Nadigar Thilagam Sivaji Ganesan: Discussion.

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Re: Nadigar Thilagam Sivaji Ganesan: Discussion.

Post  Drunkenmunk on Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:27 am

Thanks V_S ji and app ji Smile

@V_S: cinema, rasanai nu Tamil cinema la suthittu thirinja indha pakkam vandhu salaam pOdAma irukka mudiyAdhu. Non-appreciation ku 2 possibilities dhaan. Not having seen a lot of his works or lazy appreciation. Of course, he acted in a lot of terrible films and films like Pattakathi Bairavan, Mridanga Chakravarthy elaam konja rombave kashtam okkAndhu pAkka and his hamming is a fact there and did not help (directors and NT and his coterie to mostly blame). Of course he was not perfect. Nobody was/is/will be. But what are doing ignoring his pre-75 oeuvre and pouring scorn on his late 70s and 80s films? And of course, there are folks who tread carefully even on his famed portrayals on the reasons of overacting. adhukkellAm P_R sonnadhu dhAn. Can any other artiste imagine to hyper-dramatize their portrayals as effectively as Sivaji can is a question a lot of rasikAs need to ask themselves. And of course, a discerning eye can spot incredibly subtle moments even in the bombastic hyper-dramatizations like a Thiruvilayadal or a Veerapandiya Kattabomman. Of course, by discerning, is our rasanai > other rasanais nu oru kELvi varum, arrogance pathiyum pEchu varum. Namakku theriyin badhil Razz But not really too. Numerous people in TN have been sucked into his performances and have appreciated him in his peak. To blanket dismiss all that as a generation gap and their tastes were different and we have evolved with times is the real arrogance imho. As usual, idha naama namakkulla dhaan sollikka pOrOm.

I will continue with a few more of my NT appreciation posts over the weekend Smile

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Re: Nadigar Thilagam Sivaji Ganesan: Discussion.

Post  Drunkenmunk on Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:15 am

Quick post.

Veerapandiya Kattabomman. A film that fetched NT an International Award at Cairo. The first time any Indian actor was lauded at an international arena. This is a snap scene by NT standards. He has a screen presence of roughly 1 minute. But just observe him. A. Karunanidhi comes in and warns Sivaji about the impending danger w.r.t Ettappan's betrayal and Bannerman coming with an army.

AK: Ettappan uLavu koorinAn...

NT is having his eyes closed. But he opens it and glances sideways from his right eyes with just a lift of the eyebrow to convey it to us exactly as "Ettappan" is uttered. Shot zooms in. He is praying to the Lord when this unexpected news reaches him. He is coming out of his worship with a "Muruga" and goes on contemplatively philosophizing about the yins and the yangs of life. He contemplates till he speaks about Ettappan after which a disappointed "pch" escapes him at Ettappan's betrayal (the way he "pch"s is immensely likable). The man is naturally disappointed. But he prepares himself for what is to happen and braving the betrayal, he screams instructions to A. Karunanidhi and inspires everyone around. The camera zooms out as though afraid of his wrath. Such is the screen presence. The screams of "VetrivEl VeeravEl" even rouses me in my chair as he inspires his Maravar koottam (Kallar, Maravar and Agamudaiyaar of the Mukkulam, precisely coming in Thevar Magan as he, as Periya Thevar, talks a couple of hundred years on about what happened a century and a half later from Kattabomman's time as this "KaattumiraaNdi paya koottam took the vElkambs and aruvaas and went VetrivEl VeeravEl as Subas Chandra Bose called". Essentially the same actor. But what a range from Kattabomman to Thevar!) What is more is, he is able to convey a meditative calm which transforms itself to a calm disappointment which leads to disappointed anger which morphs itself to the necessary righteous rage. All inside 1 minute noteworthy Kattabomman was of Andhra descent and might have spoken a TirunelvEli Tamil smattered with Telugu for all we know. But this is an actor's interpretation of a braveheart. And what an interpretation it is!


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Re: Nadigar Thilagam Sivaji Ganesan: Discussion.

Post  Drunkenmunk on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:01 am

No activity for nearly a month Smile One scene has been playing repeatedly in the mind a few watchals done, I wish to share a little bit on it. It has been spoken about by Mohanram and P_R (@dagalti) also commented on that in my blogpost. I just wish to share a few more of what I genuinely feel is an iconic scene. It is the famed 'Thiruvilayadal' scene with Nakeerar.

A little bit of background. The film showcases it the way we know. Sivan comes as a poet, challenges Nakeerar's assumption of mistake in the poem, argues, tips over, rages, burns Nakeerar, retrieves him from the பொற்றாமரை குளம், blesses him for being true to his passion to Tamil, takes leave and Dharumi enjoys the spoils. However, there is another interpretation of this from Paranjothi's Thiruvilayadar PurANam, often discussed by Cho in his Hindu Maha Samudram. Nakeerar objected to the poem. The topic is dicey (women's hair's fragrance being natural or artificial at the end of the day is subjective and unless one undertakes a ludicrous study of women across the globe before and after wearing fragrant stuff, one can't be sure even today). So here, going by the வீரியம் of the poetry, it was fair of the King to reward Dharumi, assuming he wrote it. What mattered was it was a wonderful poem with some beautiful உவமை and the thought behind that, answering the King's question from the point of the view of the poet, should have sufficed. Again this is subjective and people can disagree. But Nakeerar objecting to the பொருள் was more out of ego (pride in being the best and the head of the தமிழ் திருச்சபை) is an import from Paranjothi and an interesting point of view. Arguable but entirely possible. The Lord willed to play with the pride of the poet to also tip him to the extreme. I shall come to this later. So in this backdrop, the film does not happen to underline the ego of the poet prominently (would be silly to show him scheming in his mind out of pride and I'm glad they left it open ended). It is more a true debate that ends with the Lord testing him and seeing and blessing his passion to the language on the surface. The deeper import could be that the poet's pride was burnt. A poet whose pride did not submit even upon knowing that the Supreme one was before him ought to be burnt is the logic. That this was disguised as passion toward the language was the greatest trick Paranjothi ever played. Like the poem in this story, this also ends up subjectively open ended.

So how does our acting genius portray this?

A blistering entry throwing Dharumi to the court and asking with brute irreverence about the guy who said the poem was wrong. Takes the stage, goes to the center having got the King's point that he needs to respect the person and asks if that guy is a notch above the King (because the King bats for Nakeerar when the other poet, Sivaji, questions Nakeerar's judgement. Important to note that the King is on Nakeerar's side and not exactly neutral). Nakeerar takes stage and says it was he who rejected the poem because it was wrong (he only says பழுதுள்ள பாட்டு and not he thought it was a பழுதுள்ள பாட்டு. To Nakeerar, this aint subjective. He claims the poem is objectively wrong). Our man, summa eLLi nagayAdarar Nakeerara. King is shocked even in his response and shows great deference while stating Nakeerar's name. But Sivan, in my eyes, is pricking at Nakeerar's pride. The next statement is a direct attack at Nakeerar's ஆணவம். This is the only spot where the scene comes close to directly mentioning the pride of the head poet. That it could be swept under the carpet of another poet's hurt is the masterstroke. But it is worth noting that the other poet is the Lord himself and NT is outstanding with his indignation.

Nakeerar is composed. He questions about the source of the poem, the very obvious question for the எதிர் கட்சி, for what ought to be Dharumi's poem is seeing blistering indignation from elsewhere. Our poet states the truth. Nakeerar harps on questioning the reason for sending Dharumi. For a moment, Nagesh's wit about "பரிசு குடுத்தா வாங்கிட்டு வரேன், வேற எதாவது குடுத்தா?" seems to be the surmise in Nakeerar's eyes, for our poet, a human in their eyes, would only look like a coward. Our poet dismisses it. Nakeerar harps on it again stating that a poet doesn't need to lie instead of touching the subject that lead this argument, the poem. The super ego is flared Smile "எல்லாம் எமக்குத் தெரியும்!" roars our poet. Indeed, the only person allowed such a super ego can be the Lord himself. This sequence in my view is an extremely intricate study of an ego clash. As Nakeerar follows it up with questioning our poet's ஆளுமை, watch NT. He is shaking. Shaking with rage. Boy what presence there! So Nakeerar asks his right to question the poem even if our man may know everything. Our man sneers in sarcasm that Keeran (no respect there either Smile ) is challenging him. Even as the King is trying to calm them down (the same guy who till now was nearly revering Nakeerar tries to calm both down, when the anger is from our side only Laughing the King is evidently taken aback at the level of சீற்றம் and the poor guy tries to be the diplomat). NT is still shaking, more prominently in fact from a longer shot! Our man asks the King to take a back seat. From now on, it's Nakeerar vs Our poet. Yay!

As our man asks where the mistake was, watch Nakeerar say "சொல்லில் குற்றம் இல்லை, இருந்தாலும் அது மன்னிக்க படலாம்." Really buddy?lol! (for a poet to make a mistake in the spelling/grammar is unthinkable and he says that can be pardoned) and as if everything depended on that, he says gravely, "பொருளில் தான் குற்றம் இருக்கிறது." Asked to render the poem, our poet does it so with bombast. Asked the meaning, our poet follows up with equal bombast and a sense of righteous indignation in his tone. Nakeerar asks its import. The shot zooms close to NT. NT for a moment seems to forget the verbal war and seems to indulge and enjoy the poetry and its import and we can see his face relax for a wee bit! He goes back to his older indignant tone as he says "...எழுதி இருக்கிறேன்", as though coming back to reality again. Micro moments of excellence.

What follows ups the ante. Our poet concludes by stating his interpretation with "இது தான் எமது தீர்ப்பு." He does doesn't say "இது தான் தீர்ப்பு" Smile Nakeerar disagrees. Our man turns the other way in fury. Watch the heave from NT in a 'take' just as Nakeerar refutes our man's theory. The argument continues, albeit in a generic manner with our poet asking if high class women suffer the fate Nakeerar ascribes to. Nakeerar responds in the affirmative.  The argument is generic and as our man asks if Saraswati who speaks through Nakeerar's tongue also suffers the fate he ascribes to, Nakeerar says why Saraswati, "... அன்னை மலைமகள், உமையவள்! அவளுக்கும் இதே கதி தான்!" Watch the incredible nuance which Mohan Ram and P_R point to. NT just moves his right foot a little backward in an extremely subtle 'take' exactly at மலைமகள் as though taken aback at "his wife" being brought into the act. There, the supposedly overacting Sivaji stands back and laughs at the world that calls him thus. That is the tipping point. Our man rages and as Nakeerar swears on his Tamil poetry, our poet bursts into Sivan. First tipping point: his wife was brought in. Next tipping point: Tamil itself was brought in and sworn upon. We see that being followed by Nakeerar still holding his ground despite knowing who was on the other side. Popular version: he was fighting by what he thought was right. Underdog and more fascinating possibility: the great poet was clinging on to his pride even after knowing it was the Lord on the other end. What chance did Dharumi stand? (possible that Nakeerar was miffed that Dharumi was willing to sell his poetry. But even there, is it not the pride of a poet at display? Also possibly, could it not have been the misplaced pride of a poet which sees a poem more superior (coming from the Lord that is) than what he could possibly compose? Just a possibility. And that pride stands even as it realizes it is Lord on the other hand).

So as the Lord pours scorn and asks if he, the poet that makes ends meet by cutting into other's intelligence, is worthy of poking into the Lord's poem. What follows is the ultimate tipping point. "...சங்கரனார்க்கேது குலம்? ...சங்கை அறிந்துண்டு வாழ்வோம், அரனே உன் போல் இரந்துண்டு வாழ்வதில்லை." The poet after bringing in the wife and swearing on Tamil, pricks back at the super ego Smile and gets back for his ego being pricked. KABOOM! He is burnt and as things turn on their heads and the King is petrified, the Lord disappears, reappears, cools everyone down and goes back ending this stupendous sequence. Dharumi is given his prize. Bottomline was Lord burnt the excessive pride in Nakeerar. Yes, pride in a creator, poet, artiste is justified, but not in front of a superior ஆளுமை where humility is required. That gets under the garb of what we see on screen and is given an outstanding color by NT with screen presence, only he fossible bombast and the many nuances. Woah!



PS: This did appear nearly a decade earlier in 'Naan Petra Selvam', written by APN, as a stage drama where Nakeerar and Sivan are both done by Sivaji (film la single role dhaan but the makers winking their eyes here on the audience in an intelligent manner). Coming in 1956, Sivaji was more interested in Nakeerar and that showed. Nearly a decade later, both APN and Sivaji raised the stakes and what awesomeness we get on screen!

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Re: Nadigar Thilagam Sivaji Ganesan: Discussion.

Post  app_engine on Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:56 pm

Excellent post, DM!

Quite an interesting take on the fire buring away arrogance and thus refining the poet Smile

applause

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Re: Nadigar Thilagam Sivaji Ganesan: Discussion.

Post  V_S on Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:48 pm

DM,
Wow! That was an awesome take with excellent narration and insights applause thumbsup Keep it up! I could sense the whole scene with your writing.

_________________
Art is a lie that makes us realize the truth - Pablo Picasso

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Re: Nadigar Thilagam Sivaji Ganesan: Discussion.

Post  Usha on Fri May 02, 2014 4:27 pm

Raja Raja Chozhan........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUsp0cQlYhI


Sivajikana  padam. enna oru nadipu.. Raaja gambeeram... Raja nadai....  arpudham.......
Character kaga oru Fire........ padam muzhudhum.. siridhum  kuraiyamal... adhu Sivaji...........

Sivaji and Lakshmi Scene.   kadhalukaga oru sandai.. appavidam.. migavum piditha scene idhu.

Climax scene.. only for Sivaji... ovovaridamum.. thani thaiyaga pesum azhagu..  Senthamizhai..  bhavathudan.. yetra irakathudan......... veru yarukum varadhu ivarai pola.............

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Re: Nadigar Thilagam Sivaji Ganesan: Discussion.

Post  app_engine on Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:56 pm

தற்செயலாகப் பார்க்க நேர்ந்த ஒரு கட்டுரை

Look at this funny conversation between Aroor Das & NT:


‘தர்மராஜா’ படத்தின் படப்பிடிப்பில் ஒருநாள் காலை வழக்கம்போல சிவாஜியின் ஒப்பனை அறைக்குள் நுழைந்தேன். பரஸ்பரத் தோத்திரப் பரிமாற்றம் முடிந்ததும் அண்ணன் என்னைக் கேட்டார்:–

சிவாஜி:– என்னப்பா எடுத்த வரைக்கும் படம் பாத்தியா? எப்படி வந்திருக்கு?

நான்:– அண்ணே! கோவிச்சிக்காதிங்க. இந்தப்படத்துல நீங்க நடிக்கணுமா?

(என்றதும் எதிர்பாராத என்னுடைய இந்தக் கேள்வியைக் கேட்டதும் சிவாஜி மேக்கப் போட்டுக்கொள்வதை நிறுத்திவிட்டு)

சிவாஜி:– (சற்று கடுப்புடன்) என்ன சொல்றே?

நான்:– இல்லே – தெரியாமத்தான் கேக்குறேன். நீங்க இந்தப்படத்துல நடிக்கணுமா?

(என்று நான் சற்று அழுத்தமாகக் கேட்டதும், ‘கோவிச்சுக்காதிங்க’ என்ற நான் கூறியுங்கூட கோபத்துடன் என்னை முறைத்துப்பார்த்து)

சிவாஜி:– அப்போ (தன் வலது கை விரல்களைக் குவித்து வாயில் வைத்து) சோத்துக்கு என்னை என்ன பண்ணச் சொல்றே?

நான்:– (சிரித்தபடி) இந்தப்படத்துல நடிச்சித்தான் நீங்க சோறு திங்கணுமா?

சிவாஜி:– அப்படின்னா நீ ஏன் எழுதுறே?

நான்:– நீங்க சொன்னதுனால எழுதுறேன்.

சிவாஜி:– இல்லேன்னா எழுதமாட்டியா?

நான்:– சத்தியமா எழுதமாட்டேன்.

சிவாஜி:– (அதிகக் கோபத்துடன்) நீ தேறமாட்டே! நீ பொழைக்கத் தெரியாதவன். இதோபார். இந்தப் படத்துக்கு எழுதித்தான் நீ பேரு வாங்கப்போறியா? இல்லே இதுல நடிச்சித்தான் எனக்குப் புகழ் வரப் போவுதா? சொன்ன கதைக்கு எழுதவேண்டியது உன் வேலை. கொடுத்த வேஷத்துல நடிக்கவேண்டியது என் வேலை. என்னையும் உன்னையும் வச்சு சக்ஸஸ்புலா ஒரு படம் பண்ண வேண்டியது அவனுங்க வேலை. இந்தப்படம் ஓடாது, அந்தப்படம் ஓடாதுன்னு ஒதுக்குனா நம்மளை நம்பி இருக்கிற பொண்டாட்டிப்புள்ளைங்களை எப்படிக் காப்பாத்துறது? எப்படி வாழ்றது?

ஒரு புரொடியூஸரையோ, டைரக்டரையோ நாமளா போய் சான்ஸ் கேக்குறோமா? நம்மளை வச்சுப் பொழைக்குறதுக்கு அவனுங்க வர்றாங்க. அவங்களை வச்சுப் பொழைக்கவேண்டியது நம்ம கடமை! இப்போ, இந்தப்படத்துல கூட எனக்குப் பொருந்தாத ஒரு கேரக்டரை சின்னஅண்ணாமலை கொடுத்திருக்காரு. சொன்னேன். கேக்கலே. என்னை என்ன பண்ணச் சொல்றே? நண்பராச்சேன்னு நடிச்சிக் கொடுக்குறேன்.

ஆரூரான்! சொல்றேன்னு தப்பா நினைக்காதே.

நான்:– இல்லேண்ணே. சொல்லுங்க.

சிவாஜி:– உங்கிட்டே நிறைய நல்ல சரக்கு இருக்கு. ஆனா அதை விக்கிற சாமர்த்தியம் உனக்கு இல்லே. ஒவ்வொருத்தன் ஒண்ணுமே இல்லாம வாயால வெறும் வெத்து வேட்டு வெடிச்சி, பந்தா பண்ணி இந்த சினிமாவுல சம்பாதிக்கிறானுங்க. நீ என்னன்னா, எதுக்கெடுத்தாலும் கோவிச்சிக்குறே. கடுப்படிக்கிறே! குறை சொல்றே! ஏற்கனவே பல தடவை உனக்குச் சொல்லியிருக்கேன். எல்லாத்தையும் விட்டுட்டு, உன் வேலையை மட்டும் நீ பாரு. புரிஞ்சிதா?

நான்:– எனக்குப் புரியாம இல்லேண்ணே. நல்லா புரியுது. ஆனாலும் மனசு கேக்கமாட்டேங்குதே! என்ன பண்றது?

சிவாஜி:– கடிவாளத்தைப்போட்டு அடக்கு.

rotfl on NT's comments about producers!

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