Nadigar Thilagam Sivaji Ganesan: Discussion.

Wonderful, V_S. It's snippets like this that we need to show those who are not aware of NT's greatness. And IR's subtleness, he knows when not to attempt to compensate. In the hands of lesser actor, he may need to add more emotions with his music, but with NT, he kept it low, only when necessary. Thanks V_S. I completely forgot the movie, watched it two decades ago.

Neethi - enakku bEdhi. One of the worshtu NT movies...

I know it's a remake of Dushman, the story of a man punished for killing another by being given the burden of the other man's family.

That story sort of justifies the making of theHindi movie, with Rajesh Khanna in the lead. apdiyE vutturukkaNum. It didnt need NT.

Absolutely zero scope for NT - if I say ogling at a bathing J madam is the most worth while thing he does in the movie, imagine the depths.

The story has possibilities, and the worst part of it is that the Hindi version explored those possibilities better than this NT Movie.

Balaji - who is so adored as we can see in the other forum of NT fans, for giving NT a "stylish" makeover - remakes this with all the sensibility of some KS Ravikumar ancestor. (Yes he is not the director but I blame him).

Add to that a thoroughly emaciated Chandrababu reduced to singing praises for "mukkulathin devan", songs breaking the fourth wall by asking us to see Indira Gandhi making speeches in Bengal*(why Bengal? ), and kamarajar pakkathula nikkum Sivaji as stills of the two scenarios adorn the screen, Manorama ogling at Sivaji - this is the first NT movie I am abandoning in the middle. And I am a veteran who has sat through Anbulla Appa, Sandhippu and Pilot Premnath.

Still, I take the one bit of education I got from the movie - namely that there were "Benz Model Lorries" during those days, and that mEdam JJ resembled one of those. I kid you not, that's how NT vocalizes his ogling for mEdam. I didnt know a) Benz manufactured lorries b) and the ones that they did resembled our puratchi selvi.

Thanks for that piece of education, CV Rajendran, or K Vijayan or D Yoganand, or whichever genius behind this abomination inflicted on NT.

* - the lyrics go
vangALaththil kootathil pEsum Indira gandhi pAru
kamarajar pakkathil nikkum sivAji pEru

LOL @ Benz

I liked NT here, totally naughty, and very, very negative. Maappilaikku and nAlai muthal kudikkka mAtten, lovely numbers. Favourite among my weekend late night whiskey movies.

I finished watching Neethipathi. Ganggai Amaran channeling MSV in Thanthai nAn engge, good job. Movie.... , Next on list - Kaltoon. Yes, we need a break from his good movies, I suppose.

Crossposting here from Malayalam movies thread

Oru YathraMozhi

Pratap Pothen's (not so) ambitious venture bringing together the explosive combination of Mohanlal and Nadigar Thilagam was just sort of ok in my first viewing. Seeing it again, the flaws are obvious
Nadigar Thilagam has a wimpy role, which is fine, but every scene he has with the Mallu heavy weights, you can see the respect in their eyes and body language, but the scenes have been written with heavily loaded in their favour!
This is a run-of-the-mill story of a Building Contractor from TN, visiting Kerala for a contract, getting a girl pregnant, and failing ot honour hsi commitment to her under pressure from parents, and later when visiting after 30 years, finding that his son is a vagabond waiting to find his father and kill him.
No prizes for guessing who is the father and the son.

Mohanlal is irreverent, as only he can be, in front of Nadigar Thilagam, and certainly has the author's backing in his scenes with NT. Still, NT being NT, runs equal with him, and shows the young man he can match him even with that disadvantage - whether it be in the care-free uncoordinated but charismatic dancing movements stakes(a strong area of Lal) or neutralising the cocky youngster with his charisma and charm(Lal doesn't know NT is his father until the climax).

Nedumudi Venu, ill at ease initially gets one author backed scene with NT and aces it comfortably. Playing the unrequited lover of NT's victim, he takes care of her post NT's exit after the pregnancy and sees Lal as his own son, himself remaining unmarried. The way he confronts NT after knowing the truth with controlled fury, shows the level of talent in Mallu filmdom.

Thilagan, who apparently sought Prathap to create a role for him just so that he could act in a scene with his childhood hero NT, also gets a powerful moment in his scene with NT, and aces that scene thanks to the director's writing of the scene being loaded against NT showing his talents.


However, there is a pay-off to all this as both Thilagan and Mohanlal get to mouth dialogues(perfectly apt for the movie's siutuation) which could express their real-life placing w.r.t NT

1) Lal, in the climax, after finding NT is his long-lost enemy of a father, hides it as he has come to respect NT in his recent interaction and has lost his hate. So, as NT tries to come clean to him that he is indeed his father, he mouths what I'd call a adi poli dialogue from a NT fan's POV

He says "periyaarE, gningaLe pOl oru dhEhathiNde maganAya bhagyam enikkillA"

This to me is a sister-dialogue to NT's "ungaLa thAnE nambaNum" to Kamal.

Because, Lal obviously isnt from the NT school, and cockily does his own thing without reverence to NT throughout this movie(Not in terms of movie situation but overall body language w.r.t a fellow actor). But in the climax he has to admit that while he may be a king in his own domain(style of acting), he is still not bigger than this man, and that this man is much more, and that he is obviously not a heir to this man. The respect and love as he says that is so proud a moment for a NT fan. Lal is a God of acting in his own way - and even he has to bow before the God of Gods, acknowledging it in his irreverent way


The second pay-off is much more easier to process. Thilagan, fully in control of the frame as always, still manages to show his reverence to NT in his scene with NT.

The situation goes like Thilagan is the character who knows NT's identitiy and the only one capable of identifying NT to Lal as his father - which will enable Lal ato achieve his burning rage of killing his father. He had lost his leg thanks to NT in the past

So, Thilagan arrives all too spookily and as he meets NT, you wait with suspense for his reaction(remember, this character was created just so that Thilagan could do this scene as per his wish). It is very clera that the screenplay was cleverly woven to make Thilagan bow in reverence to NT in this scene as the character recalls how the chopping off his leg made him see the world with new eyes, and made a family fo rhim and small pleasures that his cocky self wouldnt have found otherwise. So, he says something like
"Without you, I wouldnt have been able to see and do everything I did in my life"
While being a statement that fits very much the screenplay, the twinkle in Thilagan's eyes clearly show he means that more personally!

Wow! What an endorsement! And saying this, the grand old man of Malayalam cinema actually falls at NT's feet. I bet Prathap Pothen didnt write that moment.

I actually have seen Mallu brothers making fun of NT as theatric while Thilagan and Lal are the natural actors.

This is as grand a statement as any that these two could make to make it clear who was the real emperor of acting.

For that alone, I would recommend this movie for NT fans.

(Ofcourse, there is this other now-old man in the background, More about him later)

Talking about yatramozhi, I observed this yesterday:

Wow! What an endorsement! And saying this, the grand old man of Malayalam cinema actually falls at NT's feet. I bet Prathap Pothen didnt write that moment.

I actually have seen Mallu brothers making fun of NT as theatric while Thilagan and Lal are the natural actors.

This is as grand a statement as any that these two could make to make it clear who was the real emperor of acting.

So today I got first-hand proof of the impact this movie had on a mallu sister with the attitude I pointed above :

Some Random Mallu Sister with NT-mocking attitude once upon a time wrote:
I have always been wary of watching Sivaji Ganesan on screen. My introduction to the thespian came through watching him on Oliyum Oliyum, the Tamil version of Chitrahaar.
A corpulent man, jowls quivering with emotion and eyes red with anger, whose dialogue delivery was more a declamation than speech was not very enthralling. When Sivaji Ganesan thundered, yenna da? even the heavens trembled. And of course, there was the slight Malayali snobbishness – our actors were better than their actors

And then she saw Oru Yatramozhi...

And then, some time in 1997, I got to watch a Malayalam film called Oru Yaathramozhi. I was blown away by the pathos the Nadigar Thilakam brought to his role as a man who meets his only son as an adult, develops a close relationship with him; not knowing that the son is on the lookout to kill the father who abandoned his mother and him.

It was a revelation. I began to understand just why the veteran actor commanded the respect that he did.

So, Pratap Pothen perhaps knew what he was doing - opening the eyes of our mallu brothers and sisters.
And as I observed, the screenplay seems to have been solely to facilitate Lalettan and Thilakan paying their respects and exposing their reverence for NT, and thus open the eyes of random mallu brothers and sisters like above to his position as the uncrowned king of Indian acting.

idhai ezhudhaRappOvE mei silirikkudhu. indha singam Kerala-la irundhA epdi talent-ai use paNNi iruppAnga! TamizhgamE - kadamayil thavaRi vittAi!

Grouch - in times like this, I long to talk all this to Murali Srinivas(and joe). ingE varuvArA? Atleast link koduththu padikka sollunga....this random mallu sister is just what I found on net but the moment I saw Thilagan bowing in reverence to NT on screen, I knew what impact it would have had on Mallu brothers and sisters in general

Super post plum! Thank you.

Superb plum. Now, about the other now-old man??

Plum ,what a post on Yatramozhi ..in tears !

joe - andha post ezhudhinappovE, I had only you and Murali Srinivas in mind. So glad you finally saw it and it had the impact on you that I wanted to have. MS also said he has read it.
So glad today!

During our christmas trip to india this time , few casually asked my 7 years old son "who is your favourite actor?" ..expecting Vijay , Ajith , Surya ..But my son was firm "Shivaji Ganesan" LOL ..They stunned and looked at me and say "புள்ளையையும் கெடுத்துட்டியா? " ..But i had to tell the truth ..I didn't impose anything .. That is just one movie made the trick ..when Karnan was released in Singapore last year .. He wanted to come with me ,but I told him that It is old movie ..3 hours and full of old songs which you don't know ..sure you will be bored .. He asked me what is the story .. One thing he is very much interested in Rama , krishna cartoons and He likes Krishna more than Jesus ..lol ..I told him it is Mahabaratha ..oh..then he was adamant to join me ..then i brought him .. first 30 mins i was restless afraid that he might asked "Appa ..veetukku polama?" anytime ,but he was keen watching ,, every 10 mins I used ask "How is it? are you ok? " He said "I am OK appa" .. after intervel ..i myself mingled with movie ..during the climax ..when Karnan fell down and dying ..I just look at him .. Thaarai thaaraiya kaneer vadiyuthu
When movie ends he said "I didn't know that Krishna is such a bad guy" lol ..while returning home he truely said "Now I know why you always telling sivaji ganesan ..sivaji ganesan" ..After that , he watched karnan atleast 5 times in youtube ,even once 2 days before ..

Joe - - you have given a masterclass on how to rear children

empoNNukku ippO Ilayaraja-na yArunnu theriyin. Nee dhaane en ponvasantham-nu hi-pithcla pAduvA. She was so adamnt she wants to come to NEPV. Just for the songs. oru mAdhiri kashtapattu dabaichuttu pOnOm.

Ofcourse, we made her do VPK in fancy-dress so she knows NT also already but not as NT but as Veerapandiya Kattabomman.

On Yathramozhi, it is a rare occasion that I watch a IR movie, and not focus on him. As you can see from my post, this was that rare occasion.

innoru scenela, NT is talking to Soman and his relative(Ranjitha's family) asking for Ranjitha's hand on behalf of Lal. Soman and co. get steamed up and talk about "endhu soNai etc" ("evLo thimir irundhA..")
And then NT majestically says "soNaina enna thimiru dhAnE?" and gives a solid reply. apdiyE mayirkoocheRiyal.

increased my curio to watch this movie... pls let me know if such good movies are there with subtitles... most of the other malayaalappadams i watched were either dubbed or silent movies...

Bravo, Joe, bravo. I am expecting similar incident with my son, he's already exposed to NT/IR/aNNan, but currently more interested in chewing my phone. Expecting more from Plum and you in this thread. I hope Murali-sir would participate, and do double duty. Maybe he can cleverly disguise himself here with username Srinivas Murali, oh wait....

Admin wrote:Driving to work today, I was thinking about intial plan by MS to remake The Godfather with NT and Kamal. And my imagination went wild, imagine this:

the Don: NT
reluctant heir Michael: Kamal
hot-headed Sonny: Rajini
naive Freddo: Prabhu.

ada-ada-ada, how it would have turned out. Wasted opportunity...

Yeah, nammALUkku Malayalam mattum vandhirundhA, 80s-la oru 100 nalla padam suttu thaLLi iruppAnga...

Also, obviously, even otherwise, I feel Mallu film-makers might have had roles for him - I am not sure if they thought they could approach him, given the kind of people surrounding him and the trap he was caught into doing stupid movies approved by his brother only.

So, some videos to go with my posts.
First, Yathramozhi:
Rewrote the same matter in twitter and linked the videos today:

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acZtbuhIZ10 … Thilagan exhibiting his respect for (Nadigar )Thilagam - in-movie and breaking 4th wall, adi pOLi! @joe_milton
2. bet Prathap Pothen didnt write Thilagan's falling-in-NT's-feet gesture. #oruyathramozhi
3. as strong a statement as Thilagan can make to indicate who HIS acting God is ...
4. ..jeevithathi orO nalla nimishamum kadannu vannpO ...gnAn Orththu, oru pAdu nanniyOdu"...1/n
5. "..jeevithatil orikallEngilum kANanumennu...ee kaalE thottu thozhaNumennu" *Falls at an unsuspecting NT's feet* 2/n
6. .look at his expressions; while the lines suit the movie, this is Thilakan making a stmt w.r.t his admiration for NT! n/n
7.Trivia: Thilagan wasn't in the movie at all. He badgered Prathap to write a role for him so he could appear in a scene with NT..1/2
8. so .. Now think of the lines "jeevitathil orikallengilum kaananumennu" and their real-life significance

And this companion piece to #ungaLathAnEnambaNum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acZtbuhIZ10#t=4m40s …
#NT-Lalettan #gningaLEpOluLLOrAlindE maganAgamuLLA bhagyamenikillA

again another #4thWallBreak #adipoli_for_NTFans

Starting with this post there seems to be a lot of discussion on mudhal mariyAdhai at the hub NT thread...

Not really following all the posts (you know why) but Muthal Mariyathai is not a film I like to analyse - it's jujube film for NT as far as performance is concerned (angga pEsiyAchu). I'd love to see his lower-profile films to take centre stage there...or here for that matter (though we are IR centric here).

youth appreciating NT

Drunkenmonk...

One more

Drunkenmunk...

^Thanks appji for these shares.

appji had asked me to post here. I will first begin with an introduction to my Sivaji rasanai (because folks may genuinely wonder how I like Sivaji). Like I did mention in another thread on IR, I was a kid in the 90s and not even born in the early 80s and hence had no chance of a first hand experience of rasichifying Nadigar Thilagam's many classics. My dad though, born in the late 50s, was pretty much bang in NT's era. He often mentions an interesting anecdote on how when he was a teenager in 1975, after completing PUC, his hometown Dindigul re-released Karnan. Like now, it drew packed houses even then (of course that was a generation which would even marvel at an NT poster for hours and so did not need digitization as an incentive to watch his films). He was watching the film again scrounging money from paati one weekday (paduchaachu, college admit vara varaikkum veetla vetti). He spotted his periappa, who was the starting seed for NT fandom in our household, that day who had bunked work (own hotel, so avurE Raja, avurE Mandhiri) and had come to see the film on the big screen. That perippa thaatha made his kids NT fans and his nephews in our family (my dad, his brothers) got along watching NT films. They were the definitions of rasigargaL who would be lost in an in-depth analysis and digging deep, sub-textual rasanai. However, they could spot quality from a country mile away. Hence appreciating NT was not a tough job for most of them, unlike city bred youth today (my sorry breed) who have more of a pretense than rasanai but refuse to appreciate a towering talent like NT. So dad, spotting his uncle that day, moved near him and they started chatting and watching the film. Into the second half, chatting stopped and as the final reels came on, both got engrossed in the film and by Ullathil Nalla Ullam, dad felt some moisture in the towel on his uncle's lap. Turning aside, he spotted his uncle shedding a bucket full of tears  


From such a family do I hail. Weekends on Jaya or Raj showing Thiruvilayadal; and dad will sit down and watch. Like any curious kid, I would watch too. Navarathris would have channels showing Saraswati Sabatham, Thiruvarutchelvar and the likes and I must confess, alongside the several Amar Chitra Katha books that dad bought in my childhood, these films stoked an interest to know the stories than watch and appreciate NT. It was this way that I started watching NT films.


But like any kid till the late 80s-early 90s would, I was into Rajni. Even today, a part of me is a Rajni rasigan whose over the top heroism, charisma and panache (in the serious roles also early on) appealed to me. Off late, his later films are a guilty pleasure and I feel comparing him to an MGR w.r.t image tells only half the tale for Rajni is a way better actor and second only to Kamal from his generation imho. Even down to the 2000s, I was into Rajni more than Kamal. Towards the late 2000s, as I came out of teenage, a bunch of friends were an inspiration to dig deeper into world cinema. Onnuthayum vuttu vekkala. From Coppola to Bergman on to Kubrick down to Ray and on to Kurosawa, nalla uzhundru peraNdOm. Coming back to Kamal films (Aboorva Sagodharargal till Mumbai Xpress) around 3 yrs back, I stood mildly amazed at what he could do within mainstream Tamil cinema without compromising on his vision. Rajni's films moved 5 steps back and Kamal was the writer/creator/actor. Of course, Rajni the actor/performer still enterprises.


It was here that revisiting the ubiquitous Sivaji classics, as they were regularly played back home, proved eye-opening. The trips to such films as a child held back interest in the films and watching it for NT now was something else. Summa Robert De Niro va thooki saapadra talent idhu nu purunjudhu. A quiet respect also crept in at what stunning nuance, depth and understanding he could bring to every character.

Like the posts appji shared mention, I often get irritated on twitter with folks my age (not all of course but most) for whom 'subtlety' and underplay appeal more than Sivaji's hyperdramatizations, which they call overacting. Like Gounder says in Indian, "rasana ketta mummy daddies". If one is not able to spot the layers and subtlety in NT's many portrayals, who is the loser here? And how else, other than ignorance, does their refusal to appreciate NT for want of subtlety come across? A Julius Ceasar from Sorgam is summarily dismissed as overplay, without realizing that the final wriggling-like-a-worm is because Caesar was originally an epileptic patient. The actor is there to service the character and its emotions that are written first than our narrow definitions of what acting is. I've had to endure words like "Nagesh is a better actor than Sivaji", "Nagesh underplays better and hence earns my appreciation better", "can you show me a set of videos where Sivaji has underplayed the navarasas?" (express reason for that first post) "kashtam", "Mohanlal's underplay in Iruvar >>>> Sivaji's so called underplay in Thevar Magan" and "I have been scarred for life watching Thillana Mohanambal due to my mother who likes it". All this made me bring my appreciation for Sivaji on blogs and why dismissing Sivaji for want of underplay is lazy appreciation tasting only a smidgen of the artiste selectively on the surface. After the first blog, a couple of them raised white flags and yet asked if I could agree Nagesh was equal to Sivaji. Upon refusing, it was back to square one and I have been invited to a cup of coffee with a few to discuss why they feel Nagesh is better than Sivaji  idhu aavuradhilla.

Coming to the point, I was giving the history of the incident and geography of the accident to derive some mileage to post something on Sivaji first up and take it further in the coming weeks.

I shall throw a vignette of my appreciation towards NT and leave it to bigger rasikAs like Groucho and Plum to take over.

It is a song running for 242 seconds called Paartha Nyaabagam Illayo (our own internalization of Frank Sinatra's Sway With Me). NT gets a screen space of roughly 50 seconds in this song, about 1/5th the running time. Yet, what stands out for me in this song is NT. The sheer range he brings in from a disinterested audience to one converted to being head and heels in love (lust) over the performer at first sight is truly stunning.

The song starts with NT lighting a cigar and puffing into space. He is an audience awaiting a performance and he is relaxing (absolutely no emotion). His tuxedo, cigar and the high end club he is in tells us that he is rather affluent. Dancers begin their dance. He awaits. Just his screen presence there conveys that he is waiting. The performer enters (an urbane Sowcar) and begins singing. NT just tilts his head up (to have a look at the performer. Just a tilt conveys to us that he wants to see who it is). Is she singing to him, kindling an old story? We might never know and considering his affluence and her "vampish" character, it's likely. But that's one possibility. She could just be singing to the audience and the guy could just be taking it straight from her to him. So as she sings, he begins to settle into the ambiance, smokes and is soaking the atmosphere and gauging her. At around 1:10, he isn't looking at her, but from him looking at the table and puffing smoke into the air, it is evident he is chewing her lines and ruminating on them, a light titillation on his face being evident. As she proceeds into her song, at Neela Nadhi karai Oram and Naan Paadi Vandhen Oru Raagam, he is impressed. He is sucked into her performance now. His eyes don't waver or blink. His hands take the cigar to his mouth and the wine to his lips. But no, even his eyebrows are on her. She has him in her zone with her performance now. At around 2 minutes as she finishes her stanza, he smiles. A kid-like smile, biting his finger. This is a kid that has seen a toy it is smitten by and wants it. What a terrific transition from wanting to see to wanting. With just the eyes and body language. Restrained all the while. At 2:16, she moves to her right. On cue, NT ever so lightly tilts to his left. His bloody eyes follow her! How the bloody hell did he bring it on screen with such a perfect stitch! Masterly direction by Dada Mirasi and terrific editing by N.M. Shankar? Maybe. Or just a moment made possible by NT? Take you guess. But to be able to see where the shot is cut for another actor and to take over from where the other person left off at 'take' with this amount of subtlety takes excellence of the first order. At 3:00, as she sings Un manadhai Kel adhu sollum, he is rubbing his fingers on his lips, his eyes not moving from her. He is infatuated. His animal instincts have been kindled here. He tastes his cigar and licks his finger awaiting the next shot from her. He raises a toast from him to her. From being sucked into her till now, in about 7 shots on him at over 2 minutes of the song in close ups and pan ins for about 30 seconds in all on him, he hasn't moved his eye from the stage (her). Mini masterpiece! Finally, he smokes the cigar and is clear that he wants her.



As much as I like a Rajni or a Mohanlal or a Nagesh, they can't smoke a cigar with a fraction of the style NT does (not even Rajni), convey the range of emotions by just moving his hands (a lesson on how to use hands for actors), eyes and face with the subtlety NT brings. Sorry guys, you gotta move over. In Tamil cinema, and this can be arguably stretched to Indian cinema, within the mainstream, depth in acting will mean NT. Not that other achievers are bad. Everyone has their space in the pantheon. But in terms of acting, he will remain a notch above the rest. Untouched, in a grand way. Purunjavanukku cut out. PuriyAdhavanukku get out.

Wow! ungaLukkuLLa ippadi oru NT rasigaraa! That too considering your age and the way you admired and narrated NT's acting nuances   After reading your write-up only I watched this song so closely. Keep it up buddy  and please continue to share more such nuances. Very interesting!

kalakkaReenga, Drunkenmunk!
 
 

BTW, I've sent a message to Murali Srinivas sir (who is a bigtime NTF and a moderator at the hub, frequently writing about NT) about your lovely post on 'pArththa gnAbakam illaiyO'!

You've just whetted our appetite