Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  jaiganesh on Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:24 am

ravinat wrote:I pushed some wrong buttons with my iPod by accident and this track of Raja (only the interlude) started playing repeatedly and I never realized that the track was being repeated. Only after about 30 minutes, I came out of this track and realized that the device was repeating the same track. This track runs for 1:09 minutes - try and hear this in repeat mode till your brain registers that you are hearing a different track. This interlude will transport you to another world, guaranteed.

https://soundcloud.com/ravinat14/a-minute-with-the-maestro

I called this as a minute with the maestro. Identify the track after any number of repeats. More than identifying the track, the joy of hearing it is important. Who does such music these days? The wrong push of buttons with the iPod revealed another dimension to Raja's music.
This Raaja is wicked.. He created such intricate musical conversations back then.. nowadays he plays it a lot subtly.. Keeps asking the 
musicians to hold on and stretch their notes a lot.. Such a change.. like a very chatty person in their adolescence transforming into a 
 quiet subtle person. Could have been that the 90s had lot of stories which were staged a lot amateurishly which mean he wanted to provide
more cues..

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  Usha on Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:46 pm

ravinat wrote:I pushed some wrong buttons with my iPod by accident and this track of Raja (only the interlude) started playing repeatedly and I never realized that the track was being repeated. Only after about 30 minutes, I came out of this track and realized that the device was repeating the same track. This track runs for 1:09 minutes - try and hear this in repeat mode till your brain registers that you are hearing a different track. This interlude will transport you to another world, guaranteed.

https://soundcloud.com/ravinat14/a-minute-with-the-maestro

I called this as a minute with the maestro. Identify the track after any number of repeats. More than identifying the track, the joy of hearing it is important. Who does such music these days? The wrong push of buttons with the iPod revealed another dimension to Raja's music.

indha Raja inimel kidaika matar...... vera syllabus ku poyachu....... adhai purindhu kolla inum 10 years venum......

indha paatu.. Unnai padadha naavum oru from Irattai Roja......... Raja's Kalyani....... RajaKalyani dhan.. enna oru Gambeeram.......

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  kiru on Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:43 am

jaiganesh wrote:
ravinat wrote:I pushed some wrong buttons with my iPod by accident and this track of Raja (only the interlude) started playing repeatedly and I never realized that the track was being repeated. Only after about 30 minutes, I came out of this track and realized that the device was repeating the same track. This track runs for 1:09 minutes - try and hear this in repeat mode till your brain registers that you are hearing a different track. This interlude will transport you to another world, guaranteed.

https://soundcloud.com/ravinat14/a-minute-with-the-maestro

I called this as a minute with the maestro. Identify the track after any number of repeats. More than identifying the track, the joy of hearing it is important. Who does such music these days? The wrong push of buttons with the iPod revealed another dimension to Raja's music.
This Raaja is wicked.. He created such intricate musical conversations back then.. nowadays he plays it a lot subtly.. Keeps asking the 
musicians to hold on and stretch their notes a lot.. Such a change.. like a very chatty person in their adolescence transforming into a 
 quiet subtle person. Could have been that the 90s had lot of stories which were staged a lot amateurishly which mean he wanted to provide
more cues..

Cool, he made the end like the beginning, so when you loop it you dont feel any transition, smoothly goes on and on .. Funny, if you ask him, he will say that is the basics of arohanam/avarohanam or some thing like effect .. and make us all feel silly ..

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  ravinat on Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:31 pm

kiru wrote:
jaiganesh wrote:
ravinat wrote:I pushed some wrong buttons with my iPod by accident and this track of Raja (only the interlude) started playing repeatedly and I never realized that the track was being repeated. Only after about 30 minutes, I came out of this track and realized that the device was repeating the same track. This track runs for 1:09 minutes - try and hear this in repeat mode till your brain registers that you are hearing a different track. This interlude will transport you to another world, guaranteed.

https://soundcloud.com/ravinat14/a-minute-with-the-maestro

I called this as a minute with the maestro. Identify the track after any number of repeats. More than identifying the track, the joy of hearing it is important. Who does such music these days? The wrong push of buttons with the iPod revealed another dimension to Raja's music.
This Raaja is wicked.. He created such intricate musical conversations back then.. nowadays he plays it a lot subtly.. Keeps asking the 
musicians to hold on and stretch their notes a lot.. Such a change.. like a very chatty person in their adolescence transforming into a 
 quiet subtle person. Could have been that the 90s had lot of stories which were staged a lot amateurishly which mean he wanted to provide
more cues..

Cool, he made the end like the beginning, so when you loop it you dont feel any transition, smoothly goes on and on .. Funny, if you ask him, he will say that is the basics of arohanam/avarohanam or some thing like effect .. and make us all feel silly ..

Kiru, nicely put - I wanted to call it the virtual interlude or the Apple interlude (Infinity loop Very Happy ). I stumbled on this by accident. I have heard so many of his interludes, but so far did not find something like this - or, maybe, I did not focus on the interludes to have a common start and finish to create this virtual aural experience.

If I find another interlude, I will start a separate thread called 'Virtual interludes of Raja'. Or else, I will leave it at that.

Jai, this song is from the movie Irratai Roja. Hearing stupid stories all the time, Raja may have got the spark to repeat the beginning and end of the interlude (hence Irattai) Very Happy . Nothing surprises me any more...

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  Mahen123 on Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:38 pm

Any thoughts/ experts' comments on the rythm pattern(s) in "Poongatru un per solla" from Vetri Vizha?

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  ravinat on Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:50 pm

Mahen123 wrote:Any thoughts/ experts' comments on the rythm pattern(s) in "Poongatru un per solla" from Vetri Vizha?
This song features polyrhythmic arrangement which has several time signatures supporting the main melody. There are a few other Raja songs that he has arranged this way. You will find the stage 16 and 15 of this article series talking about other such rhythm innovations.


http://geniusraja.blogspot.ca/2011/04/rajas-rhythm-innovation-stage-17.html

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  ravinat on Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:07 pm

Ilayaraja continuum music
______________________

While I was researching my next topic searching for another pattern, I again bumped on to this 'continuum interlude' where the end of the interlude perfectly matches the prelude. The interlude is from the obscure song 'Indha Ulagil Naan Vaazhdaalum' from Madhu (2005 Tamil). Primarily played with piano and violins, it gives you the same continuum feeling of the earlier song 'Unnai Paadatha Naavum' from Irattai Roja (Tamil 1996). 

https://soundcloud.com/ravinat14/90-seconds-of-ilayaraja-continuum

This time around, while I played this interlude several times to look for the 'continuum' pattern, my brain did not get fooled; nor did my iPod play it on a loop. After the Irratai Roja experience, I have consciously started looking for such interludes.

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  jaiganesh on Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:35 pm

ravinat wrote:Ilayaraja continuum music
______________________

While I was researching my next topic searching for another pattern, I again bumped on to this 'continuum interlude' where the end of the interlude perfectly matches the prelude. The interlude is from the obscure song 'Indha Ulagil Naan Vaazhdaalum' from Madhu (2005 Tamil). Primarily played with piano and violins, it gives you the same continuum feeling of the earlier song 'Unnai Paadatha Naavum' from Irattai Roja (Tamil 1996). 

https://soundcloud.com/ravinat14/90-seconds-of-ilayaraja-continuum

This time around, while I played this interlude several times to look for the 'continuum' pattern, my brain did not get fooled; nor did my iPod play it on a loop. After the Irratai Roja experience, I have consciously started looking for such interludes.
Thats one of my favourite songs from Madhu - an album I have and listen to often...
I like it even more so for the fact that it is so 'Ilaiyaraaja' in verses too..
இந்த உலகில் நான் இருந்தாலும் 
எனது உலகம் வேறு!
அதைக்கண்டுகொள்வதாரு?

How cleanly it fits a character who is poised to become a nun leaving the material world of 
achievements and ambitions? It was so remarkable for its lack of flurry in its interludes.
Sober serenade as opposed to passionate swirl of orchestra that we have come to expect in 
Ilaiyaraaja's songs.

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  ravinat on Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:22 am

Raja continuum series #3
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As my research for the next topic continues, I again bumped on to another continuum interlude, which is one of the ludes that blew me away when I heard it first, years ago. The harmony in this arrangement is quite staggering and when you hear it, your mind will take a while to absorb what the composer is trying to accomplish. It is almost like a game with musical harmony - go figure. Simply nobody writes such complex but pleasant harmony anymore. Even if you do not understand WCM, the melody will bewitch you. However, I did not view it the way I view it now. The beginning is the end in this too...

This track is the prelude and the interludes of the song 'Kathirum Kothi Pathirum kothi' from 'Man of the match' (1996 Malayalam). Done primarily with synthesizers and flute, the song provides a continuum feeling as the beginning and the end are almost the same. Looping through this music will land you in a trance...

https://soundcloud.com/ravinat14/raja-continuum-series-3

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  jaiganesh on Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:12 pm

wow.. 
I have always felt that kai veesi nadakkira kaaththe from nandalala also has that spinning never complete staircase feel to it. Contrast 
that with vanakkuyile kuyil tharum kaviye from priyanka - stop start stop start. this guy is amazing..

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  Usha on Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:50 am

Nice topic. Raja continuum series 


kadhal sagadhu from Mella pesungal.. always special to me........ and 


VAnam engae megam engae....... Nenjil adum poo ondru.......  Instruments pesum........ melae pogum.. tharaiyil irangum.. lovely one......

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  V_S on Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:59 pm

I happened to watch this video. Maestro's ace guitarist Mr. Sadanandam sir's interview. While the entire video is amazing, I was thrilled @4:19 when he played intha maan (karagattakaaran) opening guitar piece. All along I was thinking that it was two guitars playing in tandem with flute playing on top of it to produce a 3-way counterpoint. I am now more than amazed to hear that it was a single guitar playing two contrasting pieces (melody and chords, or two chords, or two melodies which ever you take it). What a profound thought and execution by Maestro noteworthy Please note that it was Maestro's idea totally (as Sada sir stresses). Sada sir also tells that it was initially tough to play the piece, but then he made it. Practice! Another point to note that Maestro does not compromise on the art.

_________________
Art is a lie that makes us realize the truth - Pablo Picasso

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  ravinat on Sun May 01, 2016 5:16 pm

Picture this imaginary situation : The violin players are not available and Sada has some other commitment. The tune is set and Raja has written his orchestration. He has to pull this song off within his call sheet. However, a mandolin player is available.


Raja's music without violins, without synthesizer - is that really possible? Yes, at times.

He assembles a small team - percussion, bass guitar, flute and mandolin and re-orchestrates the entire song. In both the interludes, there are counter melodies with flute too.

Hear the song - Chinna Kanna from Magudam (Tamil 1992). There are simply no violins. Not even lead guitar. There are only two flute passages. The entire song has the mandolin played, including the typical backing sections of the charanams. Very unusual of a Raja song.



Not sure if the bells (typically a triangle or our Indian Jalra) are played by the percussion player or another musician.

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  ravinat on Mon May 23, 2016 2:25 am

I am considering doing a separate topic called 'Orchestral magnum opus' selecting a few tracks of Raja and going through it second by second. One of the recent tracks that blows my socks off is Maatallo Cheppeleni  from Abbayitho Ammayi . It has so many beautiful layers that it requires very careful writing as it should not end up as dry detail. Deva Sangeetham from Guru is another such song. I consider, 'Vaanam Keezhe Vandalenna' to be another orchestral 'Orchestral magnum opus' from the 80s. There are others such as, 'Edaya Bagilu' or  'Mugilo Megamo', which I have already described in detail. I do not think this will go beyond 15 to 20 tracks. There are the usual ones such as Sundari KannaL oru Siedhi which I will bother to detail as others have done it. 

Thoughts?

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  panniapurathar on Tue May 24, 2016 6:45 pm

ravinat wrote:I am considering doing a separate topic called 'Orchestral magnum opus' selecting a few tracks of Raja and going through it second by second. One of the recent tracks that blows my socks off is Maatallo Cheppeleni  from Abbayitho Ammayi . It has so many beautiful layers that it requires very careful writing as it should not end up as dry detail. Deva Sangeetham from Guru is another such song. I consider, 'Vaanam Keezhe Vandalenna' to be another orchestral 'Orchestral magnum opus' from the 80s. There are others such as, 'Edaya Bagilu' or  'Mugilo Megamo', which I have already described in detail. I do not think this will go beyond 15 to 20 tracks. There are the usual ones such as Sundari KannaL oru Siedhi which I will bother to detail as others have done it. 

Thoughts?
Ravi Ayya!  As always thank you for your reseach into IR's music.  I have created a Ravinat recommends playlist in my ipod so I can listen and learn from your work!  
I would love the orchestral magnum opus series.  Do you think the end piece of Hey Ram's "Polladha Madhana Baanam" can find a place in OMO (Orchestral Magnum Opus) series?

Off-topic:
Ravi, if time permits can you explain Tharai Thappattai's Theme Music?  Is he harmonizing the Naadhaswarams being played?  To a layperson like me who loves IR and WCM it sounds like Indian folk muscial instruments are playing in a WCM format.  Am I deluded in thinking so?  I am looking for words to describe that 3:05 piece of beauty that I have on a loop for hours!
Many thanks again for all your work!

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  ravinat on Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:41 pm

<Self Plug in response to Navin's rant on the score of Naan Potta Savaal (1980) in FB>
<Navin>



This is really, really, crazy ,crazy music from the maestro..For the past two days this music is playing in loop in my mind as well as in my ipod..people who go gaga over the modernity of the today wannabe Music directors ...and people who say "OH Why do always hear illayaraja !!!'must hear this...This is why we hear Illayaraja..because of the comprehensiveness of almost all the genre brought together into one genre of Music ..that is illayaraja genre.. Genre is an opinion it’s not a fact, Genre is bullshit.. Genre is nothing.. Genre is illayaraja...

</Navin>



Navin, I totally get your frustration with genres and current crop of MDs. However, those last lines set me thinking as you are not the first person expressing in those lines. There was a time when I used to try categorizing Raja’s work into genres and failed miserably. One lesson that I learned from this experience was this: Never look for a genre in Raja’s output – you will be disappointed.



Let’s try and understand how these genres came about. This is more recent Western phenomenon. Different musicians in the West wanted to brand themselves and genres were a convenient vehicle. Country musicians wanted to brand themselves differently from Popstars and so did the Jazz musicians and the R&B artists. If you step back a little, this became very successful in the West as the common listener found this type of classification easy to express their liking of a musical type – that’s all there is to it.



The Indian musical scene is different where we were very rooted in our traditional music until the 1960s. Even in the 60s, some great work by Salilda, SJ, SD or MSV on Western music was more of an exception and not considered as any ‘genre’. Our classification of genres in Indian music has been very arbitrary and sometimes it is simply aping the West. While I am not too concerned with aping the West in terms of classification, I have a problem with the output also being like the West.



This is where Raja is different from all Indian composers. He has created styles that are very hard to replicate. While today’s boy composers find it easy to do a Western genre, they find it very hard to do any of Raja’s work. No exceptions to this. This is due to the fact that so many musical ideas go into Raja’s compositions, it is hard to internalize for most musicians. You can hear popular press confusing a nice sounding strings arrangement being passed as ‘reminds you of Raja’s 80s strings’. Now, that is the way popular perception works. When Rahman was popular in the 90s and he did some decent work, there were composers who tried to copy him and the popular press said, ‘sounds like Rahman’. You can see the difference between these two approaches – one that reminds you and another that sounds like. ‘Reminds you’ is due to the fact that it is hard to replicate. Most of the popular press called the music of NEPV as a Raja genre as there was no way to associate this with anything that the West classifies – it simply defies common sense. Raja continued this with Megha, which nobody took notice as the movie was a dud.



At the end of the day, genres of popular music is a consensus by a civilization on a musical type. The good news is that Indians are slowly waking up to this type of consensus. Consensus is always a clumsy process and is negotiated over a long period of time. The recent success of ‘Sairat’ made everyone sit up and listen to Marathi music as though it was Tamil. The young composer duo have used LA symphony orchestra to score for a film set in a rural setting. As the composers are fans of Raja, the people have been able to make the connection and now it is clearly one Raja genre – rural setting with Indian folk base with WCM overtones to it.  How else to call it? When somebody makes a mess of fusion, (which is abundant), we say that they have to take a few lessons from Raja how to handle multiple musical systems. The confusion is by no means settled.



As we progress down this path, more and more Raja genres will be identified by the general listeners and they will get their names after the dust settles.  Someday, when a good composer comes along and harmonizes ICM the way Raja did, another genre will be born. Similarly, when a composer composes a pure Carnatic/Hindustani based song with Western classical ideas, another Raja genre will be born. When a new composer tries to marry polyrhythms with polyphony and the music turns out to be successful, another Raja genre will be born. When popular Carnatic music is played with nice interludes and becomes popular, another Raja genre will be born



In our lifetime, there will be many more genres that will show up and will be confused, misquoted as well as analyzed. However, when the dust settles, there will be many unique genres this man will be associated. Neither Raja nor we will be alive to relish that classification. Do we really care?

</Self Plug>



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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  ravinat on Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:56 am

A new series of analysis of Raja's orchestration:

http://geniusraja.blogspot.ca/2016/07/introducing-polycare.html

I have considered a number of Raja's BGMs and interludes from 201x and the examples I will provide in the next one year, will always start in the reverse chronological order first 201x, then 200x followed by 199x and so on..

A number of readers did ask for background scores to be included in the analysis topics. I reached out to Navin, who was more than happy to permit me to use parts of his clips.

As part of this analysis in the last 8 months or so, I scanned a number of Raja's work and many of his compositions that did not fit the criteria of my research fell into the 'obscure harmony' series that I posted here.

Hope everybody enjoys this series of posts (about 24 or 25 posts in all) with about 80 example clips from background scores and interludes from all the 4 decades (I could not find anything from the 70s that met the criteria of this analysis).

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  Usha on Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:37 am

Thanks for the New Topic Ravinat..........

Ezhuthil....... indha madhirii vishayathai puriya vaipadhu enbadbu. romba periya vishayam.. romba azhagaga simple aga puriya vaikireergal.

Thanks for ur Dedication.............

Simple and Neat Clarification about the topic.......

Now, ‘Poly’phony + ‘Ca’ll and ‘Re’sponse becomes ‘PolyCaRe’!

It is hard enough to do polyphony. How do you do PolyCaRe? Very hard, unless you are a musical genius where everything comes easy.

Let’s elaborate a little more about what PolyCaRe involves.
A call and response involves at least two instruments playing the same or different melodies
A counter melody involves two melodies being played simultaneously
So, in a PolyCaRe arrangement, there must be at least three melodies in the whole arrangement
To be more specific, there must be a background melody that continues throughout the PolyCaRe arrangement and the Call and Response melodies will be foreground melodies that come and go
At any time throughout a PolyCaRe arrangement, there are always two simultaneous melodies. This qualifies the whole arrangement as polyphonic
In other words, in a PolyCaRe arrangement, there are multiple serial counter melodies that together can constitute a PolyCaRe arrangement – the series of counter melodies have an inter-relationship among themselves, by way of Call and Response
There must be at least 4 members to the series of counter melodies for a PolyCaRe arrangement. Two CaRe arrangements make it four foreground melodies and the background melody is normally a constant link to the series of four counter melodies.

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  ravinat on Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:40 pm

I was listening to 'Oli Tharum Suriyanum' from Vaalmiki (Tamil 2009). In the first interlude, Raja shows how one can do fugue with a modern synthesizer (new composers must take these lessons).



1. Between 1:57 and 2:08, there is a simple melody that is played with a synthesizer (the melody is repeated twice)
2. Observe between 2:09 and 2:22 the same melody is played at a lower pitch with a synthesizer (requirement of a fugue). While that is going on, Raja uses a short strokes string arrangement that is running counter to the melody.

Perfect fugue. 

If somebody thinks that such things are techniques of the baroque period with violins and harps, please think again...

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  ravinat on Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:19 am

Kutrame Dhandanai title score

https://soundcloud.com/navin-mozart/illayaraja-kuttrame-thanadanai-soundtrack-title-score

When I heard the title score of Kutrame Dhandanai (KD – Tamil 2016), my reaction was that this belongs to the top title scores of Raja in this decade and it stands at par with Nandalala (2010) and Azgar Samiyin Kudirai (2011).  My initial reaction was that this is surreal and gives you a sense of loneliness and inward looking  nature of the film. Also, the cloudiness of the plot where dark clouds come and go is also a key message. I heard this before I watched the film and somehow, it sounded to me like I was hearing Moricone and Goldsmith together.


The synthesizers are cheap and so are the composers who just make a living out of just that. However, synthesizers mean totally different things when it comes to Raja. When I heard Manjolum Raatri from Oru Yatra Mozhi and tried to catalog the instruments he was using, it turned out to be the same that every new age boy composer was using. However, what Raja delivers vs. the boy composers was a stunning difference of night and day. Raja’s use of synthesizers and plug-ins (for the wind) in this score is also about placing, layering and harmony. It will take decades for any of the mature composers to catch up, let alone the newbies.
Subsequently, I heard the entire score of KD and noted that Raja uses the title motif in several places with different shades throughout the film.


Harmony passage #1,2, 3 : 0 – 34 seconds : There are three harmony passages within the first 34 seconds and you need to follow the piano that plays slightly different tones (same tune). The way the harmony is arranged is stunning. The high pitched violin (or could be a synthesized one) has its part (say ‘S’) but does not play for the entire tune. Observe this all the three times.  The piano plays the main theme and perhaps takes on the Tenor. You need to observe the Bass part here. Raja uses the synth plug in for the wind and observe how he compliments the high pitch violins? When the violin plays the wind is subdued and towards the end of every passage, the wind takes over. Simple harmony, but great use of the top and the bottom part to compliment the piano. Every kid composer writes harmony – show me one composer who can do this from India. Even the simplest of western classical music tools becomes spectacular in the hands of the master!


Now, I leave it to reviewers who would try to relate the ebbs and tides as two different emotions that the protagonist goes through.


Harmony passage 4,5, and 6 : 35 to 50 seconds : These harmonies are written a bit differently with #4 and #5 being smaller ones and the #6 being longer and different from #4 and #5. Notice that this almost appears like 2-part harmony, except, Raja uses the violins, cellos and double bases to fill the three parts (A,T and B) and no longer uses the high pitched violin or the wind plug-in that he used in the #1,#2 and #3. By this time, you have already heard four unique variations of the title theme - #1,#3,#4 and #6. Most composers can get to this level of variations in their entire film score.


Harmony passages 6,7,8,9 : 51 to 1:24 seconds: These 4 harmonies use the same title tune but this time, the piano is no longer used. It is now a surreal dialog between the violins and the organ. Harmony #4 has a slightly different tone but #6, #7 and #8 are repeats. I still call these as harmonies as you can clearly hear the other parts played by the double bass and the cellos.


Harmony passage 10: 1:24 to 1:42 seconds. This stands up to the best in the world. This is where Raja reminded me of Goldsmith and Moricone. It is a fantastic arrangement of violins and the organ. Turns out that this is a Tamil film. This can fit any international movie.


Harmony passage 11 and 12 : 1:42 to 2:00 seconds. The passage is arranged a bit differently from the rest of the harmonies. It is a CaRe type arrangement, with the call made by the violins and the response by a combination of violins, organ and finally the wind blowing at the end of the response. It is almost like a summary of the entire theme, though the tune has nothing to do with the other passages.


Now, I made a claim that this score reminds me of Morricone and Goldsmith.


I strongly recommend the score called ‘A heart beats in space’ (Mission To Mars ) by Morricone and you will see some similarity to this score.





Some parts remind me of the Jerry Goldsmith score of ‘The Vanishing’




Just this title score alone is enough to establish Raja’s grasp of WCM. Another high point in Raja's career, my view.

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  Raaga_Suresh on Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:45 am

Lovely post Ravi. I was also thrilled with the title score. Infact the overall score is also very good and in keeping with the mood of the film. For some reason Baradwaj Rangan and some others make it sound like Raja's score was inappropriate. I saw the movie and I feel the score fits perfectly.

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  Usha on Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:47 pm

[quote="ravinat"]Kutrame Dhandanai title score

https://soundcloud.com/navin-mozart/illayaraja-kuttrame-thanadanai-soundtrack-title-score




Harmony passage #1,2, 3 : 0 – 34 seconds : There are three harmony passages within the first 34 seconds and you need to follow the piano that plays slightly different tones (same tune). The way the harmony is arranged is stunning. The high pitched violin (or could be a synthesized one) has its part (say ‘S’) but does not play for the entire tune. Observe this all the three times.  The piano plays the main theme and perhaps takes on the Tenor. You need to observe the Bass part here. Raja uses the synth plug in for the wind and observe how he compliments the high pitch violins? When the violin plays the wind is subdued and towards the end of every passage, the wind takes over. Simple harmony, but great use of the top and the bottom part to compliment the piano. Every kid composer writes harmony – show me one composer who can do this from India. Even the simplest of western classical music tools becomes spectacular in the hands of the master!


Now, I leave it to reviewers who would try to relate the ebbs and tides as two different emotions that the protagonist goes through.


Harmony passage 4,5, and 6 : 35 to 50 seconds : These harmonies are written a bit differently with #4 and #5 being smaller ones and the #6 being longer and different from #4 and #5. Notice that this almost appears like 2-part harmony, except, Raja uses the violins, cellos and double bases to fill the three parts (A,T and B) and no longer uses the high pitched violin or the wind plug-in that he used in the #1,#2 and #3. By this time, you have already heard four unique variations of the title theme - #1,#3,#4 and #6. Most composers can get to this level of variations in their entire film score.


Harmony passages 6,7,8,9 : 51 to 1:24 seconds: These 4 harmonies use the same title tune but this time, the piano is no longer used. It is now a surreal dialog between the violins and the organ. Harmony #4 has a slightly different tone but #6, #7 and #8 are repeats. I still call these as harmonies as you can clearly hear the other parts played by the double bass and the cellos.


Harmony passage 10: 1:24 to 1:42 seconds. This stands up to the best in the world. This is where Raja reminded me of Goldsmith and Moricone. It is a fantastic arrangement of violins and the organ. Turns out that this is a Tamil film. This can fit any international movie.


Harmony passage 11 and 12 : 1:42 to 2:00 seconds. The passage is arranged a bit differently from the rest of the harmonies. It is a CaRe type arrangement, with the call made by the violins and the response by a combination of violins, organ and finally the wind blowing at the end of the response. It is almost like a summary of the entire theme, though the tune has nothing to do with the other passages.


Now, I made a claim that this score reminds me of Morricone and Goldsmith.

ravinat,
Indha writings and the lessons. idharkagave niraiya time kaekanam. You are a Very Good Teacher. We are Gifted.........

Harmony passage 1,2,3.. idhilayae struck agiten........

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  ravinat on Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:54 pm

What blows me away is that , after writing a few thousand harmonies ,  Raja finds another way to write a harmony in his 40th year. This is innovation to all musical boneheads who rave about every boy composer.

If I was an honest composer in Indian films ,  I will do one of two things :

1. Quit and go back to music school to figure out what I missed in the classes.

2. Quit and somehow join Raja as an assistant to observe and enrich myself before composing again.

Honest composers, sigh!

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  Raaga_Suresh on Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:40 am

My writeup on how the title score of Kutrame Thandanai effortlessly captures the spirit of the movie: https://onlyraja.wordpress.com/2016/10/07/kutrame-thandanai-the-brilliant-title-score/ 

There are spoilers in there. Don't read if you plan to see the movie.

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Re: Unusual observations on Raja's orchestration

Post  Sakalakala Vallavar on Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:34 pm

how many of you here have the 56gb full folder? in that Malayalam Songs, Pin Nilavu movie, it has 3 songs. the most popular one in that film is "Nisha manohari devasundari" but in that name, there is a different song. It starts in something like ”கரையானோ மிழி நீரில்...”

I watched Pin Nilavu movie fully in youtube. there is no such a song.
Google searching the songs mp3 of the film is also not pointing that song.
In the Ilaiyaraaja_--_Discography_[Thamizh_Tracks]_[1976-2013] excel sheet also its not there.

So, from which movie is that song from? Needless to say, its a very nice pathos song with sweet tune and nice orch!

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