Hindi film music - Old is Gold

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  crimson king on Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:11 am

Ha, even I was thinking of Sili Hawa just as I posted Tere Liye Palkon.  Late RD came up with some captivating songs but either his older singers could no longer produce the same energy on record or those new ones he tried (Amit Kumar!!!!!) didn't live up to expectations and overall let down the music.

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  crimson king on Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:48 am

Interesting article on RDB by Subhash K Jha, written in the mid 90s. 

http://www.panchamonline.com/articles/passion.htm

Pleasantly surprised especially by this statement, "If Baharon Ke Sapne had clicked RD would have had the chance to compose more compositions closer to his heart like "Aaja piya tohe pyar doon"; "Kya janoon aajan hoti hai kya" and "zaamane ne maarey jawan kaise kaise"."


The retro-RD crowd is interested more in his 'rock' songs and not the introspective side of RD.  In his early days, he was a very inventive composer but Baharon Ke Sapne or Abhilasha didn't quite wow the crowd while Teezri Manzil, Padosan and HRHK did.  Post that, he was forever typecast as the irreverent king of noise pollution and not always given the elbow room to do what he perhaps really liked.

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  fring151 on Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:53 am

I have never been overly fond of RDB's "rock songs". But don't most people up north hold up "Kati patang", "Amar prem"  etc as RDB's best? I do enjoy those songs immensely.

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  crimson king on Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:00 am

Would say HRHK, Kati Patang, Yaadon Ki Baarat, Mere Jeevan Saathi, Amar Prem, Jawaani Deewani, Aap Ki Kasam, Sholay and, finally, HKKN are his most popular soundtracks.  Of these, I do like Kati Patang and Jawaani Deewani (especially!) a lot.  Only select songs from the rest of the films.  I like Suno Suna Kuch Hua Kya from Aap Ki Kasam but the rest of the album is a big bore, especially the never ending Zindagi ke Safar Mein.

My favourites are Baharon Ke Sapne, Abhilasha, Parichay, Aandhi, Ghar, also Jawaani Deewani which I already mentioned.  Also partial to some of his late soundtracks though the vocals usually left a lot to be desired - Maasoom, Harjaee, Bade Dilwale, etc.

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  fring151 on Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:25 am

Great RDB song with nice flaasafical lyrics  Smile 


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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  fring151 on Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:23 am

Just found on wiki that this is Madan Mohan's. An old favourite!


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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  crimson king on Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:24 am

Of course, one of the earliest movies where he made a mark and earned his name.

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  fring151 on Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:29 am

Never knew that though I am familiar with this song for at least 10 years. Damn north Indians giving scant regard to the composer and disproportionate recognition to singers!

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  crimson king on Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:31 am

In spite of which Lata 'didi' fought with them for royalty, and eventually won.  But then, in the 50s and 60s, composers did used to make lots of money, more so than singers.

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  fring151 on Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:00 am

Still, I am sure what composers made then was peanuts compared to what Ani and Imman make with Kolaveri and fy fy fy.

Btw, quite warming up to MM now actually. Found this lovely jukebox on YT



Also, was searching for more info about him and found this account by his son.

http://www.madanmohan.in/html/the_legend/family/sanjeev_kohli.html

Quite sad that he (was) is not recognized so much. Blame northies, always referring to songs as Lata songs, Rafi songs, Kishore songs, or Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Amitabh songs. Among the many northie friends and acquaintances I have had over the years and who like old HFM, I don't know a single guy who could name the composers of the songs he liked, and worse they don't seem to care care. I don't know what they think? The song just drops from the heavens to Lataji's lap?

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  crimson king on Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:06 am

Decent top 10 but rather biased towards Bawarchi, perhaps.  From Chirag, would have preferred Chirag Dil Ka as a pick.  

Actually I know quite a few Northies who are fond of, specifically, Madan Mohan songs. My only grouse is even they tend to be obsessed with the MM-Lata combination.  No doubt he worked with her more than any other singer but Rafi's reliability is, as usual, taken for granted.  He didn't single out any one composer to give his best to, he gave his best to all, be it MM, Naushad, SJ, SDB, LP, OP Nayyar, Ravi, even Sonik-Omi.

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  crimson king on Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:16 am

Also, his lack of recognition here in the context of the SK article is actually vis a vis the other composers and not vis a vis the singers.  The reason why he did not enjoy the same recognition as say SJ or SDB is he was unable to establish a camp for himself, say the Dev Anand camp (SDB) or Raj Kapoor camp (SJ).  What movies came his way rarely did well in the box office.  He only infrequently delivered Binaca geet mala hits, a pre-condition those days for a composer getting more assignments.  But even when he did, e.g. Naina Barse Rhim Jhim or Jhumka Gira Re, his stock didn't exactly go up dramatically and that made him very bitter and disillusioned.  By late 60s/early 70s, even getting access to Famous Studios where he preferred to work became difficult as younger music directors began to dominate and this to him was like being kicked out of his own home.  He was unable to take the philosophical view that many artists often have in hard times, which is to just enjoy the process and hope in time their work will get its due, rather than fretting about it in the short run.  Perhaps, he was a sensitive and emotional person.  His sensibilities were also a little more elevated and he was fond of a semi classical or ghazal treatment and not so much the fast songs.  That also affected his capacity to deliver hits.  I have said before in another context that in the 90s, IR seemed to get a bit tired of writing more and more fast songs for hits and that probably contributed to his losing out on big star films over a period of time.  But IR recognised it as his personal choice and didn't grudge producers or directors for not working with him.  MM didn't seem to be able to handle it with that equanimity and allowed lack of success to affect him.  Given Khaiyyam's success briefly in the mid 70s to early 80s, had MM lived, more opportunities to showcase great ghazals would have at least trickled his way once in a while.  But just as he got the opportunity to forge a long partnership with Gulzar and good friend Sanjeev Kumar, he died.

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  fring151 on Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:30 am

crimson king wrote:Also, his lack of recognition here in the context of the SK article is actually vis a vis the other composers and not vis a vis the singers.  The reason why he did not enjoy the same recognition as say SJ or SDB is he was unable to establish a camp for himself, say the Dev Anand camp (SDB) or Raj Kapoor camp (SJ). 

I got that part. Mine was a general crib about singers getting way more credit and recognition than singers. A name like Lata is well known to everyone and gets VIP treatment everywhere, whereas only the relatively more hard core fans know the composers and their body of work. RDB might be an exception in this regard. 

For an artist to get disillusioned, bitter and depressed due to perceived neglect or lack of adulation is very natural and perhaps as old as art itself. In IR's case, IMO his very strong spiritual inclination and severe indifference, maybe even mild contempt for mass taste and commercial appeal Razz have stood him in good stead.

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  crimson king on Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:43 am

I think that in general, one has to be more in-your-face and media friendly in the North to get popular.  The audience's first concern is the star on whom the song is picturised and next the name of the singer, if they get that far.  Music director uske baad.  South is certainly very different in that aspect, at least used to be.  I think a hero-culture seems to have taken root in Tamil these days and composers as well as singers are becoming more of a sideshow, which I trust is exactly what the Buddhist peace loving democrat wanted to see.  

Not only IR, Amitabh Bachchan also took a more mature view of his role as a superstar, knowing it would be ephemeral (while Rajesh Khanna got completely swept away and couldn't handle the inevitable decline). Some artists are able to see that their satisfaction comes first and foremost and they shouldn't worry too much about appreciation.  MM was not one of them, in fact Sanjeev Kumar had to persuade him to come with him to Delhi to accept the National Award for Dastak.  Speaking of which, MM was also an alcoholic which might have even played a role in heightening these feelings of disappointment and depression.  As an upper class person, he may have also struggled with a perceived lack of approval for his work while IR had to struggle every inch of the way up.   This is all just speculation, by the way.

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  fring151 on Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:51 am

crimson king wrote:I think that in general, one has to be more in-your-face and media friendly in the North to get popular.  The audience's first concern is the star on whom the song is picturised and next the name of the singer, if they get that far.  Music director uske baad.

That's exactly what frustrates me. Singer also ok, but to remember a song by the star on whom it is picturised drives me mad. I mean, come on, how superficial can one's tastes be?

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  fring151 on Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:57 am

In that "Aap ki nazaron" song on YT, for example, MM's name hardly ever features in the comments.

Also, Tams are no great art connoiseurs either. As was discussed in the IR-MSV-ARR thread, pre-IR composers didn't get much attention down south. Even now, so many MSV era songs are popularly known as MGR songs or Sivaji songs. As great an actor as Sivaji might be, I still don't like this. But what drives me particularly mad to the point of kolaveri is a YT jukebox of so called "Mohan hits".

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  fring151 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:45 am

crimson king wrote: From Chirag, would have preferred Chirag Dil Ka as a pick.

Heard it now. Louly indeed. Rafi is chanceless.

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  counterpoint on Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:41 am

Not sure if this has been mentioned before in this thread. For fans of Madan Mohan, for fans of Old hindi film music or for that matter fans of good music in general, this is  a MUST HEAR.Zara si aahat hoti from Haqueekat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ii-Wh4mBrk&feature=kp

Thanks to internet forums I discovered this more than a  decade back and it instantly made it to my top 10 Madan Mohan/old hindi FM list

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  counterpoint on Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:52 am

The highlight of that song is of course the tune flow itself, especially in the stanzas and the brilliant singing to go along with it. The complete package.
If ever there was a composer who could take a genre like ghazals(which can bore the lay quickly) to the masses convincingly and do it with his own indelible stamp again and again it was Madan.

In my opinion, the closest anyone has come to channelizing Madan Mohan in contemporary times has been Rahman in Tehzeeb. The song is Mujhpe toofan uthaye logon ne. The song gives an idea of how MM would have operated, if he had composed in contemporary times.

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  counterpoint on Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:06 am

Another gold standard for composition and singing, Kuch dil ne kaha from Anupama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69dnqIFfrnE

I cant believe that there are as many as 55 dislikes for this song. Must just be trolls. Or GV Prakash fans.

LataM herself wouldnt have gotten to sing many more songs of this calibre where sublime expression was needed to highlight an already great composition.
which composer of today can  compose something like this? and which singer can sing something like this?

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  counterpoint on Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:09 am

I feel that Old Hindi film music deserves its own section perhaps, rather than existing as just another thread within the "Indian films" section. Lets keep the music separate from movies discussion, Mods.

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  fring151 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:35 pm

counterpoint wrote:Not sure if this has been mentioned before in this thread. For fans of Madan Mohan, for fans of Old hindi film music or for that matter fans of good music in general, this is  a MUST HEAR.Zara si aahat hoti from Haqueekat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ii-Wh4mBrk&feature=kp

Thanks to internet forums I discovered this more than a  decade back and it instantly made it to my top 10 Madan Mohan/old hindi FM list

What a beauty!! This is instant win. Thanks for sharing!

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  Usha on Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:27 pm

counterpoint wrote:Not sure if this has been mentioned before in this thread. For fans of Madan Mohan, for fans of Old hindi film music or for that matter fans of good music in general, this is  a MUST HEAR.Zara si aahat hoti from Haqueekat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ii-Wh4mBrk&feature=kp

Thanks to internet forums I discovered this more than a  decade back and it instantly made it to my top 10 Madan Mohan/old hindi FM list

DM and CK,
idhuvum Kalyaniya........

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Re: Hindi film music - Old is Gold

Post  Drunkenmunk on Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:50 pm

Yes. Yaman based mAdhiri dhAn irukku to my ears. Also, what a lovely song!

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