Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  crimson king on Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:28 pm

My view from up in Mumbai is that ARR has never really become a major part of Bollywood music in the way that IR was in TN throughout the 80s and up to mid 90s. That is entirely due to the extremely small no. of projects he takes up.  The only time I felt ARR becoming a real rage was with Bombay and Dil Se, especially Chaiyya Chaiyya.  Of course ARR has a seemingly permanent market in Bollywood and any time he's signed up is for a very high profile project.  But it's more of an event than a wave.  There never really was a Rahman wave here in the way there was in Chennai.  Up to the end of the 90s, Anu Malik, Jatin Lalit and Nadeem Shravan held fort.  After DCH, SEL became the new sort of no.1 and Himesh Reshammiya had a phase in the middle where one had to endure his nasal hits.  Now the field is split evenly between a handful or more of music directors - SEL, Salim-Suleiman, Sajid-Wajid, Vishal-Shekhar, Pritam and Amit Trivedi.  While Rahman has never scored films with the speed of IR, he was at least averaging 7-8 films a year for sometime in the 90s.  That has never happened in Hindi so he is more like an exotic flavour rather than a staple.  And over the last three-four years, I feel his influence waning even more.  The media claims that the music of Rockstar or Ranjhanaa was a 'hit' but I have hardly heard their songs at all on radio whereas I can't count the no. of times they play Tere mast mast, Dagabaaz or even the music of Jannat which remains popular even now, five years after its release.  I assume the 'hit' status is more on account of high album sales to loyal fans, sort of like NEPV you could say.  Saans and Jiya Re from JTJH did get a lot more repeats on radio because ARR tried to fit his style into the commercial Yashraj music format rather than doing that supposedly exotic stuff that goes right over without making much of an impact (read Kadal  Twisted Evil ).

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Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  Thirukovur Balaji Prasad on Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:49 pm

Seems Baradwaj Rangan is hell bent on raking up an old issue in his interview with TM Krishna:


The most interesting parts of the book, to me, are your essays on music — your musings on the Tamil Isai movement, on North American tours by artistes and e-gurus and Ilayaraja’s (in your opinion, wrongful) transposition of Mari mari nine from the raga Kamboji to Saramati

http://www.thehindu.com/features/magazine/i-am-willing-to-give-up-the-kutcheri/article5459781.ece

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Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  Thirukovur Balaji Prasad on Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:13 pm

Regarding the interview in Kumudham: I was traveling in 114A today evening and chanced to hear Nilave Vaa, Mandram Vandha, and Chinna Chinna (by which time my destination had arrived). The driver skipped the song Sugam Sugame in between, much to my dislike. Now, whose songs are always popular?

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  Drunkenmunk on Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:09 pm

Thirukovur Balaji Prasad wrote:Regarding the interview in Kumudham: I was traveling in 114A today evening and chanced to hear Nilave Vaa, Mandram Vandha, and Chinna Chinna (by which time my destination had arrived). The driver skipped the song Sugam Sugame in between, much to my dislike. Now, whose songs are always popular?

I was travelling by car in Chennai today afternoon and Raaja was owning the air space. So not just villages, Raaja dominates air times in the cities in the afternoon and nights. Of course, people hear ARR quite prominently. But even after 38 yrs, commanding programs for him on almost every FM channel across the day, Raaja has his massive following pretty much intact IMO.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  app_engine on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:13 am

BRangan's book translated in Thamizh


அக்னிநட்சத்திரத்தில் காணப்படும் நகர்ப்புற உறவுச் சிக்கல்கள், பம்பாயின் தேசியவாதம், அஞ்சலி இயக்கப்பட்ட விதம், ஒளியமைப்பில் செய்த புதுமைகள், இளையராஜா, ரஹ்மான் இருவருடைய மாறுபட்ட பாணிகள், நாயகன் படத்துக்கு கமல் ஹாசன் கொடுத்த புதிய பரிமாணங்கள், ராவணன் படத்தின் பின்னணி என்று சுவாரஸ்யமான பல விஷயங்கள் இதில் உள்ளன. பாலு மகேந்திரா, பி.சி.ஸ்ரீராம், தோட்டா தரணி, வைரமுத்து, குல்சார் போன்ற திறமைசாலிகளுடனான இனிய நினைவலைகளும் இடம்பெற்றிருக்கின்றன.
போஸ்டர்கள், திரைக்கதைப் பக்கங்கள், படங்கள் ஆகியவற்றுடன் வெளிவரும் இந்தப் புத்தகம் தீவிர திரைப்பட ரசிகர்களுக்கும் சாமானிய வாசகர்களுக்கும் நல்லதொரு விருந்தை அளிக்கிறது

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  fring151 on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:15 pm

Drunkenmunk wrote:
Thirukovur Balaji Prasad wrote:Regarding the interview in Kumudham: I was traveling in 114A today evening and chanced to hear Nilave Vaa, Mandram Vandha, and Chinna Chinna (by which time my destination had arrived). The driver skipped the song Sugam Sugame in between, much to my dislike. Now, whose songs are always popular?

I was travelling by car in Chennai today afternoon and Raaja was owning the air space. So not just villages, Raaja dominates air times in the cities in the afternoon and nights. Of course, people hear ARR quite prominently. But even after 38 yrs, commanding programs for him on almost every FM channel across the day, Raaja has his massive following pretty much intact IMO.

I am visiting Chennai for holidays and took a call taxi back home from airport yesterday. By all appearances, the driver was a typical Chennai youthu, driving the Tata Indica with one arm languidly resting on the lowered window, darting in and out of traffic with the characteristic "I am in control", devil may care nonchalance. He started surfing channels and stopped on "Big FM". Guess what was playing? Madai thiranthu...at 6:30 in the morning. He stopped surfing and listened to the whole song in silence. Next song on the same channel - Maanguyile poonguyile. He ever so hesitantly turns the volume up a little bit, probably unsure if we, the others in the taxi would mind. So I encourage him - "Volume EthalAm saar, nammalum Raja fan thAn". He breaks into a slight smile and raises the volume. The next song is a new age MD song, some random headache inducer, by God knows who, which I have not heard before - thankfully. And our man doesn't waste a second in changing the channel immediately.  Laughing

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  Drunkenmunk on Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:27 pm

Big FM seems to be run by Raaja fans. They have a program from 11 AM to 2 PM called Raajadhi Raaja which has only Raaja songs. Of course, their catchment of songs seems to be from 1976 to early 90s. Would like them to explore more of the new age Raaja but their apparent apprehension seems understandable. And yeah, Raaja still dominates the radio for most part and that is not restricted to Gold and Rainbow, the AIR managed radio stations.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  crimson king on Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:52 pm

In mumbai, big fm has been made over into a retro station since last one year. Maybe they are doing something similar in Chennai

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  kiru on Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:44 am

fring151 wrote:
Drunkenmunk wrote:
Thirukovur Balaji Prasad wrote:Regarding the interview in Kumudham: I was traveling in 114A today evening and chanced to hear Nilave Vaa, Mandram Vandha, and Chinna Chinna (by which time my destination had arrived). The driver skipped the song Sugam Sugame in between, much to my dislike. Now, whose songs are always popular?

I was travelling by car in Chennai today afternoon and Raaja was owning the air space. So not just villages, Raaja dominates air times in the cities in the afternoon and nights. Of course, people hear ARR quite prominently. But even after 38 yrs, commanding programs for him on almost every FM channel across the day, Raaja has his massive following pretty much intact IMO.

I am visiting Chennai for holidays and took a call taxi back home from airport yesterday. By all appearances, the driver was a typical Chennai youthu, driving the Tata Indica with one arm languidly resting on the lowered window, darting in and out of traffic with the characteristic "I am in control", devil may care nonchalance. He started surfing channels and stopped on "Big FM". Guess what was playing? Madai thiranthu...at 6:30 in the morning. He stopped surfing and listened to the whole song in silence. Next song on the same channel - Maanguyile poonguyile. He ever so hesitantly turns the volume up a little bit, probably unsure if we, the others in the taxi would mind. So I encourage him - "Volume EthalAm saar, nammalum Raja fan thAn". He breaks into a slight smile and raises the volume. The next song is a new age MD song, some random headache inducer, by God knows who, which I have not heard before - thankfully. And our man doesn't waste a second in changing the channel immediately.  Laughing

In one interview, Rahman said, he wanted people who wouldn't listen to Indian film music, listen to it. I think Raja's approach is, why would you want to listen to that music, when you can listen to mine :-) Inspite of going to an Anglo-Indian school (with a beautiful church and chapel in campus), I could never relate with western rock/pop that much until I moved to the US (western classical is a different story) . I do know some people in india, who could not speak any indian language properly, but listen to western pop as the mainstay. Dont know whether they understand the lyrics and cultural setting of these songs, or it is just the chord based music and instruments they relate to. So for most of the 'normal' :-) people Raja's music will be the bread and butter..it will be something we personally enjoy and not for pretense/snobbery .. it will be with us when we are happy, sad/melancholic and it will be fun.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  writeface on Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:48 am

kiru wrote: So for most of the 'normal' :-) people Raja's music will be the bread and butter..it will be something we personally enjoy and not  for pretense/snobbery .. it will be with us when we are happy, sad/melancholic and it will be fun.

Kiru, Well said:)

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  crimson king on Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:46 am

I don't think the local culture of a given piece of music has much of an impact.  Or, rather, if it does, it is more by way of a stumbling block to appreciating music from other cultures.  Even though I am a Tamil speaker, I have never been to rural TN so how is it that I love IR's folk songs (in fact it's practically the only folk music I have ever really liked). 

All music ultimately speaks the language of timbre, melody, chords and rhythm.  That is what makes it so unique compared to literature or cinema which require people to understand a certain language to be able to appreciate it (except where translations or subtitles are available, of course).  And I think IR, rather than ARR who tried to shape Indian film music in the manner of MTV Western hits, understood this very well or he would not have given us his unique and unparalleled brand of fusion.  He has on one or two occasions urged people to appreciate the beauty of the great Hindi classics and overcome the language barrier.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  kiru on Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:57 am

@CK - by 'cultural setting' I was referring to the lyrics mainly. Whenever I listen to Simon and Garfunkel, my 4 and 8 yr olds like it and sing along. I am always afraid when they are going to ask me what a 'one night stand' is !!!

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  crimson king on Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:38 am

Imo lyrics have somewhere got overemphasised in popular music. Opera lovers of myriad nationalities have embraced Italian Opera but in popular music people want to stick to their comfort zone. I do like good lyrics but I am ok with not liking it or even understanding it as long as the music is great. I used to ask people who watch Hollywood movies whether they also listened to western music. After finding the question frequently received in a manner as if I asked them the forbidden, I stopped asking. IR opened the world of western music to me in a way ARR's much vaunted international music never did.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  Usha on Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:18 am

IR songs............ Original compositiion ai damage seiyamal........... avanrgalin ideas........ adhu dhan real knowledge......
(anal adhuvum mudiyadhu dhan. Ulladhai than vaasika vendi varum...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeNopDpLxu0

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  V_S on Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:55 am

The best response to the recent kumudham interview the clap Thanks to Suresh ji for sharing this on twitter.

http://www.maalaimalar.com/2013/12/19092300/ilaiyaraja-music-special-view.html

ஆக தாய், மகன், காதல், சமூகம், மனித வாழ்க்கை மற்றும் இறை ஆகியவற்றை அனைவரும் எப்படி அணுகவேண்டும் என்று தனது இசையால் புரியவைத்த ஒற்றை மனிதன் இளையராஜா.


இசை என்ற சக்தியால் மனித இனத்தை அமைதிப்படுத்தியவர், நெறிப்படுத்தியவர் இளையராஜா. ஆனால் இன்றைய இசையமைப்பாளர்கள் வருமானத்திற்காக நமது கலாச்சாரத்தை சீரழிக்க என்னென்ன செய்யவேண்டுமோ அதையெல்லாம் செய்து வருகின்றனர் என்பது உண்மை. ஆனால் இந்த உண்மையை மறைத்து ராஜா காலத்து ரசனை மாறிவிட்டது என்று கூறுவது ஏற்க முடியாத ஒன்றாகும்.

முடிந்தால் தங்கள் திறமைகளை, கருவிகளை பயன்படுத்தி பாசம், காதல், சமூகம், மனித வாழ்க்கை மற்றும் இறை ஆகியவற்றை புதிய முறையில் எப்படி அணுகலாம் என முயற்சிக்கவேண்டும்.

இதுவே இசையமைப்பாளனின் நோக்கமாக இருக்கவேண்டும். வெறும் வருமானம் மட்டும் முக்கியமென்றால் எனக்கு சமூகத்தைப் பற்றி அக்கறையில்லை என வெளிப்படையாக கூறவேண்டும். அதை விட்டு ரசனை மாறிவிட்டதென்று மற்றவர்கள் மேல் பழிபோடக்கூடாது.

தாய் எப்படி தன் குழந்தைக்கு தீங்கிழைக்கமாட்டாளோ அதைப்போல சமூகம் என்ற குழந்தைக்கு தாயாக விளங்கும் இசையமைப்பாளர்களும் சமூகத்திற்கு தீங்கிழைக்க முற்படக்கூடாது என்பதே அனைவரின் எதிர்பார்ப்பு.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  fring151 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:55 pm

Regarding the discussion on influence of culture and setting, IMO there IS a barrier for most people, even disregarding the lyrics. I think it is easier to appreciate music which incorporates native sounds and motifs. Every Tamil person, whether they grew up in a village or not, is familiar with the sounds of the Nadaswaram, Veena etc. Those who grew up in CCM bastions have an appreciation for raaga based music just as those who grew up in villages are familiar with local folk songs. And for such listeners, listening to songs like Aayiram thAmarai mottukale which incorporate so many native elements and sound so familiar, yet so unique is a much more intimate experience. Even though I have a reasonable exposure to WCM, certain orchestral parts involving, say, the oboe, basson or tuba still sound quite foreign and just don't have much of an emotional impact on me. I also simply cannot endure the Chinese harp. But that is fine since IMO, music which has no roots ends up sounding generic and vacuous, like 'International music'.

Having said that, I do concede that there are a lot of real genuine music fans who are able to appreciate music from different cultures, like the western afficionados of Ravi Shankar or paamaran fans of wcm, jazz or rock, though I would think it takes some time, effort and in some cases, peer pressure for it to grow on them. Of course there is a good chunk of people who listen to western pop because it is cool, but we shouldn't even be discussing them anyway, so....

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  crimson king on Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:17 pm

I fully agree that culture is a barrier.  So, rather, my argument is that composers who make it easier to overcome these barriers enrich the experience of listeners.  I don't think the intent of ARR to bring what HE saw as Western influences to film music was necessarily bad but the way he did it became very superficial over a period of time. There have been musicians before Ilayaraja who could write music to appeal to the tastes of the quintessential Tamil audience.  The beauty of Ilayaraja's music is not that but what he also taught us to open our minds to while wrapping it up in our favourite flavours but, as Ravi sir keeps saying, not for a moment should we doubt how Western it is.  Even Raasathi Unnai, which made elephants dance to its tune, has a second interlude that would fit right into a Western composition with no addition/subtraction. 

The self made small time entrepreneur guy who delivers idli maavu to us everyday listens to Ilayaraja songs all the time, very loudly at that because he's partly deaf.  IR has made people of all kinds of backgrounds embrace an unique brand of Indo-Western fusion, rather than trying to present it in a way that appeals to snob value.  I am doubtful that his achievements will ever be emulated again (though I hope they will) because it takes a once in a lifetime genius to find beauty in both earthy folk music and high brow classical music.  Most musicians sadly want to align themselves with one at the exclusion of the other to appeal to their respective demographics (the old pattikatta pattanama debate).  IR has proved that it is a meaningless debate that only closes our mind.  Why shouldn't pattikattu and pattanam be one and the same.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  fring151 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:22 pm

It appears both of us are essentially saying the same thing  Smile. If you read the previous post by V_Sji, that person says the same thing about the Kumudham interview where ARR declared "IR kAlathu makkalin rasanai mArivittadhu" ,"grAmangalil en pAdalgal kEtkAdhavargal yArum illai ". He is basically calling it a cop out - an excuse to continue making easy money by making rubbish music that appeals to the lowest common denominator (not specifically ARR, but current MDs in general). Good takedown.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  crimson king on Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:48 pm

That ARR will do anything in the name of commercial success is nothing new. It was he who began expressing helplessness over public tastes and producers' demands just like the Anu Maliks and Jatin Lalits.  A cop out, as you say.

Anyhow, my point is, let's not project IR as the man who can write music that normal Tamil people can understand; that only plays into 'their' violin-and-tabla-man argument.  That is incidental.  Whatever linguistic medium he had chosen, it is hard to imagine him not doing something brilliant with it.  His music is all encompassing and universal and that is why much to ARR's chagrin, people still listen to his songs.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  kiru on Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:24 pm

crimson king wrote:...much to ARR's chagrin, people still listen to his songs.
Where and how did you get this impression ? (Note, I also think, ARR is annoyed that IR 'just wouldn't go away'.. a guy who likes to mess with computers and electronics now shows up in all interviews with a piano and writing notes !!!)

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  jaiganesh on Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:03 pm

kiru wrote:
crimson king wrote:...much to ARR's chagrin, people still listen to his songs.
Where and how did you get this impression ? (Note, I also think, ARR is annoyed that IR 'just wouldn't go away'.. a guy who likes to mess with computers and electronics now shows up in all interviews with a piano and writing notes !!!)
more than 'wouldnt go away' - it is the sadness of having to 'act and behave like a Maestro' that must be most uncomfortable to this new age anarchic rule breaker..
Otherwise, I personally dont like the angle of questioning one MD about another MD while fully knowing that it is uncommfortable. Just imagine what IR would have
replied to a similar question? "Idhu ungal thalai vidhi, yaar enna ketkiraargal endru aaraayvadhu en velai illai" kind of response . which is fine - just that it shows how irritated he must feel as a composer to answer such 'comparison' questions..

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  crimson king on Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:06 am

kiru wrote:
crimson king wrote:...much to ARR's chagrin, people still listen to his songs.
Where and how did you get this impression ? (Note, I also think, ARR is annoyed that IR 'just wouldn't go away'.. a guy who likes to mess with computers and electronics now shows up in all interviews with a piano and writing notes !!!)


The reaction to that question in the kumudham interview.  I mean, the statement that there's nobody in villages who hasn't heard my music is way overemphatic.  It suggests that beneath his "oh, IR is definitely a genius" facade, it does bother him.  Why should he care so much about who listens to what in the villages?  And, sorry to put it so bluntly, but when was the last time he went to so many villages, ivalo urudhi-a yeppadi solla mudiyum?


Last edited by crimson king on Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:09 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  crimson king on Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:09 am

jaiganesh wrote:
kiru wrote:
crimson king wrote:...much to ARR's chagrin, people still listen to his songs.
Where and how did you get this impression ? (Note, I also think, ARR is annoyed that IR 'just wouldn't go away'.. a guy who likes to mess with computers and electronics now shows up in all interviews with a piano and writing notes !!!)
more than 'wouldnt go away' - it is the sadness of having to 'act and behave like a Maestro' that must be most uncomfortable to this new age anarchic rule breaker..
Otherwise, I personally dont like the angle of questioning one MD about another MD while fully knowing that it is uncommfortable. Just imagine what IR would have
replied to a similar question? "Idhu ungal thalai vidhi, yaar enna ketkiraargal endru aaraayvadhu en velai illai" kind of response . which is fine - just that it shows how irritated he must feel as a composer to answer such 'comparison' questions..


Irritated maybe but that would at least be more of an honest response.  IR openly admitted in the GVM interview that he does not know why the audience likes his music and he cannot control his music.  By becoming so anxious about what public likes, ARR has more or less stooped down to the level of the likes of Rohit Shetty/Prabhu Deva mass market hitmakers.  The whole idea that you can control public tastes and you know what they like sounds deluded to me.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  fring151 on Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:24 am

crimson king wrote:Anyhow, my point is, let's not project IR as the man who can write music that normal Tamil people can understand; that only plays into 'their' violin-and-tabla-man argument.  That is incidental.  Whatever linguistic medium he had chosen, it is hard to imagine him not doing something brilliant with it.  His music is all encompassing and universal and that is why much to ARR's chagrin, people still listen to his songs.

Yes, I understand your point. Chopin's music is considered 'very Polish' and part of their national identity, but that doesn't diminish my experience of hearing his music. My point was only that the nativity factor in Raja's music enhances the joy for some listeners, and not just Tamils. Any Telugu or Malayali person and they will tell you just how 'Telugu' and 'Mallu' his music is. IR himself has said that it is a wonder how he is able to inject that native flavour into his compositions in different languages. I think he is intimately familiar with the way of life and traditions of not just rural Tamil Nadu, but all of South India and many different communities and religions. Remember that he speaks all 4 south Indian languages and is well-read in Sanskrit as well and I think his music reflects that. Contrary to what our contrarian friend thinks, he is not an 'Anpad'. One doesn't need to be read in Shakespeare to be considered an intellectual, you know. So, ya, none of the above takes away from the enjoyment of general listener and as we have seen on occasion, even the random foreigner who is exposed to his music is often dazzled by it.

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Re: Anything about IR found on the net - Vol 2

Post  crimson king on Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:47 am

chopin is a good example. For that matter many great classical composers have been influenced by their native folk music. And yet their emotions are universal. I maintain that that is usually the case with the works of great composers. Even in the purely instrumental albums or his BGM themes, his character is always recognisable. His understanding of south indian culture makes it more accessible to that audience but his music reaches out beyond those boundaries. I do wish he had made many more instrumental albums. Often times the emotions in his interludes overshadows the vocals. ARR and mr contrarian can pretend he is just a film music director and that says more about their close mindedness than the boundaries, if any, of his music.

,

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