening just when Dhoni is one short of Ganguly's captaincy win record for India. Perhaps, that's fate's way of saying Dhoni "You are good dude but Dada was better, and fat chance I am going to give you the numeric superiority which your marketing men will use to hype you as the greatest captain ever for India".


Also, let's ponder the attitudes of the two captains on display here

Alistair Cook inherited a fragmented dressing room, his best batsman was ousted from the team by jealous elements in his team, and his best batsmen himself had a foot-in-the-mouth disease, and was prone to making himself a sitting duck for the said jealous team mates.

Cook went about restoring that batsman to the team, and played a visible initiative in integrating him back into the team.

On the other hand, Dhoni's best batsmen in turning wickets, VVS Laxman, retired under a cloud, and when questioend about his relationshipw ith the captain, was frosty. He said Dhoni was never available on calls - even for Laxman to share his retirement plan with him. And he snubbed his captain by inviting everyone else but him for his retirement party.
Not very hard to piece together the background to this - perhaps, Dhoni didnt make Laxman believe that he valued him. This is speculation of course but Dhoni clearly failed to motivate Laxman and seems to have pissed him off somehow.
I have been on record pooh-poohing Karma on these boards. But.. does seem like:
Karma rewarded Cook with a miraculous India series win and punished Dhoni with an unexpected thrashing in a home series

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  Wizzy on Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:46 pm

Sehwag today

Sehwag took a dig at the media too. “Is the team missing Rahul Dravid
and VVS Laxman?” he was asked, and responded with: “Well, it is you guys
who said that Cheteshwar Pujara is Dravid’s replacement and all that.
Now you are asking me this question.”

http://www.wisdenindia.com/cricket-news/sehwag-banking-divine-intervention/39246

reminds me of discussion I had with 19thmay over there on how VVS being made the fall guy.

just heard VVS been hired by ESS for OZ series, hope he pours his heart out Smile Dravid is too goody/gentle to say things against the grain.


Dhoni just doesn't care about tests nor has he given any indication to make amendments to improve the test team.
until now his only triumph over VVS ouster has been to use that position to accommodate his buddies in Yuvi/Raina and they have repaid his faith with
interest Very Happy

believe all his talk about turning pitches are a calculated media smokescreen to paper over his cracks, even Monga's highly acclaimed article on 'denial' doesn't even mention Dhoni Rolling Eyes last time India lost 0-2 on the bounce @ home to Saffers Sach had to forgo his captaincy. But with Seenu uncle quick to cover Dhoni's back by blaming the pitch and stirring wrath of the curator to give it a new spin yam least bit hopeful of a change.

http://sports.ndtv.com/india-vs-england-2012/news/item/200399-bcci-chief-n-srinivasan-expresses-unhappiness-over-eden-gardens-track

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  plum on Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:46 pm

Depressing Wizzy.
Dhoni will never give up. He'll somehow manage a century or half century and Sachin will be sacrificed now - especially since the sponsors have stopped airing his ads even.
Dhoni's sponsors would have already budgeted until 2015 for him so it is extremely unlikely that he gets dropped for anything

Dhoni did realise that he has to give up one format last year - thing is he should have realised that tests arent cut out for him and done the decent thing but ODI-T20s only stars fade fast - so his sponsors must have strangled him into staying.

Yuvi, Dhoni, Raina - until these people are kept away from Tests, India deserve this

And the northie media is already after Ashwin - keeping quite on Zaheer and Ishant etc.
I wouldnt be surprised if Harby plays his 100th tests in Nagpur or in the Aussie series.

Even God is by the side of Northie players. He somehow gives them a lifeline just when they are about to be dropped - but then what will He do? Northie players are given million chances to fail while ppl like Ashwin have only 4-5 failure chances.

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  plum on Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:47 pm

Meanwhile in Australia

Ricky, the Ponting to Inverirarity, John wrote:

Sir, please Sir, what is the procedure to revoke a retirement

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  Wizzy on Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:17 pm

Plum, I wonder why can't he see the writing on the wall and quit the format isn't good at.
after a while even the sponsors won't be too keen to be tied up/seen with a loser(read tests) and might need a new face to sell.

though had to said even in this adversity Dhoni's lady luck hasn't deserted him, each of his competitors from past(Sehwag,ATG) to present(Kohls,Ashwin) are fighting their own battle, after yet another loss when the selection committee meets up it will be again down to TINA and Dhoni will scrap through again. also Pak's tour of India could be a redemption of sorts for Dhoni/his odi brigade in which he can employ those helicopter shots and architect those close chases with Yuvi/Raina/Kohls/Indian public having gotten the revenge for this loss against Eng and everything will be rosy until the OZ visit us next year Laughing

Hence Sach quitting doesn't make any sense if the odi hacks are continued to be given free rein and the Kaptaan fool never gets the chop. if anything his retirement will open yet another slot which after long deliberation will be filled up by Raina.

Mr.Date/Cktview is having a gala time with Ashwin's non-show, this knock couldn't have at a better time. Ashwin is slowly and surely learning the ropes to coexist in a system where you do just about enough to safeguard your place. Thought Shastrival was tad forthcoming with his praise on Ash/his batting, little did I know that this was yet another backhand to push Ashwin up the order so India could play 3 spinners or in other words to play Weed pirat

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  Michael AF on Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:55 am

Plum pr having a field day out there.

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  raajarasigan on Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:02 am

adapaavi Sidharth monga .. irukkura avamaanam patthathunnu nee ivan vera ipdi naaradikkiraane...

England, Australia whitewash'e thevalam polirukku..pale

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  plum on Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:48 pm

Ashwin to Compton, 3 runs, lap shot first ball from Compton, Tendulkar is quick at fine leg to keep the ball in the play. Wonder how many others in the Indian team would have got to the ball

We are allowed to swear here - so the fucking bastards calling for Sachin's head - mostly North Zone folks with an antipathy to Mumbai historically - go fuck yourself. If Sachin retires now, none of you will die a peaceful death Evil or Very Mad

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  Michael AF on Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:28 pm

I hope he plays a good hand in the next test and helps em to draw the series. Basically I don't see a point in playing anymore. Embarassed

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  Michael AF on Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:17 pm

Reading some old pages in hub. Arumaiyana feeling punnukku marundhu potta madhiri Smile

http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?7799-Sachin-Tendulkar-The-Living-Legend-(Part-III)/page33

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  Wizzy on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:48 am

WV :clap: :clap:

http://www.wisdenindia.com/cricket-article/tendulkar-replace-dhoni-captain/39436


was hoping VVS would be given the ruins and be asked to see it through the rebuilding phase/till one of the young hopefuls stake their claim unfortunately Dhoni killed the very idea by forcing him to quit. The idea of Sach captaining may sound outrageous but at this low point we need him to get the team back on track/for dilli bellies to fall in line.

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  2040 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:50 pm

what the...

cannot read the link from office...

idhenna prediction site'a?? vilakkavum...

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  Bala (Karthik) on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:54 pm

Michael AF wrote:Reading some old pages in hub. Arumaiyana feeling punnukku marundhu potta madhiri Smile

http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?7799-Sachin-Tendulkar-The-Living-Legend-(Part-III)/page33
I'm already in old grandpa watching old tapes/DVD and reliving the good times mode. Nigazh kaala kodoorangala thaangum manothidam enakku poiruchu

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  Wizzy on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:52 pm

2040 wrote:what the...

cannot read the link from office...

idhenna prediction site'a?? vilakkavum...

nope from Wisden's india kilai


The Englishmen completed the formalities at the Eden Gardens and though it was too early for them to pop the bubbly, they would surely have spoilt the pleasure of lunch for MS Dhoni and the Indian selectors. The temptation to dissect their decisions is irresistible, but given the prevailing circumstances they could not have done any better. They will definitely need to do something in the near future, as they cannot concede the patience that seasoned cricketers are pleading for from them. The first and foremost issue that needs to be addressed is the captaincy – the biggest problems start from here.

They cannot maintain the status quo as Dhoni has been given a long rope by any standards. The time has come for both Dhoni and the selectors to move on, and the lack of suitable options cannot be a reason to retain him in the next Test series. Sandeep Patil and company are handicapped by the fact that the likes of Virender Sehwag and Gautam Gambhir have not been in the best form in recent times, which means that they need to see if they can identify a youngster and hand over the reins.

Had Virat Kohli kept up his form in this series, he would have been a serious contender. Unfortunately that was not to be, and the selectors need to get thinking caps that not only fit well but also work better. The million-dollar question is what is it they can do? They can create a furore and look back, if only to steady the ship temporarily. If they have to go back, what are the choices available to them, and what good will it do to the team and the individual?

The one option available is to give the reins to Sachin Tendulkar once again. Don’t let your jaws drop, folks, before I explain why I suggest this option. I know that most Indian cricket followers are keen to know his future plans, but one can rest assured that the selection committee will not muster the steel to drop him. That being the case, the surest way to stoke the embers in Sachin’s belly is to give him the captaincy for a period of six months to a year and try to resurrect the team.

He has been accused of not stirring the pot enough, and this is the best way to force him to do what is in the best interests of the team. The master’s lack of form will be pointed out, but Dhoni’s form has not been earth shattering either. The aura of Tendulkar will ensure that the entire team goes in the same direction. A different successor to Dhoni may get undermined.

The much-awaited chat between the selectors and Tendulkar is yet to take place, and this possibility is worth a chat. Besides, no better farewell can be accorded to Tendulkar than making him captain for the final chapters of his career. He needs to be given a young deputy to groom, and this is where the selectors need to have the chutzpah to back the right guy, like South Africa did with Graeme Smith or Australia did with Michael Clarke.

The argument will be that an youngster can be given charge straightaway in the next series, but let’s not forget that India have struggled even at home without VVS Laxman and Rahul Dravid. The late Tiger Pataudi was reported to have said in 1974-75 that he was the right man if the team needed a leader and some runs when India were 0-2 down against West Indies. Similarly, at this point in time, India needs Tendulkar to provide direction as a leader, and reinvigorate the dressing room.

If he can do it as he exits the scene, he would have done the greatest service to Indian cricket. Some may deem going back to Tendulkar a retrograde step, but desperate situations call for desperate measures.
WV Raman

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  2040 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:03 pm

thanks for taking pain in sharing wizz...

fingers crossed!

i maybe dreaming... but i am religiously predicting a god-mode activation...

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Re: India - England Test Series @ India, 2012

Post  raajarasigan on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:05 pm

I love this guy Sidharth Monga.. moonjila peechankayya vachi solraanya...

It's hard to believe now, but Gautam Gambhir once batted 643 minutes in an innings. It is the longest any Indian has ever batted in the second innings of a Test, and the sixth-longest overall. Of the 436 balls he faced in that innings, he didn't offer a shot to 108. You can argue it was a pitch as good as the Marine Drive in Napier, but you can't take away from that feat of discipline, concentration and endurance. The only time he grew impatient in that innings was when approaching 50 and 100.

Let's move to Cape Town, January 2011. The ball swung and seamed around corners in the first innings, and a huge crack stared at him on a good length just outside off in the second. In the first innings, he offered no shot to 60 out of 222 balls, and scored 93 of his most challenging runs. In the second, with a hurt elbow he batted for four-and-a-half hours for just 64 runs to help India draw the Test and the series.

Those were easily the best days of Gambhir the Test batsman. The thing about him then was you could see even from outside that he was enjoying leaving balls alone and playing defensive shots. He used, judiciously, the dab to third man, his best friend and his worst enemy. Back then, he was putting together innings of substance in difficult conditions too.

Gambhir was an intense character, a bit like Rahul Dravid. He never had a solid technique, but he worked obsessively towards fine-tuning it to suit Test cricket. He once spent days at an exercise where he batted without a bat in his hand, and moved his foot towards the ball bowled at him from a short distance. He did so to stop falling over, which he did a lot during his early days.

With his effort in Cape Town, Gambhir was now firmly part of one of India's best batting line-up: two set openers and three great middle-order batsmen. It was followed by the World Cup win, and a superb 97 in the final, which actually deserved the Man-of-the-Match award that went to MS Dhoni. Regardless, things were going swimmingly, and people were thinking of Gambhir as the next captain.

Something has gone horribly wrong since then. He has won millions of dollars and an IPL but Gambhir is a changed man. Like Dravid, he is not as naturally gifted as the other Indian batsmen. He would forever need to keep fighting and stay disciplined. That discipline at the wicket disappeared in England, where he sustained two serious injuries too, and in Australia. He was not leaving the ball on length and was following wide deliveries too. He began giving slip-catching practice out in the middle. All the Australian bowlers had to do was turn up, bowl short of a length, outside off, and let the slip fielders fight among themselves to claim yet another catch.



Gambhir was a player who made you root for him. You cared for his struggle and his honesty. But he has now had close to a year of refusing the need for struggle.


Players have had bad patches before Gambhir too, but they work hard to get out of them. Gambhir used to do that before World Cup 2011. Now he stopped even acknowledging it. Every time you asked him about his batting, he would imagine the scenario that people were criticising him for the lack of centuries - which is not that unfair a demand of an opener, by the way - and give a sermon on how cricket was a team game and centuries didn't matter.

This was as far as you can remove a man from what he used to be. Gambhir of old used to get nightmares about not converting starts into big ones, now he has become blasé and defensive about it. You can't waste your good form with just fifties, he used to say. Now he has began to find refuge in averages and statistics. Possibly the conditions in Australia and England were too much for him. Perhaps Cape Town was just a one-off, and he didn't have it in him to fight such conditions consistently. But the refusal to acknowledge a problem was baffling.

When he finished the Australia tour, with 181 runs at 22.62, Gambhir had gone two years without a Test century. It didn't help that the selectors were not asking him questions. Openers have been dropped for much less. Around that time, Gambhir also became the first Indian to start the "we-will-see-you-at-home" campaign. He used to be a much better sport than that.

Duly runs dried up at home too. He was taking Test cricket for granted and Test cricket began to take him for granted. That's true more for a man who plays his best when properly obsessed and hard on himself. The failures against New Zealand at home finally came as a wake-up call. You can see against England, especially after his horrible across-the-line shot in the first over of the Mumbai Test, that he is working hard to stay patient and disciplined.

Gambhir has had three starts in a row now, but has never looked like he is in full control. He is not enjoying it. He is still itching for boundaries. And when he did succeed - in the second-inning in Mumbai, his highest score of the series - he was criticised for his failure to farm the strike or bat aggressively when India were looking for crucial lower-order runs.

And his other two starts have been ended by his lack of patience. The bowlers know it's taking a lot out of him to defend for a while, and he is struggling to keep that up for, say, a session. And this is when the ball is not bouncing towards the chest, which is what it will do in South Africa next year.

If Gambhir doesn't score a century in Nagpur, it will be three years without a Test hundred. It is hard to imagine any other specialist batsman keeping his place in a proper Test side with those numbers. Since that Cape Town Test, Gambhir has played 15 Tests, seven away and eight in India, and has averaged 27.77 with five half-centuries. As a comparison, in the last 15 Tests before he was dropped never to be picked again, Wasim Jaffer averaged 36.81, scored three centuries - one of them in Cape Town, another a double in Kolkata - and had five half-centuries besides. Jaffer was 30 then, a year younger than Gambhir is now.

Gambhir was a player who made you root for him. He would be insecure about his place in the squad, he would bat with hurt elbows and broken hands - the latter in a Ranji Trophy final not many were watching, and he scored an unbeaten century in a tricky chase - and he would make no bones about admitting he gets nervous in the 90s and wants to reach the hundreds as soon as possible. You cared for his struggle and his honesty. After close to a year of refusing the need for struggle, he is now finding all the luck you need at such times has deserted him.

Then again, many feel Gambhir is lucky even to be getting another chance. If there is any truth to the whispers about the sudden shortage of water for a patch of about 66 square yards in the outskirts of Nagpur, this chance is going to come on a difficult pitch.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2012/content/current/story/596707.html

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