Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

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Total Votes : 15

Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  Nerd on Thu May 29, 2014 4:22 pm

Second in the series. We had Agni Natchathiram first and it was missing an important Raaja ingredient. SPB. Now this film has 7 songs, all of them have SPB.

Watershed album. Mohan became mic mohan after this film. The film was a blockbuster just for one reason, Ilaiyaraaja. IR-SPB-Mohan combo became iconic after this film. And all the songs are still popular 32 years after the release.

Please vote and also explain your choice.

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  Usha on Thu May 29, 2014 4:33 pm

Nice album...... All the songs are super........

Thogai  ilamayil adi varugudhu...... Carnatic base.. IR songs.. konjam.. adhigamaga pidikum. adhanal indha paatuku vote......

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  app_engine on Thu May 29, 2014 5:08 pm

Another nice thread, nanRi Nerd for picking this movie!

Unlike AN, I have an overwhelming favourite in this album Smile

So, my voting choice is already decided and any analysis will not be "objective" Laughing

I'm going to pretend unbiased and do the analysis anyways, mainly for fun (another opportunity to talk about these songs)...

மார்க்கு என்ன வந்தாலும் முன்னமேயே முடிவு செஞ்ச மாதிரித்தான் ஓட்டுப்போடுவேன் Wink

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  Drunkenmunk on Thu May 29, 2014 5:46 pm

Ilaya Nila hands down for me. One of the iconic songs that had me in awe of the creator even without knowing who he was in my 8-10 yr old age. The guitar, the flute in the first interlude that sounds so Indian but wait, is jazz-blues and the guitar in the second interlude which is again pure blues. I can mouth the whole song from start to finish with the interludes included for a few songs. This is one.

Like SPB says here, you can sing this in New Orleans and it won't sound out of place:


You can play this in India and it won't sound un-Indian either. Kalyanchi-Anandchi remade this in ghindi but like SPB said in the O2 concert at London, they only did the pallavi, they didn't touch the ludes or the charanam because no one can do it like Him. And also, the charanam to pallavi transition is one of the toughest but SPB makes it effortless. Like a backfoot cover drive of Sachin that looks easy on the eyes but isn't Smile

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  crimson king on Thu May 29, 2014 5:53 pm

Kalyanji Anandji's version, with due respect, was as Deewangee is to Primal Fear.  Seriously, Ilaya Nila is just dripping with this total acid jazz vibe years before Jamiroquai became a household name.  And yet, as usual, so much Carnatic flavour in the melody.  One of the foremost achievements of his career.  I love Thogai Ilamayil too, but Ilaya Nila is hands down my favourite.

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  Drunkenmunk on Thu May 29, 2014 6:41 pm

Thogai Ilamayil is a fabulous song too (what with Deva reusing the first few phrases of the charanam in his Vetri Nichayam's charanam as an inspirational song for Superstar that swept the hearts and charts Razz). Lovely melody. And for a melody, what pace! Vintage Raaja.

And Raaga Deepam Etrum Neram Puyal Mazhaiyo. Phew. Pure genius level song construction which even TN Sehsagopalan raved about in Manadhodu Mano (which has now been taken off youtube). The way the song starts in high pitch and unravels the beauty of the Hamsanandhi. Comparable to Thyagaraja Swamigal and Papanasam Sivan's handling of Hamsanandhi. Naan sollala. TNS solrAr Smile And Ilaya Nila trumps everything. Boy what an album!

PS: Honorable mention to Ye Aatha. Was a rage in my listening room for a year after I discovered it in my teens.

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  app_engine on Thu May 29, 2014 7:26 pm

chinna social service...all "HD" youtubes of the PM songs:

இளையநிலா பொழிகிறதே
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsN_9uXAoNE



ராகதீபம் ஏற்றும் நேரம் புயல் மழையோ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ii2ApXiTNw



தோகை இளமயில் ஆடி வருகுது
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pibA6Qgba0A



ஏ ஆத்தா ஆத்தோரமா வாரியா
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkTJXOAuld4



சாலையோரம் சோலை ஒன்று ஆடும்
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5iTKqdukys



மணியோசை கேட்டு எழுந்து
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmPr84k47H0



வைகறையில் வைகைக்கரையில்
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh7o1uFfdUo


Smile

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  app_engine on Thu May 29, 2014 7:27 pm

For some reason, the first song won't appear "embedded" Embarassed

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  counterpoint on Thu May 29, 2014 11:20 pm

Easier than picking the best song is picking the most annoying song, Maniosai kettu ezhindhu :-) The coughing and all that conjured up drama used to grate even back then. The tune itself is a poor cousin of Maatha un kovilil.

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  crimson king on Fri May 30, 2014 4:41 am

I dislike Vaigaraiyil too.  Nothing wrong with the song for the situation it was composed, but outside that context, I don't enjoy it, too much ubu-fying.  

Waiting for the Ninaivellam Nithya poll.  That's going to be one of the toughest to decide.

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  groucho070 on Fri May 30, 2014 5:17 am

Good subject.

I won't attempt to be different and say, "Hey Attha" is the best (the song was banned, I believe, in our local radio because the dickheads cannot differentiate the variations of "Attha"..calling mother to river it seems..perverted buggers). 
 s
As I said, Ilaya Nila, no doubt. Lots of care and attention paid to this song because it was supposed to goddam attract the heroine's attention. A paper with poetry flies off, our hero picks it up, grabs a guitar, picks and strums his guitar and belt out a song. Now, how cool is that???

But the guitar work threatens to overshadow SPB's golden vocal...that jazzy pushing the limit sound, I see an excavating tractor attempting to get a Jaguar E-type off a cliff (as in the original Italian Job flick). And it did...it goddam did.

The others are supporting roles....Saalai oram just fits the mood...vaigaraiyil...theatrically necessary for the song...and the cough song (that's what we call) proves that SPB was already a better actor than Mohan. 'nuff said.

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  Nerd on Fri May 30, 2014 4:02 pm

Saalai oram - Love those elaborate ludes. The trumpet portions especially. And the strings that pass the baton to SJ in the 2nd interlude. The flute piece which reacts to first line of each charanam.

While SPB was well, SPB I have some issues with SJ's singing, especially in the pallavi. She sounds uncharacteristically melancholic for such a joyful song. May be because of the situation in the film?

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  app_engine on Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:48 pm

Let me start with the "emotional connect" metric.

BTW, one should look at Mohan in this movie as NOT the "mike Mohan" as he was known later (and most people who were born in 80's or later cannot stand him for this reason).

He was may be 2 hits old when PM came (nenjaththaikkiLLAdhE / kiLinjalgaL) and was "neither liked much nor hated much" by the general public. (Some boys thought he was "poor man's Kamal", based on NK / kiLinjalgaL, but that was not a big group, per my observation).

That is, we should not count Mohan as a "baggage" when gauging the actual emotional connect this movie had on public (i.e. ones like me) in 1982 Smile
(I know it is not possible to view the movie that way for people who were born later...but I need to encourage people to watch this movie with no prejudice against him, just look at him as a newbie-upcoming-actor and it will be a different experience).

Also, the movie was in some ways rAsA's own tale, i.e. just the musician part (it was featuring a singer but the mileau suits any kind of aspiring musician of those days and rAsA was one at some point of time).

That way, that "single-teakkE-singi-adikkum" fellow catapulting to fame could be directly correlated to rAsA's life!

My emotional connect comes from that angle...


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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  app_engine on Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:04 pm

On a scale of 25, for "emotional connect" (includes sichchuvEshan, on-screen thingy etc as well):

iLaya nilA - The moment SPB starts iLaya nilA one gets goosebumps! Both the joy in the song and the positive / musical way the musician approaches the "fallen-paper" are great mood-enhancers! The song never fails to lift up my feelings! 23/25

rAga deepam EtRum nEram - annakkiLi recording has this legend of "power failure" "tape failure" thingies...the rain-almost-playing-spoilsport is so nicely emoted by the song (of course, SPB doing a major share but prelude / first interlude are terrific on that count as well). The switch to happiness in the second interlude is terrific and the melody for second saraNam is a shift as well, to suit the mood - very soothing / calming effect! 22/25

thOgai iLamayil - what a drama on the TV station! When the guy realizes it's the same "iLaya nilA" girl who got him TV chance, he switches the pAdal to a "love song" Laughing While the cinematic dance movements by heroini are a distraction when watching, the song creates such a mood of mirth when listening! The interludes serve to create a strong happy sensation as well! 23/25

Ey AthA - joy ride all the way! On-screen, it was a historic song - depicting how TN was going thru dramatic transformation in the IR era, w.r.t. appreciation of TFM - another personal mood-booster for me! 22/25

sAlaiyOram sOlai onRu Adum - though the setting is somewhat novel ("planned" dreaming after phone call), it's somewhat cinematic. The interludes and singing help soar one's spirit. (Personally, I have a lot of nostalgia listening to this song - rather all PM songs - under various settings over the years and hence they never fail to thrill me)...22/25

maNiyOsai kEttu ezhundhu - it was great when arrived, used to feel bad for the situation those days (I mentioned earlier in posts about hostel sessions of imitating the irumals...) Those were the days when sOgappAttu was as big a hit as sugappAttu...22/25

vaigaraiyil vaigai karaiyil - Lot of personal memories again Smile SPB evokes a lot of strong emotions thru his singing... 22/25

Many shades and colors of emotions in all the songs, the joy was not one dimensional and neither was the sadness unidimensional...variety was the order of the day those days!


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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  V_S on Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:08 pm

App ji,
kalakkal precursor and excellent post on PayaNangaL mudivathillai emotional connect aspect. Great to read the way you relate Raja's life with this film and music. the clap
Again a tough choice for me to select 1 out of 7 (even tougher than Agni Natchathiram). ILaya Nila and the moment you described when the song starts. The song starts exactly when Poornima starts to pen the song again (after they lost their first written one). That was one goose-bump moment, I can never forget.

Mohan may not be a top-class one, but he does his job efficiently and way better than 'non-acting' heroes of today (IMHO). As I told earlier this was the first movie I cut the class and watched it at that age. It is a very special movie, just because the way the world looked to me before this movie and afterwards was totally different. I might vote for yEh aaththa just for the sheer energy and because that was the song which comes exactly during our PT period time and because it was the most audible song at our school playground which was just next to the theater. This is the song I would have listened countless times without my knowledge. I would be playing, but back of my mind and ears, I never skipped hearing the song. I would hum the song as I play, such was the impact.

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  Nerd on Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:05 am

Appji - Even if we don't reach the threshold of >= 10 votes, I think your posts are reasons enough to continue this series  Very Happy

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  app_engine on Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:14 pm

Nerd,
Smile

Also, EmbarassedEmbarassed

Now, over to lyrics...

Unlike AN which was 100% Vaali, here we have three lyricists and I should work hard to suppress any pro/anti bias Smile

iLaya nilA, thOgai iLamayil & sAlaiyOram - Vairamuthu
yE AththA, vaigaraiyil - Gangai Amaran
rAga deepam, maNiyOsai - Muthulingam

iLaya nilA - terrific imagination (முகிலினங்கள் அலைகிறதே முகவரிகள் தொலைந்தனவோ? முகவரிகள் தவறியதால் அழுதிடுமோ அது மழையோ? WOW!), one of VM's best numbers ever, without question! Of course, it started as சலவை நிலா and rAsA had to wash it, it seems Laughing  8/10

thOgai iLamayil - another beauty, the first line itself is a googly - reversing the natural process to make a hyperbole of the beauty of the girl  -"மயிலின் ஆட்டத்தால் மழை வருமோ?". Then comes the terrific bouncer, "காற்றோடு கல்யாணம் செய்கின்றதோ"! While VM does all the trickery of bowlers in the pallavi, he scores 4's and 6's as a seasoned batsman in saraNams ("பூமியெங்கும் பூந்தோட்டம் நாம் காண வேண்டும்" is such a lovely thought, nicely inserted in a love song!, then there are "விழிகளிலே காதல் உலா நடத்துகிறாள்" / "அன்னமும் இவளிடம் நடை பழகும்" kinds, sweet!) , winning the hearts of all!  9/10

sAlaiyOram sOlai onRu - I'm not sure if this was the first ever reference of girl as "sOlai" but definitely not the last - there had been ton of them later on...The rest of the lines are typical cinematic ones but none irritating, at least at the time of arrival - too many repeats of vErvai / dhAgam etc in the later years made them irritating...in any case, this song is full of VM-isms Smile  5/10

rAga deepam EtRum nEram - lines fit the situation very well and the transformation in second saraNam is terrific, despite the adukkuththodar usage (பொங்கப்பொங்க / கொஞ்சக்கொஞ்ச / துள்ளத்துள்ள / சொல்லச்சொல்ல). 5/10

maNiyOsai kEttu ezhundhu - once again situational number but the lines are penned in a nice way. The pallavi is terrific ("இங்கு மூடுதல் முறையோ" is such a cry that touches inner feelings). Some cinematic Kannan-Radhai reference that distracts in the saraNam also shows kaRpanai vaRatchi...5/10

Ey AththA - Regardless of the linguistic allowance for the word (to use for a girl other than mother), considering the vehicle this got placed in - a janaranjaga song by the top MD of TN - such pallavi was quite damaging Sad  There was nothing much in the rest of lines to appreciate as well...will give 2/10, just for matching the tune smoothly.

vaigaraiyil - Fits the situation beautifully and the first line's word play is good (if not great). 6/10


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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  kv on Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:51 pm

While Ilaya nila's guitar exuberance might be very apparent, the guitar and bass work in thOgai ilamayil is no less brilliant, IMO. Yeah, it doesn't have the killer acoustic leads of the former but kinda compensates this with the bass lines, sitar and veena pieces. The tune's so lovely, dripping with Karnatic beauty and depth. I think it operates fully within the LathAngi scale but its construction is very interesting. Firstly, there's no use of Ma at all. And according to the chart, there's no such Janya listed under Lathangi that is sans Ma only. In addition to this quirk, if you observe the song, in both, the pallavi and charanams, he limits the use of one other note - Dha - which occurs only sparsely, but wherever it does, it lends a nice tension to the composition. In the pallavi, its not until the very end where he introduces it in the line 'kAtrOdu kalyAnam seiginradhO'. Again, in the charanams, Dha features only towards the end - 'vizhigalilE kAdhal vizha'. It's difficult to not notice these occurrences and is not something you'd expect only trained ears to catch. There's a subtle but sure shift in the mood and emotions, a melancholic thread that gets weaved in without spoiling the overall mood and fabric of the song. This quality might be inherent to the LathAngi scale itself but takes a composer with sound understanding of music to create a tune incorporating such elements in it. And of course, there's that killer charanam-pallavi bridge which is #onlyRaajafossible.

So, IN vs TI - 3 votes each. #kamaan 
PS - Glad to see hey aatha get a vote! Surely among the best kuththu songs from the man #saavadi  cool3 
(The poll can't/doesn't display the names against the votes, eh?)

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  Nerd on Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:50 pm

kvji and his cameo appearances  cheers 

I still can't decide between TI and IN. HA also. This is far more difficult than AN for me. TI has SPB having fun like only he can. Who wudnt anyway :-) Happy birthday sir.

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  app_engine on Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:14 pm

Singing - one of the key aspects of this album (especially the male voice) as the movie is about a singer Smile

SPB was in his top form in this period, IMHO. SJ had limited work in the movie (two duets, no solos. Of the duets too, one had SPB doing irumal / seRumal, stealing the show - SJ had to do some melancholy only there...in the other too, it was, like, 'just-another-day-at-work' for her, though good, much above her peers etc).

So, the question is more or less like how did SPB fit into that particular composition and put it in a scale of 15 Laughing

iLaya nilA - One of the sweetest playback performances by SPB IMHO. So endearing is his voice in this song! Also his minor embellishments to the guitar-dominated number. With limited scope in melody, less opportunity to "shine" etc (like a pace bowler on a flat wicket), he still ensures his strong presence! 12/15

thOgai iLamayil - SPB has slightly more chance to shine in this song (especially portions like 'காற்றோடு கல்யாணம் செய்கின்றதோ' of pallavi, 'நடத்துகிறாள் சாகுந்தலா' of saraNam) and he hits sixes with them! Very sweet singing that steals one's heart! 12/15

rAgadheepam - The anguish to start with, the cries with porumal to the deity in the first saraNam ("வாடிடும் என் நெஞ்சம் குளிர்ந்திடுமோ, வசந்தமும் என் வாழ்வில் மலர்ந்திடுமோ") are terrific! The voice actor cools down and switches to a different emotion in the second saraNam effortlessly ("ஆனந்த கங்கை வெள்ளம் பொங்கப்பொங்க")! Another classic work by SPB! 13/15

Ey AththA - SPB does a neat job! 10/15

sAlaiyOram sOlai onRu - SPB / SJ both are sweet (should I even mention this, have they ever not been in any of their duets?) and do their best within the scope of the composition - 11/15

maNiyOsai kEttu ezhundhu - The terrific voice control and appropriate packing of emotions like only SPB can do + soft support by SJ - excellent! 13/15

vaigaraiyil vaigai karaiyil - Another SPB special, without sounding too melodramatic or visumbals / crying etc, SPB hits out emotional stuff! 13/15


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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  V_S on Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:01 am

kv, Thanks for enlightening post on thOgai iLamayil. Nice to know all the details. I voted for yEh aaththaa Smile

App ji, as usual you rock!

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  rajkumarc on Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:54 am

There is not really a song that I don't like in this album. Really hard to choose between Ilaya Nila and Thogai Ilamayil. My votes will always be biased towards the orchestration and I'm picking the song with the best guitar solo work in IFM ever. Ilaya Nila it is for me.

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  vicks on Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:59 am

voted for Saalaioram solai ondru for a few reasons -



1. I love this song!
2. all songs in this album are amazing, particularly, Ilaya Nila has acheived an iconic status as THE guitar song of TFM and obviously gets many votes, and like everyone else, Its one of my favourites as well.
3. that said, Saalaioram is a monster of a song, and IMO the song with the most complex orchestration in this album -  in terms of number & vareity of instruments - brass sections, strings, flute, guitars; length and sheer beauty of all 3 BGMs, and overall, one of the peppiest songs from Maestro
4. and finally, hoping the experts will post their analyses of this song  Smile

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  app_engine on Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:30 am

When PM came out, I felt two of the songs were not so IR-ish on the melody front (vaigaraiyil & rAgadeepam, I was a little bit disappointed at that time that they were sounding like "devotionals").

But such opinions were from my level of non-understanding at that time. Obviously, as IR himself says, he doesn't like two songs to be "one-like-another".  That way, my late realization is, rAsA kept changing all the time, not just on orch or tech, but on the melody "contruct" as well Embarassed 

However, the listeners often tend to bind some of them together and say "hey, that one is rAjAish melody / this one is not /blA blA". Like I did during the arrival of PM and was inclined to keep those two numbers with a slightly lower rating. Obviously, not any more - as my own musical sensibilities have become a lot more mature and I can appreciate the melody variations a lot better during recent years Smile

Let me try to see the PM songs from today's prism and award on a scale of 25 for melody...

iLaya nilA - sweet number, with more things happening in saraNam than pallavi (IMO). The "breaks" in pallavi (i.e. strictly speaking, iLaya nilA - break - pozhigiRadhE - break - idhayam varai - break - nanaigiRadhE - break) make them not extraordinary from a purely melody PoV...nevertheless, it takes off nicely from ulAppOgum nEram! (Of course SPB smoothens out those breaks as only he can and the guitar more than covers up for the breaks)! While it is greatly helped by the "call-response-stuff", doesn't mean it's a pushover, I've been listening to this for 30+ years, 1000's of times and even now it can run on repeat for hours - something's got to be in the tune! 20/25

thOgai iLamayil - obviously a superior, ICM based melody! As KV mentioned, terrific saraNam to pallavi connect! 21/25

rAga deepam - as it dawned upon me in the recent times, this is a rarity of a song - great variations in the melody that keep the interest going until the end! The song will be a winner even if one strips it off of all the orch - 24/25

Ey AththA - themmAngu, free flowing sweetie! The last portion of saraNam is "sokka vaikkum" variety! ("மாருல குளிருது சேத்தென்ன அணச்சா தீருமடி குளிரும் கட்டிப்புடிச்சுக்க!") 20/25

sAlaiyOram - though there's a mild resemblance on the first phrase to the silsilA song (which occured just around the same time period), the whole song is free-flowing type and enjoyable! 20/25

maNiyOsai kEttu ezhundhu - simple melody! (Some have alleged that this resembles 'mAdhA un kOvilil' but personally I don't feel so - i.e. note for note, definitely different, though both evoke similar feel. Of course, mAdhA was a better melody than maNiyOsai...) 20/25

vaigaraiyil - IMHO, this is a lot more complex that what it appears to be in the initial listen ("devotional"). Saranam is full of variations and the ending 'Ah-Ah' is terrific! 22/25

Smile

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Re: Best song in Payanangal Mudivathillai

Post  app_engine on Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:18 pm

The last parameter (and most important one for IRF's), orch, is to be rated now.

We've been talking about this all the time and hence my post should be a short one for this Smile

iLaya nilA - "இதுக்கு மேல நல்லா வேணும்"னு நான் சொன்னால், என் காதில் ஈயத்தத் தான் காச்சி ஊத்தோணும்! 25/25

thOgai iLamayil - அருமையான தாள வாத்தியங்கள், இனிக்கும் கிட்டார் சத்தங்கள் & நல்ல குழலோசை! வீணையும் (அல்லது அது போல் சத்தமிடும் கிட்டார்) இனிமை சேர்க்கிறது! 20/25

rAgadeepam, maNiyOsai, vaigaraiyil - இந்த மூணு பாட்டுகளும் படத்தில் உள்ள சூழமைவுக்கேற்ற  வகையில் அருமையான கருவிக்கூட்ட இசை பெறுகின்றன! 19/25

Ey AththA - கிட்டாரும் ஷெனாயும் சேர்ந்து குறும்பில் கொப்பளித்து நடக்கும் பாட்டு! துள்ளலான தாள இசை! மண்ணின் மணம் தூக்கல்! 21/25

sAlaiyOram - தொடக்க இசையில் வரும் ட்ரம்பெட் ஒலியிலேயே நாம் சொக்கி உட்காருவோம்! அருமையான கார்ட்ஸ் ஒலியுடனும், தந்தி நாதங்களுடனும் மெய் சிலிர்க்க / மெய் மறக்க வைக்கும் பாடல்! கருவி இசைக்கோர்வையில் ராசாவின் இன்னுமொரு உன்னதம்! 24/25

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