Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

Post  kamalaakarsh on Thu May 04, 2017 12:15 pm

I agree on this. And those horrid days of Sameer (of 90s & early 2000s) are gone. Amitabh, Irshad Kamil are doing good job. Gulzar still conjures some good lines in some of the songs.
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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

Post  kiru on Fri May 05, 2017 10:10 am

Usha wrote:..

kaviko azhagaga sonnar.. IRai Tamil nadu purindhu kollavillai.. cinemavirku ithanai arivu thevai ilai...........

pasamana oru nigazhchi...........
Agree with your assessment.. I am not sure kavikko himself understood him.. IR tried to elevate film music... the prelude/interludes are mini concertos and symphonies.. Instead of a just a rhythm oriented composition.. he tried to make it a melody based multiple movements. Well.. he lost some audience this way but gained in musical creativity.. (I like his Naushad comment.. only one genius (mEdhai)  can identify another ..)

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

Post  app_engine on Fri May 05, 2017 5:15 pm

Kiru,

IMHO KavikkO understands the intent / achievement of Kannadasan / IR (விண்மீன்கள் விற்கிறவர்கள் is no small praise, coming from a conservative like him).

However, he has got some very strong opinion against cinema in general  - i.e. in comparison to iyal / isai / nAdagam, he has got it wired in his brains that cinema is cheap / fish market etc.

Even if aspects of cinema meet / exceed the specs of contemporary iyal / isai / nAdagam, he won't admit it or accept it.

Absolute bias - possibly based on the general attitude of his gen that cinema is taboo / asingam / to be avoided as a sin etc. This had been very common opinion among prior gen -e.g. peers of my grand parents / parents - which you must be aware of too Smile Such public perception  of those days could explain why there had to be a much bigger % of artists from other states in the TN film industry, compared to any other industry.

Interestingly, things have changed to such an extent that even for Hollywood films, the end credits typically include so many TN names nowadays Smile

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

Post  crimson king on Fri May 05, 2017 7:31 pm

app_engine wrote:Kiru,

IMHO KavikkO understands the intent / achievement of Kannadasan / IR (விண்மீன்கள் விற்கிறவர்கள் is no small praise, coming from a conservative like him).

However, he has got some very strong opinion against cinema in general  - i.e. in comparison to iyal / isai / nAdagam, he has got it wired in his brains that cinema is cheap / fish market etc.

Even if aspects of cinema meet / exceed the specs of contemporary iyal / isai / nAdagam, he won't admit it or accept it.

Absolute bias - possibly based on the general attitude of his gen that cinema is taboo / asingam / to be avoided as a sin etc. This had been very common opinion among prior gen -e.g. peers of my grand parents / parents - which you must be aware of too Smile Such public perception  of those days could explain why there had to be a much bigger % of artists from other states in the TN film industry, compared to any other industry.

Interestingly, things have changed to such an extent that even for Hollywood films, the end credits typically include so many TN names nowadays Smile

That is all the more a tribute to the genius of Kannadasan or IR, that even for a hardcore conservative, it is hard to deny their sheer talent. I don't know what was said about his 'headweight' in TN when IR said Kannadasan wrote lyrics the way he writes music.  But it's true; there is talent and then there is pure genius that seemingly even the creator cannot contain.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

Post  crimson king on Fri May 05, 2017 7:48 pm

kiru wrote:
Usha wrote:..

kaviko azhagaga sonnar.. IRai Tamil nadu purindhu kollavillai.. cinemavirku ithanai arivu thevai ilai...........

pasamana oru nigazhchi...........
Agree with your assessment.. I am not sure kavikko himself understood him.. IR tried to elevate film music... the prelude/interludes are mini concertos and symphonies.. Instead of a just a rhythm oriented composition.. he tried to make it a melody based multiple movements. Well.. he lost some audience this way but gained in musical creativity.. (I like his Naushad comment.. only one genius (mEdhai)  can identify another ..)

Agreed that the import of IR's work is not fully grasped (and possibly may never be because of our tendency to regard film music as plebeian).  But I don't think he lost audience because of his efforts to elevate film music.  When he did lose market, it was just because all good things have to come to an end.  It's pretty much the same as how the golden 60s gave way to the media-hyped RDB era and eventually to the terrible 80s and in the same period (late 70s to early 80s) Khaiyyam and Jaidev still carved out a niche for themselves as IR has in his later years.  When I say the same, I mean the cultural phenomenon, not the music itself which was not of a comparable complexity.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

Post  app_engine on Fri May 05, 2017 8:03 pm

We need to also look at the society in which kavikkO lived, by looking at the way cinema "pAttu pusthagams" were printed and sold in 70's.

Those were obviously not compilations of a particular lyricist or anything like that - but from one single movie. That meant only few sheets, in very cheap paper and even cheaper printing - not considered "literature" (like Bharathi poems).

In addition, those weren't sold in book stalls (not even in all shops that sold kumudam / vikatan kind of tabloids).

They were mostly sold outside of theaters or bus stands or grAmaththu sandhai by STREET / ROADSIDE vendors.

Also, in most middle class (or above) homes, they weren't considered to be appropriate to be purchased / kept etc. (The boys who bought them had to keep them to themselves, may be hidden inside their school text books Laughing )

Such was the pathetic condition of the works of Kannadasan. There's no wonder kavikkO felt that KD was selling stars in such unworthy markets.

Problem of the industry / society, that didn't treat it as "literature" - even though at times they were superior to majority of the "kavidhai books" that came out in the same time period and sold in reputed stores.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

Post  irir123 on Fri May 05, 2017 10:10 pm

where can I find the link for the entire 'be with me maestro' show?

thanx in advance
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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

Post  crimson king on Sun May 07, 2017 2:54 pm

app_engine wrote:We need to also look at the society in which kavikkO lived, by looking at the way cinema "pAttu pusthagams" were printed and sold in 70's.

Those were obviously not compilations of a particular lyricist or anything like that - but from one single movie. That meant only few sheets, in very cheap paper and even cheaper printing - not considered "literature" (like Bharathi poems).

In addition, those weren't sold in book stalls (not even in all shops that sold kumudam / vikatan kind of tabloids).

They were mostly sold outside of theaters or bus stands or grAmaththu sandhai by STREET / ROADSIDE vendors.

Also, in most middle class (or above) homes, they weren't considered to be appropriate to be purchased / kept etc. (The boys who bought them had to keep them to themselves, may be hidden inside their school text books Laughing )

Such was the pathetic condition of the works of Kannadasan. There's no wonder kavikkO felt that KD was selling stars in such unworthy markets.

Problem of the industry / society, that didn't treat it as "literature" - even though at times they were superior to majority of the "kavidhai books" that came out in the same time period and sold in reputed stores.


Isn't it strange that 'intellectuals' would read so much into poor marketing/periphery?  Because I have seen those kind of paatu pusthagams for Hindi songs too and they were made of cheap quality so that anybody would be able to afford them.  I don't remember that this was ever seen as a discredit, as 'thuchcham' to use the apt Tamil expression.  To some extent, this may also have to do with the cultural differences between Chennai and Mumbai.  Mumbai is a relatively new city and was considerably Westernised from way back so has an easier relationship with pop culture.  Whereas parts of Chennai are very old and it has a proud Carnatic tradition too, so maybe they don't easily respect popular music or films.  I have seen some Maharashtrians, esp forward caste, have that attitude but they are a minority in Mumbai and Bollywood is dominated by Punjabis so their opinion does not carry weight.  But they usually insist on listening only to Hindustani music and that too by Marathi artists like Kishori Amonkar (usually not 'em bloody Muslims Wink ).  So it's the same phenomenon but Bollywood being cosmopolitan is insulated from it.  Pandit Jasraj even complimented Jatin Lalit on a TV show saying he cannot create new music unlike them.  It's too generous a compliment because most of JL's creations were copied.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

Post  kiru on Mon May 08, 2017 10:29 am

app_engine wrote:Kiru,

IMHO KavikkO understands the intent / achievement of Kannadasan / IR (விண்மீன்கள் விற்கிறவர்கள் is no small praise, coming from a conservative like him).

However, he has got some very strong opinion against cinema in general  - i.e. in comparison to iyal / isai / nAdagam, he has got it wired in his brains that cinema is cheap / fish market etc.

Even if aspects of cinema meet / exceed the specs of contemporary iyal / isai / nAdagam, he won't admit it or accept it.

Absolute bias - possibly based on the general attitude of his gen that cinema is taboo / asingam / to be avoided as a sin etc. This had been very common opinion among prior gen -e.g. peers of my grand parents / parents - which you must be aware of too Smile Such public perception  of those days could explain why there had to be a much bigger % of artists from other states in the TN film industry, compared to any other industry.

Interestingly, things have changed to such an extent that even for Hollywood films, the end credits typically include so many TN names nowadays Smile
App,
When I said "I am not sure kavikko himself understood him"  I meant "him" to refer to IR. Abdul Rahman asks IR for more symphonies, but he then says for film music you need to do just play "dangu dappa" or some thing like that. So how come some body like IR doing "dangu dappa" can do symphony ? The man is not coherent. The fact is he is a legend is his chosen art/profession and that is why IR himself has to contain his anger/disappointment so much, talk nicely and patiently to convey the point. Abdul Rahman was a craze during our times. Even though I have not read him much, I have an idea. I still have my own opinions about Kannadasan, IR and Sivaji. I think they are the 3 most important geniuses of our times, in the non-scientific world. 
I want to record my opinion here about classical art vs popular art. Classical art was never classic when it started out. It was popular art that stood the test of time (eg. waltz). How can something be art or music if some human beings do not interpret it as music or to have some artistic value. People like IR or Kannadasan try to elevate or provide high standards in their output. This is exactly what one needs to do to create timeless art. Of course, the medium they operate in might enforce some constraints, IR himself has voiced these in private - I have to stick to a rhythm, I have a time to operate in etc. But he knows he needs feedback from people to recognize what he is creating is really music. Even though, he might create music in his own way or whims or fancies, he IS happy when people like it. For eg. he told people in private kochu kochu santhoshangal has come out well. Or if somebody whom he is friendly with mention they like some song, he is apparently honestly thrilled. People like Abdul Rahman, might not like these constraints and might fight or survive the economical odds to practice their art in their own way. Ultimately, I feel this is like the top line and bottom line in business. You need both revenue and profits. We need popular art forms, we need people to continuoulsy push the quality in this popular art form and we also need people to push the classical art form to be more acceptable and enjoyed and popular. Ultimately, our art, whether classical or popular, will be an indicator of the intellectual capabilities of our society. Exactly this is how cultures have survived or been respected (based on the high standards of their art).
I hope I did not go on too much with my blabbering. I love IR, I love kannadasan and I also love kavikko and other classical masters. (More later, if people feel there is any worth in mumblings).

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

Post  kiru on Sun May 14, 2017 12:41 pm

Did I say something wrong ? and put this thread into coma :-)

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

Post  Usha on Mon May 15, 2017 12:10 pm

kiru wrote:Did I say something wrong ? and put this thread into coma :-)
Very Happy

news irundhal post podaradhu dhan......
(malaiyalam songs thread ipadi than coma la iruku ennoda post ku appram.
Rolling Eyes )

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

Post  Usha on Mon May 15, 2017 12:11 pm

Aanthai for Ilaiyaraja. Nice....... inimel ipadiyum sollalam namma IRai.

https://twitter.com/blacktktcompany/with_replies

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 4

Post  Usha on Mon May 15, 2017 12:14 pm

https://twitter.com/emmariyappan/status/863324851842555904

sweet one.......... Nadhaswaram ... andha portion ku violinkararai wait panna solli, rasanaiyudan vasicha azhagu....

https://twitter.com/emmariyappan/status/863324851842555904

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