Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  crimson king on Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:40 am

Ditto, though when I heard the song what eight years back, I knew a storm was coming right after that synth passage.

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  Usha on Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:47 pm

Synth IR..

Kanna unai thedugiren  - all songs are tooo good.

my picks are  . kovil mani kaetenae  2. vanji kodi


http://tamiltunes.com/kanna-unnai-thedukiren.html


Melamasi veedhiyilae  - IR and KC  - Punniyavathi

http://www.raaga.com/channels/tamil/moviedetail.asp?mid=t0002893

lovely Beats. Beautiful Chorus. Sweet Guitar. Sweetest Flute. (indha paatai naan kaeka arambichadhum.. en paiyan.. alaruvan... nonstop a.. kaeka poraiyae .. nu.......Very Happy


Recent number --   Maripeelikaate  - Madhu balakrishnan......... Soft Renditiion of Madhu.  Lovely Compositiiion of IR.
Love a lot............ Soulful Number.

http://mp3songsonly4u.blogspot.in/2012/09/puthiya-theerangal.html

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  crimson king on Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:30 pm

A point I made on Rajendra sir's group in orkut (which is still alive!) which I am posting here as it might make for interesting discussions.  

"IR's use of bass guitar certainly identifies his music as unique and distinct from everything else in Tamil - or for that matter Hindi - film music.  I was listening to Thedum Kanpaarvai today.  For a long time I didn't know the film for the music was co-created by IR and MSV and further that melodies were handled by MSV and orchestration by IR.  More to the point, I never 'suspected' MSV's role in the music.  This is because, if you listen carefully in the charanam, there is a well developed layer of bass guitar not just accompanying but interacting with the vocal melody.  Bass's traditional role is to provide rhythmic support but IR uses it as a harmonic function.  This approach distinctly colours all his music and is probably one of the main reasons why we can almost immediately identify a song as an Ilayaraja's composition.   Nobody else in film music really does this and even in Western music, only the best artists in rock/pop music or, of course, classical composers handle bass in this way."

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  kiru on Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:48 pm

@CK - this was analyzed on tfmpages during the early days of Rahman and knowledgeable people opined that IR is probably using a baroque technique called -http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basso_continuo .
If you read Violin Vicky's articles (I think) IR' s approach is a bit hybrid - it does provide rhythm support at times and switches to harmony/counter melody also.

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  fring151 on Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:53 am

I am yet to hear a song with a bassline as dynamic as Vaan megam by anyone but IR in all of TFM, HF or even rock for that matter. A favourite song with bass dominated interludes is Eeramaana rojaave where it is so prominent that whenever I listen to that song, I end up following only the bass guitar.

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  crimson king on Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:13 am

kiru wrote:@CK - this was analyzed on tfmpages during the early days of Rahman and knowledgeable people opined that IR is probably using a baroque technique called -http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basso_continuo .
If you read Violin Vicky's articles (I think) IR' s approach is a bit hybrid - it does provide rhythm support at times and switches to harmony/counter melody also.
Quite possible and it would fit into the generally extensive baroque influence on his music.  Yes, I agree he does use bass to provide rhythm support.  It seems to be relatively easier for composers to master, so somebody who regularly uses bass as a harmonic function can probably shift to a more straight up use of bass rather than vice versa.

Continuing with the Thedum Kanpaarvai example, the softness with which both the piano chords as well as the string accompaniment are played also serve to make over an MSV melody as an Ilayaraja composition.  That atmosphere of simmering tension and tantalizing suspense is, again, unique to his music so far as film music goes. I am not sure that if MSV had himself orchestrated the song, it would have generated the same emotions (even if it may have still been a great song in its own right as it is a lovely melody). It raises the question whether emotions in IR's music inform more through harmony than melody (and also fits with Ravi's theory that IR is first and foremost a Western music composer).

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  fring151 on Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:35 am

crimson king wrote:Continuing with the Thedum Kanpaarvai example, the softness with which both the piano chords as well as the string accompaniment are played also serve to make over an MSV melody as an Ilayaraja composition.  That atmosphere of simmering tension and tantalizing suspense is, again, unique to his music so far as film music goes. I am not sure that if MSV had himself orchestrated the song, it would have generated the same emotions (even if it may have still been a great song in its own right as it is a lovely melody). It raises the question whether emotions in IR's music inform more through harmony than melody (and also fits with Ravi's theory that IR is first and foremost a Western music composer).
He is certainly much more adept at it than others in IFM but I would not say that it is always the case. In interludes, nearly always, but in the vocal stanzas there is Mounamana neram, Sundari kannal oru seidhi, un paarvayil Or aayiram and all those other 'Tabla supporting melody songs' and semi-classicals like Vedham anuvilum etc which are also quite effective in emotional manipulation IMO.

It is hard to imagine how TKP and Vaa ennila would have sounded had MSV done the orch! I too used to think it was a total IR song.

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  crimson king on Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:44 am

I am not saying the melodies don't carry emotion by themselves and semi classical numbers tend to depend more on the melody anyway.  But, especially the more mysterious/ nuanced emotions he has tried to project in songs like En Iniya Pon, Raja Raja Cholan, Uravenum, Mandram Vandha or the more recent Sattru Munbu, the harmony is probably indispensable to conveying those emotions.  

Yes, Vaa Vennila too, or the entire soundtrack for that matter.  IR takes the melody and manipulates the mood in his own way with the orchestration until it ends up a different song from what it might have been with more conventional IFM treatment.

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  fring151 on Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:52 am

crimson king wrote:But, especially the more mysterious/ nuanced emotions he has tried to project in songs like En Iniya Pon, Raja Raja Cholan, Uravenum, Mandram Vandha or the more recent Sattru Munbu, the harmony is probably indispensable to conveying those emotions.  
No question about it. And we know how some of songs sound with poor harmonic treatment - we have been subjected to it by Stephen Devassy and others in ASS Twisted Evil

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  crimson king on Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:55 am

Given the way that show is going now, ASS is a pretty apt abbreviation.

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  fring151 on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:02 am

crimson king wrote:Given the way that show is going now, ASS is a pretty apt abbreviation.
lol! 

And we aren't the only ones pained. Just read the youtube comments. Not too many people have very many pleasant things to say about the judges.

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  crimson king on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:18 am

Ok, fring, here's a brass special for you.  Nice, loud and boisterous but stylish interludes.  My father says he watched this movie twice in theater just because he couldn't get over how IR had composed this song:


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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  fring151 on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:36 am

Lol. Did you guess that I wouldn't have heard this song? Because, actually when I looked at the title of the song, it didn't ring a bell at all. But as it turned out, I was in for another pleasant surprise Very Happy. Know what, I probably haven't heard this song since 8th or 9th Std. That's two songs you have shared in two days which I haven't heard in eons - Seer Kondu vaa and now this. We used to have a big collection of Rajni video cassettes at home, both movies and songs and that's where I probably last heard it (have also watched the movie, though I don't remember much about it). Ya, ya I was a HCRF back then Razz.

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  crimson king on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:41 am

No, I thought rather that no way you wouldn't have heard it but it's never too soon to relive an IR classic, is it? Very Happy Oh, and pleasure is all mine.

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  crimson king on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:57 am

A song that somehow doesn't get much credit even though Oru Killi from the same film is very popular.  Very touching interludes and great singing as well:


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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  crimson king on Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:09 pm

Usha wrote:Synth IR..

Kanna unai thedugiren  - all songs are tooo good.

my picks are  . kovil mani kaetenae  2. vanji kodi


http://tamiltunes.com/kanna-unnai-thedukiren.html


Melamasi veedhiyilae  - IR and KC  - Punniyavathi

http://www.raaga.com/channels/tamil/moviedetail.asp?mid=t0002893

lovely Beats. Beautiful Chorus. Sweet Guitar. Sweetest Flute. (indha paatai naan kaeka arambichadhum.. en paiyan.. alaruvan... nonstop a.. kaeka poraiyae .. nu.......Very Happy


Recent number --   Maripeelikaate  - Madhu balakrishnan......... Soft Renditiion of Madhu.  Lovely Compositiiion of IR.
Love a lot............ Soulful Number.

http://mp3songsonly4u.blogspot.in/2012/09/puthiya-theerangal.html
Liked both Kovil Mani and Ooru Urangum very much, thanks a lot for sharing.

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  kiru on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:13 pm

crimson king wrote:I am not saying the melodies don't carry emotion by themselves and semi classical numbers tend to depend more on the melody anyway.  But, especially the more mysterious/ nuanced emotions he has tried to project in songs like En Iniya Pon, Raja Raja Cholan, Uravenum, Mandram Vandha or the more recent Sattru Munbu, the harmony is probably indispensable to conveying those emotions.  

Yes, Vaa Vennila too, or the entire soundtrack for that matter.  IR takes the melody and manipulates the mood in his own way with the orchestration until it ends up a different song from what it might have been with more conventional IFM treatment.
I think the base emotions are coming from the raagam IR chooses to compose the song in. But I do believe the song becomes "memorable" becuase of the chords/harmony/accents at the right places.
I also have wondered how this movie would have turned out if MSV had done it completely. To me IR's songs taste like 'whole milk coffee' vs coffee with 'fat free milk'. It is pretty obvious.
I once imagined what would be the minimum # of instruments that a MD needs to make a MVS (minimum viable song). For MSV - tabla, for IR - tabla  & bass guitar, for Rahman - computer :-)

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  kiru on Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:21 pm

fring151 wrote:
crimson king wrote:Given the way that show is going now, ASS is a pretty apt abbreviation.
lol! 

And we aren't the only ones pained. Just read the youtube comments. Not too many people have very many pleasant things to say about the judges.
Yea, I am also very annoyed with the show. Their 'fun' treatment is really dumbing down the show and who knows what sort of a damage it is doing to the young participants. What the heck is this 'performance' thingy ? See how VM explained the way Janaki sings. I guess they are confused with western pop singing. Our film music is almost like classical music, and so should be treated  like WCM with its instrumental and vocal traditions. 
Atleast with IR's music, you cannot  just keep drumming, strumming and singing with all kinds of variations. The whole thing is heavily co-ordinated/orchestrated. They better sing with some seriousness. 
They have an opportunity to inform/educate the audience, but they want to stoop down to the lowest common denominator. Yes, they are making an ASS out of this.

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  fring151 on Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:20 am

kiru wrote:What the heck is this 'performance' thingy ? See how VM explained the way Janaki sings. I guess they are confused with western pop singing. Our film music is almost like classical music, and so should be treated  like WCM with its instrumental and vocal traditions. Atleast with IR's music, you cannot  just keep drumming, strumming and singing with all kinds of variations. The whole thing is heavily co-ordinated/orchestrated. They better sing with some seriousness. They have an opportunity to inform/educate the audience, but they want to stoop down to the lowest common denominator. Yes, they are making an ASS out of this.
You make a very good point. In the public consciousness these days, film music is considered the Indian equivalent of western pop, and popstars like Ani and GVP reinforce that perception. I believe Brit and American reality shows attach lot of value to the 'performance' aspect and it looks like the ASSes want to replicate that nonsense here.

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  crimson king on Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:30 am

Western pop singers didn't necessarily indulge in performance either, at least not at the time when they were still talented. Razz  Karen Carpenter would just stand there with the manners of a respectable schoolgirl and sing.  Blame Simon Cowell for ruining mainstream music, not just in US/UK but even in Asia, as it turns out.

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  fring151 on Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:37 am

Another thing I want to add is that it is apparent IR himself takes the art form of film music very very seriously and demands that it be accorded the same respect as any other great art form. This is why he expects no whistling and no third rate rowdy drunken behaviour at his concerts and gets upset when this happens. This is also why SPB constantly keeps reminding the listeners that just because it is cinema related, don't think it is inferior. IR, in the tradition of KVM, MSV, TKR, Kannadasan and past HFM greats belongs to the school that considers FM as an art form, in many ways quite unique to India, which provides scope for artistic experimentation and mass reach not possible in most other musical genres and they are constantly striving (IR more so than most others) to elevate the musical taste of the masses and raise the profile of FM in the eyes of the classically inclined and common man equally. But then we have someone like James Vasanthan who writes an open letter to IR after the Canada concert saying 'after all this is film music, you should not mind whistling and shouting'. Well, besides the subtle attempt at reducing IR's music to his and other new age MDs's level, such statements also show how seriously these people take their own profession. It increasingly looks like the mission of these new age MDs and post Aascaar ARR (not to mention ASS) is to complete the dumbing down of TFM so it can compete with contemporary western pop for worst music genre ever.

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  crimson king on Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:59 am

fring151 wrote: But then we have someone like James Vasanthan who writes an open letter to IR after the Canada concert saying 'after all this is film music, you should not mind whistling and shouting'. Well, besides the subtle attempt at reducing IR's music to his and other new age MDs's level, such statements also show how seriously these people take their own profession. It increasingly looks like the mission of these new age MDs and post Aascaar ARR (not to mention ASS) is to complete the dumbing down of TFM so it can compete with contemporary western pop for worst music genre ever.
Which is why JV is where he is vis a vis IR, isn't it?  JV, like the other new age MDs, sells himself short.  He dumbs down even before the audience asks.  IR made it very clear in the GVM interview. He never asked anybody to like his music, it was just a spiritual connection between the music and the audience. Ergo, he is also not going to oblige anyone just for the sake of the adulation heaped on him.  Besides which, what JV said is the most dishonest thing a musician can ever say, sorry.  I have been to jazz concerts and people only clap when the soloist has finished his improv.  That is NOT because jazz is elite music and you have to be well behaved in the crowd, but simply because a mature audience is listening with rapt attention to every detail and unnecessary ambient noise would drown out the details.  Shouting and whistling only spoils your own listening experience, apart from distracting the musicians.  It is ok in a heavy metal gig, esp Iron Maiden because if you've heard one, you can scream out the rest. Razz  But an IR show IS about the details.  I cannot believe JV is not aware of this so I can only assume he is shamelessly playing to the gallery and trying to score brownie points over IR.

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  Usha on Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:28 pm

Punjai undu nanjai undu   -

Sweetest Interludes.......
Dhandhan da na  udan varum instruments. love a lot......... and...

 especially... one portion... each and every time.. Punjai undu Nanjai undu...  idhu naada ilal kaada ..  the interludes
comes with SPB... sweet one....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BefkDBj5gSw

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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  app_engine on Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:42 pm

crimson king wrote: But an IR show IS about the details.
Absolutely!

And, I believe, rAsA expects his listeners to pay attention to the details and enjoy!

Right from 70's, rAsA had developed a "culture" in TN, of people "singing" interludes, paying attention to many details and trying to mimic them using their mouths Laughing

Take the case of another top-notch interlude, the first one of EdhO kanavugaL ninaivugaL manadhilE malarudhE, that bass guitar "twist" at 1:50 had been always paid rapt attention by me, "focussing" my ear to the poor radio tranmission those days to somehow hear that sound Smile

OTOH, the orchestra of Vijay TV - though they were much better than normal during the rAsA week - missed those very notes Shocked

How can they be so lazy?

Totally agree that SS4 is hopeless (as it was originally meant to be, being orchestrated by HCARRF gumbal showing off as TFMFs)...

BTW, this song should have been the first duet by rAsA for Vijayakanth Laughing
(Superb KJY / SPS number, pAdal varigaL by GA - got posted in the thambi thread )



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Re: Top ludes - I mean Mt.Everest level preludes / interludes / postludes - of IR

Post  kiru on Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:56 pm

@App - re: singing the interludes - I wonder whether we do not have a tradition of melody instruments .. veena is there .. violin is an import ..yaazh went out of use .. There were varieties of yaazh .. the yaazhs were tuned to a particular raagam. Coming back to this song.. this is one of my favorites. A long first word .. short phrases .. ending again in a long word.  If the tunes gets converted to an instrumental it would sound great. Early IR, I tend to see things as MSVish vs typical IR. This is typical IR. I guess, these are the kind of interludes Ravi would say it would be popular with the general audience. 
Again, what a song.. does something to your soul .. (Is that Shoba w/ Vijaykanth @ KrishnaRajaSagar Dam ?)

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